Papabear Says
LOL I left the house at 7:45 this morning and you guys were at it. I just got back home half an hour or more ago and you guys are still at it. Damn when does the haters work.
I wouldn't call Crush a "Hater"
gunsnewing wrote:I wouldn't call Crush a "Hater"
Papabear Says
The Lovers can stay and post all day.
fishmike wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:yellowboy90 wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:jrodmc wrote:foosballnick wrote:fishmike wrote:
you started a thread saying Melo doesnt guard Lebron in another attempt to spam your Melo hate. A few people posted video that clearly shows you didnt watch the game and were just spewing more of your vomit.
Funny how the Knick fans over there said the same things they do over here. You make stuff up. Dont watch. Post constant anti-Melo troll spam and have the social skills of a snapping turtle with herpes. Well.. they dont say that last part about the turtle... that came from me. Hey rooster... Im really sorry you got traded, hurt and have underperformed.
You're wrong. DK didn't get traded.....he got cut and is now on another team, hanging on for the vet minimum.
Wow, dkftfk, now you have 3 people making you look stupid, mr. towering intellect, better than the majority of paid professional sports writers, giant among NBA GM's, better than anything on ESPN, paradign of make believe athletic professionalism, economic social consciousness and team sport spirit...
You're right. Nobody makes you look stupid, dktfk.
You do that yourself better than anyone on here ever could or would. Kudos to ma and pa.
Consensus doesn't always equal intelligence!
DK words things harshly and maybe he made a mistake about who Melo guarded in a game several years ago. He's been less off the mark than most here in the past few years, though, in the grand scheme of things. (And yes, I'm aware that Fish will provide an anti-homosexuality comment in response.)
Is it really mistake if you allegedly didn't watch the game to say one way or another? There is a difference when you make a comment about a game you watch and say I do not remember something but to make a claim up out of thin air is more than a mistake wouldn't you say?
Maybe he wasn't wrong. I'm reading the comments here and no one has unambiguously established that he was wrong (or right). That would require re-playing the whole game.
I'm not that invested in some comment he made on another forum years ago though. It looks like a personal vendetta. You have to admit it looks odd if not inappropriate to either be bookmarking or searching for posts a member here made years ago on outside forums.
why? Dont we do that with teams? Look at what they did before they came here?and Bonn... I love gays. Im sorry if you took my tfk + dk = lovers and cuddlers comments as anti-homosexual, but I can see why. If I was gay I sure as hell would NOT want those chaps lumped in with any group I associate with, so I can see the slight. Apologies to any of
TFK and DK (tfk... you can laugh a little inside now) were exiled from another Knick board for spamming the same negative crap they post here, and are much more interested in pissing people off and celebrating their "mental" victories than actually engaging with the community. So there is context. Lots of it.
fish when was the last time you had a meaningful basketball conversation? Not fantasy, not a homer filled love fest, but meaningful discussion? I wonder because you seem completely preoccupied with myself and dk, you should be spending that time doing some simple research as your arguments are not just full of holes but they are lazy, you don't do your homework before you post, you misinterpret stats and when all else fail you start slinging feces...
Instead of worrying about what DK, myself and bonn say, why not actually add something to this forum other than the crappy school yard tactics you try to employ here?
dk7th wrote:nixluva wrote:Paul George is basically moving in the wrong direction and Melo is saying he wants to buy into a TEAM Oriented Style of play. So that's the end of the argument in my mind. Melo has signed on to playing for a coach and GM who are running the Triangle Offense. There's no real way around playing team ball in this system. The ball and players are going to be moving before Melo gets the ball in his hands and while he has the ball in his hands the other players will still be moving. There's nothing for a Knicks fan to be concerned about in comparing the two players situations. PG lost a teammate who carried some of the scoring load. Melo is gaining a PG who can score and set up teammates and a system that enhances the play of all the players on the team. I'll take Melo playing team ball and this new offense over PG taking more shots.
with melo it has always been lip service to these things. always.
so until i see otherwise melo is guilty until proven innocent and paul george can say whatever he wants and is innocent until proven guilty. i can't imagine a player becoming MORE selfish as he gets older.
people shouldn't have a problem with that, since it is by deeds, not words, that we judge others.
and that is the point DK, as you said, it has been lip service for carmelo for the past 12 years.. as far as PG goes, I find it funny how much attention is being paid to that.. first of all PG never played that way, so when he says he has to get back to playing that style, I really can't take that serious.. PG has showed us what he is about, as you said.. deeds not words is what we buy into..
fishmike wrote:F500ONE wrote:smackeddog wrote:Melo= devil
Paul George= mighty God
I'm not sure many see it this way at all.
Who do we give credit to above conclusion
Crush?
I was thinking more along the lines of////
PG better if considering both sides of the ball.
Possibly not worth a Max contract, Melo definitely not worth max contract
whos on your list of guys who are "max" guys? I would love to hear it... 5 GMs with a lot of rings between them think differently. Just curious whos on your list.
What 5 GMs?
I know you're not talking about Phil who asked him to take a paycut, while offering 5 different contracts
I know you can't be referring to any GM who courted him besides the Lakers
Let me ask you a better question.
Do you think Phil would ask Lebron to take a paycut and offer him 5 different contract options
Or would he have offered him 5yrs $129mil
My max criteria definitely would start with if you're a Top 10 player.
Melo is not, probably where ESPN ranked him last year 17th or thereabouts
Then my next criteria would probably focus on winning potential-probability.
And some of the things I listed a few pages back
Bottomline Melo is not a Max player IMO
F500ONE wrote:fishmike wrote:F500ONE wrote:smackeddog wrote:Melo= devil
Paul George= mighty God
I'm not sure many see it this way at all.
Who do we give credit to above conclusion
Crush?
I was thinking more along the lines of////
PG better if considering both sides of the ball.
Possibly not worth a Max contract, Melo definitely not worth max contract
whos on your list of guys who are "max" guys? I would love to hear it... 5 GMs with a lot of rings between them think differently. Just curious whos on your list.
What 5 GMs?
I know you're not talking about Phil who asked him to take a paycut, while offering 5 different contracts
I know you can't be referring to any GM who courted him besides the Lakers
Let me ask you a better question.
Do you think Phil would ask Lebron to take a paycut and offer him 5 different contract options
Or would he have offered him 5yrs $129mil
My max criteria definitely would start with if you're a Top 10 player.
Melo is not, probably where ESPN ranked him last year 17th or thereabouts
Then my next criteria would probably focus on winning potential-probability.
And some of the things I listed a few pages back
Bottomline Melo is not a Max player IMO
Nelson in Dallas has a ring. Paxton has rings as a player. That is four counting Phil and Mitch. Not sure who the fifth was.
CrushAlot wrote:F500ONE wrote:fishmike wrote:F500ONE wrote:smackeddog wrote:Melo= devil
Paul George= mighty God
I'm not sure many see it this way at all.
Who do we give credit to above conclusion
Crush?
I was thinking more along the lines of////
PG better if considering both sides of the ball.
Possibly not worth a Max contract, Melo definitely not worth max contract
whos on your list of guys who are "max" guys? I would love to hear it... 5 GMs with a lot of rings between them think differently. Just curious whos on your list.
What 5 GMs?
I know you're not talking about Phil who asked him to take a paycut, while offering 5 different contracts
I know you can't be referring to any GM who courted him besides the Lakers
Let me ask you a better question.
Do you think Phil would ask Lebron to take a paycut and offer him 5 different contract options
Or would he have offered him 5yrs $129mil
My max criteria definitely would start with if you're a Top 10 player.
Melo is not, probably where ESPN ranked him last year 17th or thereabouts
Then my next criteria would probably focus on winning potential-probability.
And some of the things I listed a few pages back
Bottomline Melo is not a Max player IMO
Nelson in Dallas has a ring. Paxton has rings as a player. That is four counting Phil and Mitch. Not sure who the fifth was.
I'm not gonna repost because I've already addressed this.
The numbers were posted
Those teams except the Lakers did not offer him their full max.
Therefore they thought differently of his Max worthiness
F500ONE wrote:CrushAlot wrote:F500ONE wrote:fishmike wrote:F500ONE wrote:smackeddog wrote:Melo= devil
Paul George= mighty God
I'm not sure many see it this way at all.
Who do we give credit to above conclusion
Crush?
I was thinking more along the lines of////
PG better if considering both sides of the ball.
Possibly not worth a Max contract, Melo definitely not worth max contract
whos on your list of guys who are "max" guys? I would love to hear it... 5 GMs with a lot of rings between them think differently. Just curious whos on your list.
What 5 GMs?
I know you're not talking about Phil who asked him to take a paycut, while offering 5 different contracts
I know you can't be referring to any GM who courted him besides the Lakers
Let me ask you a better question.
Do you think Phil would ask Lebron to take a paycut and offer him 5 different contract options
Or would he have offered him 5yrs $129mil
My max criteria definitely would start with if you're a Top 10 player.
Melo is not, probably where ESPN ranked him last year 17th or thereabouts
Then my next criteria would probably focus on winning potential-probability.
And some of the things I listed a few pages back
Bottomline Melo is not a Max player IMO
Nelson in Dallas has a ring. Paxton has rings as a player. That is four counting Phil and Mitch. Not sure who the fifth was.
I'm not gonna repost because I've already addressed this.
The numbers were posted
Those teams except the Lakers did not offer him their full max.
Therefore they thought differently of his Max worthiness
They offered the most they could. Morey would have given him the max if he wanted to go to the rockets.
tkf wrote:dk7th wrote:nixluva wrote:Paul George is basically moving in the wrong direction and Melo is saying he wants to buy into a TEAM Oriented Style of play. So that's the end of the argument in my mind. Melo has signed on to playing for a coach and GM who are running the Triangle Offense. There's no real way around playing team ball in this system. The ball and players are going to be moving before Melo gets the ball in his hands and while he has the ball in his hands the other players will still be moving. There's nothing for a Knicks fan to be concerned about in comparing the two players situations. PG lost a teammate who carried some of the scoring load. Melo is gaining a PG who can score and set up teammates and a system that enhances the play of all the players on the team. I'll take Melo playing team ball and this new offense over PG taking more shots.
with melo it has always been lip service to these things. always.
so until i see otherwise melo is guilty until proven innocent and paul george can say whatever he wants and is innocent until proven guilty. i can't imagine a player becoming MORE selfish as he gets older.
people shouldn't have a problem with that, since it is by deeds, not words, that we judge others.
and that is the point DK, as you said, it has been lip service for carmelo for the past 12 years.. as far as PG goes, I find it funny how much attention is being paid to that.. first of all PG never played that way, so when he says he has to get back to playing that style, I really can't take that serious.. PG has showed us what he is about, as you said.. deeds not words is what we buy into..
When this team won 54 games Melo did actually start the season playing team ball. He progressively had to increase his scoring load when it was clear that we weren't getting the same scoring and Woody wasn't dialing up anything new to help things work better. His only answer was more ISO Melo. Melo started the year taking 19 shots a game and it increased to 23 in December and then 25 in Jan. In the Playoffs it was 26.7 against the Celtics in the playoffs. A lot of his issues in that area are about the style of play too. It's not just him jacking shots. I'm pretty sure Fish isn't gonna be calling for ISO Melo as if there's no other BB play.
Now we get to see Melo and this team play REAL BB. Real Team Oriented BB. Ball and Player movement as opposed to just standing and watching Melo jab step every play.
Derrick Rose would not recruit Melo but went out of his way to recruit Gasol. Maybe we should make Derrick Rose GM of the Knicks. He seems to get it!
gunsnewing wrote:Derrick Rose would not recruit Melo but went out of his way to recruit Gasol. Maybe we should make Derrick Rose GM of the Knicks. He seems to get it!
Maybe you could reconsider becoming a Nyets fan?
tkf wrote:fishmike wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:yellowboy90 wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:jrodmc wrote:foosballnick wrote:fishmike wrote:
you started a thread saying Melo doesnt guard Lebron in another attempt to spam your Melo hate. A few people posted video that clearly shows you didnt watch the game and were just spewing more of your vomit.
Funny how the Knick fans over there said the same things they do over here. You make stuff up. Dont watch. Post constant anti-Melo troll spam and have the social skills of a snapping turtle with herpes. Well.. they dont say that last part about the turtle... that came from me. Hey rooster... Im really sorry you got traded, hurt and have underperformed.
You're wrong. DK didn't get traded.....he got cut and is now on another team, hanging on for the vet minimum.
Wow, dkftfk, now you have 3 people making you look stupid, mr. towering intellect, better than the majority of paid professional sports writers, giant among NBA GM's, better than anything on ESPN, paradign of make believe athletic professionalism, economic social consciousness and team sport spirit...
You're right. Nobody makes you look stupid, dktfk.
You do that yourself better than anyone on here ever could or would. Kudos to ma and pa.
Consensus doesn't always equal intelligence!
DK words things harshly and maybe he made a mistake about who Melo guarded in a game several years ago. He's been less off the mark than most here in the past few years, though, in the grand scheme of things. (And yes, I'm aware that Fish will provide an anti-homosexuality comment in response.)
Is it really mistake if you allegedly didn't watch the game to say one way or another? There is a difference when you make a comment about a game you watch and say I do not remember something but to make a claim up out of thin air is more than a mistake wouldn't you say?
Maybe he wasn't wrong. I'm reading the comments here and no one has unambiguously established that he was wrong (or right). That would require re-playing the whole game.
I'm not that invested in some comment he made on another forum years ago though. It looks like a personal vendetta. You have to admit it looks odd if not inappropriate to either be bookmarking or searching for posts a member here made years ago on outside forums.
why? Dont we do that with teams? Look at what they did before they came here?and Bonn... I love gays. Im sorry if you took my tfk + dk = lovers and cuddlers comments as anti-homosexual, but I can see why. If I was gay I sure as hell would NOT want those chaps lumped in with any group I associate with, so I can see the slight. Apologies to any of
TFK and DK (tfk... you can laugh a little inside now) were exiled from another Knick board for spamming the same negative crap they post here, and are much more interested in pissing people off and celebrating their "mental" victories than actually engaging with the community. So there is context. Lots of it.
fish when was the last time you had a meaningful basketball conversation? Not fantasy, not a homer filled love fest, but meaningful discussion? I wonder because you seem completely preoccupied with myself and dk, you should be spending that time doing some simple research as your arguments are not just full of holes but they are lazy, you don't do your homework before you post, you misinterpret stats and when all else fail you start slinging feces...
Instead of worrying about what DK, myself and bonn say, why not actually add something to this forum other than the crappy school yard tactics you try to employ here?
seriously dude go screw yourself. You have been spamming and trolling this board for a very long time now. You have been told by the mods repeatedly to not be a dick, you have been kicked off other forums for exactly the same thing. I have no need qualify or quantify my contributions to you. None whatsoever.
Fantasy homer filled love fest? Let me enlighten you... many folks LOVE the teams they follow. Many folks want to dream and talk to other fans who share that love for the same team. Thats why they come to a site like UltimateKnicks, to find like minded folks. Do we all agree? Of course not. Is there spirited discussion? Sometimes quarrells? Sure. But when someone constantly posts the same negative crap over and over and has been asked to stop and that crap constantly derails any of the good discussion you pretent to want, it gets old and fast. So yes... When you and the other realGM reject post your feces as fact and trash other posters for having a different view yes... I am going to fling that poop right back at you.
You start your anti-Melo crap, accuse everyone of being homers and lovers and needle people until they get pissed off and you and your gimp can then celebrate your victory of having owned other posters. If thats what you want to bring to the table every time then yea... Im going respond in kind and point out what a donkey you are. Its low hanging fruit.. because your not capable of anything besides your singleminded BS.
Have a nice day!
Paul George said something and this thread turns into another bash Melo thread? So sad that forum has been hijacked by them.
Silverfuel wrote:Paul George said something and this thread turns into another bash Melo thread? So sad that forum has been hijacked by them.
its slow summer. Also let them get their kicks in. It just makes watching Phil running the Knicks to the NBA elite that much more rewarding. We can look back and remember the guys crying about Melo's deal when in two years the cap is $90mm and the Knicks are playing for a title and this crap is an afterthought. The realgm rejects will surely be gone spinning their wheels about Gallo's 4th knee surgery or posted "Paul George, fall of our hero" threads.
Except Guns.. we have to keep him around and get him loaded until he hurls and we can give him wedgies. He's earned that. 
The first 2 posts on this thread were created to get a rise out of the Melo haters by the way.
It's no secret Melo apologists hate Paul George and discredit everything he has accomplished as a 20 something year old
I still vehemently remember Paul George making Melo his bitch in the playoffs when we won 54 games.
Not only did he score at will and sank jumpers in Melo's face, he also completely shut Melo down.
Best 2way player I've seen since Scottie Pippen. Very similar games and impact. Just needs to continue to work on his efficiency
gunsnewing wrote:I still vehemently remember Paul George making Melo his bitch in the playoffs when we won 54 games.Not only did he score at will and sank jumpers in Melo's face, he also completely shut Melo down.
Best 2way player I've seen since Scottie Pippen. Very similar games and impact. Just needs to continue to work on his efficiency
Guns... your memory sucks. It really does. That is the furthest thing from what happened. Go back and look:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201305180IND.html
Look at every box score... The pattern is simple. Melo's bad shooting games come when nobody else can hit shots either. So when JR, Felton, Iman and Kidd are bricking everything what happens? What's Woody's adjustment? Iso-Melo, and thats when you see those 10-28 shooting nights like you saw in game 1.
For the series:
Paul George: FGs 39%, 19.5ppg 7rebs, 5assists
Melo: FGs 43%, 28.5ppg, 8rebs, 1.5assists
And Melo put up those #s with this support:
JR: 29% FGs
Felton 40% FGs
Shump: 38% FGs
Jason 'the MVP' Kidd: didnt hit a FG in any of the 6 games he played
So your statements and reality dont add up mate... not at all.
Nobody here hates Paul George. He's a really good player. One of the league's best defenders and a great passer. He's not the scorer he thinks he is yet, and it will be very interesting to see his #s when defenses and zone in on him now with Lance gone.
I mean come on... and this all on Melo? The Melo-haters think this is excuse making and homerism. Paul George played well. Melo played well. If you watched the series came down the Knick guards couldnt hit a basket and Hibbert killed Chandler.
I have no need to protect Melo... his prior poor playoff games and bad shooting nights speak for themselves, but your assesment on that series is not what happened. It just isnt.
Silverfuel wrote:Paul George said something and this thread turns into another bash Melo thread? So sad that forum has been hijacked by them.
The thought of this shit going on for another 4 years depresses me.
fishmike wrote:gunsnewing wrote:I still vehemently remember Paul George making Melo his bitch in the playoffs when we won 54 games.Not only did he score at will and sank jumpers in Melo's face, he also completely shut Melo down.
Best 2way player I've seen since Scottie Pippen. Very similar games and impact. Just needs to continue to work on his efficiency
Guns... your memory sucks. It really does. That is the furthest thing from what happened. Go back and look:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201305180IND.htmlLook at every box score... The pattern is simple. Melo's bad shooting games come when nobody else can hit shots either. So when JR, Felton, Iman and Kidd are bricking everything what happens? What's Woody's adjustment? Iso-Melo, and thats when you see those 10-28 shooting nights like you saw in game 1.
For the series:
Paul George: FGs 39%, 19.5ppg 7rebs, 5assists
Melo: FGs 43%, 28.5ppg, 8rebs, 1.5assists
And Melo put up those #s with this support:
JR: 29% FGs
Felton 40% FGs
Shump: 38% FGs
Jason 'the MVP' Kidd: didnt hit a FG in any of the 6 games he played
So your statements and reality dont add up mate... not at all.
Nobody here hates Paul George. He's a really good player. One of the league's best defenders and a great passer. He's not the scorer he thinks he is yet, and it will be very interesting to see his #s when defenses and zone in on him now with Lance gone.
I mean come on... and this all on Melo? The Melo-haters think this is excuse making and homerism. Paul George played well. Melo played well. If you watched the series came down the Knick guards couldnt hit a basket and Hibbert killed Chandler.
I have no need to protect Melo... his prior poor playoff games and bad shooting nights speak for themselves, but your assesment on that series is not what happened. It just isnt.
Maybe it was the fact that I remember Paul George hitting clutch shots while Melo ISO and chucked in the 4th.
What were their 4th quarter numbers?
I will let this one go because it can be argued that Melo was exhausted.
Game 1 really set the ton for the series though. Melo was awful in that game after the Knicks played great in the series clincher vs Boston
gunsnewing wrote:fishmike wrote:gunsnewing wrote:I still vehemently remember Paul George making Melo his bitch in the playoffs when we won 54 games.Not only did he score at will and sank jumpers in Melo's face, he also completely shut Melo down.
Best 2way player I've seen since Scottie Pippen. Very similar games and impact. Just needs to continue to work on his efficiency
Guns... your memory sucks. It really does. That is the furthest thing from what happened. Go back and look:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201305180IND.htmlLook at every box score... The pattern is simple. Melo's bad shooting games come when nobody else can hit shots either. So when JR, Felton, Iman and Kidd are bricking everything what happens? What's Woody's adjustment? Iso-Melo, and thats when you see those 10-28 shooting nights like you saw in game 1.
For the series:
Paul George: FGs 39%, 19.5ppg 7rebs, 5assists
Melo: FGs 43%, 28.5ppg, 8rebs, 1.5assists
And Melo put up those #s with this support:
JR: 29% FGs
Felton 40% FGs
Shump: 38% FGs
Jason 'the MVP' Kidd: didnt hit a FG in any of the 6 games he played
So your statements and reality dont add up mate... not at all.
Nobody here hates Paul George. He's a really good player. One of the league's best defenders and a great passer. He's not the scorer he thinks he is yet, and it will be very interesting to see his #s when defenses and zone in on him now with Lance gone.
I mean come on... and this all on Melo? The Melo-haters think this is excuse making and homerism. Paul George played well. Melo played well. If you watched the series came down the Knick guards couldnt hit a basket and Hibbert killed Chandler.
I have no need to protect Melo... his prior poor playoff games and bad shooting nights speak for themselves, but your assesment on that series is not what happened. It just isnt.
Maybe it was the fact that I remember Paul George hitting clutch shots while Melo ISO and chucked in the 4th.
What were their 4th quarter numbers?
I will let this one go because it can be argued that Melo was exhausted.
Game 1 really set the ton for the series though. Melo was awful in that game after the Knicks played great in the series clincher vs Boston
here is melo by the numbers against indiana:
28.5 ppg on 42.8%FG and averaging 25 shots per game
1.3 apg
1.1 orpg
6.3 drpg
51.1TS%
his usage rate was 37.65% which is the amount of time the ball was in his hands for a play, while his assist rate was 12.52% which is the amount of time he was on the floor when an assist was made for a teammate. that ratio is 3:1
melo CAN'T create for others. the part of his game that was really exposed since he was not double-teamed on the perimeter is that HE CAN'T FIND THE OPEN MAN ON HIS DRIBBLE DRIVES when the defense collapses into the lane. everything was bull-ahead with head down and try to draw a foul or convert a shot. that predictability hurts his team. his best shots were when he shot from behind a screen or two. that did not happen nearly enough.
and what these numbers say is that while he was very inefficient he was also very selfish. and this is the player who is being paid 124 million dollars.
