Knicks · Gamethread: 2014 Knicks Season starts tonight!!! (page 25)
gunsnewing wrote:So glad we gave Melo $124mil with a no trade claus to boot in order to try to change a 30yr old, 12yr vet
I'm just glad we have a first round draft pick this year.
F500ONE wrote:mreinman wrote:gunsnewing wrote:Vmart wrote:gunsnewing wrote:Knixkik wrote:gunsnewing wrote:CrushAlot wrote:Knicks guards shot just under 29%. The Knicks need Calderon.I think Amare goes to the bench when Calderon returns. Need Amare's steady offense off the bench. Clerly not getting anything consistent from the guards
Amare should start as long as he's playing well. With both smiths, hardaway and eventually bargnani, bench scoring shouldn't be a problem. With shumpert and Dalembert limited offensively, amare needs to be the second scorer in the lineup.
Amare gets in Melo's way
You mean Melo gets in Amare's way.
Amare scores very easily. Nothing gets in his way offensively
Melo has to work HARD for every shot. He is not athletic enough. He needs 20 seconds and a lot of space to operate
Maybe Amare can teach Melo how to score.
The fact Fisher caved to Amar'e veiled bichin speaks volumes
Even Woodson had balls not to start guys just because they wanted to
He actually came out inspired as if he was in preseason mode.
Vmart wrote:gunsnewing wrote:Knixkik wrote:gunsnewing wrote:CrushAlot wrote:Knicks guards shot just under 29%. The Knicks need Calderon.I think Amare goes to the bench when Calderon returns. Need Amare's steady offense off the bench. Clerly not getting anything consistent from the guards
Amare should start as long as he's playing well. With both smiths, hardaway and eventually bargnani, bench scoring shouldn't be a problem. With shumpert and Dalembert limited offensively, amare needs to be the second scorer in the lineup.
Amare gets in Melo's way
You mean Melo gets in Amare's way.
It's something that's way overblown. Complete anti-NY media hype from the moment we got Melo. Nothing more. I don't feel like these guys get in each other's way at all. I feel like it's a real luxury -- we need to start with it and make it work. Enough of the BS..
Finestrg wrote:
It's something that's way overblown. Complete anti-NY media hype from the moment we got Melo. Nothing more. I don't feel like these guys get in each other's way at all. I feel like it's a real luxury -- we need to start with it and make it work. Enough of the BS..
Oh OK. Melo and Amare complement each other beautifully. Watching them operate on the court together is like witnessing a fine-tuned orchestra play a symphony of epic proportions. It is a privilege to be a spectator of such well-oiled harmony and execution.
Finestrg wrote:Vmart wrote:gunsnewing wrote:Knixkik wrote:gunsnewing wrote:CrushAlot wrote:Knicks guards shot just under 29%. The Knicks need Calderon.I think Amare goes to the bench when Calderon returns. Need Amare's steady offense off the bench. Clerly not getting anything consistent from the guards
Amare should start as long as he's playing well. With both smiths, hardaway and eventually bargnani, bench scoring shouldn't be a problem. With shumpert and Dalembert limited offensively, amare needs to be the second scorer in the lineup.
Amare gets in Melo's way
You mean Melo gets in Amare's way.
It's something that's way overblown. Complete anti-NY media hype from the moment we got Melo. Nothing more. I don't feel like these guys get in each other's way at all. I feel like it's a real luxury -- we need to start with it and make it work. Enough of the BS..
Yeah, their problem isn't on the offensive end. It's always been the points we give up on defense when we've had a lineup of with STAT and Melo playing together.
BigDaddyG wrote:Finestrg wrote:Vmart wrote:gunsnewing wrote:Knixkik wrote:gunsnewing wrote:CrushAlot wrote:Knicks guards shot just under 29%. The Knicks need Calderon.I think Amare goes to the bench when Calderon returns. Need Amare's steady offense off the bench. Clerly not getting anything consistent from the guards
Amare should start as long as he's playing well. With both smiths, hardaway and eventually bargnani, bench scoring shouldn't be a problem. With shumpert and Dalembert limited offensively, amare needs to be the second scorer in the lineup.
Amare gets in Melo's way
You mean Melo gets in Amare's way.
It's something that's way overblown. Complete anti-NY media hype from the moment we got Melo. Nothing more. I don't feel like these guys get in each other's way at all. I feel like it's a real luxury -- we need to start with it and make it work. Enough of the BS..
Yeah, their problem isn't on the offensive end. It's always been the points we give up on defense when we've had a lineup of with STAT and Melo playing together.
That's where you try to go for balance with guys like Sammy/Cole rebounding the ball/protecting the rim and a guy like Shump out there to defend another team's top player 1-3 right from the opening tip. These guys help cover for Melo and STAT's shortcomings...I like that starting alignment. I think it'll work..Looked pretty good in the 1st quarter tonight, no? Definitely wasn't the reason we lost -- the 1st quarter was easily our best quarter tonight. If anything we lost our mojo when Melo an STAT both sat out and Shump picked up the quick 2 fouls...I refuse to believe it can't work just because the overanalyzing media has always said it won't. Being able to set up with Carmelo Anthony on one side of the floor and Amar'e Stoudemire on the other side is a lot of offensive firepower to feature and an advantage in our favor that we need to figure out how to exploit to the fullest.
BigDaddyG wrote:gunsnewing wrote:So glad we gave Melo $124mil with a no trade claus to boot in order to try to change a 30yr old, 12yr vetI'm just glad we have a first round draft pick this year.
And we can't trade it (till the draft)! 
That won't happen if the pick is high, so Kobe is not coming here (for this years pick).
We missed out on some GREAT players last year that really could have made a difference. The Denver Knicks will be a much better
team than us this year, but we are banking on getting another max cat...
gunsnewing wrote:CrushAlot wrote:Knicks guards shot just under 29%. The Knicks need Calderon.I think Amare goes to the bench when Calderon returns. Need Amare's steady offense off the bench. Clerly not getting anything consistent from the guards
I made a mistake. The guards shot 24% from the field.
THJ and Shump are still not driving nearly enough. Can't blame it on the triangle. They had good looks at times. Good enough not to jack up so many jumpers. Its frustrating because they both have a quick first step.
Stat looked good at times, hope he stays healthy. Melo was passing up shots he normally takes, but still falling back on bad habits too much at times. I think part of it was that we were shooting so poorly as a team. There were plenty of good looks at the rim, and a whole lot of bad shots. Should improve some when Calderone gets back.
Larkin looks like he will make a good backup PG. The better the teammates, the better Larkin plays. Early, still a mystery. ACY brings energy and improved shooting, but he is still undersized.
Overall I saw better offense than I thought I would at times, and expected much more effort on D right out of the gate.
BigDaddyG wrote:Agreed its rare when we ever have a first round pick which is ne of the reasons why we have struggled since 2000gunsnewing wrote:So glad we gave Melo $124mil with a no trade claus to boot in order to try to change a 30yr old, 12yr vetI'm just glad we have a first round draft pick this year.
F500ONE wrote:the fact that you think the guys behind Amare are better or deserve time over himmreinman wrote:gunsnewing wrote:Vmart wrote:gunsnewing wrote:Knixkik wrote:gunsnewing wrote:CrushAlot wrote:Knicks guards shot just under 29%. The Knicks need Calderon.I think Amare goes to the bench when Calderon returns. Need Amare's steady offense off the bench. Clerly not getting anything consistent from the guards
Amare should start as long as he's playing well. With both smiths, hardaway and eventually bargnani, bench scoring shouldn't be a problem. With shumpert and Dalembert limited offensively, amare needs to be the second scorer in the lineup.
Amare gets in Melo's way
You mean Melo gets in Amare's way.
Amare scores very easily. Nothing gets in his way offensively
Melo has to work HARD for every shot. He is not athletic enough. He needs 20 seconds and a lot of space to operate
Maybe Amare can teach Melo how to score.
The fact Fisher caved to Amar'e veiled bichin speaks volumes
Even Woodson had balls not to start guys just because they wanted to
speaks
bigger
volumes.
Acy sucks as Ive said several times. Jason Smith is a poor man's Doleac.
Please use your eyes. Dalembert and Amare are good. The rest up front is fodder.
So yea.. Fisher "caved" and played the best guys. Great stuff.
fishmike wrote:F500ONE wrote:the fact that you think the guys behind Amare are better or deserve time over himmreinman wrote:gunsnewing wrote:Vmart wrote:gunsnewing wrote:Knixkik wrote:gunsnewing wrote:CrushAlot wrote:Knicks guards shot just under 29%. The Knicks need Calderon.I think Amare goes to the bench when Calderon returns. Need Amare's steady offense off the bench. Clerly not getting anything consistent from the guards
Amare should start as long as he's playing well. With both smiths, hardaway and eventually bargnani, bench scoring shouldn't be a problem. With shumpert and Dalembert limited offensively, amare needs to be the second scorer in the lineup.
Amare gets in Melo's way
You mean Melo gets in Amare's way.
Amare scores very easily. Nothing gets in his way offensively
Melo has to work HARD for every shot. He is not athletic enough. He needs 20 seconds and a lot of space to operate
Maybe Amare can teach Melo how to score.
The fact Fisher caved to Amar'e veiled bichin speaks volumes
Even Woodson had balls not to start guys just because they wanted to
speaks
bigger
volumes.
Acy sucks as Ive said several times. Jason Smith is a poor man's Doleac.
Please use your eyes. Dalembert and Amare are good. The rest up front is fodder.
So yea.. Fisher "caved" and played the best guys. Great stuff.
Don't forget
to blame it on Melo
and his fat
lazy ways.
TripleThreat wrote:nixluva wrote:Guys I'm not saying anything positive. I just said you have to keep perspective and how is that not true? This was a bad game but you can't get carried away by this one game. I'm pretty sure for some here it's just what you wanted to see. This team is going to have better nights than this so why get crazy after one game?
Because the mechanisms of change don't work in the NBA like they do in the NFL and MLB. In the NFL, you can turn your team around in two offseasons. You can truly try to win and still get incrementally better. You can find value all over the draft board, even if you aren't picking in the first few picks. In MLB, their draft is gigantic. Players move through the pipeline to your team in waves. You can get a team like the Royals, due to changes in competitive balancing ( revenue sharing, extra picks, compensation picks, etc) in the system.The Knicks, for the next three seasons, the reasons for hope aren't all that great. It's not just "one night", it's the prospect of treadmilling for three years. And it's not like the decline of the Suns, where even in decline, even losing Marion and STAT, that Nash was able to give the fans a fun product on the court. The Suns were a fun team to watch.
The Knicks can't offer even that. They aren't even a throwback Don Nelson " Will Never Survive The Playoffs But Let's Fun And Gun Anyway " type of team.
Look at the division, Boston and Philly can offer their fans hope and young budding talent. Raptors can offer hope of a team on the rise. Brooklyn might be stagnant, but the talent disparity is huge compared the the Knicks, even if they have the same issues of limited future draft options and being at the tax line.
In pro sports, you can market WINNING/GOING FOR IT or you can market HOPE FOR THE FUTURE. That's it The Knicks currently offer NEITHER. I mean this is some dark Pittsburgh Pirates post Barry Bonds era territory here.
The issue isn't "one game", it's the prospect of three more years of this THEN having to do a full on rebuild at that point.
To me, the Knicks franchise is like a middle age guy with a rotting tooth. No, no, I WON'T GO TO THE MOTHER FUCKING DENTIST NOW. I'm going to suffer for THREE YEARS WITH THIS ROTTING TOOTH. Only to end up three years later having to get done what he should have done THREE YEARS BEFORE ANYWAY. We are all waiting for the full franchise reboot that Dolan should be doing now, but probably can't stand the media scrutiny anymore, so he hired a 60 million dollar aging babysitter.
What you are saying is definitely true but I think the Knicks situation _can_ turn out a bit different if a couple things break the teams way. Now, I know we are talking the Knicks here so if luck goes their way management will somehow find a way to fuck it up and vice versa HOWEVER if the team continues to play as spectacularly bad as they did last night (and I think they will, this team is not a good one) then they have a chance to land a top pick in the upcoming draft.
If that happens the Knicks have a chance to get a young stud to add to a basically clean roster when 3/4 of the team is outta here next offseason. Some smart spending in free agency plus this pick plus Fisher getting his sea legs under him could have the team on a much, much better footing starting in 2015. Add to this the very real likelihood of the cap jumping as much as $20 million in 2016 and now we have a cap where Carmelo Anthony's gimundo contract is not even a concern in terms of acquiring more talent. Another plus.
Now you nor anyone else needs to remind me that again, we are talking the Knicks here who are seemingly constantly snakebitten since Dolan took over. That they will manage to fuck it up. That Jackson is at heart a huckster looking for one last giant payday and/or his zen/triangle spiel is bullshit and will never work nor will he ever get through to Anthony. OK. I can totally see all that clear as can be.
Im just saying: If we get some breaks for once, the situation is not as dire as you laid out. It's possible that we are screwed for years, yeah, but Im hoping for once things go our way. Otherwise Ill just go insane.
But usually, a string of luck happens for those who prepare for luck.
A little bit of luck + $124M Melo probably = better.
Contender? Not likely, unless you believe it is possible to upgrade 4 starter positions to be truly competitive with other top starting units, plus stock the bench with a better group of players.
Most of our roster is truly expendable. Cunning, planning, luck, whatever, all of it has to go pretty amazingly well to replenished the personnel on this team like it needs in the next two years.
Splat wrote:ANSWER: Luck helps a lot. Knicks need multiple instances of luck. Draft position. Picking a great rookie. Signing some overlooked overseas phenom.But usually, a string of luck happens for those who prepare for luck.
A little bit of luck + $124M Melo probably = better.
Contender? Not likely, unless you believe it is possible to upgrade 4 starter positions to be truly competitive with other top starting units, plus stock the bench with a better group of players.
Most of our roster is truly expendable. Cunning, planning, luck, whatever, all of it has to go pretty amazingly well to replenished the personnel on this team like it needs in the next two years.
Contending in a year or two? No way. However if we get a high pick plus spend wisely on FA's and dump this entire roster next season the team _WILL_ be in a better position. Then they can continue to build on that. Especially if the cap jumps as high as some prognosticators say it will.
H1AND1 wrote:Splat wrote:ANSWER: Luck helps a lot. Knicks need multiple instances of luck. Draft position. Picking a great rookie. Signing some overlooked overseas phenom.But usually, a string of luck happens for those who prepare for luck.
A little bit of luck + $124M Melo probably = better.
Contender? Not likely, unless you believe it is possible to upgrade 4 starter positions to be truly competitive with other top starting units, plus stock the bench with a better group of players.
Most of our roster is truly expendable. Cunning, planning, luck, whatever, all of it has to go pretty amazingly well to replenished the personnel on this team like it needs in the next two years.
Contending in a year or two? No way. However if we get a high pick plus spend wisely on FA's and dump this entire roster next season the team _WILL_ be in a better position. Then they can continue to build on that. Especially if the cap jumps as high as some prognosticators say it will.
Don't think it will happen in a year or two either.
That's why spending dope money on Melo really doesn't add up. The so-called rebuild would more or less come to its theoretical fruition in his final season at best, probably when he is less effective and showing his age.
Melo really was not the right move, but the only answer is to continually upgrade the IQ of this club and compensate for his dull brain.
jrodmc wrote:fishmike wrote:F500ONE wrote:the fact that you think the guys behind Amare are better or deserve time over himmreinman wrote:gunsnewing wrote:Vmart wrote:gunsnewing wrote:Knixkik wrote:gunsnewing wrote:CrushAlot wrote:Knicks guards shot just under 29%. The Knicks need Calderon.I think Amare goes to the bench when Calderon returns. Need Amare's steady offense off the bench. Clerly not getting anything consistent from the guards
Amare should start as long as he's playing well. With both smiths, hardaway and eventually bargnani, bench scoring shouldn't be a problem. With shumpert and Dalembert limited offensively, amare needs to be the second scorer in the lineup.
Amare gets in Melo's way
You mean Melo gets in Amare's way.
Amare scores very easily. Nothing gets in his way offensively
Melo has to work HARD for every shot. He is not athletic enough. He needs 20 seconds and a lot of space to operate
Maybe Amare can teach Melo how to score.
The fact Fisher caved to Amar'e veiled bichin speaks volumes
Even Woodson had balls not to start guys just because they wanted to
speaks
bigger
volumes.
Acy sucks as Ive said several times. Jason Smith is a poor man's Doleac.
Please use your eyes. Dalembert and Amare are good. The rest up front is fodder.
So yea.. Fisher "caved" and played the best guys. Great stuff.
Don't forget
to blame it on Melo
and his fat
lazy ways.
So you wanna be startin somethin
Got be startin somethin
No one has gone there but you
Splat wrote:H1AND1 wrote:Splat wrote:ANSWER: Luck helps a lot. Knicks need multiple instances of luck. Draft position. Picking a great rookie. Signing some overlooked overseas phenom.But usually, a string of luck happens for those who prepare for luck.
A little bit of luck + $124M Melo probably = better.
Contender? Not likely, unless you believe it is possible to upgrade 4 starter positions to be truly competitive with other top starting units, plus stock the bench with a better group of players.
Most of our roster is truly expendable. Cunning, planning, luck, whatever, all of it has to go pretty amazingly well to replenished the personnel on this team like it needs in the next two years.
Contending in a year or two? No way. However if we get a high pick plus spend wisely on FA's and dump this entire roster next season the team _WILL_ be in a better position. Then they can continue to build on that. Especially if the cap jumps as high as some prognosticators say it will.
Don't think it will happen in a year or two either.
That's why spending dope money on Melo really doesn't add up. The so-called rebuild would more or less come to its theoretical fruition in his final season at best, probably when he is less effective and showing his age.
Melo really was not the right move, but the only answer is to continually upgrade the IQ of this club and compensate for his dull brain.
I completely agree with you. And I also thought the absolute best move was letting Melo walk and/or played hardball with salary and/or signed and traded him.
In "a year or two" with some decent maneuvering the Knicks are probably a middle of the pack playoff team with a chance to continue building around an aging Melo due to the clean cap and increase in cap space forthcoming. With uber luck aka winning the lotto and getting a franchise player plus knocking it out of the park in Free agency with undervalued guys who blow up they can be contenders in that time frame but its not likely. Uber lucky means not likely, generally.
1. Spacing was horrible. It looked like they were on top of each other in the triangle.
2. High post player does not know how to seal. It does not matter who was there. They all did the same thing.
3. They gave up too early on the entry to the high post and reversed for the 2 man game on the other side.
4. We don't have a guard capable of running the PnR. Larkin is always flaring to the sidelines and not attacking or looking to dish.
5. Defense was horrible.
For tonights game....I want to see improvements on these 5 points.
F500ONE wrote:jrodmc wrote:fishmike wrote:F500ONE wrote:the fact that you think the guys behind Amare are better or deserve time over himmreinman wrote:gunsnewing wrote:Vmart wrote:gunsnewing wrote:Knixkik wrote:gunsnewing wrote:CrushAlot wrote:Knicks guards shot just under 29%. The Knicks need Calderon.I think Amare goes to the bench when Calderon returns. Need Amare's steady offense off the bench. Clerly not getting anything consistent from the guards
Amare should start as long as he's playing well. With both smiths, hardaway and eventually bargnani, bench scoring shouldn't be a problem. With shumpert and Dalembert limited offensively, amare needs to be the second scorer in the lineup.
Amare gets in Melo's way
You mean Melo gets in Amare's way.
Amare scores very easily. Nothing gets in his way offensively
Melo has to work HARD for every shot. He is not athletic enough. He needs 20 seconds and a lot of space to operate
Maybe Amare can teach Melo how to score.
The fact Fisher caved to Amar'e veiled bichin speaks volumes
Even Woodson had balls not to start guys just because they wanted to
speaks
bigger
volumes.
Acy sucks as Ive said several times. Jason Smith is a poor man's Doleac.
Please use your eyes. Dalembert and Amare are good. The rest up front is fodder.
So yea.. Fisher "caved" and played the best guys. Great stuff.
Don't forget
to blame it on Melo
and his fat
lazy ways.
So you wanna be startin somethin
Got be startin somethin
No one has gone there but you
Not startin
Just sayin
You have no one but yourself
To blame
Your pushups are driving me insane.
Not that that was a long trip, Zippy
We have 81 more of these. Some are gonna look like this. That's okay. It'll be okay. Here, hug this blanket.