Knicks · we have a 50 win team on our hands this year, i'm good at feeling these things out (page 5)
Bonn1997 wrote:what mockery? Im sorry... true or false your #1 arguement is Melo is not eff%fishmike wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:classic Bonn... Calderon is more eff% than is opponents, so lets focus on production. Oh wait.. off to a Melo thread, lets forget about production and focus on eff%Vmart wrote:It's basically the same team that won 54 games. So yes I could see this team win 50 games, its just that the leadership will have to come from someone other than JKidd. I think Fisher and Calderon can provide that and having Phil is huge for team Psyche.It's much closer to the 37 win team. The only thing that's changed is that we replaced the PG with a less bad one - still a PG who gets outrpoduced by his opponent though.
But yea... Calderon is much less bad than Felton. Good stuff
Classic zero logic on your part. Anyway, you gonna state your win prediction or just mock other people's comments all day?
TRUE
Yet Calderon who is mr. eff%, never TOs over the ball, one of the best shooting %s in the league... well your knock is he gets outproduced. So your talking out both sides of your mouth. There is no mockery.
Ive been pretty outspoken about my expectations for the season and my reasons, and have repeatedly stated they will be +45 wins. I believe Vegas has 47.5 which I think it spot on, so my prediction would be 47-35. They are much closer to the 54 win team than last year. But you didnt watch... so I could see why from looking at the #s why you would think minimal improvement is possible.
How about you? how many wins do *YOU* predict?
fishmike wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:what mockery? Im sorry... true or false your #1 arguement is Melo is not eff%fishmike wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:classic Bonn... Calderon is more eff% than is opponents, so lets focus on production. Oh wait.. off to a Melo thread, lets forget about production and focus on eff%Vmart wrote:It's basically the same team that won 54 games. So yes I could see this team win 50 games, its just that the leadership will have to come from someone other than JKidd. I think Fisher and Calderon can provide that and having Phil is huge for team Psyche.It's much closer to the 37 win team. The only thing that's changed is that we replaced the PG with a less bad one - still a PG who gets outrpoduced by his opponent though.
But yea... Calderon is much less bad than Felton. Good stuff
Classic zero logic on your part. Anyway, you gonna state your win prediction or just mock other people's comments all day?TRUE
Yet Calderon who is mr. eff%, never TOs over the ball, one of the best shooting %s in the league... well your knock is he gets outproduced. So your talking out both sides of your mouth. There is no mockery.
Ive been pretty outspoken about my expectations for the season and my reasons, and have repeatedly stated they will be +45 wins. I believe Vegas has 47.5 which I think it spot on, so my prediction would be 47-35. They are much closer to the 54 win team than last year. But you didnt watch... so I could see why from looking at the #s why you would think minimal improvement is possible.
How about you? how many wins do *YOU* predict?
Melo is above average but not outstanding in efficiency. In both cases (Calderon and Melo) efficiency is important but only one part of the overall evaluation. It deserves some weight but so do overall defense/opponent production, rebounds, assists, etc. In no case, is any one of those factors the whole picture. So, yes, it is possible to criticize two players for different reasons.
"How about you? how many wins do *YOU* predict?"
40. See post above. I also told you about 1 week ago that I thought this was a slightly below .500 team.
Power Rankings
CBS
http://www.cbssports.com/nba/powerrankin...
NBA
http://www.nba.com/powerrankings/
Bleacher
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/21390...
All have us at around 21-22. Would like to see record breakdown which may come later in the summer
F500ONE wrote:Well things are still very brand new butPower Rankings
CBS
http://www.cbssports.com/nba/powerrankin...
NBA
http://www.nba.com/powerrankings/
Bleacher
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/21390...
All have us at around 21-22. Would like to see record breakdown which may come later in the summer
Interesting that nba.com had the Knicks at 19 last week. I wonder what happened to push them back a couple of spots.
F500ONE wrote:Well things are still very brand new butnot much thought put into those... essentially they have 9th or 10th in the East. New coaches and FO will have zero impact, they think we lost a great center in Tyson so thats got to be replaced and the team is Melo/JR and spare parts. Good.. the more folks that hate the more fun it makes the winning.Power Rankings
CBS
http://www.cbssports.com/nba/powerrankin...
NBA
http://www.nba.com/powerrankings/
Bleacher
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/21390...
All have us at around 21-22. Would like to see record breakdown which may come later in the summer
F500ONE wrote:Well things are still very brand new butPower Rankings
CBS
http://www.cbssports.com/nba/powerrankin...
NBA
http://www.nba.com/powerrankings/
Bleacher
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/21390...
All have us at around 21-22. Would like to see record breakdown which may come later in the summer
Why have CBS ranked the heat at number 8?! Madness! A declining Wade, No Lebron, an ageing Birman, no Ray Allen, no Shane Battier- how the heck is Bosh going to carry that team? Dang had no impact on the Cavs either. I wouldn't be surprised if they missed the playoffs.
As for our ranking- I don't care. We stunk last year in every way, and if you stink you deserve the ridicule in the offseason and low expectations the next season. Hopefully we have a bounce back season, but we have to earn it.
CrushAlot wrote:F500ONE wrote:Well things are still very brand new butPower Rankings
CBS
http://www.cbssports.com/nba/powerrankin...
NBA
http://www.nba.com/powerrankings/
Bleacher
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/21390...
All have us at around 21-22. Would like to see record breakdown which may come later in the summer
Interesting that nba.com had the Knicks at 19 last week. I wonder what happened to push them back a couple of spots.
it's july. these writers are going to re-assess and fluctuate a slot or two but the general picture is coming into view. ranking the knicks as 21st in the nba is by no means unrealistic, as contrasted with fantasies of 50 wins.
there is only so much you can expect when a team is going to be this bad defensively and in rebounding.
someone expecting more than .500 from this team will have to explain to me how a new coaching staff and system is going to account for an extra 10-15 wins this season. the knicks ranked 21st means that their defense puts them in a 5 or 6 game hole below .500 to begin with.
this means the offense has to be able to account for another 6-15 wins, which would rank them as one of the top offenses in the league. that's asking an awful lot.
last year hollinger had ny ranked 11th, just behind minnesota. their TS% was a below par 54.1 and without chandler there to pump up that number you are relying on the triangle offense to get them from 14th up to top 3, where they would need to raise their TS% up a whopping 3 points.
dk7th wrote:try watching some games. You will be shocked how much you can learn.CrushAlot wrote:F500ONE wrote:Well things are still very brand new butPower Rankings
CBS
http://www.cbssports.com/nba/powerrankin...
NBA
http://www.nba.com/powerrankings/
Bleacher
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/21390...
All have us at around 21-22. Would like to see record breakdown which may come later in the summer
Interesting that nba.com had the Knicks at 19 last week. I wonder what happened to push them back a couple of spots.it's july. these writers are going to re-assess and fluctuate a slot or two but the general picture is coming into view. ranking the knicks as 21st in the nba is by no means unrealistic, as contrasted with fantasies of 50 wins.
there is only so much you can expect when a team is going to be this bad defensively and in rebounding.
someone expecting more than .500 from this team will have to explain to me how a new coaching staff and system is going to account for an extra 10-15 wins this season. the knicks ranked 21st means that their defense puts them in a 5 or 6 game hole below .500 to begin with.
this means the offense has to be able to account for another 6-15 wins, which would rank them as one of the top offenses in the league. that's asking an awful lot.
last year hollinger had ny ranked 11th, just behind minnesota. their TS% was a below par 54.1 and without chandler there to pump up that number you are relying on the triangle offense to get them from 14th up to top 3, where they would need to raise their TS% up a whopping 3 points.
fishmike wrote:dk7th wrote:try watching some games. You will be shocked how much you can learn.CrushAlot wrote:F500ONE wrote:Well things are still very brand new butPower Rankings
CBS
http://www.cbssports.com/nba/powerrankin...
NBA
http://www.nba.com/powerrankings/
Bleacher
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/21390...
All have us at around 21-22. Would like to see record breakdown which may come later in the summer
Interesting that nba.com had the Knicks at 19 last week. I wonder what happened to push them back a couple of spots.it's july. these writers are going to re-assess and fluctuate a slot or two but the general picture is coming into view. ranking the knicks as 21st in the nba is by no means unrealistic, as contrasted with fantasies of 50 wins.
there is only so much you can expect when a team is going to be this bad defensively and in rebounding.
someone expecting more than .500 from this team will have to explain to me how a new coaching staff and system is going to account for an extra 10-15 wins this season. the knicks ranked 21st means that their defense puts them in a 5 or 6 game hole below .500 to begin with.
this means the offense has to be able to account for another 6-15 wins, which would rank them as one of the top offenses in the league. that's asking an awful lot.
last year hollinger had ny ranked 11th, just behind minnesota. their TS% was a below par 54.1 and without chandler there to pump up that number you are relying on the triangle offense to get them from 14th up to top 3, where they would need to raise their TS% up a whopping 3 points.
listen up skippy i do believe you are a sucker for punishment. can't be any other explanation for making a gratuitous and moronic response like you've done here and elsewhere.
but you go right on ahead and do you.
when the knicks are no longer boring train wreck to watch i will start watching again. so far as your being a boring train wreck... there is no fix for that.
smackeddog wrote:F500ONE wrote:Well things are still very brand new butPower Rankings
CBS
http://www.cbssports.com/nba/powerrankin...
NBA
http://www.nba.com/powerrankings/
Bleacher
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/21390...
All have us at around 21-22. Would like to see record breakdown which may come later in the summerWhy have CBS ranked the heat at number 8?! Madness! A declining Wade, No Lebron, an ageing Birman, no Ray Allen, no Shane Battier- how the heck is Bosh going to carry that team? Dang had no impact on the Cavs either. I wouldn't be surprised if they missed the playoffs.
As for our ranking- I don't care. We stunk last year in every way, and if you stink you deserve the ridicule in the offseason and low expectations the next season. Hopefully we have a bounce back season, but we have to earn it.
I wish kberg did more of the CBS stuff. I might be missing something but I generally don't get much out of Matt Moore articles.
dk7th wrote:someone expecting more than .500 from this team will have to explain to me how a new coaching staff and system is going to account for an extra 10-15 wins this season. the knicks ranked 21st means that their defense puts them in a 5 or 6 game hole below .500 to begin with.this means the offense has to be able to account for another 6-15 wins, which would rank them as one of the top offenses in the league. that's asking an awful lot.
I think if you use reason you can get to the rationale for a big improvement over last year. You could hardly have worse production than we had from our guards last year. This from a team that basically lived off the production from the guard spots to win 54 games. There's no way this team loses so many games if our guards had shot the ball better most of early last season. JR got hot late, but really this team lost a LOT of games early on that they could've won. We lost 21 games in the 1st 2 months!!!
JR: FG% 3PT% FT% Felton: FG% 3PT% FT% Shump: FG% 3PT% FT%
Nov. 32.8 28.6 59.1 Nov. 36.6 23.7 85.7 Nov. 40.5 34.4 78.6
Dec. 36.8 39.8 61.1 Dec. 40.7 39.1 62.5 Dec. 31.4 27.9 71.4
Jan. 43.1 39.1 56.3 Jan. 43.4 29.7 70.4 Jan. 43.6 40.6 73.7
Feb. 41.7 39.7 64.5 Feb. 37.4 29.7 61.9 Feb. 31.3 32.0 00.0
Mar. 45.1 40.2 81.0 Mar. 38.5 37.1 73.7 Mar. 36.5 36.1 100.0 (2-2)
Apr. 49.6 46.3 78.6 Apr. 37.3 38.1 78.6 Apr. 40.4 19.0 60.0
IMO it's not just overly optimistic to think this team can play much better basketball with a proven system that promotes teamwork and with better fitting players and Jose at PG who is a highly efficient player. We should expect a more efficient team all the way around. This is why I think this team can win 50 games and win the Atlantic. No they won't be amazing defensively, but as long as they are decent they will win games.
Nevermind the guy rarely plays a full season and although is a good player, it is not like he takes over games.
Bonn1997 wrote:Vmart wrote:It's basically the same team that won 54 games. So yes I could see this team win 50 games, its just that the leadership will have to come from someone other than JKidd. I think Fisher and Calderon can provide that and having Phil is huge for team Psyche.It's much closer to the 37 win team. The only thing that's changed is that we replaced the PG with a less bad one - still a PG who gets outrpoduced by his opponent though.
Nice to keep the expectations low. Expect the worst hope for the best attitude. That basically is NYK fan's motto anyway.
nyvector16 wrote:Crush.. it is another one of the Deng is a superstar media narratives that they have been pushing for years...
Nevermind the guy rarely plays a full season and although is a good player, it is not like he takes over games.
who on the san antonio spurs takes over games.
dk7th wrote:nyvector16 wrote:Crush.. it is another one of the Deng is a superstar media narratives that they have been pushing for years...
Nevermind the guy rarely plays a full season and although is a good player, it is not like he takes over games.who on the san antonio spurs takes over games.
One of our biggest achilles may have been not having a guy who could "finish" games.
Parker has taken over games as has Ginobli, not at high clips though
F500ONE wrote:dk7th wrote:nyvector16 wrote:Crush.. it is another one of the Deng is a superstar media narratives that they have been pushing for years...
Nevermind the guy rarely plays a full season and although is a good player, it is not like he takes over games.who on the san antonio spurs takes over games.
One of our biggest achilles may have been not having a guy who could "finish" games.
Parker has taken over games as has Ginobli, not at high clips though
Woody burned out Melo overplaying him and his usage rate was way too high. Phil and Fish won't do that. Melo should be stronger at the close of games and the offense will be less predictable so that should make things much better closing games. Playing a team game will make this team more effective than ISO Melo was.
dk7th wrote:nyvector16 wrote:Crush.. it is another one of the Deng is a superstar media narratives that they have been pushing for years...
Nevermind the guy rarely plays a full season and although is a good player, it is not like he takes over games.who on the san antonio spurs takes over games.
Kawhi Leonard won Finals MVP by basically doing exactly what you're asking.
At 22 years which is the youngest to win the award since ironically....
Leonard averaged 17.8 points, 6.4 rebounds, 2.0 assists, 1.6 steals and 1.2 blocks in the series, shooting 61.2 percent from the field and 57.9 percent from behind the 3-point line. In the last three games, all Spurs wins, he scored 71 points on 24-for-35 shooting while serving as the primary defender on LeBron James.
In essence he really didnt take take over, he's in sole possession of ownership.
Not sure where you get the idea that Melo's usage is gonna go down, if anything it may go up.
He just wont be tasked to score every trip down, the team will learn that they have options based on the defense presented, the essence of the triangle.
But make no mistake he will have his lion share of the ball decisions just Like Jordan and Kobe who had huge usage numbers.
The usage isnt a problem, putting it to work in a team orientation was the issue last year.
dk7th wrote:nyvector16 wrote:Crush.. it is another one of the Deng is a superstar media narratives that they have been pushing for years...
Nevermind the guy rarely plays a full season and although is a good player, it is not like he takes over games.who on the san antonio spurs takes over games.
Arguably, the Spurs are so good because they have a handful of guys who can take over. That's a product of their amazing system and having the right players plugged in. Parker, Duncan, Ginobili, now Kawhi, and even Green when he catches fire can "take over a game". Then again my definition of the term may be different than what others define it as. In short it seems to me that the Spurs system can put any of them in the position to take over a game, sometimes collectively sometimes individually.
Now, I know this isn't contradicting what your saying nor is it eliciting the response you were tryng to get to prove your point but it got me thinking about the Spurs so I felt like I would respond.
knickscity wrote:They wont win 54 like they did under Woody, but should be more cohesive.Not sure where you get the idea that Melo's usage is gonna go down, if anything it may go up.
He just wont be tasked to score every trip down, the team will learn that they have options based on the defense presented, the essence of the triangle.
But make no mistake he will have his lion share of the ball decisions just Like Jordan and Kobe who had huge usage numbers.
The usage isnt a problem, putting it to work in a team orientation was the issue last year.
Perhaps you're right about Melo's usage rate, but I do expect that they won't wear him out and that means he'll likely play a few less minutes per game and he won't have to work so hard on every scoring attempt. A high % of ISO plays is draining as Melo has to work harder to get his points. In the Triangle Melo should get more easy scoring opps which should make him more efficient.
I'm betting that Melo's total minutes will be substantially less than he played under Woody. Last year in just 77 games he logged 2982 minutes which was more than any year except for his Rookie season in which he played 2995 minutes but in 80 games. Better TEAM play will allow Fish to save Melo for closing moments. Not to mention that since the offense is less predictable and includes more players in the scheme, that will make Melo more dangerous. Under Woody we were perhaps the easiest team to defend in the closing moments. Teams knew what we would do and it was easy to defend. At least with the Triangle there is off ball motion and multiple options.