Knicks · OT: Shoukd the Giants fire Reece & Coughlin? (page 2)

He don't get fired, he leaves when he is done.

We read they are installing a new offense and it will take time. Lets fire him and install another offense mid season.

Thats not gonna happen.

Reece is definitely getting fired

gunsnewing wrote:No he will be fired this year or will "resign/retire"

Reece is definitely getting fired

0-2 and its panic city. WHat was your expectation for the season? What is the potential for the team?
The new offense, is it still a work in progress?

Nalod wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:No he will be fired this year or will "resign/retire"

Reece is definitely getting fired

0-2 and its panic city. WHat was your expectation for the season? What is the potential for the team?
The new offense, is it still a work in progress?

to hear bradshaw in the postgame, it just sounds like another slow start and they'll figure it out. i am inclined to agree. they were up against the best run defense yesterday so you have to figure the rushing will be better. turnovers and special teams proved they are not a playoff team yet. parcells always stressed that playoff games are won on turnovers an special teams.

dk7th wrote:

Nalod wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:No he will be fired this year or will "resign/retire"

Reece is definitely getting fired

0-2 and its panic city. WHat was your expectation for the season? What is the potential for the team?
The new offense, is it still a work in progress?

to hear bradshaw in the postgame, it just sounds like another slow start and they'll figure it out. i am inclined to agree. they were up against the best run defense yesterday so you have to figure the rushing will be better. turnovers and special teams proved they are not a playoff team yet. parcells always stressed that playoff games are won on turnovers an special teams.

I don't follow them close enought to know what the roster turn over looks like and if its a "rebuild". We let Tuck go. The running game is weak. New offense.

I would imagine Coughlin knows the gig. IF its a rebuild and he's got the engergy and desire they'll let him stay. Has Reese really blundered? Are Giants rebuilding?
Coughlin is a 2 time Superbowl winner and enroute to HOF. You don't fire guys like that, they step down when they done.

Any superfans really have a take on the roster contruction and expectation?

We SHOULD have won this game, but a few costly turnovers, some idiotic penalties, and yes some poor officiating early in the game made us blunder.

Cardinals have the top-rated run defense in the league, yet Coughlin stuck with the ground game. Why? To keep the defense honest and allow our new stud TE to catch a ton of passes in the middle. Cruz MUST stop dropping passes that hit him in the hands.

0-2 start is painful, but I think this team is headed in a very positive direction. Our defense had at least 4 sacks yesterday, and our secondary will be among the best in the league this season (barring injury). Our run defense looks fantastic so far.

The main weak spot (outside of receivers not holding onto the ball)? The O-line. They are pathetically bad and if they don't improve, that's what will hold this team back. Losing Snee was a big hit. The new guys in the middle need to gel quickly.

We lack too much talent to compete

OFF LINE
lockdown CB's, with one being able to match up vs the BIG WR's 1v1
RB
2 TE's to play together that are versatile enough to block and/or catch on high % like Ballard and Travis Beckum did? I forgot their names the last time we beat the Pat's, they were very under rated

I have never though Eli was ELITE and now I think he is on the bottom end of QB's
However, he got hot, made some great throws at the right time, and his recievers/TE's produced with our DEF together
We had a healthy roster and it just worked out well with the momentum gained

I don't think these players "BELIEVE" whether it is on the players or the coach, it is irrelevent at this point
I am new to football and do not understand it with the cap at all, with the value of each picks each year but we need lots of changes, not sure when the Giant's "2015, compared to Knick's"
But they need to rebuild their roster with the cap and draft picks, while trading everyone but Cruz, not sure if Eli has any good value but we should trade him if we can, it is business

Very average Qb's can win rings.
Two is a different story.

Only 23 QB's in the HOF from the modern era.
ONly mupliple winner NOT in is Jim Plunkett. Jim was a very good QB, so is Eli. not Elite.

Guys with more than one superbowl wins....

Tom Brady 3-2

New England Patriots - XXXVI, XXXVIII, XXXIX, XLII, XLVI

60%

[1]

John Elway

2-3

Denver Broncos - XXI, XXII, XXIV, XXXII, XXXIII

40%

[2]

Terry Bradshaw

4-0

Pittsburgh Steelers - IX, X, XIII, XIV

100%

{3}

Joe Montana

4-0

San Francisco 49ers - XVI, XIX, XXIII, XXIV

100%

[4]

Roger Staubach

2-2

Dallas Cowboys - VI, X, XII, XIII

50%

[5]

Jim Kelly

0-4

Buffalo Bills - XXV, XXVI, XXVII, XXVIII

0%

[6]

3

Troy Aikman

3-0

Dallas Cowboys - XXVII, XXVIII, XXX

100%

[7]

Bob Griese

2-1

Miami Dolphins - VI, VII, VIII

66%

Ben Roethlisberger

2-1

Pittsburgh Steelers - XL, XLIII, XLV

66%

[9]

Kurt Warner*

1-2

St. Louis Rams - XXXIV, XXXVI; Arizona Cardinals - XLIII

33%

[10]

Peyton Manning

1-2

Indianapolis Colts - XLI, XLIV; Denver Broncos - XLVIII

33%

[11]

Fran Tarkenton

0-3

Minnesota Vikings - VIII, IX, XI

0%

[12]

2

Bart Starr

2-0*

Green Bay Packers - I, II

100%

[13]

Jim Plunkett

2-0

Oakland/L.A. Raiders - XV, XVIII

100%

[14]

Eli Manning

2-0

New York Giants - XLII, XLVI

100%

[15]

Len Dawson

1-1*

Kansas City Chiefs - I, IV

50%

[16]

Joe Theismann

1-1

Washington Redskins - XVII, XVIII

50%

[17]

Brett Favre*

1-1

Green Bay Packers - XXXI, XXXII

50%

[18]

Craig Morton

0-2

Dallas Cowboys - V; Denver Broncos - XII

0%

[19]

RonRon wrote:There comes a time that change is needed
Whether it is his fault or not, someone should be held accountable after another change of an OFFENSIVE COACH leading to the same result
We simply lack talent and need to rebuild, after winning 2 rings, I think it is a change best for both parties

We lack too much talent to compete

OFF LINE
lockdown CB's, with one being able to match up vs the BIG WR's 1v1
RB
2 TE's to play together that are versatile enough to block and/or catch on high % like Ballard and Travis Beckum did? I forgot their names the last time we beat the Pat's, they were very under rated

I have never though Eli was ELITE and now I think he is on the bottom end of QB's
However, he got hot, made some great throws at the right time, and his recievers/TE's produced with our DEF together
We had a healthy roster and it just worked out well with the momentum gained

I don't think these players "BELIEVE" whether it is on the players or the coach, it is irrelevent at this point
I am new to football and do not understand it with the cap at all, with the value of each picks each year but we need lots of changes, not sure when the Giant's "2015, compared to Knick's"
But they need to rebuild their roster with the cap and draft picks, while trading everyone but Cruz, not sure if Eli has any good value but we should trade him if we can, it is business

Sorry to say, but I view this entire post as misguided. You should watch football for a few more years. The Giants have abundant talent, particularly on the defensive side of the ball. We have lock-down corners in ARC and PA. We have elite safeties, a solid LB corps and a terrific D-line.

The talent problems on NYG mainly revolve around the OFF LINE. And while Eli may not be elite, he is a PROVEN winner, with two hard-won SuperBowl titles for us in the past 8 years. We're not rebuilding anything. The Coughlin era is tied to Eli. Reese needs to rebuild our O-line and we will be back in contention. BTW, losing Snee had a huge impact on our offense, since he was (arguably) the best player on the team.

Nalod wrote:Eli is not elite. He just has two Superbowl rings.

Very average Qb's can win rings.
Two is a different story.

Only 23 QB's in the HOF from the modern era.
ONly mupliple winner NOT in is Jim Plunkett. Jim was a very good QB, so is Eli. not Elite.

Guys with more than one superbowl wins....

I tend to disagree.

By distilling your list, you get:

Tom Brady 3-2
John Elway 2-3
Terry Bradshaw 4-0
Joe Montana 4-0
Roger Staubach 2-2
Troy Aikman 3-0
Bob Griese 2-1
Ben Roethlisberger 2-1
Bart Starr 2-0*
Jim Plunkett 2-0
Eli Manning 2-0

Plunkett and Big Ben are the only questionable names on your list. Some analysts say Rothlisberger may have had some of the worst performances ever in a Super Bowl.

You might just be wrong on Plunkett, though:

In his first game as a starter, he completed eleven of fourteen passes with a touchdown and no interceptions. Plunkett guided Oakland to nine victories in eleven games and a playoff berth as a wild card. Plunkett led the Raiders to four playoff victories, including the first-ever victory by a wild card team in the Super Bowl, defeating the Philadelphia Eagles 27–10 in Super Bowl XV. Throwing for 261 yards and three touchdowns, Plunkett was named the game's MVP; subsequently, Plunkett has the distinction of being the first minority to quarterback a team to a Super Bowl victory and the only Latino to be named Super Bowl MVP. In addition to this, he became the second of four players to win the Heisman Trophy and Super Bowl MVP, Roger Staubach before him, and Marcus Allen and Desmond Howard after him.

The guy came off the bench twice during regular seasons and won Super Bowls and an MVP. Pretty elite.

That's some pretty elite company Eli's got there.

jrodmc wrote:

Nalod wrote:Eli is not elite. He just has two Superbowl rings.

Very average Qb's can win rings.
Two is a different story.

Only 23 QB's in the HOF from the modern era.
ONly mupliple winner NOT in is Jim Plunkett. Jim was a very good QB, so is Eli. not Elite.

Guys with more than one superbowl wins....

I tend to disagree.

By distilling your list, you get:

Tom Brady 3-2
John Elway 2-3
Terry Bradshaw 4-0
Joe Montana 4-0
Roger Staubach 2-2
Troy Aikman 3-0
Bob Griese 2-1
Ben Roethlisberger 2-1
Bart Starr 2-0*
Jim Plunkett 2-0
Eli Manning 2-0

Plunkett and Big Ben are the only questionable names on your list. Some analysts say Rothlisberger may have had some of the worst performances ever in a Super Bowl.

You might just be wrong on Plunkett, though:

In his first game as a starter, he completed eleven of fourteen passes with a touchdown and no interceptions. Plunkett guided Oakland to nine victories in eleven games and a playoff berth as a wild card. Plunkett led the Raiders to four playoff victories, including the first-ever victory by a wild card team in the Super Bowl, defeating the Philadelphia Eagles 27–10 in Super Bowl XV. Throwing for 261 yards and three touchdowns, Plunkett was named the game's MVP; subsequently, Plunkett has the distinction of being the first minority to quarterback a team to a Super Bowl victory and the only Latino to be named Super Bowl MVP. In addition to this, he became the second of four players to win the Heisman Trophy and Super Bowl MVP, Roger Staubach before him, and Marcus Allen and Desmond Howard after him.

The guy came off the bench twice during regular seasons and won Super Bowls and an MVP. Pretty elite.

That's some pretty elite company Eli's got there.

Plunkett is not in the HOF is he? That was my point. Two time winner don't make him elite.
Only 23 Qb's are in. For sure we have Brady and Payton in this era.
Its not just about the game, but Big Ben is 2-1 but has played in 3. Jim Kelly got to 4 but no wins. He is no in.Fran took Minny three times but never win. he IS in.
Pro Football don't just let anyone in! Marino and Fouts put up gaudy numbers which got them in.but never got to the game.
Craig Morton got two teams to the Superbowl but no wins.

Hey, Im all for Eli being in. I looked at another list and appears Jim Kelly is in.

In the end of the day Robert Horry is not comparable to Jordan, nor is Bill Russell
Using Jordan because he started the 5 is better than 1 BS

Jordan has hurt our chances of becoming contenders even after retirement, off the court with those comments

As if Lebron isn't tough enough, he is looking to get as many rings as possible, at least to tie or beat out Kobe, targeting 5-6 or more before he retires
His ability to attract talent, from ALL STARs, solid role players (Mike Miller), vet min players, make other players better, while all taking less will a challenge

RonRon wrote:Rings can not be used as a measure of greatness
It doesn't justify talent

In the end of the day Robert Horry is not comparable to Jordan, nor is Bill Russell
Using Jordan because he started the 5 is better than 1 BS

Jordan has hurt our chances of becoming contenders even after retirement, off the court with those comments

As if Lebron isn't tough enough, he is looking to get as many rings as possible, at least to tie or beat out Kobe, targeting 5-6 or more before he retires
His ability to attract talent, from ALL STARs, solid role players (Mike Miller), vet min players, make other players better, while all taking less will a challenge

in his two runs, he was the greatness (unlike Trent Dilfer).

mreinman wrote:

RonRon wrote:Rings can not be used as a measure of greatness
It doesn't justify talent

In the end of the day Robert Horry is not comparable to Jordan, nor is Bill Russell
Using Jordan because he started the 5 is better than 1 BS

Jordan has hurt our chances of becoming contenders even after retirement, off the court with those comments

As if Lebron isn't tough enough, he is looking to get as many rings as possible, at least to tie or beat out Kobe, targeting 5-6 or more before he retires
His ability to attract talent, from ALL STARs, solid role players (Mike Miller), vet min players, make other players better, while all taking less will a challenge

in his two runs, he was the greatness (unlike Trent Dilfer).

He still is...he has a "winner within" attitude. You get that from childhood, not from having a great arm. He has an indomitable spirit and a QB's acumen for winning close games. Once he gets a handle on Benny's plays, and tightens up with Cruz, he gwine pwn muffahs. Watch and learn.

RonRon wrote:Rings can not be used as a measure of greatness
It doesn't justify talent

In the end of the day Robert Horry is not comparable to Jordan, nor is Bill Russell
Using Jordan because he started the 5 is better than 1 BS

Jordan has hurt our chances of becoming contenders even after retirement, off the court with those comments

As if Lebron isn't tough enough, he is looking to get as many rings as possible, at least to tie or beat out Kobe, targeting 5-6 or more before he retires
His ability to attract talent, from ALL STARs, solid role players (Mike Miller), vet min players, make other players better, while all taking less will a challenge

Terry Bradshaw Has 4 rings and is not held in the same esteem as those with less, but he is in the HOF because of them.

Eli was the MVP in a game that Giants beat the undefeated Patriots in the biggest game. David stared down Goliath and derailed an undefeated season. A feat not achieved since the 1972 Dolphins and never done in the 16 game format.

That run and that game was epic. Coughlin coached that game. You don't fire that guy.

Giants missed the playoffs 4 out of the last 5 season
This would be 5 of 6 for those keeping score
Not even the Knicks & yankees are that inept

inept is not a word I'd use.

8 chips in 89 years. 4 bowls in 5 tries in the Modern Era. Not too bad.

We got a long way to go before you start firing and getting angry.

Whole list of teams that have not done anything, or have not in a long time. Jets in 1968. Thats it.

I know, 2011 was just so long ago.