Knicks · I can see no way that the Knicks are much better than last season because point guard change. Convince me or agree (page 12)

jrodmc wrote:

dk7th wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:
Why is Lin even being discussed in this particular thread. he has been gone for a couple years now. I was a big fan of the Linsanity streak he was on when we had all those injuries. However i have moved on because as a Knick fan we have our own issues with our team so Lin doesnt really matter anymore

+1. The Lin mentions correspond to the kNugget mentions, which, thankfully are actually starting to die down. Until Moz has another good game. Or Gallo makes another behind the back pass. Or the Mayor hits another three.

God help us if Felton has a 12 assist game for Dallas.

Always remember, pessimism/Melohate does not need to be justified on a Knick fan site.

Thats not what i meant. Not eveything has to turn into accusations of melo hate or gallo/lin/wilson chandler love. All those gusy did a great job as knicks and i wish them well but im more concerned with the Knicks.

I understand that wasn't your point, but if you notice, most threads in here turn into Melo hate, why the Trade was a filthy mess, why we will never be SanTone or OKC because of Melo, Geewhiz aint those guys we traded away/Melo drove away great....blah blah blah.

Like you said, it's been years.

Why does it bother you that much what a few posters say about Melo? I mean its ok to be a big fan of his but most people have actually made fair points about Melo's strengths and weaknesses. Persnally i think the whole Melo hate accusations is overblown. Our fanbase is a great one and at the end of the day EVERYONE roots for melo and the knicks to win

You ask me why when you asked the same question at the start of this post? SMH
I don't count posters, I read the posts. Lots of them.

Agreed, it's always been a somber few who spout off. As you've noticed, they make the most noise.

EVERYONE doesn't root for melo. There are some who hope the Knicks lose every game with Melo. Your blanket rah rah may apply at MSG during a game, but it doesn't apply in here. Now why does that bother me?, I just don't know.

how do you know that, houdini

Check the game picker from last season for your little friend, genius.

it shows TKF was objective and often right. What were your gamepicker results?

dk7th wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

dk7th wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:
Why is Lin even being discussed in this particular thread. he has been gone for a couple years now. I was a big fan of the Linsanity streak he was on when we had all those injuries. However i have moved on because as a Knick fan we have our own issues with our team so Lin doesnt really matter anymore

+1. The Lin mentions correspond to the kNugget mentions, which, thankfully are actually starting to die down. Until Moz has another good game. Or Gallo makes another behind the back pass. Or the Mayor hits another three.

God help us if Felton has a 12 assist game for Dallas.

Always remember, pessimism/Melohate does not need to be justified on a Knick fan site.

Thats not what i meant. Not eveything has to turn into accusations of melo hate or gallo/lin/wilson chandler love. All those gusy did a great job as knicks and i wish them well but im more concerned with the Knicks.

I understand that wasn't your point, but if you notice, most threads in here turn into Melo hate, why the Trade was a filthy mess, why we will never be SanTone or OKC because of Melo, Geewhiz aint those guys we traded away/Melo drove away great....blah blah blah.

Like you said, it's been years.

Why does it bother you that much what a few posters say about Melo? I mean its ok to be a big fan of his but most people have actually made fair points about Melo's strengths and weaknesses. Persnally i think the whole Melo hate accusations is overblown. Our fanbase is a great one and at the end of the day EVERYONE roots for melo and the knicks to win

You ask me why when you asked the same question at the start of this post? SMH
I don't count posters, I read the posts. Lots of them.

Agreed, it's always been a somber few who spout off. As you've noticed, they make the most noise.

EVERYONE doesn't root for melo. There are some who hope the Knicks lose every game with Melo. Your blanket rah rah may apply at MSG during a game, but it doesn't apply in here. Now why does that bother me?, I just don't know.

how do you know that, houdini

Houdini was the escape artist- I think you mean Nostradamus

you need to bone up on your blues material, junior

I was referring to the 1870s basketball blues guitarist Nostrodamus

smackeddog wrote:

dk7th wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

dk7th wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:
Why is Lin even being discussed in this particular thread. he has been gone for a couple years now. I was a big fan of the Linsanity streak he was on when we had all those injuries. However i have moved on because as a Knick fan we have our own issues with our team so Lin doesnt really matter anymore

+1. The Lin mentions correspond to the kNugget mentions, which, thankfully are actually starting to die down. Until Moz has another good game. Or Gallo makes another behind the back pass. Or the Mayor hits another three.

God help us if Felton has a 12 assist game for Dallas.

Always remember, pessimism/Melohate does not need to be justified on a Knick fan site.

Thats not what i meant. Not eveything has to turn into accusations of melo hate or gallo/lin/wilson chandler love. All those gusy did a great job as knicks and i wish them well but im more concerned with the Knicks.

I understand that wasn't your point, but if you notice, most threads in here turn into Melo hate, why the Trade was a filthy mess, why we will never be SanTone or OKC because of Melo, Geewhiz aint those guys we traded away/Melo drove away great....blah blah blah.

Like you said, it's been years.

Why does it bother you that much what a few posters say about Melo? I mean its ok to be a big fan of his but most people have actually made fair points about Melo's strengths and weaknesses. Persnally i think the whole Melo hate accusations is overblown. Our fanbase is a great one and at the end of the day EVERYONE roots for melo and the knicks to win

You ask me why when you asked the same question at the start of this post? SMH
I don't count posters, I read the posts. Lots of them.

Agreed, it's always been a somber few who spout off. As you've noticed, they make the most noise.

EVERYONE doesn't root for melo. There are some who hope the Knicks lose every game with Melo. Your blanket rah rah may apply at MSG during a game, but it doesn't apply in here. Now why does that bother me?, I just don't know.

how do you know that, houdini

Houdini was the escape artist- I think you mean Nostradamus

you need to bone up on your blues material, junior

I was referring to the 1870s basketball blues guitarist Nostrodamus

ah ok-- i forgot all about him. my bad.

foosballnick wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:
Why is Lin even being discussed in this particular thread. he has been gone for a couple years now. I was a big fan of the Linsanity streak he was on when we had all those injuries. However i have moved on because as a Knick fan we have our own issues with our team so Lin doesnt really matter anymore

+1. The Lin mentions correspond to the kNugget mentions, which, thankfully are actually starting to die down. Until Moz has another good game. Or Gallo makes another behind the back pass. Or the Mayor hits another three.

God help us if Felton has a 12 assist game for Dallas.

Always remember, pessimism/Melohate does not need to be justified on a Knick fan site.

Thats not what i meant. Not eveything has to turn into accusations of melo hate or gallo/lin/wilson chandler love. All those gusy did a great job as knicks and i wish them well but im more concerned with the Knicks.

I understand that wasn't your point, but if you notice, most threads in here turn into Melo hate, why the Trade was a filthy mess, why we will never be SanTone or OKC because of Melo, Geewhiz aint those guys we traded away/Melo drove away great....blah blah blah.

Like you said, it's been years.

Why does it bother you that much what a few posters say about Melo? I mean its ok to be a big fan of his but most people have actually made fair points about Melo's strengths and weaknesses. Persnally i think the whole Melo hate accusations is overblown. Our fanbase is a great one and at the end of the day EVERYONE roots for melo and the knicks to win

I have no problem with people discussing his flaws- if truth be told I'm pretty indifferent towards him, its the crossing-the-line level of hate that riles me, and the fact that it's just the same crap over and over again- even if I agreed with the message I'd get frustrated hearing exactly the same thing being pumped out each and every day.

What specifically is being said about him

On a daily basis that's unjustified

Can you start citing examples

Otherwise this looks like an attempt to either

Censor opinions, to incite in hopes of a TOS violation

So the mods cans surface to make an account vanish

Most of the offseason discussion has centered around Calderon and Felton

Yet the "Stop Hating Melo" chants continue to roar like a Lion in the Serengeti

If you weren't so busy trying to post in Hiaku structure, you might actually take the time to read the board. Almost every thread devolves into an argument about the Villification or Merits of Melo.

In this thread for instance, if you go back to the first page, you will find that

Triple Threat

was the ignitor with these comments about Melo.......

The Knicks made the wrong choice. The best choice was keeping Lin, letting him be the primary player and trading Melo for supporting assets. Instead the Knicks are saddled with a guy who has shown money to come here and money to stay here means more than winning.

wow such shocking revelations, it only shows how selfish and dumb both Dolan and Melo are to need to have to spend that much and infuse this front office to see that)

you can't contend with Melo as your primary player, he's just not a player who has ever shown to function well in a team ball environment ( please leave the ALL STAR Team USA situation out of it, as if that's a practical example of what most NBA teams need to do to win)

These types of subjective/opinion comments on a player's integrity (especially the first two) really serve no useful purpose on a message board except to bate/flame other posters into a polarized response. While Melo is certainly a polarizing figure within the Knicks fandom, I think what the posters above are referring to is that if the discussion remained about what Melo can or can't do on the court.....rather than subjective opinions regarding how selfish and dumb he is......perhaps every thread would not turn into a Melohate/Melolove soap opera.

So in an 11 page thread you find the 4-5 posts

Out of maybe 200+

And paint the whole Canvas

With everyone hates Melo talk

What a preposterous reach here

TeamBall wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:
Why is Lin even being discussed in this particular thread. he has been gone for a couple years now. I was a big fan of the Linsanity streak he was on when we had all those injuries. However i have moved on because as a Knick fan we have our own issues with our team so Lin doesnt really matter anymore

+1. The Lin mentions correspond to the kNugget mentions, which, thankfully are actually starting to die down. Until Moz has another good game. Or Gallo makes another behind the back pass. Or the Mayor hits another three.

God help us if Felton has a 12 assist game for Dallas.

Always remember, pessimism/Melohate does not need to be justified on a Knick fan site.

Thats not what i meant. Not eveything has to turn into accusations of melo hate or gallo/lin/wilson chandler love. All those gusy did a great job as knicks and i wish them well but im more concerned with the Knicks.

I understand that wasn't your point, but if you notice, most threads in here turn into Melo hate, why the Trade was a filthy mess, why we will never be SanTone or OKC because of Melo, Geewhiz aint those guys we traded away/Melo drove away great....blah blah blah.

Like you said, it's been years.

Why does it bother you that much what a few posters say about Melo? I mean its ok to be a big fan of his but most people have actually made fair points about Melo's strengths and weaknesses. Persnally i think the whole Melo hate accusations is overblown. Our fanbase is a great one and at the end of the day EVERYONE roots for melo and the knicks to win

+1

Why is he not allowed to disagree with the negativity just like you two disagree with a lot of the positivity?

Disagreeing is great. Throwing around comments like you guys are "haters" who "want the team to lose" is a whole different story.

Bonn1997 wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:
Why is Lin even being discussed in this particular thread. he has been gone for a couple years now. I was a big fan of the Linsanity streak he was on when we had all those injuries. However i have moved on because as a Knick fan we have our own issues with our team so Lin doesnt really matter anymore

+1. The Lin mentions correspond to the kNugget mentions, which, thankfully are actually starting to die down. Until Moz has another good game. Or Gallo makes another behind the back pass. Or the Mayor hits another three.

God help us if Felton has a 12 assist game for Dallas.

Always remember, pessimism/Melohate does not need to be justified on a Knick fan site.

Thats not what i meant. Not eveything has to turn into accusations of melo hate or gallo/lin/wilson chandler love. All those gusy did a great job as knicks and i wish them well but im more concerned with the Knicks.

I understand that wasn't your point, but if you notice, most threads in here turn into Melo hate, why the Trade was a filthy mess, why we will never be SanTone or OKC because of Melo, Geewhiz aint those guys we traded away/Melo drove away great....blah blah blah.

Like you said, it's been years.

Why does it bother you that much what a few posters say about Melo? I mean its ok to be a big fan of his but most people have actually made fair points about Melo's strengths and weaknesses. Persnally i think the whole Melo hate accusations is overblown. Our fanbase is a great one and at the end of the day EVERYONE roots for melo and the knicks to win

+1

Why is he not allowed to disagree with the negativity just like you two disagree with a lot of the positivity?

Disagreeing is great. Throwing around comments like you guys are "haters" who "want the team to lose" is a whole different story.

And in that story jrod referenced a specific instance where someone picked the knicks to lose every game. Even during he isiah years I didn't think we'd lose every game

F500ONE wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:
Why is Lin even being discussed in this particular thread. he has been gone for a couple years now. I was a big fan of the Linsanity streak he was on when we had all those injuries. However i have moved on because as a Knick fan we have our own issues with our team so Lin doesnt really matter anymore

+1. The Lin mentions correspond to the kNugget mentions, which, thankfully are actually starting to die down. Until Moz has another good game. Or Gallo makes another behind the back pass. Or the Mayor hits another three.

God help us if Felton has a 12 assist game for Dallas.

Always remember, pessimism/Melohate does not need to be justified on a Knick fan site.

Thats not what i meant. Not eveything has to turn into accusations of melo hate or gallo/lin/wilson chandler love. All those gusy did a great job as knicks and i wish them well but im more concerned with the Knicks.

I understand that wasn't your point, but if you notice, most threads in here turn into Melo hate, why the Trade was a filthy mess, why we will never be SanTone or OKC because of Melo, Geewhiz aint those guys we traded away/Melo drove away great....blah blah blah.

Like you said, it's been years.

Why does it bother you that much what a few posters say about Melo? I mean its ok to be a big fan of his but most people have actually made fair points about Melo's strengths and weaknesses. Persnally i think the whole Melo hate accusations is overblown. Our fanbase is a great one and at the end of the day EVERYONE roots for melo and the knicks to win

I have no problem with people discussing his flaws- if truth be told I'm pretty indifferent towards him, its the crossing-the-line level of hate that riles me, and the fact that it's just the same crap over and over again- even if I agreed with the message I'd get frustrated hearing exactly the same thing being pumped out each and every day.

What specifically is being said about him

On a daily basis that's unjustified

Can you start citing examples

Otherwise this looks like an attempt to either

Censor opinions, to incite in hopes of a TOS violation

So the mods cans surface to make an account vanish

Most of the offseason discussion has centered around Calderon and Felton

Yet the "Stop Hating Melo" chants continue to roar like a Lion in the Serengeti

If you weren't so busy trying to post in Hiaku structure, you might actually take the time to read the board. Almost every thread devolves into an argument about the Villification or Merits of Melo.

In this thread for instance, if you go back to the first page, you will find that

Triple Threat

was the ignitor with these comments about Melo.......

The Knicks made the wrong choice. The best choice was keeping Lin, letting him be the primary player and trading Melo for supporting assets. Instead the Knicks are saddled with a guy who has shown money to come here and money to stay here means more than winning.

wow such shocking revelations, it only shows how selfish and dumb both Dolan and Melo are to need to have to spend that much and infuse this front office to see that)

you can't contend with Melo as your primary player, he's just not a player who has ever shown to function well in a team ball environment ( please leave the ALL STAR Team USA situation out of it, as if that's a practical example of what most NBA teams need to do to win)

These types of subjective/opinion comments on a player's integrity (especially the first two) really serve no useful purpose on a message board except to bate/flame other posters into a polarized response. While Melo is certainly a polarizing figure within the Knicks fandom, I think what the posters above are referring to is that if the discussion remained about what Melo can or can't do on the court.....rather than subjective opinions regarding how selfish and dumb he is......perhaps every thread would not turn into a Melohate/Melolove soap opera.

So in an 11 page thread you find the 4-5 posts

Out of maybe 200+

And paint the whole Canvas

With everyone hates Melo talk

What a preposterous reach here

Exactly the crap I don't get and really drags the board down

gunsnewing wrote:
Exactly the crap I don't get and really drags the board down

Says the court jester of this board who continually makes silly/provacative one-line statements and consistently mentions that he is going to take his ball and go home by rooting for another team........seemingly just to illicit reaction. LOL. No I mean really....LOL.

foosballnick wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:
Exactly the crap I don't get and really drags the board down

Says the court jester of this board who continually makes silly/provacative one-line statements and consistently mentions that he is going to take his ball and go home by rooting for another team........seemingly just to illicit reaction. LOL. No I mean really....LOL.

You're funny Foos

F500ONE wrote:

What specifically is being said about him

On a daily basis that's unjustified

Can you start citing examples

Otherwise this looks like an attempt to either

Censor opinions, to incite in hopes of a TOS violation

So the mods cans surface to make an account vanish

Most of the offseason discussion has centered around Calderon and Felton

Yet the "Stop Hating Melo" chants continue to roar like a Lion in the Serengeti

If you weren't so busy trying to post in Hiaku structure, you might actually take the time to read the board. Almost every thread devolves into an argument about the Villification or Merits of Melo.

In this thread for instance, if you go back to the first page, you will find that

Triple Threat

was the ignitor with these comments about Melo.......

The Knicks made the wrong choice. The best choice was keeping Lin, letting him be the primary player and trading Melo for supporting assets. Instead the Knicks are saddled with a guy who has shown money to come here and money to stay here means more than winning.

wow such shocking revelations, it only shows how selfish and dumb both Dolan and Melo are to need to have to spend that much and infuse this front office to see that)

you can't contend with Melo as your primary player, he's just not a player who has ever shown to function well in a team ball environment ( please leave the ALL STAR Team USA situation out of it, as if that's a practical example of what most NBA teams need to do to win)

These types of subjective/opinion comments on a player's integrity (especially the first two) really serve no useful purpose on a message board except to bate/flame other posters into a polarized response. While Melo is certainly a polarizing figure within the Knicks fandom, I think what the posters above are referring to is that if the discussion remained about what Melo can or can't do on the court.....rather than subjective opinions regarding how selfish and dumb he is......perhaps every thread would not turn into a Melohate/Melolove soap opera.

So in an 11 page thread you find the 4-5 posts

Out of maybe 200+

And paint the whole Canvas

With everyone hates Melo talk

What a preposterous reach here

I originally thought you were just playing mind fvck games with this board by posting in a silly format, but now I'm beginning to think that you're really not bright enough to carry out a compound thought process.

Let me spell it out for you. The original Melo bating post was on the first page and illicited enough reactions to help build this thread into 11 pages....that is on top of the bating posts that you were consistenly pumping out complaining about Nixluva's postive posts.

foosballnick wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

What specifically is being said about him

On a daily basis that's unjustified

Can you start citing examples

Otherwise this looks like an attempt to either

Censor opinions, to incite in hopes of a TOS violation

So the mods cans surface to make an account vanish

Most of the offseason discussion has centered around Calderon and Felton

Yet the "Stop Hating Melo" chants continue to roar like a Lion in the Serengeti

If you weren't so busy trying to post in Hiaku structure, you might actually take the time to read the board. Almost every thread devolves into an argument about the Villification or Merits of Melo.

In this thread for instance, if you go back to the first page, you will find that
Triple Threat was the ignitor with these comments about Melo.......

The Knicks made the wrong choice. The best choice was keeping Lin, letting him be the primary player and trading Melo for supporting assets. Instead the Knicks are saddled with a guy who has shown money to come here and money to stay here means more than winning.

wow such shocking revelations, it only shows how selfish and dumb both Dolan and Melo are to need to have to spend that much and infuse this front office to see that)

you can't contend with Melo as your primary player, he's just not a player who has ever shown to function well in a team ball environment ( please leave the ALL STAR Team USA situation out of it, as if that's a practical example of what most NBA teams need to do to win)

These types of subjective/opinion comments on a player's integrity (especially the first two) really serve no useful purpose on a message board except to bate/flame other posters into a polarized response. While Melo is certainly a polarizing figure within the Knicks fandom, I think what the posters above are referring to is that if the discussion remained about what Melo can or can't do on the court.....rather than subjective opinions regarding how selfish and dumb he is......perhaps every thread would not turn into a Melohate/Melolove soap opera.

So in an 11 page thread you find the 4-5 posts

Out of maybe 200+

And paint the whole Canvas

With everyone hates Melo talk

What a preposterous reach here

I originally thought you were just playing mind fvck games with this board by posting in a silly format, but now I'm beginning to think that you're really not bright enough to carry out a compound thought process.

Let me spell it out for you. The original Melo bating post was on the first page and illicited enough reactions to help build this thread into 11 pages....that is on top of the bating posts that you were consistenly pumping out complaining about Nixluva's postive posts.

It's pretty apparent you didn't follow

This thread close enough

My first few replies weren't even directed at Nix

And weren't about Melo

Triple Threat made an initial post

Covering many things with a little Melo dig

The anxiety levels starting gushing forth

Like molten lava from a volcano

Me bait Nix really///// here's where Nix came in

Following an exchange from me, Fitzfarm, Gustav

http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topi...

You can't dismiss stats when it doesn't suit the fancy

That's not baiting, it's highlighting a flaw in debating a topic

Triple Threat got a couple co-signs at best

And that was that, Epic embellishment by you

RonRon wrote:it is never by one player, especially when not in Lebron/Jordan/Durant/Kobe or Hakeem/Shaq/Duncan etc type talent
You still need a TEAM and a collection of talents, even a YOUNG KOBE needed a YOUNG SHAQ or a versatile Pau Gasol/Odom/Ariza and a TOP 3 Center at the time in Bynum in order to be contenders
Prior to that, he was scoring 82 points, multiple 50pt games, and The Laker's were still losing
So he appreciated Phil Jackson's triangle/coaching much more after that, realizing as good as he was, he still needs his team mates to play well and he needs to be able to LEAD them there

With Calderon, he could play both PG/SG effectively as a floor spacer/facilitator
Unlike Pablo, he actually could penetrate and finish a bit, though it isn't his strength
Like Pablo, he also knows how to RUN a team both on and off the court, playing with and off the ball *skills that players tend to not develop in this new generation* , and because of that I see Calderon as a huge upgrade, able to help develop our young guns and possibly a PG of our future, hoping we can attain Tony Wroten to either be that player or be the 6th man role at both PG and SG

He is a combo guard but actually has PG skills already, with great speed/quickness/strength/athleticism/handle to go with his ability to penetrate and finish, run a team, and facilitate
I can see Calderon helping the development of Larkin in the meantime, possible to boost him up and dump him to gain more value/cap space
Phil Jackson always has prefferred size at the PG position with the likes of

Ron Harper *who I wanted to be part of our development squad since he was part of the Bulls and Laker's Championship rings*
Brian Shaw *who I still want as our lead assistant over Kurt Rhambis when his contract runs out, he simply doesn't have the talent to run the Triangle, hoping he gets released and joins our staff*

Though he did also have versatile skilled talents G/F's playing the point like

Jordan/Pippen/Kukoc

Kobe/Odom/Gasol/Walton *Ariza's versatility on both ends, playing anywhere from SG to PF on OFF, and defending 4 positions at any given time at his prime*

In Chicago he had players like Kerr/Paxson, Jud Buchler

On the Laker's he had players like Shasha Vucevec, Farmer, and Fisher *who was never a good penetrator but a very good shooter and facilitated well, despite not being physical talented as others*

The Triangle itself, will present players with OPEN 3pters, easy baskets, and great floor spacing, though he had DOMINANT/EFFICIENT scorers to play OFF of their stars
Players like Robert Horry/Kerr and out players must develop their open shot

We are looking to build chemistry, develop talents, develop coaching, and acquire talent/assets in the mean time, while builiding that "winning culture"
It takes time, even Kobe/Shaq took time at their primes, but after their core including Gasol/Odom understood it, they perfected it and execucted it very well

We simply are not there yet
We didn't even assemble the roster yet, after assembling roster, we still need to acquire the role players/ like Horry's/Kerr's/Jud Buchler/Brian Williams/Lonley etc
It takes time, patience, and lots of work ahead of us, along with mastering the system with those players/talents and building chemistry

I would not mind dumping his contract in a year or 2 though especially if he we acquire Wroten and future PG's, and is shown the ropes by Calderon
His contract could be used to match salaries, after paying CA that type of money, we need to find cheap yet talented players to compensate while being able to match up vs Cleveland/Bulls/Bobcats/Wizards/Toronto in the East, Pacer's if Paul George is able to recover, if not they are cursed with the Knick's

Lets say we resign Kmart on unguaranteed contract, along with fillers, 2015 and 2018 1st rounders, other assets, and persue Noah/Durant in trades, with CA recruitment to NYK!
Just like Lebron reached out to Kevin Love, uniting Uncle Drew with Wes, Lebron *Sprite, so can't make a commercial with Nate RObinson too*

With Noah, another injury to Derrick Rose and it could happen, as Noah would realize he doesn't have many great years left
With Durant, maybe another injury or headbunt with Westbrook, horrible coaching in Brooks, or lacking funds in OKC to not support and willingly go over the tax to build a contender

They would need to WANT to come to NYK and push the issue though
IT COULD HAPPEN!

your post presumes that carmelo anthony can excel in the triangle and actually make others better almost by default because the system will force better decisions from him, since he makes others around him worse just like bryant did. that said, we have heard how frequently the "uncoachable" bryant had departed and basically freelanced.... i think it assumes a lot that we will be seeing anthony subsume his game, especially at 24 million+ per year.

foosballnick wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:
Why is Lin even being discussed in this particular thread. he has been gone for a couple years now. I was a big fan of the Linsanity streak he was on when we had all those injuries. However i have moved on because as a Knick fan we have our own issues with our team so Lin doesnt really matter anymore

+1. The Lin mentions correspond to the kNugget mentions, which, thankfully are actually starting to die down. Until Moz has another good game. Or Gallo makes another behind the back pass. Or the Mayor hits another three.

God help us if Felton has a 12 assist game for Dallas.

Always remember, pessimism/Melohate does not need to be justified on a Knick fan site.

Thats not what i meant. Not eveything has to turn into accusations of melo hate or gallo/lin/wilson chandler love. All those gusy did a great job as knicks and i wish them well but im more concerned with the Knicks.

I understand that wasn't your point, but if you notice, most threads in here turn into Melo hate, why the Trade was a filthy mess, why we will never be SanTone or OKC because of Melo, Geewhiz aint those guys we traded away/Melo drove away great....blah blah blah.

Like you said, it's been years.

Why does it bother you that much what a few posters say about Melo? I mean its ok to be a big fan of his but most people have actually made fair points about Melo's strengths and weaknesses. Persnally i think the whole Melo hate accusations is overblown. Our fanbase is a great one and at the end of the day EVERYONE roots for melo and the knicks to win

I have no problem with people discussing his flaws- if truth be told I'm pretty indifferent towards him, its the crossing-the-line level of hate that riles me, and the fact that it's just the same crap over and over again- even if I agreed with the message I'd get frustrated hearing exactly the same thing being pumped out each and every day.

What specifically is being said about him

On a daily basis that's unjustified

Can you start citing examples

Otherwise this looks like an attempt to either

Censor opinions, to incite in hopes of a TOS violation

So the mods cans surface to make an account vanish

Most of the offseason discussion has centered around Calderon and Felton

Yet the "Stop Hating Melo" chants continue to roar like a Lion in the Serengeti

If you weren't so busy trying to post in Hiaku structure, you might actually take the time to read the board. Almost every thread devolves into an argument about the Villification or Merits of Melo.

In this thread for instance, if you go back to the first page, you will find that

Triple Threat

was the ignitor with these comments about Melo.......

The Knicks made the wrong choice. The best choice was keeping Lin, letting him be the primary player and trading Melo for supporting assets. Instead the Knicks are saddled with a guy who has shown money to come here and money to stay here means more than winning.

wow such shocking revelations, it only shows how selfish and dumb both Dolan and Melo are to need to have to spend that much and infuse this front office to see that)

you can't contend with Melo as your primary player, he's just not a player who has ever shown to function well in a team ball environment ( please leave the ALL STAR Team USA situation out of it, as if that's a practical example of what most NBA teams need to do to win)

These types of subjective/opinion comments on a player's integrity (especially the first two) really serve no useful purpose on a message board except to bate/flame other posters into a polarized response. While Melo is certainly a polarizing figure within the Knicks fandom, I think what the posters above are referring to is that if the discussion remained about what Melo can or can't do on the court.....rather than subjective opinions regarding how selfish and dumb he is......perhaps every thread would not turn into a Melohate/Melolove soap opera.

Triple Threat is over the top with the Lin stuff.

Lin played the game the right way. Lin invested and pushed for team ball. Lin lead, not because his contract size said so, but because winning meant more than anything else. He didn't need a 60 million dollar GM to tell him that. He didn't need over a decade in the league to get into shape. He didn't run to his agent and strongarm the franchise to cull off anyone else who had the gall to play well and get more attention than him.

This is just too much. Lin fired his agent, hired a high powered guy that immediately said Lin might not return to the Knicks. Lin chose to sit out instead of participating on the USA Select Team to protect his free agency. And he signed a 'poison pill' that almost guaranteed he would not return. The guy is the fifth highest paid point guard in the league and the 24th highest paid player in the league. I have no issue with Lin getting the max he was able to but lets not pretend that he is above the dollar and all about winning. He cashed in on his moment. Two years later he was backing up an undrafted free agent.

gunsnewing wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

dk7th wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:
Why is Lin even being discussed in this particular thread. he has been gone for a couple years now. I was a big fan of the Linsanity streak he was on when we had all those injuries. However i have moved on because as a Knick fan we have our own issues with our team so Lin doesnt really matter anymore

+1. The Lin mentions correspond to the kNugget mentions, which, thankfully are actually starting to die down. Until Moz has another good game. Or Gallo makes another behind the back pass. Or the Mayor hits another three.

God help us if Felton has a 12 assist game for Dallas.

Always remember, pessimism/Melohate does not need to be justified on a Knick fan site.

Thats not what i meant. Not eveything has to turn into accusations of melo hate or gallo/lin/wilson chandler love. All those gusy did a great job as knicks and i wish them well but im more concerned with the Knicks.

I understand that wasn't your point, but if you notice, most threads in here turn into Melo hate, why the Trade was a filthy mess, why we will never be SanTone or OKC because of Melo, Geewhiz aint those guys we traded away/Melo drove away great....blah blah blah.

Like you said, it's been years.

Why does it bother you that much what a few posters say about Melo? I mean its ok to be a big fan of his but most people have actually made fair points about Melo's strengths and weaknesses. Persnally i think the whole Melo hate accusations is overblown. Our fanbase is a great one and at the end of the day EVERYONE roots for melo and the knicks to win

You ask me why when you asked the same question at the start of this post? SMH
I don't count posters, I read the posts. Lots of them.

Agreed, it's always been a somber few who spout off. As you've noticed, they make the most noise.

EVERYONE doesn't root for melo. There are some who hope the Knicks lose every game with Melo. Your blanket rah rah may apply at MSG during a game, but it doesn't apply in here. Now why does that bother me?, I just don't know.

how do you know that, houdini

Check the game picker from last season for your little friend, genius.

it shows TKF was objective and often right. What were your gamepicker results?

way to go, houdini!

Bonn1997 wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:
Why is Lin even being discussed in this particular thread. he has been gone for a couple years now. I was a big fan of the Linsanity streak he was on when we had all those injuries. However i have moved on because as a Knick fan we have our own issues with our team so Lin doesnt really matter anymore

+1. The Lin mentions correspond to the kNugget mentions, which, thankfully are actually starting to die down. Until Moz has another good game. Or Gallo makes another behind the back pass. Or the Mayor hits another three.

God help us if Felton has a 12 assist game for Dallas.

Always remember, pessimism/Melohate does not need to be justified on a Knick fan site.

Thats not what i meant. Not eveything has to turn into accusations of melo hate or gallo/lin/wilson chandler love. All those gusy did a great job as knicks and i wish them well but im more concerned with the Knicks.

I understand that wasn't your point, but if you notice, most threads in here turn into Melo hate, why the Trade was a filthy mess, why we will never be SanTone or OKC because of Melo, Geewhiz aint those guys we traded away/Melo drove away great....blah blah blah.

Like you said, it's been years.

Why does it bother you that much what a few posters say about Melo? I mean its ok to be a big fan of his but most people have actually made fair points about Melo's strengths and weaknesses. Persnally i think the whole Melo hate accusations is overblown. Our fanbase is a great one and at the end of the day EVERYONE roots for melo and the knicks to win

+1

Why is he not allowed to disagree with the negativity just like you two disagree with a lot of the positivity?

Disagreeing is great. Throwing around comments like you guys are "haters" who "want the team to lose" is a whole different story.

Pointing out "facts" like "Melo is a DOUCHE" and posters who pick the Knicks to go 0-82 because they can't stand Melo and his 16th century bully ball game is a whole different story? Bonn, you never read any of this type of stuff before, I'm making it all up right?

Cue the "that's maybe only one poster, or maybe really none at all"

foosballnick wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:
Exactly the crap I don't get and really drags the board down

Says the court jester of this board who continually makes silly/provacative one-line statements and consistently mentions that he is going to take his ball and go home by rooting for another team........seemingly just to illicit reaction. LOL. No I mean really....LOL.

guns whining about his Hornets still beats the sheehit out of these over-spaced, attention whore haikus we've been experiencing lately.

TripleThreat wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote: Why is Lin even being discussed in this particular thread. .... so Lin doesnt really matter anymore

This is the OP's original post

Papabear wrote:Papabear Says

We have a new point guard added who can't guard but can shoot at 34 years old. Many teams in the East have made upgrades better than ours. They are young and fast. I see movements and changes, trades by teams everyday but we are stuck in quicksand. Phil can't move because no one wants what we have. I believe that this will be a loosing season if Phil can't make a few more moves that can better the team. I look around the east and making the playoffs this season is not guaranteed. If Shump don't improve his shooting, Hardaway don't learn to defend,Jr Smith don't have a 6th man award season and our power forwards don't get any backbone I can't see use improving that much. So whats the big upgrade??

It is impossible to discuss the value of Jose Calderon and his ability to help the Knicks win, now or for the future ( the Knicks have to eat the last three years of the four year deal he signed with Dallas in 2013) without putting into context what Raymond Felton did or did not give the Knicks at the point guard position. (Felton was often cited by league analysts as the worst starting point guard in the NBA, and that many other teams reserve point guard would probably be more productive than Felton, as sad as that is in reality)

It's impossible to discuss the need to fix the Felton situation without discussing WHY FELTON GOT TO THE KNICKS IN THE FIRST PLACE. Which goes back to Jeremy Lin leaving the team for the Rockets. If the Knicks and Lin had worked something out, there is no Felton. Since Steve Novak and Lin played very well together, one could argue there would less incentive to trade for Bargnani ( not a true center, basically a shooting power forward who doesn't offer defense nor athleticism, which is what Novak offered the Knicks, except Novak was cheaper and a better long range shooter) With Lin on the roster, without the need to DUMP FELTON and FIX THE POINT GUARD POSITION, if Tyson Chandler needed to be traded, he could have then been traded for other valuable assets instead of fixing said point guard issues and dumping Felton's off the court/contract/mediocre play onto Dallas.

The discussion is about the point guard position and the impact there in improving the team.

Does anyone want to argue that the following would be more desirable than the last two years of reality for the Knicks?

Lin plus Novak, a tandem that worked extremely well together, still on the team

It's impossible to get through to you that Lin's career here was a stellar two weeks, after which he was exposed as just another injury prone-come-playoff-time, turnover machine. That he was subsequently outplayed by HOF Patrick Beverly and Knick cast off Toney D.

It's impossible to get through to you that Novak was and is a one trick pony who's useless on both ends of the court come playoff time. See his career now on the bench.
It's impossible for you to realize that comparing Novak to Bargs, a guy who could actually guard the likes of Hibbert and DHow, to a guy like Novak, who couldn't guard anyone. Novak, who couldn't create his own shot in an empty gym, to Bargs, who's pre-Knick forte was being 7 feet and being able to put the ball on the floor.

It's impossible for you to realize that your patron saint of coaching failed here, for whatever reason, and then went on to LA where he failed even more spectacularly with boatloads more talent.

Keep spouting your Melohate.

But you don't get any of this.

TripeThreat wrote:

The Jose Calderon question ONLY EXISTS IN THE FIRST PLACE because of Melo's failures as a leader and franchise player.

Yes, like carrying us to the playoffs 3 out of 4 years, while your pre-2010 team ball had spent 8 years in lottery land drafting the next crop of Fred Weis's. Forget winning a division and 50+ games. That didn't count. By outscoring the Knick legends of BK and Ewing. That also means nothing to the franchise. Waste of time, actually. Who the eff cares about putting the ball in the hole? It's team ball and 7 seconds or less than mean anything in life.

TripleThreat wrote:It's amusing to me, some of you accusing me of derailing the thread while licking Melo's balls after he derailed and continues to derail the Knicks franchise. That some of you expect so little out of the Knicks supposed "leader" is just sad. That some of you will celebrate that he decided to show up in shape after a decade in the league is just sad.

It's not amusing that you don't realize Melo's balls led the league in scoring, little things that people like Durant and LeBron and Kobe and Harden do. That he plays more minutes than anyone else on the team might be something some would consider being a supposed "leader". That he shows up and actually doesn't wear a suit during the playoffs just might count for more than your dopey Lin/Novak sheet stain. That he regularly outplays every other member of the team season after season.

Just sad is about right.

I think the big misery is that we keep thinking this is a knick fan board hit it's really a place where haters go to debate Knick fans.

All about the ignore feature my friends.

Stay fans!

TripleThreat wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote: Not sure why the hate on Lin. I mean im not a Lin fan but to be fair Linsanity was one of the few bright spots the Knicks have had since 2000 sadly

Holding Lin to a veteran standard makes the comparison to Carmelo Anthony seem less brutal.

How about if he is held to the standards of the 5th highest paid point guard in the league and the 24th highest player in the league? Does he cut the mustard as a player in the spot where his salary places him? His playoff performances have been horrible. Prior to throwing out his chest he was having a horrific series against OKC. He will be remembered for one of the biggest chokes in Rockets history for his play in game 4 against the Blazers. He backed up an undrafted second year player and had to be packaged with draft picks to move his contract. Also, who 'ham fisted' his situation in Houston.

CrushAlot wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote: Not sure why the hate on Lin. I mean im not a Lin fan but to be fair Linsanity was one of the few bright spots the Knicks have had since 2000 sadly

Holding Lin to a veteran standard makes the comparison to Carmelo Anthony seem less brutal.

How about if he is held to the standards of the 5th highest paid point guard in the league and the 24th highest player in the league? Does he cut the mustard as a player in the spot where his salary places him? His playoff performances have been horrible. Prior to throwing out his chest he was having a horrific series against OKC. He will be remembered for one of the biggest chokes in Rockets history for his play in game 4 against the Blazers. He backed up an undrafted second year player and had to be packaged with draft picks to move his contract. Also, who 'ham fisted' his situation in Houston.

who would you rather have had as a knick, felton or lin, calderon or lin.

lets hear where the rubber meets the road for you.

dk7th wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote: Not sure why the hate on Lin. I mean im not a Lin fan but to be fair Linsanity was one of the few bright spots the Knicks have had since 2000 sadly

Holding Lin to a veteran standard makes the comparison to Carmelo Anthony seem less brutal.

How about if he is held to the standards of the 5th highest paid point guard in the league and the 24th highest player in the league? Does he cut the mustard as a player in the spot where his salary places him? His playoff performances have been horrible. Prior to throwing out his chest he was having a horrific series against OKC. He will be remembered for one of the biggest chokes in Rockets history for his play in game 4 against the Blazers. He backed up an undrafted second year player and had to be packaged with draft picks to move his contract. Also, who 'ham fisted' his situation in Houston.

who would you rather have had as a knick, felton or lin, calderon or lin.

lets hear where the rubber meets the road for you.

Regardless of who he chooses, it doesn't make what he said any less true. A little harsh at some points but it'd still be true.