Knicks · Who is our 2nd most VALUABLE player? (page 1)

ah easy one

Shumpert - best 2-way multi-dimensional player we drafted since Ewing

Then:
Calderon
Dalembert
Acy
THJ
Jason

Calderon - we have seen what it's like with sub standard point guard play.

Tim Hardaway JR has the 2nd most value on this team by 10000000000 miles He may not be our 2nd best player--but he has the 2nd most "value"

I voted for Amare. Not because I expect him to be our second most valuable player but because I think he deserves to have a great year - and if he does I think this team can be pretty good.

i voted for shumpert only because he is the only perimeter defender on the team. For a team full of players who dont play defense, i think shumpert is most important for shutting down (or at least minimalizing opposing guards)

Early is a rookie picked what 36? Even high 1 round picks need years to develop

folks, im referring to NOW as in this 2014-15 season. thanks

BRIGGS wrote:Tim Hardaway JR has the 2nd most value on this team by 10000000000 miles He may not be our 2nd best player--but he has the 2nd most "value"

I think you nailed it. There's not much value on this roster but Timmy has got to be the 2nd most valuable around the league. The second best player? We are starved for scorers so I could say Amare but given how injury prone is and that he doesn't look comfortable in the triangle, I gotta go with Jose. He is just very consistent and reliable. JR is too inconsistent imo. I wouldn't even consider anyone else.

If you are going to go THJ You might as well go with Amare. Both guys give you nothing but scoring. At least Amare does it consistently

This is value to this year's team correct?

Value around the league then you can put THJ up there. On par with Shumpert

My inner snark wanted me to say Melo was the second most valuable.

I picked Calderon, and as I think of how he is the second most valuable, I'd argue he is the most valuable, much like Kidd was for stretches during our prior season.

We now have a system in place that enables anyone to score when they have an open look. We need the floor general to get everyone into this style of play, and I think Calderon can do that.

We know Melo can score, and doing that single-handedly last year produced a lottery season.

We need Melo to score efficiently, and I don't know that he has ever proved he could do so on his own.

Hence, Calderon is more important, because as we rebuild, I could easily see someone else slip into Melo's slot and score- not as much, but efficiently, in the team concept and in a winning way.

I voted Amare. Calderon is important, but I think we dont need him to be anything besides Jose Calderon. That being said Amare's health with have the biggest impact. If he can play the 30ish minutes they have planned for him and stay 80% healthy the Knicks can be a really good team if Fisher can get them playing together. Even if they arent a great defense unit (but can at least get some stops) a healthy Amare/Melo/JR/THjr is some really nice firepower.

Amare will be the #2 impact player value wise next season. We saw what happened end of last year when he gets on a roll.

gunsnewing wrote:ah easy one

Shumpert - best 2-way multi-dimensional player we drafted since Ewing

Then:
Calderon
Dalembert
Acy
THJ
Jason

Ill give you $20 if you never mention Shump and Ewing in the same post again. At least until Shump is doing anything. Right now Shandon Anderson had a better Knick career. Please please please stop. Guy had 8 games he didnt score last year. 37 games he scored 5 points or less.

I would love Shump to blossom into a star. His career path so far as been closer to getting China bound. He will get the chance to have a breakout year it seems. Lets see how that plays out first? Please?

Well "needed" versus "valuable" is a bit different.

Jose is the most "needed" because minus the Jeremy Lin miracle, chitty PG play has screwed the team big time... last year if you had a decent PG, it was like an auto win for the opponent

THJ is the most "valuable" in the sense that I think he has the most value on the trade market

fishmike wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:ah easy one

Shumpert - best 2-way multi-dimensional player we drafted since Ewing

Then:
Calderon
Dalembert
Acy
THJ
Jason

Ill give you $20 if you never mention Shump and Ewing in the same post again. At least until Shump is doing anything. Right now Shandon Anderson had a better Knick career. Please please please stop. Guy had 8 games he didnt score last year. 37 games he scored 5 points or less.

I would love Shump to blossom into a star. His career path so far as been closer to getting China bound. He will get the chance to have a breakout year it seems. Lets see how that plays out first? Please?

I own a Shump jersey... I love his game... I would love for him to be the next Bruce Bowen but James Posey is probably his ceiling. That would be a HR for the Knicks. But people talk about him like he is going to figure the point out and become the next Gary Payton

Not Gary while SHUMP can play some point he is a SG. I always thought poor mans Spree and really poor mans Wade. Spree was our best 2-way multi-dimensional player since Ewing. Shump is the best 2-way multi-dimensional drafted since Ewing. Sorry Fish don't need the 20

I'm going to give a slight edge to Calderon over Amare. If Calderon has a good season I believe that rest of the team will follow in having a good year too. So much is predicated on point guard play.

I would go with Amare or calderone, but in all honesty, after melo the next 8 players are pretty much the same as far as what they bring to the table.

In 2k the ratings for our roster after melo are pretty much in the mid 70's, and thats from 2 to 15..which is why there's no clear cut starter after melo and perhaps calderone.

gunsnewing wrote:Not Gary while SHUMP can play some point he is a SG. I always thought poor mans Spree and really poor mans Wade. Spree was our best 2-way multi-dimensional player since Ewing. Shump is the best 2-way multi-dimensional drafted since Ewing. Sorry Fish don't need the 20

Spree walked into the NBA scoring 15-20ppg and getting after it on defense. 5 years in he was 3x all star.

You like Shump. I get it. Right now if your not a Knick fan hopelessly emotionally attached to this guy you know what you will see? An above average defender at a scoring position who cant score at all. No go to move, a putrid career FG% of 39% and has not put together one year where he can stay on the court.

He's not even half the player on either side of the ball that Wilson Chandler was at the same point in their career.

Headscratching the expectations for guys who have showed so little in their career around here.

How he is used and his role plays a big part. He had no role in the offense now he will. Woodson's stand in the corner and watch MELO and JR is not a role

JR Smith is by the most talented, however, his lack of maturity and willingness to break plays/jack up poor shots is detrimental to the team
I hope we are able to pump and dump him as I am done with his on the court and off the court antics

Tim Hardaway JR is learning off JR Smith's poor shot selection and should be pulled out everytime he heaves a poor shot, despite making it or not to correct his habit
He holds the most value in terms of "trade value" since he is locked in his rookie contract for a couple more years and has great scoring ability/shot/ and improved his ability to penetrate
If we can get back a 1st round pick in this years draft and 2 2nd round picks, I would easily say do it as I don't think he will ever be a better than average defender

STAT is our best post up option, however, he lacks IQ and the ability to create for the team by passing out of the post effectively like Pau Gasol did
His DEF is pretty bad, he can give you a block every now and then but his 1v1 DEF is horrible while his team DEF is a bit better while AB is the complete opposite

Calderon controls the tempo, has great shooting ability, has the ability to play on and off the ball, and will always look to get team mates involved
While is DEF is not good, it isn't as poor as Pablo's though
He was brought in as part of a culture change, to provide leadership, control the tempo, play on and off the ball, shoot the 3pter at a high % rate, and have a great TO/Assist ratio
We also were able to get 2 2nd round picks that turned in to Early/Tenacious and bought a 3rd pick to stash

Iman is by far our best defender, however, he needs to play with DEFENSIVE players that know how to pressure the opponents with him, like a Tenacious/Acy/Jason Smith and greater talents like a Noah
For that reason, I think he is the most valuable to the team
Iman plays without an ego and doesn't play hero ball, he doesn't play to get STAT's or numbers
I hate to use numbers to justify what a player is worth to the team but that is what GM's use to determine the value of a player and that is something CA understands, a reason why he loved Woodson's system
Iman will be a restricted FA and it is unlikely he will be extended unless he agrees to a short term deal in the range of 2.5m - 5m (max) probably closer to 3.5m per year on a 2 year deal, maybe 3rd year player/team option
IF Iman gets a contract like Fields, I think we are forced to let him go, as we are better of using the $ elsewhere as we already overpayed for CA and Calderon, both combining for 30m alone

AB is by far our worst recent trade, while we could have kept Copeland with our MINI MLE or maybe even offer him just a bit of it to stay like a 2-2.5m deal out of the 3.3m MLE
Instead we decided to use it on Pablo/MWP, which are mistakes on top of the Mini MLE prior to them with Jason Kidd...
We loss our 2016 1st round pick, and 2 2nd rounders as well, yes OKC's pick was the last pick of the draft but we could have used that pick to stash a player for future value
Lets not forget Isiah Thomas was the final pick of the draft, Jeremy Lin undrafted, some other 2nd round picks include Marc Gasol, Lance Stephenson, Manu, and many other talents

CA, yes he is a talented scorer but is he worth the contract he got, 5year 126m?
With his salary you could get many combinations of talents like

Al Jefferson
Millsap
Randy Foye/Speights/Hickson

We have our own 1st round pick this year and it would have been a high pick had we let CA go which will be 35 by the time his contract ends
Instead we are in the worst possible place we can be in the NBA, right in the middle
Maybe if we didn't trade for AB, Phil Jackson might have went another direction, in addition to the 2 2nd round picks as well
However, as talented as CA might be, I just don't think he is worth the sacrfices and cap spaces we have made while trying to build a team around him when he was here, digging a hole that we cannot get out of
At that price, he isn't even a leader/facilitator/lock down defender, we should have traded him prior to last season while we could have still got a lot of assets for him
Maybe he does have a big black book but if he is unable to lure any of his buddies over to come play with him, his contract hurts our flexbility, but lets see what happens next summer when we will have about 30m to spend in FA