Knicks · Amare trade talks again (page 1)

Amar’e Stoudemire is entering the final year of his contract with the Knicks, one that will pay him more than $23 million, but is uninsurable due to his history of injuries.

When looking at that extreme level of financial risk along with Stoudemire’s current level of production, it wouldn’t seem to make sense for another team to be interested in acquiring him via trade.

But there is one scenario where something could happen, although it wouldn’t go down for another six months.

From Steve Kyler of Basketball Insiders:

What’s far more likely is that the long rumored Amar’e Stoudemire to Philadelphia deal gets done at the deadline. The Sixers take on Stoudemire’s $23 million salary cap number, which pushes them way over the minimum. They would only owe him roughly 30 percent of his remaining contract, so they’d end up paying him $7 million in cash and likely extract a draft pick or a rookie scale player for their troubles.

Flexibility in the NBA is currency – both figuratively and literally. The 76ers will likely meet the floor; they just are not incentivized in any way to do it before the trade deadline.

This came up in a larger discussion about how the Sixers are well under the minimum amount that teams need to commit in terms of payroll for the upcoming season, but it’s not like there are any penalties if that dollar amount doesn’t ultimately get spent; all that happens to a team that doesn’t meet the league’s salary floor is that the remaining dollars get split up among the existing players on the roster once the season is finished.

The deal would make sense for both sides from a financial perspective, but could ultimately depend on New York’s place in the standings at the time.

If Stoudemire is healthy and a contributing member of the rotation, and if the Knicks have a realistic shot at making the playoffs, New York will likely keep Stoudemire on the books for the remainder of the season.

If things have gone south by then, however, then this seems like something that could certainly take place.

I don't see any incentive to trade amare at the deadline if your not getting double the value, draft picks, or young stud..so if he's mid way through the season, what sennse would it make..

I hope phil tells them or who ever to kick rocks, and I hope Amare has a very productive yr, and we resign him on the cheap side

Why would the Knicks trade Amare at the cost of a pick or asset at the deadline when his salary is expiring at the end of the year anyway. Is it just me or does that seem colossally dumb? I know the Knicks have made some stupid moves over the years but this would take the cake. I guess in the late summer reporters have to concoct ridiculous stories out of boredom.

Pure speculation. What is it we would get back? The article wasnt very clear.

http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topi...

Knicks say are out of any playoff contention and PHilly needs to make their cap or be penalized.

They can give knicks a second round pick and only have to pay 7mil of his salary.

Thats why.

Its an asset.

I'm sure if this did happen that Phil has a plan behind it so i wouldn't take too much at all from this rumor.

Nalod wrote:Knicks say are out of any playoff contention and PHilly needs to make their cap or be penalized.

They can give knicks a second round pick and only have to pay 7mil of his salary.

Thats why.

Its an asset.

That makes sense, but the article makes it seem like the Knicks would be giving a pick in addition to STAT.

BigDaddyG wrote:

Nalod wrote:Knicks say are out of any playoff contention and PHilly needs to make their cap or be penalized.

They can give knicks a second round pick and only have to pay 7mil of his salary.

Thats why.

Its an asset.

That makes sense, but the article makes it seem like the Knicks would be giving a pick in addition to STAT.

It also doesn't say they will be penalized for actually having so much cap space avail, it will just get split up amongst the players on the roster.

I'm not giving up Aamre for no 2nd round pick in a weak weak 2015 nba draft, that crazy and stupid.

knicks1248 wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

Nalod wrote:Knicks say are out of any playoff contention and PHilly needs to make their cap or be penalized.

They can give knicks a second round pick and only have to pay 7mil of his salary.

Thats why.

Its an asset.

That makes sense, but the article makes it seem like the Knicks would be giving a pick in addition to STAT.

It also doesn't say they will be penalized for actually having so much cap space avail, it will just get split up amongst the players on the roster.

I'm not giving up Aamre for no 2nd round pick in a weak weak 2015 nba draft, that crazy and stupid.

So, does that mean that if Philly had to spend that minimum and it got split among players on the roster, that those players could arguably receive more than the maximum permitted under their rookie scale contracts?

EwingsGlass wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

Nalod wrote:Knicks say are out of any playoff contention and PHilly needs to make their cap or be penalized.

They can give knicks a second round pick and only have to pay 7mil of his salary.

Thats why.

Its an asset.

That makes sense, but the article makes it seem like the Knicks would be giving a pick in addition to STAT.

It also doesn't say they will be penalized for actually having so much cap space avail, it will just get split up amongst the players on the roster.

I'm not giving up Aamre for no 2nd round pick in a weak weak 2015 nba draft, that crazy and stupid.

So, does that mean that if Philly had to spend that minimum and it got split among players on the roster, that those players could arguably receive more than the maximum permitted under their rookie scale contracts?

The players split the difference no matter it it puts them above their maximum allowed. I guess there is an exception for this situation. Maybe it's considered a bonus and not salary? I do know Philly was below the salary "floor" last season and had to pay out money to each player.

H1AND1 wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

Nalod wrote:Knicks say are out of any playoff contention and PHilly needs to make their cap or be penalized.

They can give knicks a second round pick and only have to pay 7mil of his salary.

Thats why.

Its an asset.

That makes sense, but the article makes it seem like the Knicks would be giving a pick in addition to STAT.

It also doesn't say they will be penalized for actually having so much cap space avail, it will just get split up amongst the players on the roster.

I'm not giving up Aamre for no 2nd round pick in a weak weak 2015 nba draft, that crazy and stupid.

So, does that mean that if Philly had to spend that minimum and it got split among players on the roster, that those players could arguably receive more than the maximum permitted under their rookie scale contracts?

The players split the difference no matter it it puts them above their maximum allowed. I guess there is an exception for this situation. Maybe it's considered a bonus and not salary? I do know Philly was below the salary "floor" last season and had to pay out money to each player.

so exactly how does it encourage teams from reaching that cap space goal.

TripleThreat wrote:

H1AND1 wrote:Why would the Knicks trade Amare at the cost of a pick or asset at the deadline when his salary is expiring at the end of the year anyway. Is it just me or does that seem colossally dumb? I know the Knicks have made some stupid moves over the years but this would take the cake. I guess in the late summer reporters have to concoct ridiculous stories out of boredom.

My guess is trading Amare, despite being able to let him walk as a free agent at the end of the season, will ensure the Knicks are not going be into the luxury tax zone for a third straight year, thus "resetting" their potential repeater tax clock. (My understanding is the NBA's timeline for a fiscal year resets each July 1st. ( Thus unlike the NFL and MLB, a season isn't the 2014 season, it's the 2013-2014 season) ) By avoiding the tax zone this upcoming season, they can break the threshold the next two years and then hit the three out of four years mark for being a luxury tax payer, right on the edge, but not into the repeater zone.

For an incoming team, STAT would help them hit the salary floor and still gain his Bird Rights, which are then trade worthy ( as worthy as STAT would have as a 5th big on a much reduced contract) That means a team with little to no cap space could trade for STAT, and then go over the cap to have his contract on the books. IMHO, he's not a frontline starter anymore, but as a back of the roster big, he might have a use for a contender who needs a little 2nd/3rd unit scoring. As a raw free agent, a team would have to use it's precious open cap space to sign him.

Packaging him with someone like Prigioni (as the asset) would clear Prigs contract off the books as well.

With a likely labor war in 2017, my guess is the owners don't want a team under the cap floor, which will only incite the players union and be a point of contention as to why the players shouldn't cave yet again. My guess also is Philly under the salary floor will also open up questions about draft and the NBA draft lottery reform. While the owners compete, they also have a vested interest in protecting each other as long as that protection extends to the entire ownership body.

Great points. The article quoted takes a paragraph from an article on Basketball Insiders. The writer speculated that the Sixers would want Amare at the deadline so that they were only responsible for 7 mil of his contract. It would bump the Sixers pay roll over the 63 mil mark they need to be at but would save them about 20 mil. Works well for both teams.

This idea benefits the Knicks only to avoid the repeater tax. Benefits Philly none.

knickscity wrote:This idea benefits the Knicks only to avoid the repeater tax. Benefits Philly none.

The thread I started on this got locked but I posted a link to the actual article quoted. The article did not mention the benefits TT talked about for the Knicks. It only talked about the Sixers and how they need to have their pay roll at at least 63 mil or they would have to pay out bonuses to their players totaling the amount needed to get to that 63 mil mark. If they trade for Amare at the deadline, it bumps their cap number over 63 mil but they only have to pay Amare the remaining 7 mil owed on his contract at the time. It saves the Sixers about 20 mil that they would have to pay out in bonus money.

knickscity wrote:This idea benefits the Knicks only to avoid the repeater tax. Benefits Philly none.

Pick in the end probably gets sent their way

Tax concerns have always been real

The whole "it's Dolan's money and not yours"

Was never viable to marrying rationale

This is why you don't do Bargnani trades[factoring other reasons too]

This is why you don't give J.R. Smith a multi-yr deal

knickscity wrote:This idea benefits the Knicks only to avoid the repeater tax. Benefits Philly none.

It saves the Sixers 16 million if they trade for Stat at the deadline.

CrushAlot wrote:

knickscity wrote:This idea benefits the Knicks only to avoid the repeater tax. Benefits Philly none.

It saves the Sixers 16 million if they trade for Stat at the deadline.

Actually it costs them $7 million.

babyKnicks wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

knickscity wrote:This idea benefits the Knicks only to avoid the repeater tax. Benefits Philly none.

It saves the Sixers 16 million if they trade for Stat at the deadline.

Actually it costs them $7 million.

If they don't make a move like that they have to pay out 24 mil in bonuses because their cap number is 39 mil. So paying 7 mil instead of 24 mil makes sense.

I'm bumping this in the aftermath of the cavs trade finally going through.....

Boston has 20 guys under contract. Would they take Amare off my team for a year and get him picking and rolling with Rondo as some sort of plan B since they lost out on Love?

I would still make that trade bass/thorton and either Green or Wallace for Amare.....If we could flip thorton to another team like maybe Philly, who could obsorb his contract, that would make me happy.

EnySpree wrote:I'm bumping this in the aftermath of the cavs trade finally going through.....

Boston has 20 guys under contract. Would they take Amare off my team for a year and get him picking and rolling with Rondo as some sort of plan B since they lost out on Love?

I would still make that trade bass/thorton and either Green or Wallace for Amare.....If we could flip thorton to another team like maybe Philly, who could obsorb his contract, that would make me happy.

I'd rather wait until next offseason and sign someone better than Wallace and Green

smackeddog wrote:

EnySpree wrote:I'm bumping this in the aftermath of the cavs trade finally going through.....

Boston has 20 guys under contract. Would they take Amare off my team for a year and get him picking and rolling with Rondo as some sort of plan B since they lost out on Love?

I would still make that trade bass/thorton and either Green or Wallace for Amare.....If we could flip thorton to another team like maybe Philly, who could obsorb his contract, that would make me happy.

I'd rather wait until next offseason and sign someone better than Wallace and Green

This is like an Abbott and Costello joke