Knicks · Tyson can't let it go (page 4)

gunsnewing wrote:Crush ^Tyson was right with those comments

One of the few guys who actually were sick to their stomach about the season they had

His comments and play are two different discussions

Of course there is a contingent who want to steer the ship

In the direction of discontent with his play

Nevertheless this has nothing to do with the talk

That comes out from this organization about certain players

Once they're gone and rest assured Shumpert is next

I can already post what the narrative will be

If and once he's traded and trust he will have something to say

yellowboy90 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:You mean bring on #421!

It's not where you start but where you finish.

Which means he could finish 500

dk7th wrote:knicks had no use for chandler since he he lacks the requisite skills to participate in the triangle-- and neither does dalembert for that matter.

the knicks went 6-14 with chandler out with a broken leg, many of the losses by double digits and three that were horrific blowouts... and that was the season right there.

no, the real reason to move chandler is crystal clear: it was to acquire calderon because jackson hated felton more than he didn't think much of chandler's skills in the triangle.

chandler had every right to take the knicks to task. he had the stones to call things as he sees them-- that is a sign of character and yet he seems to be getting derided for that. woodson and felton were abominations who have won nothing. meanwhile chandler is a champion and a defensive player of the year.

as chandler alluded to, this is all rumor and innuendo.

you know what isn't rumor and innuendo but damaging to a team?: announcing that you intend to explore free agency before the season begins.

to review: in spite of being a champion and leader chandler is not a triangle player, they had to get rid of felton and calderon was available, woodson and felton's ineptitude were colossal, and the blabbermouth franchise player undermined the team before the season began.

Can you explain why there is some small chatter

Knicks could look to move Calderon later on

dk7th wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Yea that was the real chemistry killer before the season even began

Ha, if you think last years abomination of a season was due to a player saying they were going to test free agency, you obviously didn't watch it!

things went south when chandler broke his leg. they went 6-14. plus he was the only leader they had left.

They went from winning 20% of their games to winning 30%. Of course Chandler only played in 5 games but the team looked bad right out of the gate. Those loses to Houston and Indy were really bad and were games where the team might have been able to get on the right track and start something good.

F500ONE wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Crush ^Tyson was right with those comments

One of the few guys who actually were sick to their stomach about the season they had

His comments and play are two different discussions

Of course there is a contingent who want to steer the ship

In the direction of discontent with his play

Nevertheless this has nothing to do with the talk

That comes out from this organization about certain players

Once they're gone and rest assured Shumpert is next

I can already post what the narrative will be

If and once he's traded and trust he will have something to say

Shump seemed to regress last year. His defense wasn't as good, he shot 38% from the field and averaged under 7 pts a game. He also got in Woodson's face on several occasions and appeared to push him when Woodson tried to talk to him after taking him out in one game. If the Knicks had any gm other than Mills at the time I think Shump would have been moved. I hope I am wrong but I don't think Shump finds his game in NY. I am not sure he finds it as an nba player. He is the guy the scouting reports coming out of college said he would be. He needs to work hard not to be the next Terrence Williams.

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Yea that was the real chemistry killer before the season even began

Ha, if you think last years abomination of a season was due to a player saying they were going to test free agency, you obviously didn't watch it!

things went south when chandler broke his leg. they went 6-14. plus he was the only leader they had left.

They went from winning 20% of their games to winning 30%. Of course Chandler only played in 5 games but the team looked bad right out of the gate. Those loses to Houston and Indy were really bad and were games where the team might have been able to get on the right track and start something good.

i agree, they did look bad to start. Tyson broke his leg in the start of game #4 though. Then the bottom opened up.

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Yea that was the real chemistry killer before the season even began

Ha, if you think last years abomination of a season was due to a player saying they were going to test free agency, you obviously didn't watch it!

things went south when chandler broke his leg. they went 6-14. plus he was the only leader they had left.

They went from winning 20% of their games to winning 30%. Of course Chandler only played in 5 games but the team looked bad right out of the gate. Those loses to Houston and Indy were really bad and were games where the team might have been able to get on the right track and start something good.

going 1-3 is 25% not 20% and too small a sample size to be taken seriously anyway. lets say he plays against charlotte and they win, that puts them at 40%. losing streaks like the ten-game one they experienced in the middle of going 6-14 is indicative of a lack of leadership. i said before the season there would be a worrisome leadership vacuum, and when tyson went down the leadership vacuum became apparent right away. the chaos ended up being worse than i had predicted.

other than chandler was there anyone who could lead the knicks? anyone who qualifies as their heart and/or soul?

TripleThreat wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

The Knicks want to change up the culture in the team’s locker room, and by trading Chandler, Jackson and co. have sent a message that any chemistry issues needs to be dealt with internally. Expressing himself through the media wasn’t the best method of action for the big man. Such a strategy was considered a big problem with Jackson’s Bulls and Lakers teams. He finds a way to reign such players in, but in this case, parting ways happened to be the chosen course of action.

http://theknicksblog.com/knicks/tyson-ch...

I think it's an illusion in the modern NBA to think that any coach has real "control" of their team.

I see all the time that people say a coach has "lost his team" and that " the players have tuned out" and the media narrative is that the coach must be incompetent and bad at his job. I also see fans talk about teams need a coach like Poppovich, that players "can respect" and can "lead men"

I think it's all a bunch of happy horse shit to be honest.

Poppovich was blessed to have two of his core stars to be born and learned the game overseas. Where the culture promoted team basketball. He was also blessed with two No 1 picks overall, both elite HOF big men, one from a military education background, with that discipline, the other to be a very humble player who is naturally team oriented.

A lot easier to win that way than to get stuck with a guy like Baron Davis ( got fat, only put in effort in contract years, would be a locker room jerk when he had a big contract, would rather be a celebrity "icon" like so many other of the young US born African American players in the league who can't be satisfied being an NBA star but also want to be rappers, movie actors, have their own clothing line, be a sports agent and hang out with other movie stars )

Phil Jackson was not regulating crap of anything. Jordan simply existed in a time before social media and a time before the media could destroy him. Jordan routinely mocked and disrespected his GM Jerry Krause. He and Pippen openly tortured and froze out Rodney McCray for the crime of not being Walter Davis. Jordan punched out Steve Kerr because Kerrs kid has the gall to be better in a one on one game than Jordans kid. Jordan openly bullied and tried to broker conflict with Bill Cartwright. Pippen, in classic form, refused to go back into a game because a last second play was drawn up for Toni Kukoc instead.

Nor did he stop the Lakers from infighting. Kobe Bryant and Shaq went after each other relentlessly in the press. His books basically state, nearly a decade apart in writing, that Kobe Bryant was virtually uncoachable and did essentially whatever he wanted and that Derek Fisher was the only thing that could reign him in and Fisher was probably the only thing keeping Kobe and Shaq from killing each other during the first three peat for the Lakers. Kobe Bryant did what he wanted. Never played defense, never passed the ball, violated the Triangle principles, froze out team mates, attacked other team mates in the press.

When has Jackson ever "reigned in" a player? He's a guy who is really good with the media, the media LOVES HIM because he's funny and gives them good quotes and plays the friendly coach card with them and wins because he has had some of the best players ever in the game. He also had good GMs in Krause and Jerry West and hands off owners who would write big checks and let him do what he wanted.

Chandler got moved IMHO because he was the only Knick this offseason with any trade value and his contract was nearly up and it was clear he wasn't coming back. Also the Knicks desperately need an infusion of youth, esp with a deep draft class this past off season.

IMHO Chandler is an example of sometimes its better to leave money on the table. He got a 20 million one year offer from Mark Cuban. He could have tried to repeat with Dallas that year and still got a nice payday contract after ward. Instead he went for the safe money and longer deal but on a clearly dysfunctional team that fit poorly together and where he would fit poorly with the other major core players on the roster. The league has seen Dirk, Duncan, Parker and Ginobili take less, way less, to stay on teams where they have a good fit and a good history, rather than venture out for more money and end up on teams with a bunch of other ass holes.

There's a saying, "The first time you hear a story, it's as good as it will ever get" Meaning every story has two sides and the truth usually is somewhere in the middle. Chandler could have done a lot of things better. Played harder, kept quiet in the press, not butted heads with Melo and CAA's rule of the team. On the flip side, the Knicks as a whole could have done a better job to create a better environment around Chandler and the rest of the team.

But let's not pretend Phil Jackson is regulating order like some cowboy in a crazed bandit filled Western. This is Melo's team, Melo has generally always gotten what he wanted and none of that has ever helped the Knicks to be contenders. This is Melo's team in so much as Chicago was Jordan's team and the Lakers were Kobes team.

I think the point the article was making was that Jackson's teams kept problems in house and didn't go to the media. They still had problems but Kobe, Shaq and or Jordan weren't talking to the media after every loss about what was wrong and they weren't in the gms ear trying to sabotage the coach. Chandler went there in the Pacers series and then continued that trend throughout the regular season last year. His poor play, large contract, health, personal issues, and leaks to the press weren't worth the trouble.

TripleThreat wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

The Knicks want to change up the culture in the team’s locker room, and by trading Chandler, Jackson and co. have sent a message that any chemistry issues needs to be dealt with internally. Expressing himself through the media wasn’t the best method of action for the big man. Such a strategy was considered a big problem with Jackson’s Bulls and Lakers teams. He finds a way to reign such players in, but in this case, parting ways happened to be the chosen course of action.

http://theknicksblog.com/knicks/tyson-ch...

I think it's an illusion in the modern NBA to think that any coach has real "control" of their team.

I see all the time that people say a coach has "lost his team" and that " the players have tuned out" and the media narrative is that the coach must be incompetent and bad at his job. I also see fans talk about teams need a coach like Poppovich, that players "can respect" and can "lead men"

I think it's all a bunch of happy horse shit to be honest.

Poppovich was blessed to have two of his core stars to be born and learned the game overseas. Where the culture promoted team basketball. He was also blessed with two No 1 picks overall, both elite HOF big men, one from a military education background, with that discipline, the other to be a very humble player who is naturally team oriented.

A lot easier to win that way than to get stuck with a guy like Baron Davis ( got fat, only put in effort in contract years, would be a locker room jerk when he had a big contract, would rather be a celebrity "icon" like so many other of the young US born African American players in the league who can't be satisfied being an NBA star but also want to be rappers, movie actors, have their own clothing line, be a sports agent and hang out with other movie stars )

Phil Jackson was not regulating crap of anything. Jordan simply existed in a time before social media and a time before the media could destroy him. Jordan routinely mocked and disrespected his GM Jerry Krause. He and Pippen openly tortured and froze out Rodney McCray for the crime of not being Walter Davis. Jordan punched out Steve Kerr because Kerrs kid has the gall to be better in a one on one game than Jordans kid. Jordan openly bullied and tried to broker conflict with Bill Cartwright. Pippen, in classic form, refused to go back into a game because a last second play was drawn up for Toni Kukoc instead.

Nor did he stop the Lakers from infighting. Kobe Bryant and Shaq went after each other relentlessly in the press. His books basically state, nearly a decade apart in writing, that Kobe Bryant was virtually uncoachable and did essentially whatever he wanted and that Derek Fisher was the only thing that could reign him in and Fisher was probably the only thing keeping Kobe and Shaq from killing each other during the first three peat for the Lakers. Kobe Bryant did what he wanted. Never played defense, never passed the ball, violated the Triangle principles, froze out team mates, attacked other team mates in the press.

When has Jackson ever "reigned in" a player? He's a guy who is really good with the media, the media LOVES HIM because he's funny and gives them good quotes and plays the friendly coach card with them and wins because he has had some of the best players ever in the game. He also had good GMs in Krause and Jerry West and hands off owners who would write big checks and let him do what he wanted.

Chandler got moved IMHO because he was the only Knick this offseason with any trade value and his contract was nearly up and it was clear he wasn't coming back. Also the Knicks desperately need an infusion of youth, esp with a deep draft class this past off season.

IMHO Chandler is an example of sometimes its better to leave money on the table. He got a 20 million one year offer from Mark Cuban. He could have tried to repeat with Dallas that year and still got a nice payday contract after ward. Instead he went for the safe money and longer deal but on a clearly dysfunctional team that fit poorly together and where he would fit poorly with the other major core players on the roster. The league has seen Dirk, Duncan, Parker and Ginobili take less, way less, to stay on teams where they have a good fit and a good history, rather than venture out for more money and end up on teams with a bunch of other ass holes.

There's a saying, "The first time you hear a story, it's as good as it will ever get" Meaning every story has two sides and the truth usually is somewhere in the middle. Chandler could have done a lot of things better. Played harder, kept quiet in the press, not butted heads with Melo and CAA's rule of the team. On the flip side, the Knicks as a whole could have done a better job to create a better environment around Chandler and the rest of the team.

But let's not pretend Phil Jackson is regulating order like some cowboy in a crazed bandit filled Western. This is Melo's team, Melo has generally always gotten what he wanted and none of that has ever helped the Knicks to be contenders. This is Melo's team in so much as Chicago was Jordan's team and the Lakers were Kobes team.

just read this so-called "article" and wow this kid schlosser is trash. is he actually getting paid for this? and by the way the phrase is "rein in" as in a horse's reins-- not reign. just pointless, gossipy garbage taking up space on the internet.

as to your assessment of coaching being a bunch of bs, i don't know if that's entirely true. i see coaching more as teaching and mentoring, and as the playoffs continue on and the competition more fierce, that teaching and mentoring becomes more important even as it morphs into something akin to truth-telling and leadership. you see it in the timeouts with popovich and rivers especially.

Tyson would have been corrected just like Kobe and Shaq were. Tyson was not in the Knicks future plans for other reasons

dk7th wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

The Knicks want to change up the culture in the team’s locker room, and by trading Chandler, Jackson and co. have sent a message that any chemistry issues needs to be dealt with internally. Expressing himself through the media wasn’t the best method of action for the big man. Such a strategy was considered a big problem with Jackson’s Bulls and Lakers teams. He finds a way to reign such players in, but in this case, parting ways happened to be the chosen course of action.

http://theknicksblog.com/knicks/tyson-ch...

I think it's an illusion in the modern NBA to think that any coach has real "control" of their team.

I see all the time that people say a coach has "lost his team" and that " the players have tuned out" and the media narrative is that the coach must be incompetent and bad at his job. I also see fans talk about teams need a coach like Poppovich, that players "can respect" and can "lead men"

I think it's all a bunch of happy horse shit to be honest.

Poppovich was blessed to have two of his core stars to be born and learned the game overseas. Where the culture promoted team basketball. He was also blessed with two No 1 picks overall, both elite HOF big men, one from a military education background, with that discipline, the other to be a very humble player who is naturally team oriented.

A lot easier to win that way than to get stuck with a guy like Baron Davis ( got fat, only put in effort in contract years, would be a locker room jerk when he had a big contract, would rather be a celebrity "icon" like so many other of the young US born African American players in the league who can't be satisfied being an NBA star but also want to be rappers, movie actors, have their own clothing line, be a sports agent and hang out with other movie stars )

Phil Jackson was not regulating crap of anything. Jordan simply existed in a time before social media and a time before the media could destroy him. Jordan routinely mocked and disrespected his GM Jerry Krause. He and Pippen openly tortured and froze out Rodney McCray for the crime of not being Walter Davis. Jordan punched out Steve Kerr because Kerrs kid has the gall to be better in a one on one game than Jordans kid. Jordan openly bullied and tried to broker conflict with Bill Cartwright. Pippen, in classic form, refused to go back into a game because a last second play was drawn up for Toni Kukoc instead.

Nor did he stop the Lakers from infighting. Kobe Bryant and Shaq went after each other relentlessly in the press. His books basically state, nearly a decade apart in writing, that Kobe Bryant was virtually uncoachable and did essentially whatever he wanted and that Derek Fisher was the only thing that could reign him in and Fisher was probably the only thing keeping Kobe and Shaq from killing each other during the first three peat for the Lakers. Kobe Bryant did what he wanted. Never played defense, never passed the ball, violated the Triangle principles, froze out team mates, attacked other team mates in the press.

When has Jackson ever "reigned in" a player? He's a guy who is really good with the media, the media LOVES HIM because he's funny and gives them good quotes and plays the friendly coach card with them and wins because he has had some of the best players ever in the game. He also had good GMs in Krause and Jerry West and hands off owners who would write big checks and let him do what he wanted.

Chandler got moved IMHO because he was the only Knick this offseason with any trade value and his contract was nearly up and it was clear he wasn't coming back. Also the Knicks desperately need an infusion of youth, esp with a deep draft class this past off season.

IMHO Chandler is an example of sometimes its better to leave money on the table. He got a 20 million one year offer from Mark Cuban. He could have tried to repeat with Dallas that year and still got a nice payday contract after ward. Instead he went for the safe money and longer deal but on a clearly dysfunctional team that fit poorly together and where he would fit poorly with the other major core players on the roster. The league has seen Dirk, Duncan, Parker and Ginobili take less, way less, to stay on teams where they have a good fit and a good history, rather than venture out for more money and end up on teams with a bunch of other ass holes.

There's a saying, "The first time you hear a story, it's as good as it will ever get" Meaning every story has two sides and the truth usually is somewhere in the middle. Chandler could have done a lot of things better. Played harder, kept quiet in the press, not butted heads with Melo and CAA's rule of the team. On the flip side, the Knicks as a whole could have done a better job to create a better environment around Chandler and the rest of the team.

But let's not pretend Phil Jackson is regulating order like some cowboy in a crazed bandit filled Western. This is Melo's team, Melo has generally always gotten what he wanted and none of that has ever helped the Knicks to be contenders. This is Melo's team in so much as Chicago was Jordan's team and the Lakers were Kobes team.

just read this so-called "article" and wow this kid schlosser is trash. is he actually getting paid for this? and by the way the phrase is "rein in" as in a horse's reins-- not reign. just pointless, gossipy garbage taking up space on the internet.

as to your assessment of coaching being a bunch of bs, i don't know if that's entirely true. i see coaching more as teaching and mentoring, and as the playoffs continue on and the competition more fierce, that teaching and mentoring becomes more important even as it morphs into something akin to truth-telling and leadership. you see it in the timeouts with popovich and rivers especially.

I disagree about Schlosser. He writes for Ridiculous Upside also. Not sure that he gets paid. He had a knick blog for a long time but then went to the Knicksblog as their lead writer. They have some names that write there so he might be getting a salary.
Funny that you keep correcting people on the use of 'reign in'. Last time I think you were called an @sshole by one of the more respected guys here that doesn't go there when posting.

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

The Knicks want to change up the culture in the team’s locker room, and by trading Chandler, Jackson and co. have sent a message that any chemistry issues needs to be dealt with internally. Expressing himself through the media wasn’t the best method of action for the big man. Such a strategy was considered a big problem with Jackson’s Bulls and Lakers teams. He finds a way to reign such players in, but in this case, parting ways happened to be the chosen course of action.

http://theknicksblog.com/knicks/tyson-ch...

I think it's an illusion in the modern NBA to think that any coach has real "control" of their team.

I see all the time that people say a coach has "lost his team" and that " the players have tuned out" and the media narrative is that the coach must be incompetent and bad at his job. I also see fans talk about teams need a coach like Poppovich, that players "can respect" and can "lead men"

I think it's all a bunch of happy horse shit to be honest.

Poppovich was blessed to have two of his core stars to be born and learned the game overseas. Where the culture promoted team basketball. He was also blessed with two No 1 picks overall, both elite HOF big men, one from a military education background, with that discipline, the other to be a very humble player who is naturally team oriented.

A lot easier to win that way than to get stuck with a guy like Baron Davis ( got fat, only put in effort in contract years, would be a locker room jerk when he had a big contract, would rather be a celebrity "icon" like so many other of the young US born African American players in the league who can't be satisfied being an NBA star but also want to be rappers, movie actors, have their own clothing line, be a sports agent and hang out with other movie stars )

Phil Jackson was not regulating crap of anything. Jordan simply existed in a time before social media and a time before the media could destroy him. Jordan routinely mocked and disrespected his GM Jerry Krause. He and Pippen openly tortured and froze out Rodney McCray for the crime of not being Walter Davis. Jordan punched out Steve Kerr because Kerrs kid has the gall to be better in a one on one game than Jordans kid. Jordan openly bullied and tried to broker conflict with Bill Cartwright. Pippen, in classic form, refused to go back into a game because a last second play was drawn up for Toni Kukoc instead.

Nor did he stop the Lakers from infighting. Kobe Bryant and Shaq went after each other relentlessly in the press. His books basically state, nearly a decade apart in writing, that Kobe Bryant was virtually uncoachable and did essentially whatever he wanted and that Derek Fisher was the only thing that could reign him in and Fisher was probably the only thing keeping Kobe and Shaq from killing each other during the first three peat for the Lakers. Kobe Bryant did what he wanted. Never played defense, never passed the ball, violated the Triangle principles, froze out team mates, attacked other team mates in the press.

When has Jackson ever "reigned in" a player? He's a guy who is really good with the media, the media LOVES HIM because he's funny and gives them good quotes and plays the friendly coach card with them and wins because he has had some of the best players ever in the game. He also had good GMs in Krause and Jerry West and hands off owners who would write big checks and let him do what he wanted.

Chandler got moved IMHO because he was the only Knick this offseason with any trade value and his contract was nearly up and it was clear he wasn't coming back. Also the Knicks desperately need an infusion of youth, esp with a deep draft class this past off season.

IMHO Chandler is an example of sometimes its better to leave money on the table. He got a 20 million one year offer from Mark Cuban. He could have tried to repeat with Dallas that year and still got a nice payday contract after ward. Instead he went for the safe money and longer deal but on a clearly dysfunctional team that fit poorly together and where he would fit poorly with the other major core players on the roster. The league has seen Dirk, Duncan, Parker and Ginobili take less, way less, to stay on teams where they have a good fit and a good history, rather than venture out for more money and end up on teams with a bunch of other ass holes.

There's a saying, "The first time you hear a story, it's as good as it will ever get" Meaning every story has two sides and the truth usually is somewhere in the middle. Chandler could have done a lot of things better. Played harder, kept quiet in the press, not butted heads with Melo and CAA's rule of the team. On the flip side, the Knicks as a whole could have done a better job to create a better environment around Chandler and the rest of the team.

But let's not pretend Phil Jackson is regulating order like some cowboy in a crazed bandit filled Western. This is Melo's team, Melo has generally always gotten what he wanted and none of that has ever helped the Knicks to be contenders. This is Melo's team in so much as Chicago was Jordan's team and the Lakers were Kobes team.

just read this so-called "article" and wow this kid schlosser is trash. is he actually getting paid for this? and by the way the phrase is "rein in" as in a horse's reins-- not reign. just pointless, gossipy garbage taking up space on the internet.

as to your assessment of coaching being a bunch of bs, i don't know if that's entirely true. i see coaching more as teaching and mentoring, and as the playoffs continue on and the competition more fierce, that teaching and mentoring becomes more important even as it morphs into something akin to truth-telling and leadership. you see it in the timeouts with popovich and rivers especially.

I disagree about Schlosser. He writes for Ridiculous Upside also. Not sure that he gets paid. He had a knick blog for a long time but then went to the Knicksblog as their lead writer. They have some names that write there so he might be getting a salary.
Funny that you keep correcting people on the use of 'reign in'. Last time I think you were called an @sshole by one of the more respected guys here that doesn't go there when posting.

if you used that name-calling strategy it meant he was on the losing side of a debate and was too much of an @sshole to admit it. not a respectable way to conduct oneself, in case you needed some pointers on being an adult.

i don't have a problem admitting when i am wrong but there's no excuse for a "writer" being illiterate.

tyson is a big gaping vagina,

this guy blew nuts in the playoffs and let hibbert make a lady out of him,

then he threw everyone under the bus.

it's one thing to under-perform, we're all human, but to throw the team under the bus, to give up on the team publicly, this is something without good excuse

gunsnewing wrote:Tyson would have been correct just like Kobe and Shaq were. Tyson was not in the Knicks future plans for other reasons

Yeah like did Phil get West to trade Kobe

When Kobe was threatening to leave L.A.

While there once told Tex Winters

The Triangle Guru after Tex told Kobe he plays stupid

He went to the press and fired back telling Tex

You coach stupid

Phil is picking and choosing

Just like any other status quo exec

There couldn't have been any more divisive

Characters on this team than Melo, J.R., and Amare last year

Unfortunately Phil has proven he doesn't have the juice

To trade J.R. or Amar'e(I bet Masai would have)

And for some odd reason developed a creepy affinity for Melo

I'm not sure about the last statement. Something happen between phil and dolan that led to giving into all of melo's demands. Early on Phil was very lukewarm about Melo's free agency. "If he stays great, if he goes then that's great too" - paraphrasing

Melo is Dolan's big ticket. Dolan has proven over the years he has no interest in rebuilding by drafting and developing his own stars. Despite other New York teams having success through the draft. In Dolan's mind it is not possible in New York

F500ONE wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Tyson would have been correct just like Kobe and Shaq were. Tyson was not in the Knicks future plans for other reasons

Yeah like did Phil get West to trade Kobe

When Kobe was threatening to leave L.A.

While there once told Tex Winters

The Triangle Guru after Tex told Kobe he plays stupid

He went to the press and fired back telling Tex

You coach stupid

Phil is picking and choosing

Just like any other status quo exec

There couldn't have been any more divisive

Characters on this team than Melo, J.R., and Amare last year

Unfortunately Phil has proven he doesn't have the juice

To trade J.R. or Amar'e(I bet Masai would have)

And for some odd reason developed a creepy affinity for Melo

Honestly i dont think there is a single player on this team that Phil covets....Melo included. Keep in mind he wanted Melo to opt in basically as a "try and see", just like Chicago wanted to do.

It's gonna be some interesting developments if this experiment doesnt work out.

knickscity wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Tyson would have been correct just like Kobe and Shaq were. Tyson was not in the Knicks future plans for other reasons

Yeah like did Phil get West to trade Kobe

When Kobe was threatening to leave L.A.

While there once told Tex Winters

The Triangle Guru after Tex told Kobe he plays stupid

He went to the press and fired back telling Tex

You coach stupid

Phil is picking and choosing

Just like any other status quo exec

There couldn't have been any more divisive

Characters on this team than Melo, J.R., and Amare last year

Unfortunately Phil has proven he doesn't have the juice

To trade J.R. or Amar'e(I bet Masai would have)

And for some odd reason developed a creepy affinity for Melo

Honestly i dont think there is a single player on this team that Phil covets....Melo included. Keep in mind he wanted Melo to opt in basically as a "try and see", just like Chicago wanted to do.

It's gonna be some interesting developments if this experiment doesnt work out.

And yet agreed to sign him to a contract

At the opposite end of the light spectrum

Nevertheless it doesn't speak to his inability

To move the other divisive players(Shumpert another)

Maybe it's still too young to declare verdict

I do find it intriguing he moved A.S.A.P. on Ty and Felts

I think Ty asked to be moved at his exit interview

F500ONE wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Tyson would have been correct just like Kobe and Shaq were. Tyson was not in the Knicks future plans for other reasons

Yeah like did Phil get West to trade Kobe

When Kobe was threatening to leave L.A.

While there once told Tex Winters

The Triangle Guru after Tex told Kobe he plays stupid

He went to the press and fired back telling Tex

You coach stupid

Phil is picking and choosing

Just like any other status quo exec

There couldn't have been any more divisive

Characters on this team than Melo, J.R., and Amare last year

Unfortunately Phil has proven he doesn't have the juice

To trade J.R. or Amar'e(I bet Masai would have)

And for some odd reason developed a creepy affinity for Melo

it is a shame that jackson knuckled under but i agree that overall he seems highly ambivalent about the entire enterprise. so far as a creepy affinity... that may be going a bit too far.

so far as phil picking and choosing-- i think you are spot on. but you know what else? jackson has been accused of opening his big fat mouth too much in the past, and although i find candor refreshing, jackson has an unfortunate habit of misspeaking. two ideas are being conflated concerning the subject of "chemistry" with the usual misinterpretation: one idea is the brittle dysfunction in the organization and on the ill-conceived roster, and the other is becoming a bad fit in a newly-installed system.

F500ONE wrote:

knickscity wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Tyson would have been correct just like Kobe and Shaq were. Tyson was not in the Knicks future plans for other reasons

Yeah like did Phil get West to trade Kobe

When Kobe was threatening to leave L.A.

While there once told Tex Winters

The Triangle Guru after Tex told Kobe he plays stupid

He went to the press and fired back telling Tex

You coach stupid

Phil is picking and choosing

Just like any other status quo exec

There couldn't have been any more divisive

Characters on this team than Melo, J.R., and Amare last year

Unfortunately Phil has proven he doesn't have the juice

To trade J.R. or Amar'e(I bet Masai would have)

And for some odd reason developed a creepy affinity for Melo

Honestly i dont think there is a single player on this team that Phil covets....Melo included. Keep in mind he wanted Melo to opt in basically as a "try and see", just like Chicago wanted to do.

It's gonna be some interesting developments if this experiment doesnt work out.

And yet agreed to sign him to a contract

At the opposite end of the light spectrum

Nevertheless it doesn't speak to his inability

To move the other divisive players(Shumpert another)

Maybe it's still too young to declare verdict

I do find it intriguing he moved A.S.A.P. on Ty and Felts

I think Ty asked to be moved at his exit interview

He wanted to try and see, Phil wasnt dumb enough to start completely over as he knows he doesnt have time on his side. As far the other players, in reality they arent that good so trading them wouldnt yield much of value. I think Phil moved Tyson merely to get rid of Felton, the other pieces acquired was bonus material that likely wont be worse than Felton.

But imo he did leave a major hole at center....nobody on the roster even collectively replaces that.

It was bad team and bad organization (the worst in pro sport).
And it was bad year for Tyson.
He get hurt and never recovered his game.
What was going on in locker-room we do not know. Just rumors.
In any case everybody had bad taste in the mouse left.
So every veteran should go.
Melo is another story - he is above all this. He is the Star.
His character is irrelevant.
We see more player go and complain. No biggy.

Tyson dogged it for two years... He was never really that good. a glorified Ervin Johnson on the super sonics... Dude was praised for averaging 7&7 ... How can someone who is so average he a locker room leader lol... Good ridden e to the most over rated center in the league. He also messed with stat and Melos development ... I always thought stat should be the one getting all those pick and rolls instead of brick hands Tyson .... Tyson = over rated trash chem killer .... Dude still hasn't learned to dribble, pass , shoot, that's a lot of the game he didn't have a clue on... Can't wait to see all the fans in Dallas complain about him this upcoming year... Thanks for getting us a Greek freak,early bird,Larkin,Sammy,and caldron... So in that realm you weren't completely useless!