Starting shump .. Although I like shump as a defensive juggler knot off the bench... You can't have your starting 2 guard throwing up 0 for 6's .. Thjr is more of a starting type of 2 guard and can spark the offense with melo and Calderon... Let shump come off the bench after our offense gets going .. Shump seems to get into the chemistry of the game better when it's already started, and he can become a contributor on the offense with less pressure of getting it started... I'm down with shump getting minutes esp at the end of games when we need a lock down defender ... Just not the start...we can't just put all the scoring pressure on melo to start the game we need a second scorer out there to get the offense going and defense is more important at the end of games... I don't see us winning much with shump starting.. Thjr for starting 2
Timmy and Calderon will not work defensively and neither can score enough to offset their individual ineptness on that end. It's funny so hear how Timmy is this second scorer, he's is as inconsistent as anyone. is 3-11 really any better than 0-6? overall all of the gaurds have been suspect on offense. but there is one, who moves well, looks to pass, rebound and play defense.....aint it isnt Timmy.
The problem is all 3 of our SGs are streaky as hell- Shump, JR, Tim Jr- they can all go 0 for 9 or 6 for 9 on any given night.
smackeddog wrote:The problem is all 3 of our SGs are streaky as hell- Shump, JR, Tim Jr- they can all go 0 for 9 or 6 for 9 on any given night.
But Shump can actually play lockdown defense every night. JR and THJr can't say the same thing.
VCoug wrote:smackeddog wrote:The problem is all 3 of our SGs are streaky as hell- Shump, JR, Tim Jr- they can all go 0 for 9 or 6 for 9 on any given night.
But Shump can actually play lockdown defense every night. JR and THJr can't say the same thing.
Exactly- JR and Tim Jr are pretty much useless if their jumper isn't falling, but at least Shump can help with his defense.
We need more offensive fire power to set the tone of the game shump is not a tone setter he should be coming off the bench to solidify the defense.. Which is more important in the middle and end of games.. Thjr is not as streaky as jr and shump.. Thjr can knock down open jumpers at will unlike jr and shump... Thjrs game is more suited as a starter then a bench player.. Shump is just not starter caliber in the nba.. Good bench and role player though... Can bring defensive energy off bench which we are missing big time
Shump going 0 for is going to be a common occurrence as a starter
fitzfarm wrote:We need more offensive fire power to set the tone of the game shump is not a tone setter he should be coming off the bench to solidify the defense.. Which is more important in the middle and end of games.. Thjr is not as streaky as jr and shump.. Thjr can knock down open jumpers at will unlike jr and shump... Thjrs game is more suited as a starter then a bench player.. Shump is just not starter caliber in the nba.. Good bench and role player though... Can bring defensive energy off bench which we are missing big time
Agree. He looks better this year but going 4 on 5 or 3 on 5 on offense like last year when he was on the court just doesn't work. Shump did a nice job on DeRozan.
CrushAlot wrote:fitzfarm wrote:We need more offensive fire power to set the tone of the game shump is not a tone setter he should be coming off the bench to solidify the defense.. Which is more important in the middle and end of games.. Thjr is not as streaky as jr and shump.. Thjr can knock down open jumpers at will unlike jr and shump... Thjrs game is more suited as a starter then a bench player.. Shump is just not starter caliber in the nba.. Good bench and role player though... Can bring defensive energy off bench which we are missing big time
Agree. He looks better this year but going 4 on 5 or 3 on 5 on offense like last year when he was on the court just doesn't work. Shump did a nice job on DeRozan.
Yes also shump seems to do better on offense when the tone has already been set. I like shump finishing games just not starting games
Guys you have to realize that a HUGE part of the issue is how they get setup for their shots in the system. Having Jose in there will help that a lot. A lot of the problem is bad spacing and poor timing because Larkin still hasn't learned how to set things up and reset when they need it. He'll get it one day but right now he's not on the level of Jose or even Prigs. Jose makes the whole thing work a lot better and consistently. I was watching Prigs directing guys on the floor and I saw that Larkin never really did that. When the spacing is off then you can't effectively run the offense and guys are bunched up and the angles are all wrong. It's a dance and you have to know the steps or you totally mess everyone else up. It's like that guy at the wedding who doesn't know the Cupid Shuffle or the Wobble.
True shump looks great playing next to Calderon
Without Shump, this team will have NOBODY IN THE CURRENT BACKCOURT ROTATION that plays consistent, higher level defense. The rest of the backcourt is either incompetent, slow, lazy or old defensively.
This continues to highlight the Knicks BS roster full of one-way players. It turns rotation management into a game of either/or. Either you put a scorer on the floor or a defender. Damned if you do it either way.
And that is why this roster is not that talented and will continue to be a constant juggling act for Fish until somebody shows they can play both ends of the court. That primarily means Timmy growing a bigger brain and playing defense and a more all-around game or Shump getting on track offensively. Banking on either is not good gambling math right now.
The backcourt production will remain streaky as hell and this team will live and die by the backcourt's offensive unreliability plus the frontline's susceptibility to penetration and their response to that.
These issues at some point this season should give some other players a shot at getting minutes. If Early plays and gives it his all defensively and is OK at it, he will kick the door open to minutes. That could even apply to guys at the end of the bench now like Galloway.
Splat wrote:Without Shump, this team will have NOBODY IN THE CURRENT BACKCOURT ROTATION that plays consistent, higher level defense. The rest of the backcourt is either incompetent, slow, lazy or old defensively.This continues to highlight the Knicks BS roster full of one-way players. It turns rotation management into a game of either/or. Either you put a scorer on the floor or a defender. Damned if you do it either way.
And that is why this roster is not that talented and will continue to be a constant juggling act for Fish until somebody shows they can play both ends of the court. That primarily means Timmy growing a bigger brain and playing defense and a more all-around game or Shump getting on track offensively. Banking on either is not good gambling math right now.
The backcourt production will remain streaky as hell and this team will live and die by the backcourt's offensive unreliability plus the frontline's susceptibility to penetration and their response to that.
These issues at some point this season should give some other players a shot at getting minutes. If Early plays and gives it his all defensively and is OK at it, he will kick the door open to minutes. That could even apply to guys at the end of the bench now like Galloway.
The irony is that no one on the team can consistently score, even Melo is either hot or cold, so to eliminate the best defender out of the starting lineup would be ever so silly.
As great of a shooter Calderon is, he's not a factor in scoring the basketball since he doesnt shoot enough to make a difference.....same with Pablo.
knickscity wrote:Splat wrote:Without Shump, this team will have NOBODY IN THE CURRENT BACKCOURT ROTATION that plays consistent, higher level defense. The rest of the backcourt is either incompetent, slow, lazy or old defensively.This continues to highlight the Knicks BS roster full of one-way players. It turns rotation management into a game of either/or. Either you put a scorer on the floor or a defender. Damned if you do it either way.
And that is why this roster is not that talented and will continue to be a constant juggling act for Fish until somebody shows they can play both ends of the court. That primarily means Timmy growing a bigger brain and playing defense and a more all-around game or Shump getting on track offensively. Banking on either is not good gambling math right now.
The backcourt production will remain streaky as hell and this team will live and die by the backcourt's offensive unreliability plus the frontline's susceptibility to penetration and their response to that.
These issues at some point this season should give some other players a shot at getting minutes. If Early plays and gives it his all defensively and is OK at it, he will kick the door open to minutes. That could even apply to guys at the end of the bench now like Galloway.
The irony is that no one on the team can consistently score, even Melo is either hot or cold, so to eliminate the best defender out of the starting lineup would be ever so silly.As great of a shooter Calderon is, he's not a factor in scoring the basketball since he doesnt shoot enough to make a difference.....same with Pablo.
Yep, we'll be lucky if Jose's 20+ nights can be counted on more than one hand this season.
The way I feel about him and Pablo is similar to how I feel about Sam.
I like them all. I appreciate their games and think they play smart.
But they are going to be overmatched most of the time.
I don't know why so many were surprised at what Sam can do. Hadn't they seen him play before? He's a pro, competent, fairly well-rounded player.
Sam, Pablo and Jose are all just not young and strong enough to counter their match-ups on either end of the floor most nights.
So people can get psyched about the good things they do, but it just is not enough. Not enough firepower, energy, force. I could roll with a young Sam and Pablo. That'd be great. But that's not our story.
These are all players who cannot play extended minutes every night. Half of the games are back to backs this year which is wacked. Just one more reason many of the rosy optimists here just don't get why we will not be able to keep up many nights.
Splat wrote:knickscity wrote:Splat wrote:Without Shump, this team will have NOBODY IN THE CURRENT BACKCOURT ROTATION that plays consistent, higher level defense. The rest of the backcourt is either incompetent, slow, lazy or old defensively.This continues to highlight the Knicks BS roster full of one-way players. It turns rotation management into a game of either/or. Either you put a scorer on the floor or a defender. Damned if you do it either way.
And that is why this roster is not that talented and will continue to be a constant juggling act for Fish until somebody shows they can play both ends of the court. That primarily means Timmy growing a bigger brain and playing defense and a more all-around game or Shump getting on track offensively. Banking on either is not good gambling math right now.
The backcourt production will remain streaky as hell and this team will live and die by the backcourt's offensive unreliability plus the frontline's susceptibility to penetration and their response to that.
These issues at some point this season should give some other players a shot at getting minutes. If Early plays and gives it his all defensively and is OK at it, he will kick the door open to minutes. That could even apply to guys at the end of the bench now like Galloway.
The irony is that no one on the team can consistently score, even Melo is either hot or cold, so to eliminate the best defender out of the starting lineup would be ever so silly.As great of a shooter Calderon is, he's not a factor in scoring the basketball since he doesnt shoot enough to make a difference.....same with Pablo.
Yep, we'll be lucky if Jose's 20+ nights can be counted on more than one hand this season.
The way I feel about him and Pablo is similar to how I feel about Sam.
I like them all. I appreciate their games and think they play smart.
But they are going to be overmatched most of the time.
I don't know why so many were surprised at what Sam can do. Hadn't they seen him play before? He's a pro, competent, fairly well-rounded player.
Sam, Pablo and Jose are all just not young and strong enough to counter their match-ups on either end of the floor most nights.
So people can get psyched about the good things they do, but it just is not enough. Not enough firepower, energy, force. I could roll with a young Sam and Pablo. That'd be great. But that's not our story.
These are all players who cannot play extended minutes every night. Half of the games are back to backs this year which is wacked. Just one more reason many of the rosy optimists here just don't get why we will not be able to keep up many nights.
very well said, and there's nothing wrong with having this balanced view. just real as it gets.
He has started for nearly 4yrs straight
With exception to tearing his ACL
The yr he tore it we won 54gms
A 40yr old washed up pg converted 2 guard filled
His role at an MVP level////// continuing
Starting him is an abomination and disgrace to our fan base
He should have been traded many moons ago but
Instead we're trying to win media battles with trades
Thus he remains a ruptured achilles on this roster
But hip-hip hooray he locked up Derozan on 3 plays in a meaningless preseason game
All is well hand him the keys again and again
smackeddog wrote:The problem is all 3 of our SGs are streaky as hell- Shump, JR, Tim Jr- they can all go 0 for 9 or 6 for 9 on any given night.
fitzfarm wrote:Shump going 0 for is going to be a common occurrence as a starter
Nixluva is not gonna like that you guys said this
When I did, he said they could on most night do the opposite
TripleThreat wrote:
Do you know why so many guards are being shifted to 3 And D guys? ( three point shooters who offer plus defense)? Because you are only asking the guy to camp out behind the arc on offense, to save himself and all his burn to hurt you on defense. The 3 point shooting is about efficient offense and floor spacing. Shumpert does not need to be complete offensively, he just needs a RELIABLE ABOVE LEAGUE AVERAGE THREE POINT SHOT.
This text serves well as a summary.
I've been open-minded about Shump this season very much for the above reasons. It serves the franchise to see if he can fulfill these basic parameters this season, because if he doesn't then the team is really going to be hurting.
If we don't have the kind of defensive intensity he is capable of bringing, we don't have anyone remotely close to those abilities.
If he can score at a reasonable % when open, then he fulfills his role. That is what is needed from him.
Shump is the kind of player who can win games for you at crunch time. He's done it before.
His mindset is crucial. Fish will matter in terms of Shump's focus and attitude.
Splat wrote:Without Shump, this team will have NOBODY IN THE CURRENT BACKCOURT ROTATION that plays consistent, higher level defense. The rest of the backcourt is either incompetent, slow, lazy or old defensively.This continues to highlight the Knicks BS roster full of one-way players. It turns rotation management into a game of either/or. Either you put a scorer on the floor or a defender. Damned if you do it either way.
And that is why this roster is not that talented and will continue to be a constant juggling act for Fish until somebody shows they can play both ends of the court. That primarily means Timmy growing a bigger brain and playing defense and a more all-around game or Shump getting on track offensively. Banking on either is not good gambling math right now.
The backcourt production will remain streaky as hell and this team will live and die by the backcourt's offensive unreliability plus the frontline's susceptibility to penetration and their response to that.
These issues at some point this season should give some other players a shot at getting minutes. If Early plays and gives it his all defensively and is OK at it, he will kick the door open to minutes. That could even apply to guys at the end of the bench now like Galloway.
True, that's why I say at this juncture
Put the scorer on the floor because the culture is the system
The System is the Triangle, therefore Knicks Offense > Knicks Defense
Play the guys who perform the best in The System
Continue to teach and coach the areas of the game to improve
Shump told us he'd have crazy opportunity in this system to be a slasher-scorer
And get to the rim for easy baskets, did any of us see this in the 7 ps games
THJR got more assists, more blks, as many stls and shot the ball better
Than Smith or Shumpert but hey let the posting of Jose's numbers matter
But not THJR's because that's sinful and a no no
Splat wrote:TripleThreat wrote:
Do you know why so many guards are being shifted to 3 And D guys? ( three point shooters who offer plus defense)? Because you are only asking the guy to camp out behind the arc on offense, to save himself and all his burn to hurt you on defense. The 3 point shooting is about efficient offense and floor spacing. Shumpert does not need to be complete offensively, he just needs a RELIABLE ABOVE LEAGUE AVERAGE THREE POINT SHOT.
This text serves well as a summary.
I've been open-minded about Shump this season very much for the above reasons. It serves the franchise to see if he can fulfill these basic parameters this season, because if he doesn't then the team is really going to be hurting.
If we don't have the kind of defensive intensity he is capable of bringing, we don't have anyone remotely close to those abilities.
If he can score at a reasonable % when open, then he fulfills his role. That is what is needed from him.
Shump is the kind of player who can win games for you at crunch time. He's done it before.
His mindset is crucial. Fish will matter in terms of Shump's focus and attitude.
Getting his overall field goal percentage up to 40% would be a plus. If the Knicks start Shump they shouldn't consider starting Acy. I think Acy is best suited for coming off the bench.
CrushAlot wrote:Splat wrote:TripleThreat wrote:
Do you know why so many guards are being shifted to 3 And D guys? ( three point shooters who offer plus defense)? Because you are only asking the guy to camp out behind the arc on offense, to save himself and all his burn to hurt you on defense. The 3 point shooting is about efficient offense and floor spacing. Shumpert does not need to be complete offensively, he just needs a RELIABLE ABOVE LEAGUE AVERAGE THREE POINT SHOT.
This text serves well as a summary.
I've been open-minded about Shump this season very much for the above reasons. It serves the franchise to see if he can fulfill these basic parameters this season, because if he doesn't then the team is really going to be hurting.
If we don't have the kind of defensive intensity he is capable of bringing, we don't have anyone remotely close to those abilities.
If he can score at a reasonable % when open, then he fulfills his role. That is what is needed from him.
Shump is the kind of player who can win games for you at crunch time. He's done it before.
His mindset is crucial. Fish will matter in terms of Shump's focus and attitude.
Getting his overall field goal percentage up to 40% would be a plus. If the Knicks start Shump they shouldn't consider starting Acy. I think Acy is best suited for coming off the bench.
The both fill the lane of energy players
Energy players come off the bench
Starting Shump is free license for Melo
To take every shot to start games only if tired, let Jose in on the party
We need as many cerebral, quick thinking, confident
Players starting the game so we aren't digging galactic holes
For our bench to dig us out of
Acy and Shump need to surround Amar'e and Barg
The latter two/// biggest defensive stiffs in all of basketball
Have them come off the bench
