Knicks · My Official Starting Lineup (page 5)

It's nice to be talking meaningful basketball again. The forum is rocking right now

Especially talking more about team play then trading bodies...i've seen a remarkable dip in Trade proposals (from respected posters anyway) so that's refreshing...i'd like to hear how we see the team as constructed much more than hear how someone would reconstruct them...

Loving the Phil sound bites and his slant on Spike did alter my view of spike, which was surprising as I kind of thought spike was untouchable...also gives me pause going into spikes triangle offense documentary...me thinks it may be too light for my taste.

Splat wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Splat wrote:Same fans, different board.

If you don't agree, you call the other person stupid or a know nothing.

if the problem follows you around from board to board maybe its you not the fans. Ive read your posts. You seem to know your stuff. You also seem totally incapable of seeing past your dislike for Amare. I get it. You want to move on. Not everyone feels that way and your feelings arent facts. If your going spout hate for the guy and not listen to anyone else's thoughts on the subject than I am pretty sure you just made yourself one of the "same fans" your complaining about.

Happy hump day. Glad to have to you aboard.

It is really simple. I answer you with my opinion when I respond to you without calling you stupid or saying you're ignorant of the game. And all I ask is that you do the same. State your case and agree to disagree. It is not asking for much and it keeps things sane while still having some common ground as Knicks fans.

And I think a good place to start is by letting go of this tendency some have to call other posters haters. It is pretty much a substitute term for labeling someone dismissively just like the other terms.

I don't hate Amare. I said he sucks so that was inflammatory and I can do better. But other than that, I have accounted for my opinion in enough detail to make my case about why he is not a very good fit.

Either way, I don't really care if he does play despite my opinion if he can be a net positive. You said he is a net positive, yet I don't know where you get that from. 55% is nice, but was Tyson a good player because he led the league in FG%? No.

Just answer me civilly how Stat's history of games where he often has had the worst +/- on the team is not a significant factor. I said teams often gain ground with him on the floor. How is this not relevant?

ok great. Thanks for explaining. Never did I insult you. I challenged you to say that Quincy has more impact than Amare. And I followed that by saying if you say yes I know I what I need to know about your NBA knowledge.

Why did the Knicks finish 16-5? What changed last year to produce so many quality wins?

What "history" of +/- are you talking about? Preseason? Last year? Honestly I could care less. You have made your opinion abundandtly clear. Very little interest in "real debate" with someone that starts with how "utterly useless" someone is. Sorry if I tried to hold you accountable. Saying Amare "padded his stats" and they "dont count because of Woodson's total disorganization" while the Knicks go 16-5 behind Amare's resurgance isnt much of a debate. Its you making stuff up to validate your opinion. If thats what is important you win. Amare is terrible and useless and every other player in the NBA is better.

You win. Go be happy.

fishmike wrote:

Splat wrote:That's exactly it.

Bargs and Stat are expensive insurance policies, not much more.

No future for either means their value is limited strictly to what can you do for me now. Today. Otherwise, you sit.

This is more likey it. I see Bargs as the man out. He's never been a good defender. He's never been a very effecient scorer. He's not a facilitator... he's the guy who is going to get squeezed. Amare can score however. Guys that shoot 55% arent black holes. Thats where the ball is supposed to stop! We will see what his body lets him do. If he can play he will be the guy that gets out there. Bargs is a mistake and everyone seems to get that. Amare just broke down but 25 minutes a night of 75% of his old self is still a great scoring big off the bench.

Larkin is a P&R guy and Fisher has said he likes Larkin/Early/THjr in that second unit. Add Amare and thats a good bench. Especially if he's giving you what we got late last year. Than its a great bench.

It is funny you mention Larkin/Early/THjr with Amare, i think that's how they were together in the 4th quarter, with i think JR and sometimes Jason Smith.

it will be interesting, I like Acy, but he feels like an off the bench option to spell a starter and give quality minutes, he doesn't strike me at 24 as a 36 minute player just yet.

maybe next year, but for now, i need my horses.

gunsnewing wrote:

Splat wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Splat wrote:Same fans, different board.

If you don't agree, you call the other person stupid or a know nothing.

if the problem follows you around from board to board maybe its you not the fans. Ive read your posts. You seem to know your stuff. You also seem totally incapable of seeing past your dislike for Amare. I get it. You want to move on. Not everyone feels that way and your feelings arent facts. If your going spout hate for the guy and not listen to anyone else's thoughts on the subject than I am pretty sure you just made yourself one of the "same fans" your complaining about.

Happy hump day. Glad to have to you aboard.

It is really simple. I answer you with my opinion when I respond to you without calling you stupid or saying you're ignorant of the game. And all I ask is that you do the same. State your case and agree to disagree. It is not asking for much and it keeps things sane while still having some common ground as Knicks fans.

And I think a good place to start is by letting go of this tendency some have to call other posters haters. It is pretty much a substitute term for labeling someone dismissively just like the other terms.

I don't hate Amare. I said he sucks so that was inflammatory and I can do better. But other than that, I have accounted for my opinion in enough detail to make my case about why he is not a very good fit.

Either way, I don't really care if he does play despite my opinion if he can be a net positive. You said he is a net positive, yet I don't know where you get that from. 55% is nice, but was Tyson a good player because he led the league in FG%? No.

Just answer me civilly how Stat's history of games where he often has had the worst +/- on the team is not a significant factor. I said teams often gain ground with him on the floor. How is this not relevant?

That's what these people don't get. They can't accept the fact that you have a different opinion. They want everyone to agree all the time and if you don't then they start slinging insults. It becomes personal.

For the most part I try to stick to basketball I will never personally attack someone behind a keyboard. Except for the occasional time when we are all joking around and having some fun.

Any we're not going to agree all the time. It's keeps the discussion going which is what a forum is about.

Everyone can't agree all the time. If you can argue with you or own family, teachers etc you can certainly argue on a forum. It makes things a lot more interesting

Opinion didnt come into it. Amare is useless was presented as fact. When the last time he was healthy and played a real role the Knicks played better, went 16-5 to finish the season that was dismissed by more of his one sided opinions. So I say OK tell me Acy is better than Amare and I know what I need to know and the dude cries about message boards and same fans different board.

Good stuff!

I think you are going to see Amare with that group of guys. Run and gun baby. Amare will flourish. He's had the most success in a fast past system. Not playing next to Melo and dribbling the ball off his feet in the half court. MELO and Amare are used to having space to operate

Check the highlights for yourself...

babyKnicks wrote:Especially talking more about team play then trading bodies...i've seen a remarkable dip in Trade proposals (from respected posters anyway) so that's refreshing...i'd like to hear how we see the team as constructed much more than hear how someone would reconstruct them...

Loving the Phil sound bites and his slant on Spike did alter my view of spike, which was surprising as I kind of thought spike was untouchable...also gives me pause going into spikes triangle offense documentary...me thinks it may be too light for my taste.

There are only so many changes I think one can make. Lets just get the style of play ironed out. People are treating these games like they count. This is the coach looking at things. Bench guys get tons of burn in the preseason to evaluate. Acy could look great in short spurts. Energy guy flying around making plays. Lets see how he looks for 25-30 minutes at a time and the holes in his game will show.

Im not trying to knock the guy's game. I just dont think anyone knows how good he is so you look at him for a long stretch. We saw end of last year what Amare brings when he's healthy. There isnt anything he needs to accomplish in the preseason aside from dont break anything (I know thats not easy for mr. glass).

fishmike wrote:

babyKnicks wrote:Especially talking more about team play then trading bodies...i've seen a remarkable dip in Trade proposals (from respected posters anyway) so that's refreshing...i'd like to hear how we see the team as constructed much more than hear how someone would reconstruct them...

Loving the Phil sound bites and his slant on Spike did alter my view of spike, which was surprising as I kind of thought spike was untouchable...also gives me pause going into spikes triangle offense documentary...me thinks it may be too light for my taste.

There are only so many changes I think one can make. Lets just get the style of play ironed out. People are treating these games like they count. This is the coach looking at things. Bench guys get tons of burn in the preseason to evaluate. Acy could look great in short spurts. Energy guy flying around making plays. Lets see how he looks for 25-30 minutes at a time and the holes in his game will show.

Im not trying to knock the guy's game. I just dont think anyone knows how good he is so you look at him for a long stretch. We saw end of last year what Amare brings when he's healthy. There isnt anything he needs to accomplish in the preseason aside from dont break anything (I know thats not easy for mr. glass).

one thing i picked up from the highlights was when NOEL started going off his defender was...

Notice in that clip Amare and Melo are never on the floor together and both get to operate with ample space.

Remember when Phil called our roster "clumsy"
Well it isn't clumsy now

gunsnewing wrote:Notice in that clip Amare and Melo are never on the floor together and both get to operate with ample space.

Remember when Phil called our roster "clumsy"
Well it isn't clumsy now

agreed, second unit maybe...not debating he's in the top two at the 4.

Shumpert is awesome in that clip. He doesn't need to be told to take it to the hole like JR & THJ. It comes naturally to him. So great to finally see plays designed for him instead of standing in the corner and watching Melo and JR. This just proves how unimaginative Woodson was. Melo desperately needed someone like Shumpert to step up yet woodson couldn't put him in a position to succeed. Telling him to go stand on the corner and watch Melo & JR took a lot less effort

gunsnewing wrote:Shumpert is awesome in that clip. He doesn't need to be told to take it to the hole like JR & THJ. It comes naturally to him. So great to finally see plays designed for him instead of standing in the corner and watching Melo and JR. This just proves how unimaginative Woodson was. Melo desperately needed someone like Shumpert to step up yet woodson couldn't put him in a position to succeed. Telling him to go stand on the corner and watch Melo & JR took a lot less effort

agreed...i'm pretty sure i would trip woodson down a flight of stairs for what he perpetrated last year...i mean, i guess we've all been there at one point, the dead man walking mailing it in time.

I like this clip:

gunsnewing wrote:Shumpert is awesome in that clip. He doesn't need to be told to take it to the hole like JR & THJ. It comes naturally to him. So great to finally see plays designed for him instead of standing in the corner and watching Melo and JR. This just proves how unimaginative Woodson was. Melo desperately needed someone like Shumpert to step up yet woodson couldn't put him in a position to succeed. Telling him to go stand on the corner and watch Melo & JR took a lot less effort

Shump being the sensitive guy he is (moody), literally had a black cloud over his head. You could see his fro getting wet from the little rainstorm as he stood in the corner watching Melo go ISO. Or him pouting when JR would look him off even though he was wide open. If his confidence is rebuilding, he is going to be a way better player on offense than most consider possible. And his points can all be gotten organically in the flow of the game. I think he is overcoming his conversion problems around the rim and with his hops back, he is going to have his share of highlight reel finishes at the rim this season.

Splat wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Shumpert is awesome in that clip. He doesn't need to be told to take it to the hole like JR & THJ. It comes naturally to him. So great to finally see plays designed for him instead of standing in the corner and watching Melo and JR. This just proves how unimaginative Woodson was. Melo desperately needed someone like Shumpert to step up yet woodson couldn't put him in a position to succeed. Telling him to go stand on the corner and watch Melo & JR took a lot less effort

Shump being the sensitive guy he is (moody), literally had a black cloud over his head. You could see his fro getting wet from the little rainstorm as he stood in the corner watching Melo go ISO. Or him pouting when JR would look him off even though he was wide open. If his confidence is rebuilding, he is going to be a way better player on offense than most consider possible. And his points can all be gotten organically in the flow of the game. I think he is overcoming his conversion problems around the rim and with his hops back, he is going to have his share of highlight reel finishes at the rim this season.

Right now Shump looks good. His moodiness will determine how he plays, wearing your emotions on you sleeves doesn't always come off as a team player. The fact that he mailed it in last year speaks volumes about Shump. He has to earn the trust.

I would be moody to if I was told to stand in a corner by an inept coach

gunsnewing wrote:I would be moody to if I was told to stand in a corner by an inept coach

Or "Here's a book of matches. Now go play in the gasoline barn."

My opinion

Calderon
Iman
CA
Jason Smith
Cole ALdrich (Center, could really make an arguement for any player here, but I see this is the best fit for both OFF in the triangle and DEF)

Larkin
Tim Hardaway JR
JR Smith
Acy
AB or STAT or Dalembert depending on match ups/rest etc...

2nd unit should be tweaked a bit, utilizing the strenghts of the players, running at least some PnR's

Whatever the lineup is i hope Fisher sticks with it. I used to get so annoyed with Woodson's new lineups each game, starting James White and only playing him 5 mins in the game then changing it up again. How do you start a guy, yet not even have him in the rotation? Never heard of such a thing. We led the league in different lineups the last couple years i think. Find a 5 that you like, a rotation, and ride it out. Let's get some continuity and allow players to get comfortable in their roles, whether they like it or not.

Knixkik wrote:Whatever the lineup is i hope Fisher sticks with it. I used to get so annoyed with Woodson's new lineups each game, starting James White and only playing him 5 mins in the game then changing it up again. How do you start a guy, yet not even have him in the rotation? Never heard of such a thing. We led the league in different lineups the last couple years i think. Find a 5 that you like, a rotation, and ride it out. Let's get some continuity and allow players to get comfortable in their roles, whether they like it or not.

Your mouth to gods ears

gunsnewing wrote:

Knixkik wrote:Whatever the lineup is i hope Fisher sticks with it. I used to get so annoyed with Woodson's new lineups each game, starting James White and only playing him 5 mins in the game then changing it up again. How do you start a guy, yet not even have him in the rotation? Never heard of such a thing. We led the league in different lineups the last couple years i think. Find a 5 that you like, a rotation, and ride it out. Let's get some continuity and allow players to get comfortable in their roles, whether they like it or not.

Your mouth to gods ears

fisher is going to have the same problem, Watch and see..