nixluva wrote:All I'm saying is we knew things would be shaky at the start and that was with Jose and Bargs playing. I'm not changing my view of the team just cuz they've struggled as we expected but minus key contributions from our best PG and one of our more talented bigs too. Plus our opening schedule was brutal. So none of this really puts me off. If this team never improves then I could see conceding the point. We haven't yet seen this team healthy and with real chemistry yet. We had to start from further back than a lot of teams already knowing how they want to play coming into the season. We didn't have that luxury but it's not how you start but how you finish.
I actually recall you posting that we couldnt assume they would struggle early on, and lets be honest....your view has changed, you it, i know it, and thats ok...losing games will do that.
How brutal was the opening schedule? Nobody in the conference has played more home games than us, 7 at home, 4 on the road and one road game were against a winless team. If anything the schedule was overall favorable.
Keep moving your goal post, even Phil has acknowledged he wants to change this roster starting December 15.
Ya might not see Jose or Bargnani on the team.
IronWillGiroud wrote:easily,reasoning:
you got calderon, in the prime of his career basically because 33 is the new 28 for point guards that can dish the rock and play with their heads plus drop treys
you got melo, eager to prove he can zen himself,
jr if he's still here is this a contract year? zen will put him under control,
bargs contract year---nixluva says this guy is bigger this year and more cut than he remembers him, the triangle will give him a role he can handle for the first time in his life and he will thrive because of it,
cole aldrich/saldal? beats FLU TYSON FUGAZI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
plus:
ZEN SPIRITUAL BASKETBALL BRAND (TM) --- PHILJAX HAS FREE REIGN AND THE HEARTS, EYEBALLS AND EARS OF HIS FLOCK
DEREK FISHER --- LITTLE JAX --->>> ALL WINNERS IN PLACE
PHILJAX---
1. first he made jordan into a champ
2. kobe into a champ
3....MELO INTO A CHAMP?
You must be kidding
I don't see your rationale at all
really 50 ?
A team that hardly wins at home/MSG
50 wins ?
Cannot believe or fanthom what I'm hearing now, this is beyond optimism
plus even if knicks best players & entire squad learn triangle-offense
how can a team win 50 that doesn't play defense Or is anything but good at it ?
BRIGGS wrote:I think this might be a 50 win team as well IF they stay healthy.Again Im looking at
C-Dalembart
F Bargs
F Melo
G Smith
G Calderon
C Cole A or Jason Smith
PF Amare or Jason Smith
F Shumpert
G THJ
G Pablo or Larkin(and we could look elsewhere)
then you're likely looking at
Early
Ellington
Thats 14 they have to make a determination on Tyler--what the Knicks might need etc--but the outline above has a nice combination of vets--this actually would be one of the older teams in the league--so you have the experience. You have 4 high quality 3 pt shooters. You have post game in Amare and Bargs
you have more rim protection playing 2 6-11 guys all game. You have athleticism and energy defense with Dalemabrt Shumpert larkin JR Smith you have an elite level scorer in Amare. This reminds me a bit of the Dallas Mavericks--how they have constructed themselves over the last several years. They did win a championship and theyve been a high caliber team that competes in the playoffs. No one has to carry a load here---say we get one more vet big say a 3/4 type or straight 4 it would give us the extra depth since Amare and Smith are ???health-wise. We have a good system being put in. So yes I think we have a good team--I do NOT want to trade Bargs or JR Smith right now. If we do any move it should be smallish--we dont need to be overly clever right now--lets see what we have.
This post topic is pipedreaming
cause of 1 win vs Denver Nuggets "? ? ?
pinch me quickly please.
The present NBA is kinda watered down now, yes NY will make playoffs OR at least 6-8th spots
But this team doesn't even have a legit durable level-2 PG
a non elite PG
Which Team wins ??
which PG isn't a vital part team's success on both sides of ball
offensive end and defensive end
This is a humorous post
BRIGGS wrote:I think this might be a 50 win team as well IF they stay healthy.Again Im looking at
C-Dalembart
F Bargs
F Melo
G Smith
G Calderon
C Cole A or Jason Smith
PF Amare or Jason Smith
F Shumpert
G THJ
G Pablo or Larkin(and we could look elsewhere)
then you're likely looking at
Early
Ellington
Thats 14 they have to make a determination on Tyler--what the Knicks might need etc--but the outline above has a nice combination of vets--this actually would be one of the older teams in the league--so you have the experience. You have 4 high quality 3 pt shooters. You have post game in Amare and Bargs
you have more rim protection playing 2 6-11 guys all game. You have athleticism and energy defense with Dalemabrt Shumpert larkin JR Smith you have an elite level scorer in Amare. This reminds me a bit of the Dallas Mavericks--how they have constructed themselves over the last several years. They did win a championship and theyve been a high caliber team that competes in the playoffs. No one has to carry a load here---say we get one more vet big say a 3/4 type or straight 4 it would give us the extra depth since Amare and Smith are ???health-wise. We have a good system being put in. So yes I think we have a good team--I do NOT want to trade Bargs or JR Smith right now. If we do any move it should be smallish--we dont need to be overly clever right now--lets see what we have.
This post topic is pipedreaming
cause of 1 win vs Denver Nuggets "? ? ?
pinch me quickly please.
The present NBA is kinda watered down now, yes NY will make playoffs OR at least 6-8th spots
But this team doesn't even have a legit durable level-2 PG
a non elite PG
Which Team wins ??
which PG isn't a vital part team's success on both sides of ball
offensive end and defensive end
This is a humorous post
knickscity wrote:nixluva wrote:All I'm saying is we knew things would be shaky at the start and that was with Jose and Bargs playing. I'm not changing my view of the team just cuz they've struggled as we expected but minus key contributions from our best PG and one of our more talented bigs too. Plus our opening schedule was brutal. So none of this really puts me off. If this team never improves then I could see conceding the point. We haven't yet seen this team healthy and with real chemistry yet. We had to start from further back than a lot of teams already knowing how they want to play coming into the season. We didn't have that luxury but it's not how you start but how you finish.
I actually recall you posting that we couldnt assume they would struggle early on, and lets be honest....your view has changed, you it, i know it, and thats ok...losing games will do that.How brutal was the opening schedule? Nobody in the conference has played more home games than us, 7 at home, 4 on the road and one road game were against a winless team. If anything the schedule was overall favorable.
Keep moving your goal post, even Phil has acknowledged he wants to change this roster starting December 15.
Ya might not see Jose or Bargnani on the team.
Yeah if you go back early in the thread
Nix specifically said we couldn't factor a 3-13 start
Last year because of injuries out the gate
We have injuries this yr[as if other teams don't see Indy] and now Nix is trying
To keep a steady hand with the tweezers in the game
Of Operation but he's electrocuting the hell out
Of the injured patient because he didn't personally
Factor that injuries are a part of the game
See what I did there?
Tried to inform Nix at the beginning of the season that projections that did not take into account age and injuries would lead to very inflated expectations seeing how this roster would still be mediocre at best even when fully healthy.
No matter, mid-December will be upon us swiftly and some kind of switcheroonie action is bound to happen.
This is an old tie. Lee-season I thiught. I think we are playing better. Prefer that to last seasons inconsistency.
70 games lets. Still possible. Calderone needs to get back though. He's an upgrade for sure. Also. While I LOVE Jason smith. If bargs is even slightly better and more consistent we can get darn close.
knickscity wrote:nixluva wrote:All I'm saying is we knew things would be shaky at the start and that was with Jose and Bargs playing. I'm not changing my view of the team just cuz they've struggled as we expected but minus key contributions from our best PG and one of our more talented bigs too. Plus our opening schedule was brutal. So none of this really puts me off. If this team never improves then I could see conceding the point. We haven't yet seen this team healthy and with real chemistry yet. We had to start from further back than a lot of teams already knowing how they want to play coming into the season. We didn't have that luxury but it's not how you start but how you finish.
I actually recall you posting that we couldnt assume they would struggle early on, and lets be honest....your view has changed, you it, i know it, and thats ok...losing games will do that.How brutal was the opening schedule? Nobody in the conference has played more home games than us, 7 at home, 4 on the road and one road game were against a winless team. If anything the schedule was overall favorable.
Keep moving your goal post, even Phil has acknowledged he wants to change this roster starting December 15.
Ya might not see Jose or Bargnani on the team.
Yeah cuz making a statement that we can't just assume struggle is the same as saying it's a lock that they won't struggle. Yeah i'm pretty sure that Jose being out for the entire start of the season wasn't part of my saying we couldn't assume the team would "struggle" like this early on. Also not struggling could simply be .500 so don't try and make it sound like I was saying the team would come out without any issues trying to adjust to the new system. Why the hell would I insinuate that when all evidence would suggest that the team would have some adjustment issues early on? You guys are really too much.
You guys love to exaggerate what others have said to make your points. You constantly accuse others of saying things that they haven't said or just taking things out of context or being so literal that all perspective is dropped just to try and make someone sound irrational. Nice try but there's just too much proof that these claims aren't true. It's easy to take one statement and use that against someone in a forum. You guys just sit back and wait for others to make a statement you can take and run with as if that's the entire depth of their take on the team. You're like the Republicans using Obama's statements out of context just to have a negative sound bite Ad.
I've never seen so many Knick fans that take delight in the team struggling and beating their chests about how right they are. You guys aren't posting about actually areas of improvement. You constantly downplay any impact that our starting PG returning would make as if he's a bum and would make no difference to how the team performs. Yes we know this isn't the final product we'll have down the line but that doesn't mean we should hate on the team and not have any rational thoughts on how the team could improve this year. How about not being so shortsighted and looking at how the team could improve as the season moves along. We have young players that are being developed and vets that are making the adjustment to the new system. Lets see how that plays out over more than just 10 games or so.
I wish I had a dime for every time an overly optimistic Knicks' fan said "I had no idea one of our old players would be injured."
Bonn1997 wrote:I wish I had a dime for every time an overly optimistic Knicks' fan said "I had no idea one of our old players would be injured."
Lets be fair--did you believe coming into the season Bargs and Calderon wouldve played 0 minutes through 11 games? Even a slight rotational mistake--perhaps not starting JR Smith at SG mightve been a differential that has had material effect. This couldve been a good team if it hit right but I think coaching/gameplan/rotations/injuries have been hurtful.
BRIGGS wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:I wish I had a dime for every time an overly optimistic Knicks' fan said "I had no idea one of our old players would be injured."
Lets be fair--did you believe coming into the season Bargs and Calderon wouldve played 0 minutes through 11 games? Even a slight rotational mistake--perhaps not starting JR Smith at SG mightve been a differential that has had material effect. This couldve been a good team if it hit right but I think coaching/gameplan/rotations/injuries have been hurtful.
Bargs we all know is injury prone and disappointing so yes im not surprised he missed the early part of the season. However I agree Calderon being out hurts. Im not a big Calderon fan besides his 3 point shooting.
BRIGGS wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:I wish I had a dime for every time an overly optimistic Knicks' fan said "I had no idea one of our old players would be injured."
Lets be fair--did you believe coming into the season Bargs and Calderon wouldve played 0 minutes through 11 games? Even a slight rotational mistake--perhaps not starting JR Smith at SG mightve been a differential that has had material effect. This couldve been a good team if it hit right but I think coaching/gameplan/rotations/injuries have been hurtful.
What's the combined winning % of these players in their careers
Doesn't every team have to contend with injury
Or are we looking at our team as the only one with them
BRIGGS wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:I wish I had a dime for every time an overly optimistic Knicks' fan said "I had no idea one of our old players would be injured."
Lets be fair--did you believe coming into the season Bargs and Calderon wouldve played 0 minutes through 11 games? Even a slight rotational mistake--perhaps not starting JR Smith at SG mightve been a differential that has had material effect. This couldve been a good team if it hit right but I think coaching/gameplan/rotations/injuries have been hurtful.
I'm actually glad Bargs hasn't played 1 minute. He is and has always has been a minus sum player. That's a fact.
Hold on I have to go vomit blood now that I was reminded we traded multiple picks for the guy.
BRIGGS wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:I wish I had a dime for every time an overly optimistic Knicks' fan said "I had no idea one of our old players would be injured."
Lets be fair--did you believe coming into the season Bargs and Calderon wouldve played 0 minutes through 11 games? Even a slight rotational mistake--perhaps not starting JR Smith at SG mightve been a differential that has had material effect. This couldve been a good team if it hit right but I think coaching/gameplan/rotations/injuries have been hurtful.
Bargs being out is a gift.
Given their age and history, I'd expect Melo and Jose to miss about 15 and 25% of the games, meaning at any given point there's probably a 1 in 3 or almost 1/2 chance one of them will be out. If it wasn't one them, it would be Amare and Shumpert or some other combination anyway.
The issue is that we really had no reason to expect that there would be these injuries coming out of camp. Sure at some point in the season, but this was not to be expected. In either event it's really not the most important point to get stuck on. It still remains true that what is most important is how this team develops and finishes. Teams can go into slumps at any point during a season. If it comes at the start it doesn't mean that is the end of the story.
We don't know how Calderon and Bargs would have functioned together in this system, but they are very familiar with each other and Jose knows how to setup Bargs. The best years Bargs has played in this league came when he was paired with Jose. It's still up in the air and we won't know for many more games what both players impact will be on this team in this system. Indications are positive since both of them actually looked good in the limited time they had working in this system. Based on their strengths it's a system they should do well in.
The guys that are healthy and playing have been making progress even if it hasn't shown in the W/L column yet. They're getting better and more comfortable. The chemistry is building and that's a good thing. Stumbling out of the gate doesn't mean it's the final word on the full potential of a team. Fish is also someone who needed time to get a feel for his team and with the injuries that kind of made it harder. We haven't come close to seeing the best this team has to offer and this is why I have a problem with all the super negative posts and calls for tanking etc. It assumes this team can't and won't play better.
Bonn1997 wrote:BRIGGS wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:I wish I had a dime for every time an overly optimistic Knicks' fan said "I had no idea one of our old players would be injured."
Lets be fair--did you believe coming into the season Bargs and Calderon wouldve played 0 minutes through 11 games? Even a slight rotational mistake--perhaps not starting JR Smith at SG mightve been a differential that has had material effect. This couldve been a good team if it hit right but I think coaching/gameplan/rotations/injuries have been hurtful.
Bargs being out is a gift.
Given their age and history, I'd expect Melo and Jose to miss about 15 and 25% of the games, meaning at any given point there's probably a 1 in 3 or almost 1/2 chance one of them will be out. If it wasn't one them, it would be Amare and Shumpert or some other combination anyway.
Amar'e is on a 10gm restoration program
Therefore he was due to miss 8gms minimum not factoring back-to-backs
Then again Phil said the team was hoping for Amar'e
To dole out 4 8min rotations/gm which would
Place him at 32min per/gm and had we saddle up on him
Out the gate at those expectations he wouldn't be capable of bucking for 8sec
I know the math doesn't fit here but I gotta
Keep going strong can't let ma boi Dagger down wit ma metaphors lolno!
nixluva wrote:The issue is that we really had no reason to expect that there would be these injuries coming out of camp. Sure at some point in the season, but this was not to be expected. In either event it's really not the most important point to get stuck on. It still remains true that what is most important is how this team develops and finishes. Teams can go into slumps at any point during a season. If it comes at the start it doesn't mean that is the end of the story.We don't know how Calderon and Bargs would have functioned together in this system, but they are very familiar with each other and Jose knows how to setup Bargs. The best years Bargs has played in this league came when he was paired with Jose. It's still up in the air and we won't know for many more games what both players impact will be on this team in this system. Indications are positive since both of them actually looked good in the limited time they had working in this system. Based on their strengths it's a system they should do well in.
The guys that are healthy and playing have been making progress even if it hasn't shown in the W/L column yet. They're getting better and more comfortable. The chemistry is building and that's a good thing. Stumbling out of the gate doesn't mean it's the final word on the full potential of a team. Fish is also someone who needed time to get a feel for his team and with the injuries that kind of made it harder. We haven't come close to seeing the best this team has to offer and this is why I have a problem with all the super negative posts and calls for tanking etc. It assumes this team can't and won't play better.
Listen, every team has injuries...that why rosters have 15 spots, so to say there is no reason to expect injuries is pure silliness. You hope those injuries arent to your main guys, but have you ever seen a season where every team was healthy....advise me when this was.
As far as Bargs and Jose...they lost a ton of games "knowing" each other, neither has had wonderfil seasons together. Jose's job here is to help move that ball and hit shots...not cater to Bargnani.
Now I do agree with you that the triangle principles are being displayed, I'll grant that and wont deny it. I just dont feel this type of offense is best for this squad. Whether it translates into wins, as a fan I would rather it do...I just dont believe it will.
Despite how you feel I am entitled to feel the way I do, based on the players we have and their individual histories.
Calm down nyk isn't a 50 win team this season
You'd be better prepared to enjoy rest of season if NY gets better.
But 50 wins?
what are we watching here........
knickscity wrote:nixluva wrote:The issue is that we really had no reason to expect that there would be these injuries coming out of camp. Sure at some point in the season, but this was not to be expected. In either event it's really not the most important point to get stuck on. It still remains true that what is most important is how this team develops and finishes. Teams can go into slumps at any point during a season. If it comes at the start it doesn't mean that is the end of the story.We don't know how Calderon and Bargs would have functioned together in this system, but they are very familiar with each other and Jose knows how to setup Bargs. The best years Bargs has played in this league came when he was paired with Jose. It's still up in the air and we won't know for many more games what both players impact will be on this team in this system. Indications are positive since both of them actually looked good in the limited time they had working in this system. Based on their strengths it's a system they should do well in.
The guys that are healthy and playing have been making progress even if it hasn't shown in the W/L column yet. They're getting better and more comfortable. The chemistry is building and that's a good thing. Stumbling out of the gate doesn't mean it's the final word on the full potential of a team. Fish is also someone who needed time to get a feel for his team and with the injuries that kind of made it harder. We haven't come close to seeing the best this team has to offer and this is why I have a problem with all the super negative posts and calls for tanking etc. It assumes this team can't and won't play better.
Listen, every team has injuries...that why rosters have 15 spots, so to say there is no reason to expect injuries is pure silliness. You hope those injuries arent to your main guys, but have you ever seen a season where every team was healthy....advise me when this was.As far as Bargs and Jose...they lost a ton of games "knowing" each other, neither has had wonderfil seasons together. Jose's job here is to help move that ball and hit shots...not cater to Bargnani.
Now I do agree with you that the triangle principles are being displayed, I'll grant that and wont deny it. I just dont feel this type of offense is best for this squad. Whether it translates into wins, as a fan I would rather it do...I just dont believe it will.
Despite how you feel I am entitled to feel the way I do, based on the players we have and their individual histories.
Injury isn't really a valid way to evaluate what the team should be able to do, if that was the case they would downgrade the Bulls based on DRose injury history. The Heat would also be a candidate for a poor predication based on his health, but that's not what most analysts do in judging a teams actual potential. If Paul George returns they won't downgrade the Pacers based on his injury history they'll assess the team based on what he can do when healthy. Yes it's a consideration but you can't account for it since players often come back and have healthy seasons even after a stretch of health issues. Take Zadrunas Ilgauskas serious injury history early on and then he had a good career after that.
As for Jose and Bargs, losing games in Toronto has NOTHING to do with how they'd impact this team. It's foolish to assume that cuz a player was on a team that didn't do well that this is the main thing you should use to evaluate if they can help a completely different team. Totally different roster, coaching staff and system of ball. The only thing that we can do is judge their talent and how that should fit into this system. In that regard both Jose and Bargs are a very good fit for this system.
In regards to the Triangle and this roster let's just say that this roster is in need of improvement regardless of system, but we haven't even seen these players at full strength or after they've fully adjusted to playing this way. From what I can see they are actually starting to get a handle on things. My take has been that this team has talent that has not been fully maximized and just watching how Shump has looked offensively makes me even more sure of that stance. JR is passing the ball at a higher rate and more effectively. We've seen guys like Dalembert make passes he's never been asked to make and he has made some really great passes. Let's see how this team looks with even more time playing this way, with each other and with more healthy guys back. Not to mention with Fish having more time to get a better handle on things. We haven't seen anywhere near the best this group has to offer. There's a ton of upside for this team IMO. Maybe not elite level, but they can get a lot better than they looked in the 1st ten games.
Knicks will have better games this season. Sustaining good team play has always been their issue. You need enough guys with brains, team ethics and 2 way play to sustain it. The Knicks have not had that for years and they still don't. That will take turning over the roster some more until a better mix and better talent is here. What the hell do you care Nix if people would rather tank? You literally sound desperate the way you're talking now. Rubber orange balls go bouncy bounce by men paid like they've cured cancer and you get all worked up over this stuff?
Splat wrote:Knicks will have better games this season. Sustaining good team play has always been their issue. You need enough guys with brains, team ethics and 2 way play to sustain it. The Knicks have not had that for years and they still don't. That will take turning over the roster some more until a better mix and better talent is here. What the hell do you care Nix if people would rather tank? You literally sound desperate the way you're talking now. Rubber orange balls go bouncy bounce by men paid like they've cured cancer and you get all worked up over this stuff?
You're reading too much into my words. I'm fine! I have been here for years and I have a pretty good handle on things in my world. It's just nonsensical to think this team is gonna tank when they haven't even seen what the team is like at full strength and after getting the hang of this system. Only you guys and some media are so convinced that this team can't really play good ball, which I totally disagree with and that is clear from all the posts i've made this year. If you really believe that this team won't improve a lot from what the looked like in the 1st 10 games then that's fine but i'm not buying what you guys are selling and neither are the Knicks.
