Knicks · Who Do You Trust? (page 1)

The 82 game season is a marathon that demands that any franchise with the intent to win as routine must be composed of players, not always the most talented, but the players who show up every night prepared. This new Knicks roster requires cohesion and consistency.

The players we need to win on a consistent basis must learn to trust each other in a variety of settings... from the 5 games in 6 nights western swing... to the timeout in The Garden with angry fans booing a sluggish performance...

The fundamental question is... not who looks good on paper, not who seems to be ready for an imagined breakout season... but based on the available EVIDENCE... and careful observation ...

... disposing of all the imaginary fake GM lineups, rotations, proposed trades and predicting the outcomes on paper, only one thing matters....trust.

The players who you can depend on, night in and night out.

"Who Do You Trust?"

Calderon
Prigioni
Dalembert
Anthony

That's it.

If that's it we got trouble

Its a good question since that lies at the heart of building a new culture.

And that is what Fish and Phil will figure out during the first half of the season.

They want to know who:

Buys into the system

Sacrifices stats to play winning ball

Takes care of their mind and body off the court

Pays attention during practices

Shows up to work on time ready to go every single day

Who studies voluntarily, not just during film sessions

Who learns and implements it

Who has got his teammates backs

-------------------------------

Sam, Pablo, Jose, Melo do qualify as steady guys you can count on doing their thing.

Melo as the Man has the most influence ultimately and thus most upside to improve in terms of leading by example and buying fully into a new way of playing.

-------------------------------

As for the rest, we'll find out.

Shump needs to become consistent to make the grade, but he could.

Jason needs to stay healthy to stay in the mix, but my vibe is he's a smart player and fits right into their plans and can be trusted to play within a scheme.

Acy looks like he's committed and if he is steady he could be a trusted member of the squad.

I don't expect JR, Bargs and probably not Stat to meet those standards, all for very different reasons.

JR may still show up hungover. Who knows which JR we'll get, but you cannot trust him at all. Ever. Guy is a looney tune. Comparing him to Rodman is silly IMO. Rodman was the outlier: a lunatic you could trust to produce every night.

Bargs is just not that committed IMO. I suspect he came to camp not in the condition he should have been in and he's falling behind.

Stat is committed, but he may not be able to adapt much so trusting him to play in a specific way is asking too much. He'll do what he does for as long as he stays healthy and is given time.

I think Cole is a steady person probably, yet he has never gotten enough consistent time to know how that translate on the court in terms of reliability.

We don't know about crack baby and Early yet. Maybe I missed someone.

I think Jason Smith becomes one of those guys and I think Hardaway is on his way to being one as well.

CrushAlot wrote:I think Jason Smith becomes one of those guys and I think Hardaway is on his way to being one as well.

Jason Smith last 3yrs played only 40, 51 & 31 games

he is an injury risk.
his mins should be monitored

CrushAlot wrote:I think Jason Smith becomes one of those guys and I think Hardaway is on his way to being one as well.

I forgot Tim. Fish has emphasized his respect for Tim's work ethic, so that is a good early sign. Pedigree may factor into it. He comes from a pro athlete family and that sometimes conditions kids for the life of pro sports.

But Tim was a 1-Way player last year. Talk is cheap. Let's see if he can be trusted to bust his nut on D.

I made the thread asking about a deep rotation because I actually think Fish is gonna have to pull guys when they aren't giving us what we need and also there will likely be some games lost to injury. It's really the reason I love what Phil has done with the roster. This team is 3 deep at every position and very interchangeable. A core of really dependable players needs a few more guys to show up from night to night. You can't expect everyone to be dependable on every night. What you hope for is just enough guys on your bench who get it going so you can win games. I think this team has a good mix of talent and guys who can get hot at any moment. Fish is the one who has to work the roster in order to get what we need every night. I think he can do it.

The evidence is already showing up in the way the team is defending already. I think once the rotation is set we'll get consistency from enough guys to be pretty good. This style of play isn't really about big performances as much as it's about a good team effort and everyone sticking to the team concept. Think Spurs in terms of nice spread out even performance from multiple guys. Everyone giving a little to the whole is what we're looking for. Not much different than what we're seeing in Preseason.

It will be interesting to see how quickly players get benched if they dog it on defense. Motivation changes real fast when your sense of entitlement evaporates. I expect to see some of the players have brief stints in the doghouse if they get lazy.

It could be a drastic cuts in minute for a game or more or a DNP. It works wonders and I look forward to seeing it happen. Woodson was the biggest wussie. Guy would mumble about accountability which drove me nuts to hear it from a total hypocrite like him.

Fish has a HUGE juice card. The players know Phil is 110% behind Fish and they will never win a battle against him. I think Fish has free reign to do things as his instincts dictate. It's a good situation for this team. As I said it's all about basketball.

Papabear Says

Believing is seeing results. I just don't know what to make of this team. I just don't think they are a good shooting team. I think they are slow and other teams will out run them. I hope that I am wrong and only time will tell. I'm not expecting too much and not expecting too much I won't get disappointed.

Splat = brilliant post above

(As for the rest, we'll find out.)

The Q(X) Factor

“[Knicks team president] Phil [Jackson] is not a man of many words, but he just says he loves my energy and told me to step up and take the shots with confidence when I get them. Just do what I do."

“Just help run the offense. It’s different for everybody. It requires a lot of thinking. Making sure I’m in the right places. Making sure I’m getting my teammates open, making sure I’m active on the boards and making open shots when given."

“Not a lot of guys in the league do the things I do. I take pride in it and take pride in my defense and take some pride in being a great overall teammate."

- Quincy Acy

Did somebody say Pulitzer?

TripleThreat, in one series of paragraphs, just outperformed what every paid beat writer in the New York submits in one month.

You sir, have raised the bar for excellence in writing. "We, who are about to die, salute you."

Pablo is NOT steady, he's injury prone and is not a good defender of a majority of the contending team point guards.

Watch the film...please.

I'd say, i trust melo, calderone, fisher and Phil...that's about it...i trust amare, but it remains to be seen if he's going to be fully bought in or is going to try and "get his"

Oh, and Jason Smith...i like what I'm seeing and hearing from him.

TripleThreat wrote:

misterearl wrote:The players we need to win on a consistent basis .....

.... are not on the current Knicks roster.

To win consistently in the NBA, you need

1) A minimum baseline of talent ( You need a core set of ingredients to bake a cake. There are essential components on the modern NBA contenders roster that are paramount and non negotiable for success. )

2) You need players on your roster who actually fit together well. ( The Heat were a case of overwhelming talent pushing through during a lockout shortened year and just barely won another year, but lost two years in the Finals to teams who had that minimum baseline of talent, a good roster fit and played team ball. The Heat roster never fit together well and it hurt them. )

3) You need to play team basketball and buy in for the greater good of the team, not the individual. This is key from your highest paid and/or most talented players on the roster.

LONG ANTI KNICK RAMBLE

Wow Triple, am i going to have to add you to the ignore list?

babyKnicks wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

misterearl wrote:The players we need to win on a consistent basis .....

.... are not on the current Knicks roster.

To win consistently in the NBA, you need

1) A minimum baseline of talent ( You need a core set of ingredients to bake a cake. There are essential components on the modern NBA contenders roster that are paramount and non negotiable for success. )

2) You need players on your roster who actually fit together well. ( The Heat were a case of overwhelming talent pushing through during a lockout shortened year and just barely won another year, but lost two years in the Finals to teams who had that minimum baseline of talent, a good roster fit and played team ball. The Heat roster never fit together well and it hurt them. )

3) You need to play team basketball and buy in for the greater good of the team, not the individual. This is key from your highest paid and/or most talented players on the roster.

LONG PREDICTABLE ANTI KNICK MELO RAMBLE

Wow Triple, am i going to have to add you to the ignore list?

Fixed.

TripleThreat wrote:

misterearl wrote:Did somebody say Pulitzer?

TripleThreat, in one series of paragraphs, just outperformed what every paid beat writer in the New York submits in one month.

You sir, have raised the bar for excellence in writing. "We, who are about to die, salute you."

Did somebody say Tony Robbins?

Because your weekly soft rip horseshit from some motivational infomercial isn't really going to help the Knicks win.

"...not always the most talented, but the players who show up every night prepared"

Guess what Tony Robbins, players who show up each night prepared are in good physical condition. Melo has been chronically out of shape pretty much his whole career. But you say everyone should "trust" that he will bring something positive each and every night for the Knicks?

Melo showing up out of shape is disgraceful. It's an insult to his profession, to his team, to the franchise and to all Knick fans. It's not excusable. That so many of you accept so little from the Knicks "franchise player" is honestly kind of sad.

Celebrating because the guy shows up in shape or somewhat like in shape. How sad is that. Celebrating players for the things they are supposed to do anyway as professionals. "He's says he's willing to try team ball!" Is that something really to get excited about from a 12 year veteran All Star with Team USA experience?

I don't need to raise the bar over every sportswriter in America, I just need to raise the bar over your soft serve motivational speech mush mouth horse shit.

Instead of this mythical super mojo "trust", I'd rather advocate crazy shit like floor spacing, defending the rim, transition defense, effective penetration from the point guard position, closing off passing lanes, setting hard picks, effective resource management, maximizing draft assets, mining for market inefficiencies in the 2nd round, international market and UDFAs, and on and on and on. I know, all that sounds like bat shit crazy stuff. Certainly not going to help the Knicks win over your vaunted "trust" factor. Right?

I love the Knicks, but I'm not going to put on the homer goggles and pretend that they are more right now than what they really are. I'm not going to pretend I'm looking at a steak when I'm front of a can of rotting sardines. There's a difference between hope and just outright delusion and some of you clearly don't see or understand the difference.

Anytime you want some misterearl, with your 4th rate Dale Carnegie mojo in tow, feel free to come get some.

this is just not accurate. Not at all, not even close. Doesnt pass? OK. Not commited to D? OK. Post season chucker who gets exposed? OK. Dont agree but I see the perception. Cronically out of shape? Maybe as a Nugget but he's always been ready to play for the Knicks. Sorry... gotta say fail on that one mate

TripleThreat wrote:

misterearl wrote:Did somebody say Pulitzer?

TripleThreat, in one series of paragraphs, just outperformed what every paid beat writer in the New York submits in one month.

You sir, have raised the bar for excellence in writing. "We, who are about to die, salute you."

Did somebody say Tony Robbins?

Because your weekly soft rip horseshit from some motivational infomercial isn't really going to help the Knicks win.

"...not always the most talented, but the players who show up every night prepared"

Guess what Tony Robbins, players who show up each night prepared are in good physical condition. Melo has been chronically out of shape pretty much his whole career. But you say everyone should "trust" that he will bring something positive each and every night for the Knicks?

Melo showing up out of shape is disgraceful. It's an insult to his profession, to his team, to the franchise and to all Knick fans. It's not excusable. That so many of you accept so little from the Knicks "franchise player" is honestly kind of sad.

Celebrating because the guy shows up in shape or somewhat like in shape. How sad is that. Celebrating players for the things they are supposed to do anyway as professionals. "He's says he's willing to try team ball!" Is that something really to get excited about from a 12 year veteran All Star with Team USA experience?

I don't need to raise the bar over every sportswriter in America, I just need to raise the bar over your soft serve motivational speech mush mouth horse shit.

Instead of this mythical super mojo "trust", I'd rather advocate crazy shit like floor spacing, defending the rim, transition defense, effective penetration from the point guard position, closing off passing lanes, setting hard picks, effective resource management, maximizing draft assets, mining for market inefficiencies in the 2nd round, international market and UDFAs, and on and on and on. I know, all that sounds like bat shit crazy stuff. Certainly not going to help the Knicks win over your vaunted "trust" factor. Right?

I love the Knicks, but I'm not going to put on the homer goggles and pretend that they are more right now than what they really are. I'm not going to pretend I'm looking at a steak when I'm front of a can of rotting sardines. There's a difference between hope and just outright delusion and some of you clearly don't see or understand the difference.

Anytime you want some misterearl, with your 4th rate Dale Carnegie mojo in tow, feel free to come get some.

A player that lead the league in minutes per, 2nd in the league in scoring, was grossly out of shape, I would like to see the jury that would side with you on that theory. A liitle out of shape, yes.

If he had help last season, he wouldn't have been warned down by the 4th qtr. When ever you have to lean on one individual so much, 2 thing are bound to happen. He's either going to injure himself, or be a shell of himself at the end of games.

It still amazes me how stuck in the past and negative some of us still are. It's as if we went thru the summer and changed nothing. It's as if Woody was never fired and Phil never accepted the job. It's as if we have the exact same roster as last year. It makes me wonder what the heck people are doing cuz they're certainly not paying attention to what's been happening here.

No this is not a perfect roster. That doesn't mean that this roster can't win games. I think MOST reasonable fans would be able to see the change that is taking place. It's not complete but you can see the beginning of the process and it's been good.

1. The roster is improved. It's more balanced. It's deeper. It's not the disaster some predicted from what we've seen so far. Dalembert has looked good. Jason has looked good. Even in his one stint Bargs looked good. Cole and STAT should be able to give us good minutes. I just don't see the problem there.

2. The team defense has gotten better overall and should get better still. We couldn't defend a PnR to save our lives last year and now the defense is much more sound.

3. The offense is still developing but the improvement is already starting. The passing is improving ad should continue to improve with more work.

4. Fish is showing a good ability to get thru to his players so far. This is a major sea change going from ISO to Triangle like this. It's hard to get vets to totally change their thinking as they have to in this system. Fish has been showing good judgement in terms of his testing of the starting lineup. He said he wanted the best Defense and Offense in his starters and he hasn't been afraid to go with an unexpected group in order to do that.

5. Melo is being more of a leader and adjusting well to the new system. He's allowing Fish to get the rest of the team comfortable carrying more of the load. Melo is trying to use the offense more and looking for teammates.

The media as usual is late to the party in terms of noting the changes and they're already predicting a pretty poor season. ESPN has the Knicks going 38-44. SCHOENE has us going 40-42 after predicting 37-45 last year, which I think was a fluke, but hey... Ohm Youngmisuk is predicting 42-40. I'm still looking to see what others are predicting but for the most part the results haven't been good. I think this team is going to be in contention for the Atlantic and possibly win the div. My early prediction was for them to win 50 games and I still feel they can do that.

The Number # 1 Positive Indicator in my book will be if this team buys into playing nasty defense.

That to me would be a sea change and cause for serious optimism, because you can continue upgrading the roster as you go along when you have a plan and leaders at the helm.

I'm happy so far, but I want dirty, ugly, winning D. Show me a team that plays that together and then I can say we may be building a new culture. That's what I want. Triangle Schmiangle. Nah, Triangle's cool too, but gimme some DDDDDDDDDDDDDD!!!!!!!

nixluva - your optimism is wonderful. Any predictions of wins and losses are crazy talk because every team in the NBA is different from last season. There is no way to assume how that change will play out. Predictions only help to pass the time until the real thing starts.

The essential question remains.... who can you trust?