Woody probably was thinking the same things
As he was during the 54win team season
He probably homered that season
And projected out 164gms of success
Tickling some fancies here, you can't project this season
Based on last season's results, due to not foreseeing all
Issues that got in the way of the team winning
But you can blame the coach for losing all those games with those same issues
Nalod wrote:knicks1248 wrote:Nalod wrote:Woodson got scooped up by Doc pretty quickly.
Doc is pretty well thought of by his owner, fans, and the press.I will never understand WTF woodson was thinking
Maybe someone can ask Doc?
I mean really, the guy wins as assistant with Larry in Detroit, gets the head gig in ATL, team gets better every year, gets
hired by NY to be defensive assistant, then top dog, Makes the playoffs here, has a 54 game winning season, then it all falls to pieces and we ask ourselves how awful is this guy?
He's a great assistant, and cool dude overall, but don't you dear let him come up with the game plan, your screwed.He makes no adjustments at all, and the few times he did, they completely backed fire boomerang style.
If they go small, i'll go big, if they go big, i'll go small.
The Idea of swtiching is to confused your opponent, not your own players
Im not saying he deserves a place on MT Rushmore with Phil, Pop, Red and Riles......
But the winning % is pretty good. I thought the 54 win season he got a lot out of the team!!!
I hate to beat a dead horse, but he had veterans that made the adjustments on their own, kidd, kmart, rasheed and tyson was very vocal on the floor.
Thats what I mean my making adjustmnets, and he kept sticking to the same damn plan. So for the pessimistic fan who thinks we aren't going to be much better, all you have to do is look at the bullsht we were running before, Even with that exact same roster with no changes at all, I feel fisher and his staff can easily win another 7 to 8 games.
knicks1248 wrote:Nalod wrote:knicks1248 wrote:Nalod wrote:Woodson got scooped up by Doc pretty quickly.
Doc is pretty well thought of by his owner, fans, and the press.I will never understand WTF woodson was thinking
Maybe someone can ask Doc?
I mean really, the guy wins as assistant with Larry in Detroit, gets the head gig in ATL, team gets better every year, gets
hired by NY to be defensive assistant, then top dog, Makes the playoffs here, has a 54 game winning season, then it all falls to pieces and we ask ourselves how awful is this guy?
He's a great assistant, and cool dude overall, but don't you dear let him come up with the game plan, your screwed.He makes no adjustments at all, and the few times he did, they completely backed fire boomerang style.
If they go small, i'll go big, if they go big, i'll go small.
The Idea of swtiching is to confused your opponent, not your own players
Im not saying he deserves a place on MT Rushmore with Phil, Pop, Red and Riles......
But the winning % is pretty good. I thought the 54 win season he got a lot out of the team!!!
I hate to beat a dead horse, but he had veterans that made the adjustments on their own, kidd, kmart, rasheed and tyson was very vocal on the floor.
Thats what I mean my making adjustmnets, and he kept sticking to the same damn plan. So for the pessimistic fan who thinks we aren't going to be much better, all you have to do is look at the bullsht we were running before, Even with that exact same roster with no changes at all, I feel fisher and his staff can easily win another 7 to 8 games.
What about the 18-6 finish? Maybe, like 99% of coaches, he's simply as good or bad as his roster.
knicks1248 wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:Im not defending Woodson but honestly we had/have very few good defensive players. I mean Melo amare bargs hardaway felton were all terrible defensively. Shumpert is probably our best and tyson regressed as we know. So im not defending Woodson for teh switching but we would have been screwed eitehr way 
with that being said, don't you think it would have been better to put in a defense scheme that wasn't has stupid as switching on every damn play.
We switch when we play in the streets, and we always yell switch, I got him, pick him up, something to indicate what the hell your doing. but the knicks hardly ever do that, the first sign of a good defense is the team that communicates on the floor, before the play, and during the play, not after the sht happen, and then running up the court shaking your damn head.
woodson had a defense system that none of his players were in favor of, and thats not good
woodson's record of playoff annihilation prior to becoming a defensive assistant should have been the tipoff-- he is not head coaching material. that 18-6 record that gets touted is a mirage. look at the overall work and it paints an ugly picture. the final straw for me was his lukewarm attitude to jeremy lin. the 54-28 REGULAR-SEASON record? also a mirage.... he got his head handed to him in the playoffs.
Bonn1997 wrote:knicks1248 wrote:Nalod wrote:knicks1248 wrote:Nalod wrote:Woodson got scooped up by Doc pretty quickly.
Doc is pretty well thought of by his owner, fans, and the press.I will never understand WTF woodson was thinking
Maybe someone can ask Doc?
I mean really, the guy wins as assistant with Larry in Detroit, gets the head gig in ATL, team gets better every year, gets
hired by NY to be defensive assistant, then top dog, Makes the playoffs here, has a 54 game winning season, then it all falls to pieces and we ask ourselves how awful is this guy?
He's a great assistant, and cool dude overall, but don't you dear let him come up with the game plan, your screwed.He makes no adjustments at all, and the few times he did, they completely backed fire boomerang style.
If they go small, i'll go big, if they go big, i'll go small.
The Idea of swtiching is to confused your opponent, not your own players
Im not saying he deserves a place on MT Rushmore with Phil, Pop, Red and Riles......
But the winning % is pretty good. I thought the 54 win season he got a lot out of the team!!!
I hate to beat a dead horse, but he had veterans that made the adjustments on their own, kidd, kmart, rasheed and tyson was very vocal on the floor.
Thats what I mean my making adjustmnets, and he kept sticking to the same damn plan. So for the pessimistic fan who thinks we aren't going to be much better, all you have to do is look at the bullsht we were running before, Even with that exact same roster with no changes at all, I feel fisher and his staff can easily win another 7 to 8 games.
What about the 18-6 finish? Maybe, like 99% of coaches, he's simply as good or bad as his roster.
Pretty much the sume of it. Woodson does two things and I give him credit for....he rolls with the guys who got him where's he's been and he trust vets. thats been his m.o.....he uses his best talent and he allows the old heads to steer the ship.
To be honest Doc is alot like Woodson, if anyone complains about the defensive switching Doc does it as well and he did it alot with the celtics. Difference was Doc had quite a few good defenders on his team, woody was limited in that area.
Not surprised Doc scooped him up so fast. Every coach doesn't win a title as the top dog, but woodson has always gotten wins to participate in the rounds.
knickscity wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:knicks1248 wrote:Nalod wrote:knicks1248 wrote:Nalod wrote:Woodson got scooped up by Doc pretty quickly.
Doc is pretty well thought of by his owner, fans, and the press.I will never understand WTF woodson was thinking
Maybe someone can ask Doc?
I mean really, the guy wins as assistant with Larry in Detroit, gets the head gig in ATL, team gets better every year, gets
hired by NY to be defensive assistant, then top dog, Makes the playoffs here, has a 54 game winning season, then it all falls to pieces and we ask ourselves how awful is this guy?
He's a great assistant, and cool dude overall, but don't you dear let him come up with the game plan, your screwed.He makes no adjustments at all, and the few times he did, they completely backed fire boomerang style.
If they go small, i'll go big, if they go big, i'll go small.
The Idea of swtiching is to confused your opponent, not your own players
Im not saying he deserves a place on MT Rushmore with Phil, Pop, Red and Riles......
But the winning % is pretty good. I thought the 54 win season he got a lot out of the team!!!
I hate to beat a dead horse, but he had veterans that made the adjustments on their own, kidd, kmart, rasheed and tyson was very vocal on the floor.
Thats what I mean my making adjustmnets, and he kept sticking to the same damn plan. So for the pessimistic fan who thinks we aren't going to be much better, all you have to do is look at the bullsht we were running before, Even with that exact same roster with no changes at all, I feel fisher and his staff can easily win another 7 to 8 games.
What about the 18-6 finish? Maybe, like 99% of coaches, he's simply as good or bad as his roster.
Pretty much the sume of it. Woodson does two things and I give him credit for....he rolls with the guys who got him where's he's been and he trust vets. thats been his m.o.....he uses his best talent and he allows the old heads to steer the ship.To be honest Doc is alot like Woodson, if anyone complains about the defensive switching Doc does it as well and he did it alot with the celtics. Difference was Doc had quite a few good defenders on his team, woody was limited in that area.
Not surprised Doc scooped him up so fast. Every coach doesn't win a title as the top dog, but woodson has always gotten wins to participate in the rounds.
he is a good coach in the jayvee season but he gets schooled in the playoffs. he should have been more than lukewarm with lin-- really bad judgement there, but he was loyal to another "veteran" on the knicks.
dk7th wrote:knicks1248 wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:Im not defending Woodson but honestly we had/have very few good defensive players. I mean Melo amare bargs hardaway felton were all terrible defensively. Shumpert is probably our best and tyson regressed as we know. So im not defending Woodson for teh switching but we would have been screwed eitehr way
with that being said, don't you think it would have been better to put in a defense scheme that wasn't has stupid as switching on every damn play.
We switch when we play in the streets, and we always yell switch, I got him, pick him up, something to indicate what the hell your doing. but the knicks hardly ever do that, the first sign of a good defense is the team that communicates on the floor, before the play, and during the play, not after the sht happen, and then running up the court shaking your damn head.
woodson had a defense system that none of his players were in favor of, and thats not good
woodson's record of playoff annihilation prior to becoming a defensive assistant should have been the tipoff-- he is not head coaching material. that 18-6 record that gets touted is a mirage. look at the overall work and it paints an ugly picture. the final straw for me was his lukewarm attitude to jeremy lin. the 54-28 REGULAR-SEASON record? also a mirage.... he got his head handed to him in the playoffs.
Yep a bunch of inept "head coaches" and glorified assistants around the league
Nalod wrote:knicks1248 wrote:Nalod wrote:Woodson got scooped up by Doc pretty quickly.
Doc is pretty well thought of by his owner, fans, and the press.I will never understand WTF woodson was thinking
Maybe someone can ask Doc?
I mean really, the guy wins as assistant with Larry in Detroit, gets the head gig in ATL, team gets better every year, gets
hired by NY to be defensive assistant, then top dog, Makes the playoffs here, has a 54 game winning season, then it all falls to pieces and we ask ourselves how awful is this guy?
He's a great assistant, and cool dude overall, but don't you dear let him come up with the game plan, your screwed.He makes no adjustments at all, and the few times he did, they completely backed fire boomerang style.
If they go small, i'll go big, if they go big, i'll go small.
The Idea of swtiching is to confused your opponent, not your own players
Im not saying he deserves a place on MT Rushmore with Phil, Pop, Red and Riles......
But the winning % is pretty good. I thought the 54 win season he got a lot out of the team!!!
You didn't even respond to the points he made
I am glad that Woody era has become history.
nixluva wrote:I think Woody was overwhelmed last year. His staff IMO was useless. He had so much to do trying to coach up bad defensive players and I think his staff was ill equipped to really help him. The team D was much better the years before but I think he had more help from Kidd and Sheed early on. Last year Woody really needed his own defensive assistant to work specifically with players that needed special attention. We had more players who needed help.
I think Woody's mind was overwhelmed
knickstorrents wrote:nixluva wrote:I think Woody was overwhelmed last year. His staff IMO was useless. He had so much to do trying to coach up bad defensive players and I think his staff was ill equipped to really help him. The team D was much better the years before but I think he had more help from Kidd and Sheed early on. Last year Woody really needed his own defensive assistant to work specifically with players that needed special attention. We had more players who needed help.
I think Woody's mind was overwhelmed
The switching system did not complement the roster he had to work with, don't give me a hummer with racing tires then place me in a nascar race and wonder why I can't keep up.
When kidd was on the roster we trapped like hell, as soon as the ball crossed half court. I don't want Amare guarding Lowry or jarret jack because of a switch, then call amare a horrible defender, or my PG end up guarding a center or pf on a switch only to leave his man open because no one switched off to his man.
I hope we have a coaching staff that will put our players in position to atleast be adaquate
Jesus that was an awful breakdown. He even contradicts himself in it.
Not defending Woodson because he was awful BUT the team simply stunk last year. I mean nobody outside of shumpert(who even struggled) was good at defense. The Bargs trade still made no sense. Tysn Chandler regressed bigtime. Melo and Amare put up good offensive numbers but arent good defenders either. So im not defending Woodson at all because he had to go ut the whole team was a mess anyway
I think Tyson mailed it in a long time ago and there was no vocal leader. Kidd was literally telling guys where to help from because we have a lot of clueless players on the roster. But still, this mess falls on Woody. There was no structure and even the system he tried to put in place was pretty bad to begin with. No good defenses switch the majority of the time. It's just not effective getting so many mismatches. There was clearly no discipline either. Because some guys wanted to switch while others didn't. Poor communication and zero leadership were evident. The only time you switch a small onto a big or vice versa is late in the shot clock. This crap also happened during our 54 win season as well, but it went unnoticed because we were winning thanks to a barrage of 3-balls.
tj23 wrote:I think Tyson mailed it in a long time ago and there was no vocal leader. Kidd was literally telling guys where to help from because we have a lot of clueless players on the roster. But still, this mess falls on Woody. There was no structure and even the system he tried to put in place was pretty bad to begin with. No good defenses switch the majority of the time. It's just not effective getting so many mismatches. There was clearly no discipline either. Because some guys wanted to switch while others didn't. Poor communication and zero leadership were evident. The only time you switch a small onto a big or vice versa is late in the shot clock. This crap also happened during our 54 win season as well, but it went unnoticed because we were winning thanks to a barrage of 3-balls.
yep, and we got severely exposed in the playoffs..
Im still trying to figure out why ppl think he's a head coach
knicks1248 wrote:tj23 wrote:I think Tyson mailed it in a long time ago and there was no vocal leader. Kidd was literally telling guys where to help from because we have a lot of clueless players on the roster. But still, this mess falls on Woody. There was no structure and even the system he tried to put in place was pretty bad to begin with. No good defenses switch the majority of the time. It's just not effective getting so many mismatches. There was clearly no discipline either. Because some guys wanted to switch while others didn't. Poor communication and zero leadership were evident. The only time you switch a small onto a big or vice versa is late in the shot clock. This crap also happened during our 54 win season as well, but it went unnoticed because we were winning thanks to a barrage of 3-balls.
yep, and we got severely exposed in the playoffs..
Im still trying to figure out why ppl think he's a head coach
because he coached atlanta for enough years to qualify in some people's minds. same issue with flip saunders.
dk7th wrote:knicks1248 wrote:tj23 wrote:I think Tyson mailed it in a long time ago and there was no vocal leader. Kidd was literally telling guys where to help from because we have a lot of clueless players on the roster. But still, this mess falls on Woody. There was no structure and even the system he tried to put in place was pretty bad to begin with. No good defenses switch the majority of the time. It's just not effective getting so many mismatches. There was clearly no discipline either. Because some guys wanted to switch while others didn't. Poor communication and zero leadership were evident. The only time you switch a small onto a big or vice versa is late in the shot clock. This crap also happened during our 54 win season as well, but it went unnoticed because we were winning thanks to a barrage of 3-balls.
yep, and we got severely exposed in the playoffs..
Im still trying to figure out why ppl think he's a head coach
because he coached atlanta for enough years to qualify in some people's minds. same issue with flip saunders.
Anytime you get fired after having a winning season, improve your regular season record 3 yrs straight, thats a major problem that ppl don't see on the surface.
dk7th wrote:knicks1248 wrote:tj23 wrote:I think Tyson mailed it in a long time ago and there was no vocal leader. Kidd was literally telling guys where to help from because we have a lot of clueless players on the roster. But still, this mess falls on Woody. There was no structure and even the system he tried to put in place was pretty bad to begin with. No good defenses switch the majority of the time. It's just not effective getting so many mismatches. There was clearly no discipline either. Because some guys wanted to switch while others didn't. Poor communication and zero leadership were evident. The only time you switch a small onto a big or vice versa is late in the shot clock. This crap also happened during our 54 win season as well, but it went unnoticed because we were winning thanks to a barrage of 3-balls.
yep, and we got severely exposed in the playoffs..
Im still trying to figure out why ppl think he's a head coach
because he coached atlanta for enough years to qualify in some people's minds. same issue with flip saunders.
Wasn't Woodson viewed as a valuable mentor to these guys?
knicks1248 wrote:dk7th wrote:knicks1248 wrote:tj23 wrote:I think Tyson mailed it in a long time ago and there was no vocal leader. Kidd was literally telling guys where to help from because we have a lot of clueless players on the roster. But still, this mess falls on Woody. There was no structure and even the system he tried to put in place was pretty bad to begin with. No good defenses switch the majority of the time. It's just not effective getting so many mismatches. There was clearly no discipline either. Because some guys wanted to switch while others didn't. Poor communication and zero leadership were evident. The only time you switch a small onto a big or vice versa is late in the shot clock. This crap also happened during our 54 win season as well, but it went unnoticed because we were winning thanks to a barrage of 3-balls.
yep, and we got severely exposed in the playoffs..
Im still trying to figure out why ppl think he's a head coach
because he coached atlanta for enough years to qualify in some people's minds. same issue with flip saunders.
Anytime you get fired after having a winning season, improve your regular season record 3 yrs straight, thats a major problem that ppl don't see on the surface.
Same thing happened in Atlanta
The question is why did we hire him to begin with
Was it because the standard was lowered
With D'Antoni on the bench
Melo had nothing to say but positive things about Woodson
He couldn't be wrong with what he said right
F500ONE wrote:knicks1248 wrote:dk7th wrote:knicks1248 wrote:tj23 wrote:I think Tyson mailed it in a long time ago and there was no vocal leader. Kidd was literally telling guys where to help from because we have a lot of clueless players on the roster. But still, this mess falls on Woody. There was no structure and even the system he tried to put in place was pretty bad to begin with. No good defenses switch the majority of the time. It's just not effective getting so many mismatches. There was clearly no discipline either. Because some guys wanted to switch while others didn't. Poor communication and zero leadership were evident. The only time you switch a small onto a big or vice versa is late in the shot clock. This crap also happened during our 54 win season as well, but it went unnoticed because we were winning thanks to a barrage of 3-balls.
yep, and we got severely exposed in the playoffs..
Im still trying to figure out why ppl think he's a head coach
because he coached atlanta for enough years to qualify in some people's minds. same issue with flip saunders.
Anytime you get fired after having a winning season, improve your regular season record 3 yrs straight, thats a major problem that ppl don't see on the surface.
Same thing happened in Atlanta
The question is why did we hire him to begin with
Was it because the standard was lowered
With D'Antoni on the bench
Melo had nothing to say but positive things about Woodson
He couldn't be wrong with what he said right
How could he say anything negative when he had is most efficient yrs under woodson, and lets be clear about one thing, woodson was hired as an assistant, and only got the head coaching job by default. He also had a long standing relationship with grunwald.
It wasn't a secrete the dolan had no options available to replace him.
yeah once walsh was out you had the grunwald-isiah-woodson indiana connection and the resultant cronyism. i don't recall d'antoni being thrilled with the hire but as usual the good soldier that he was he said all the right things.
