Knicks · outside J.Calderon other Knicks PGs lack stuff. Don't like roster *Cause Where is D' coming from ? What's going on here? (page 1)

Outside the Triangle Offense which GUARDs even on bad NBA teams the Knicks PGs going to intimidate or Scare ?

Help me/us this Knick fan this pre-season. Dont expect the world maybe playoffs? I was more confident in summer but
Team put together this preseason is missing something other than getting TRIANGLE offense down pat.

Can Derek Fisher(coach) suit up ? for PG teachings.

But I dont get this roster for the life of me! 1st Quincy Acy ? yes he showed some energy which is all he's brought here for.
Then why we got Travis 'old' Outlaw? wasnt Outlaw claim to NBA fame energy? What's he done in league recent 4-7 years.

Now Big guys Illunga-Mbenga ? You mean to tell me that Mbenga is better than Jeremy Tyler(i.e. now lakers)
Travis Outlaw? better than Shannon Brown?

And furthermore Mbenga? what's he here for ?

As far as Quincy Acy You mean NY Knicks could not have signed ..Acy lookalike Reggie Evans ?
At least Regging Evans aint getting in game & when Reggie is in game he's good for 8-10 boards & some Defense stated in my post.

Acy isn't going to do a damn thing for Knickerbockers. He will block shot vs. guys whom cant play.oh god.
I didnt even know this chap Acy was in NBA! before. Oh What the hell!

You look at all current NBA bad teams and playoffs teams. Each got point guards plural/many. Knicks got what 3-4 PGs here?
Don't take much to please Melo Anthony outside new $$$$$$$ contract.

Whom we got? J.Calderone I like Jose and he's seasoned VET but Shane Larkin backup? Paublo Priggly?
You mean to tell me that Rodney Stuckey (2 way guard) wasn't available and better coming here to NY than Stuckey ending in Indiana.

What's this PG NY setup here Larkin/Jose and Paublo? Which NBA PGs this going to scare this NBA 2014/15 season eh?

You mean to tell me PART2, that Mr. Darren Collision(PG/SG) now on KINGs, wasnt available ? another 2way guard better than FELTON
and available/cheap. What about Ramon Sessions(PG) now also on Sacra-tomatoe Kings.

You mean to tell me PART3, that teams rather have Travis 'Bo' Outlaw on team vs. Carl Landry?(available scorer, sometimes defender)

You mean to tell me PART4 Mr. Dhante Jones isnt better than few of these bench Knick invites..to be cut?
You mean to tell me that Chris Douglass Roberts ..here in summer wasnt' seasoned or tender invite back in fall, since Torre Murray
wasn't in plans, At least Chris Douglass Roberts was no worse than Torrey Murray, play a little point, plays a lil' D & yes has
scored some points in NBA before.

experienced D.Roberts more compatible here to do something off the bench? as swing guard.

Outside this NBA 'RICH & FAMOUS' Spurs, Cavs, Bulls, Clips, Warriors, Wiz, Mavs, Blazers, Heat & even George-less Pacemakers,

But lets see how many teams our squad is BETTER than? out the gate. OR simpler whom is BETTER easiest than 2014/15 our Knicks boyz.

Throw in obvious elite Cavs, Bulls, Heat, Spurs, Okc, Rockets, Clippers, Griz, Blazers & Warriors.
LEMME' see now That is 10 automatic nba teams elite to whip as_s.

Throw is rest of NBA 2014/15 playoff contender teams predicted success, ... Let's count with DJ please,
Pacers?, Wizards, Raptors, Nets, Suns, Hawks, Hornets & Nuggets.

LEMME' part2 that is 8 NBA teams not elite but good teams & yes made NBA playoffs 2013/2014.. many in playoffs several yrs.

Now we have 30 NBA teams,
which LEMME' see part3 now (10 + 8) = 18 NBA teams.

SO I am either off OR crazy probably both you mean to tell me these 2014/2015 NBA Knicks of Derek Fisher has 18 teams BETTER Than Knick current edition and our Knicks boyz are only better than 11 has-been NBA teams ?

NOW I'm gonna list them Also-ran rosters.
You all know whom they are!

Lakers,Celtics,Pelicans,Bucks,76ers,Wolves,Pistons,Magic,Jazz & Sacratomato Kings

I can argue Celtics, Lakers on above team rosters are also BETTER than Knicks.

I'll prove it by taking away each #1 lead player from teams,
You take away KOBE from Lakers,
You take away Rondo from Celtics,
& yes finally take away Melo from Knicks.

Compare rosters then and see what I'm talking bout'!

LA Lakers roster
http://www.nba.com/lakers/roster

Bos Celts roster
http://www.nba.com/celtics/roster

Also Throw in the Available PFs like Ed Davis & Carl Landry. Neither old NBA players. Both Ed Davis and Landry were nba playoffs
experienced past few yrs on good teams.

I dont like THIS KNICK roster outside J.Calderon & rookie Cleveanthony, T.Hardway JR. & Yes MELO of course.
Heaven help Melo's health and season!

My complaint is This KNICKS roster Guardwise is worst as far as Point guard play than most of the 30 NBA teams.

Torre Murry wasnt much but played D' a little and had been working on his PG game as a backup, if NY wanted to go cheap $$$$$.

Knicks guards will get KILLED on offensive end when they are force to create.

JUST as KNICKS PGs Got Killed always since S.Marbury, Derek Harper & Charlie Ward, Mark Jackson and Rod Strickland days
ended 2 decades ago!

20 years and we've yet to establish Point guards in this town of NYC Knickerbocker basketball.
amazing!

This year is not about contending. It's about shedding the deadweight (Amare, Bargs) and seeing what we have in the players who are already here. If we don't make the playoffs, perfectly fine: We have our draft pick.

If we do, nice surprise, we have loads of cap space next offseason to entice quality FA's. Whether we are better or worse than anyone expects Phil et al will hopefully instil order in the front office and Fisher on the bench and we can unload any of the Pieces that fail their audition this year. Why make significant moves when we aren't going to contend?

Second of all are you really complaining about getting minimum level guys like Acy, Mbenga, and Outlaw? What do they cost us long term? Let me tel you: Nothing. If they play well, great! If not, there's the exit onto 34th street. Low risk, high reward with guys like Acy. Vets like Outlaw can contribute in other ways besides the court.

I think you're thinking about this team and this season all wrong. This is just the very beginning of what is hopefully a coherent long term plan.

there were NO moves available this offseason that would've make us contenders and any moves that would of made us marginally better were probably second rate starphuck fantasies where we'd give up draft picks and mortgage the future for the same old shitty type players we've always acquired to plug holes in a leaking ship.

I'm absolutely ecstatic it looks like we aren't making the same old moves and making panic deals.

Do you really think there were any moves to be made this summer that wouldve put us in the top 3 in the east? Or made us into a team that could go 7 games with the Spurs or Clips?

The anewer is hell no.

is this a "who can write the longest post" post?

mreinman wrote:is this a "who can write the longest post" post?

Shortest!

There is no sense to the outrage. The roster isn't a finished product it's a start. We all know next summer will provide a chance to make some moves but for right now this is a trial run to see who should stay. Besides worrying about the makeup of the team right now is missing the point. We have enough to compete in the East. This system doesn't require a breakdown PG. Acy is a nice energy guy and Outlaw may not even make the team.

We've got young players to develop as well. No worries. We have our pick and contracts will be up and likely ready to be traded at the deadline.

DJ I think you are thinking of Bo Outlaw. Travis is reported to be a good locker room guy but not that great of a player.

The roster is not a finised product. Lets face it this is a 2-3 year process. Once we can get rid of the bad contracts then we can start to add better pieces and by that time establish a team structure. Id rather get a good draft pick then next summer when we have cap space start to add more pieces around melo. At teh same time develop some of the younger players.

we definitely need a faster PG who is a vet. shane larkin is going to take some time learning the triangle and prigioni is just too slow.

Splat wrote:

mreinman wrote:is this a "who can write the longest post" post?

Shortest!

Linvak sux

Watch the pre season is not that bad. Stop living in limbo. Deal with reality. We look fine or there for now. Things will start to really come together in a few weeks. Relax and take the time to enjoy the team.

EnySpree wrote:Watch the pre season is not that bad. Stop living in limbo. Deal with reality. We look fine or there for now. Things will start to really come together in a few weeks. Relax and take the time to enjoy the team.

Agreed. It seems like a high level of panic after 5 pre-season games.

When does the statute of limitations run out for the school girl crush on Lin from 2011?

Were in deep sht at the PG spot

and were all over the place with the line ups. I know its preseason but this really does look like a 35-38 win team. I dont want to say that and by God If Calderon gets hurtit will be a nightmare. I think well be ok ??

Sangfroid wrote:

EnySpree wrote:Watch the pre season is not that bad. Stop living in limbo. Deal with reality. We look fine or there for now. Things will start to really come together in a few weeks. Relax and take the time to enjoy the team.

Agreed. It seems like a high level of panic after 5 pre-season games.

I'm enjoying pre-season and the willingness to explore players' abilities. I'd panic if we still had Woodson, but I trust in Phil and now Fish. This has been pretty interesting actually, not anxiety producing.

foosballnick wrote:When does the statute of limitations run out for the school girl crush on Lin from 2011?

When does the statute of limitations run out on using Lin as a way to bait other posters?

BRIGGS wrote:Were in deep sht at the PG spot

and were all over the place with the line ups. I know its preseason but this really does look like a 35-38 win team. I dont want to say that and by God If Calderon gets hurtit will be a nightmare. I think well be ok ??

If you thought we were a contender already, I could see worrying about depth at any position. But this is a transition year no matter what. If we make the playoffs, we still can't win. So what is there to be anxious about?

This is the first time in 15 years I've felt we have management that gets the big picture. That means not worrying about this year, but looking forward to our future finally. If a few things go right, we can be in the mix in a year or two. That's cool by me.

Getting worked up about this year seems pointless to me. Why do that to yourself?

I could care less about Lin at this point myself. It was stupid as hell not to make him an offer. Could have had him for much less than he got from Houston if we showed good faith, but that is all water under the bridge.

All that matters now is progress. Is Jose an upgrade? Yes

The key thing is no longer about what woulda coulda shoulda happened, but do we have management now that would retain a surprise like Lin if we picked up someone on the cheap and they produced? The answer is probably a big yes.

So that is the glass half full perspective.

Onwards

I thought Larkin looked a lot better tonight.

BRIGGS wrote:Were in deep sht at the PG spot

and were all over the place with the line ups. I know its preseason but this really does look like a 35-38 win team. I dont want to say that and by God If Calderon gets hurtit will be a nightmare. I think well be ok ??

Agree briggs.. 150%

That is whole point of my point on PG. Of Course we'll take time to develop some respectable defense
however ..I'd/DJ feel whole helluva lot BETTER if we had a PG OR 2 whom was respected & brought some identity
to point guard play.

I maintain we Live & GROW and GO With the guard play of point.

Unless we get a PG whom can establish themselves as either driving to paint, & dissing
OR leading in Assists (top 10) OR even getting to Foul line to help NY win games is where I'd be most happy.

But I am happy with D.Fisher deameanor, Phil Jackson intent its all about next season
however NBA east isn't that good!! outside NBA Bulls, Cavs and perhaps the new Wizards and toss in Pacers out of respect.

Thus I maintain even if about next yr, MELO Knicks can make playoffs easy with 40-46 win season
if they get the Point ! <pg> if ya hearing what I am saying. Nothing to disrespect Calderone I like him & he's a starter
but Jose C. aint playing full 72-82 games, so we are in trouble at PG past that. Shumpert aint a point & Shane Larkin isn't a starter.

DJMUSIC wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Were in deep sht at the PG spot

and were all over the place with the line ups. I know its preseason but this really does look like a 35-38 win team. I dont want to say that and by God If Calderon gets hurtit will be a nightmare. I think well be ok ??

Agree briggs.. 150%

That is whole point of my point on PG. Of Course we'll take time to develop some respectable defense
however ..I'd/DJ feel whole helluva lot BETTER if we had a PG OR 2 whom was respected & brought some identity
to point guard play.

I maintain we Live & GROW and GO With the guard play of point.

Unless we get a PG whom can establish themselves as either driving to paint, & dissing
OR leading in Assists (top 10) OR even getting to Foul line to help NY win games is where I'd be most happy.

But I am happy with D.Fisher deameanor, Phil Jackson intent its all about next season
however NBA east isn't that good!! outside NBA Bulls, Cavs and perhaps the new Wizards and toss in Pacers out of respect.

Thus I maintain even if about next yr, MELO Knicks can make playoffs easy with 40-46 win season
if they get the Point ! <pg> if ya hearing what I am saying. Nothing to disrespect Calderone I like him & he's a starter
but Jose C. aint playing full 72-82 games, so we are in trouble at PG past that. Shumpert aint a point & Shane Larkin isn't a starter.

Ok, yes, the east is weak and we can get into the playoffs with even just a couple halfway decent upgrades over what we have now.

First off: What would we have had to have given up in terms of lost flexibility in the future and/or draft picks? Most assuredly more than we have up to get Calderon and all the pieces we got with him (which includes some nice young players who have a chance to contribute). Calderon has 3 years left, ok, that's the trade off but really he's tradeble in his last year at 7.5 million. A contender will pay up for a guy who doesn't turn the ball over and shoots near 45% from 3 no matter how bad the D.

This all leads to my second point: OK so we make the playoffs this season in a weak eastern conference. WE STILL ARENT CONTENDERS! Chicago, Cleveland, SanAn, etc would all annihilate this squad with only some marginal moves and lets face it there were not any realistic moves to be made that would've put us on par with the elite teams of the NBA.

Personally I'd rather get into the lottery next season as the team learns the offense and gradually improves. Especially because the draft lottery is going to be tweaked so that all lottery teams have a good shot at landing a top pick. We take that pick and the gobs of FA money in 2015 and THEN with the TV money after that we can build a true contender.

DJMUSIC wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Were in deep sht at the PG spot

and were all over the place with the line ups. I know its preseason but this really does look like a 35-38 win team. I dont want to say that and by God If Calderon gets hurtit will be a nightmare. I think well be ok ??

Agree briggs.. 150%

That is whole point of my point on PG. Of Course we'll take time to develop some respectable defense
however ..I'd/DJ feel whole helluva lot BETTER if we had a PG OR 2 whom was respected & brought some identity
to point guard play.

I maintain we Live & GROW and GO With the guard play of point.

Unless we get a PG whom can establish themselves as either driving to paint, & dissing
OR leading in Assists (top 10) OR even getting to Foul line to help NY win games is where I'd be most happy.

But I am happy with D.Fisher deameanor, Phil Jackson intent its all about next season
however NBA east isn't that good!! outside NBA Bulls, Cavs and perhaps the new Wizards and toss in Pacers out of respect.

Thus I maintain even if about next yr, MELO Knicks can make playoffs easy with 40-46 win season
if they get the Point ! <pg> if ya hearing what I am saying. Nothing to disrespect Calderone I like him & he's a starter
but Jose C. aint playing full 72-82 games, so we are in trouble at PG past that. Shumpert aint a point & Shane Larkin isn't a starter.

You and Briggs really don't have a good take on this PG issue. For one thing Jose even at this age is still a top 20 PG in this league at the least. Many have him higher than that. Secondly this offense isn't really predicated on a penetrating PG. Thirdly it's not realistic to expect a lot of PG assists either. Phil's teams have never had a big assist PG. The Triangle doesn't lend itself to high PG assists.

Also please note that Phil has had SG's play "PG" for him over the years, tho technically there isn't really a PG in the Triangle Offense. He's used Derek Harper and Brian Shaw as ball handlers. It's really a lack of understanding of how the Triangle works to worry so much about the PG spot. PG is minimized in the Triangle. Not that you don't need good ball handlers, but they don't have to be prototypical ball dominant PG's. Derek Fisher wasn't a major penetrating PG, tho he'd do it on occasion. Most of Phil's PG's were either big defensive guys or great 3pt shooters. Jose, Larkin and Prigs is adequate for now. I'm sure that Phil is already looking at upgrading the position, but it's going to be based on his idea of what he needs at that spot and not the typical PG role.