Knicks · A trade for E Gordon and a rebounding big (page 1)
Knicks1969 wrote:We need a consistent scorer to keep us in the game when Carmelo is not in the game. Gordon is a prolific shot maker when healthy. Why not muster a trade for him?
I'd give the Pelicans, Shumpert, JR Smith and Bargnani for Gordon and a protected pick. But I wouldn't take him without compensation in the form of picks.
yellowboy90 wrote:Nope. The pick makes it interesting but the Pelicans would probably do a deal of Jr and Bargs for Gordon to get out of his contract. If I was in their F.O. I'd do a Bargs/Gordon deal straight up to save 15M+ next year. I might even throw in a 2nd rounder if it was a team besides the knicks.
Then what would be the Knicks incentive? It's a lateral move from a talent perspective but managed to take on $9-$15 million. There is no silver lining.
NardDogNation wrote:yellowboy90 wrote:Nope. The pick makes it interesting but the Pelicans would probably do a deal of Jr and Bargs for Gordon to get out of his contract. If I was in their F.O. I'd do a Bargs/Gordon deal straight up to save 15M+ next year. I might even throw in a 2nd rounder if it was a team besides the knicks.Then what would be the Knicks incentive? It's a lateral move from a talent perspective but managed to take on $9-$15 million. There is no silver lining.
There isn't any incentive for the knicks. Gordon sucks now. Why take on another bad contract when Bargs is about to expire? JR should be traded for players like Meyers Leonard or a 2nd rd pick or two. Bargs will likely just expire.
yellowboy90 wrote:NardDogNation wrote:yellowboy90 wrote:Nope. The pick makes it interesting but the Pelicans would probably do a deal of Jr and Bargs for Gordon to get out of his contract. If I was in their F.O. I'd do a Bargs/Gordon deal straight up to save 15M+ next year. I might even throw in a 2nd rounder if it was a team besides the knicks.Then what would be the Knicks incentive? It's a lateral move from a talent perspective but managed to take on $9-$15 million. There is no silver lining.
There isn't any incentive for the knicks. Gordon sucks now. Why take on another bad contract when Bargs is about to expire? JR should be traded for players like Meyers Leonard or a 2nd rd pick or two. Bargs will likely just expire.
I don't know if Gordon "sucks" per say. I think that his problem is that he isn't close to being worth $15 million per year and is also no longer starter material. But he still can hold his own defensively, can get consistent penetration and makes the extra pass that often goes overlooked. On the Spurs, people would think different of him. But he isn't going to be playing for the Spurs and is still earning $15 million per, so I'd need a pick and a pick swap to make it happen, especially with the way Shumpert is playing.
gunsnewing wrote:Gordon is a really bad player. Look at his shooting numbers. He will make you miss JR
Gordon has sucked for years, and has a lousy attitude.
NardDogNation wrote:Knicks1969 wrote:We need a consistent scorer to keep us in the game when Carmelo is not in the game. Gordon is a prolific shot maker when healthy. Why not muster a trade for him?I'd give the Pelicans, Shumpert, JR Smith and Bargnani for Gordon and a protected pick. But I wouldn't take him without compensation in the form of picks.
I agree with you. I would do that deal in A heartbeat
Knicks1969 wrote:We need a consistent scorer to keep us in the game when Carmelo is not in the game. Gordon is a prolific shot maker when healthy. Why not muster a trade for him?
Click your heels and wave a magic wand. No regard to cap space. A trade to make us middle of the pack while we have a draft pick?
No thanks. Eric Gordon's contract how we want to blow cap space????
Nalod wrote:Knicks1969 wrote:We need a consistent scorer to keep us in the game when Carmelo is not in the game. Gordon is a prolific shot maker when healthy. Why not muster a trade for him?Click your heels and wave a magic wand. No regard to cap space. A trade to make us middle of the pack while we have a draft pick?
No thanks. Eric Gordon's contract how we want to blow cap space????
We will rid ourselves of Bargnani's contract and will acquire a known 15+ points scorer in Gordon who can also guard his position. I am sure Phil could find a way to get a draft pick as well. Regardless of who we bring in as FA (Gasol), we will still need decent production from the backcourt.
JR SMITH
Overview
Experts rank this player at 53rd among SG's. Based on his stats from the past 30 days, he is currently ranked 14th with 225 total points (20.45 avg).
He is currently 197 points behind the leader: James Harden
You have to be impressed by how much better he is performing. Can he keep this up or is it a fluke?
His average points in the past two weeks have increased by 2.4 PPG.
Performance Stats
Shooting 43.93% from the field this month.
Shooting 28.95% from beyond the arc this month. I"d love to play against him in a game of "HORSE".
Assists per game numbers are decent for a shooting guard with 3.33 apg this month.
Rebounds per game are at 2.50 for the month.
Bonus Qualities
Played in 43 less games this year than last year.
At this point in the season his numbers compared to last years: PPG: -6.71, APG: +1.14, RPG: -2.33, MPG: --2.87 STLS: --0.11 BLKS: +0.03
ERIC GORDON
Overview
Experts rank this player at 62nd among SG's. Based on his stats from the past 30 days, he is currently ranked 28th with 155 total points (17.22 avg).
He is currently 267 points behind the leader: James Harden
He is doing a lot better than most people thought he would. Can he keep this up or is it a fluke?
His average points in the past two weeks have increased by 1.6 PPG.
Performance Stats
Shooting 40.96% from the field this month.
Shooting 33.33% from beyond the arc this month. Not too good.
Assists per game numbers are 2.00 apg this month.
Rebounds per game are at 2.56 for the month.
Bonus Qualities
Played in 48 less games this year than last year.
At this point in the season his numbers compared to last years: PPG: -2.53, APG: -0.37, RPG: +1.09, MPG: +9.46 STLS: +0.51 BLKS: +0.15
Seriously a Brandon Jennings, Eric Gordon (with Tyreke Evans as backup) backcourt would be awesome. Then we can go get JaVale McGee to play center possibly? Round that out with Josh Smith heaving at small forward. Wow. That team would rock. The Knicks should go for it.
H1AND1 wrote:Sometimes the trade proposals I see here completely blow my mind. It isn't even worth it even if some team gave us picks as compensation imo. Yes, the key to success for the Knick isn't to simply let the Bargs/Amare/deadweight simply fall off the cap next season (to go along with a high pick) but to trade for all the malcontents and/or quote unquote Stars whose contracts are universally regarded as the worst in the league.Seriously a Brandon Jennings, Eric Gordon (with Tyreke Evans as backup) backcourt would be awesome. Then we can go get JaVale McGee to play center possibly? Round that out with Josh Smith heaving at small forward. Wow. That team would rock. The Knicks should go for it.
So what exactly is your novel idea?
TripleThreat wrote:I remember Gordon's situation a bit differently. He wanted a max deal and knew that the Hornets could match if he went for it. He chose not to take the qualifying offer and got the huge offer from Phoenix that was matched. Not sure about him going bonkers but he has had serious knee problems since and almost had micro fracture surgery. Injuries and character are obviously something teams need to consider when signing guys to big deals. The Hornets knew who Gordon was and resigned him. His knee problems have limited what looked like a promising career. Spending your summers rehabbing is different from cashing it in.Knicks1969 wrote:We need a consistent scorer to keep us in the game when Carmelo is not in the game. Gordon is a prolific shot maker when healthy. Why not muster a trade for him?
IIRC, the Suns signed Eric Gordon to an offer sheet and he very much wanted to play in Phoenix. When the offer sheet was matched, the guy went bonkers and then just decided to cash it in.The same thing happened to the Warriors with Andreis Biedriens, who got a nice sized contract then just stopped caring. I mean completely stopped caring. Talent wise, Biedriens was at least a replacement level center in the NBA. While it seems to run more rampant in big men ( Eddy Curry , Erick Dampier, Greg Ostertag ), the nature of guaranteed contracts is a troubling aspect for the current NBA.
For example, if non guaranteed contracts were the norm in the NBA, then the Knicks would have cut STAT long ago. Also it would have given STAT much more incentive to actually develop other aspects of his game. If STAT was making 2-3 million a year as a 5th big on a different roster, the Knicks could have used that money elsewhere and tried to help themselves. Another roster would get a veteran player who might help them ( even with his limitations) at about his current market value. This model is good for the fans, good for the franchises and good for the competitiveness of the league. Teams aren't asking their fanbases to sit 3-5 years to wait for a contract to fall off the books. And given how much more competitive MLB and the NFL have become ( you can turn your team around in 2-3 years in the NFL and in MLB, the shifts logistically in competitive balancing have helped teams like the Royals make it to the Series)
The NFL has year round interest because massive player movement gives fans hope and keeps them invested. Teams can recover from mistakes and not get punished for years and years for one bad decision.
A shift in how contracts are used would also empower coaches and GMs again.
Don't want to play defense? Ok, asshole, go pack your fucking trash and get off my team. There's the street mother fucker. The NFL works this way and it's brutally effective. If you are the best of the best, you will get paid like the best of the best. When you are not in that group any longer, then you stop getting paid like that.
The answer isn't to try to get Melo another veteran, that ship has sailed. The answer is to trade Melo and start over. Build from the ground up. The Cowboys did it. They traded Herschel Walker when they realized they had one trade asset type player and close to nothing else. While it's a long term crap shoot, at least it starts the process now, before the lottery system changes and possibly works against the ability to tank for higher picks.
NardDogNation wrote:H1AND1 wrote:Sometimes the trade proposals I see here completely blow my mind. It isn't even worth it even if some team gave us picks as compensation imo. Yes, the key to success for the Knick isn't to simply let the Bargs/Amare/deadweight simply fall off the cap next season (to go along with a high pick) but to trade for all the malcontents and/or quote unquote Stars whose contracts are universally regarded as the worst in the league.Seriously a Brandon Jennings, Eric Gordon (with Tyreke Evans as backup) backcourt would be awesome. Then we can go get JaVale McGee to play center possibly? Round that out with Josh Smith heaving at small forward. Wow. That team would rock. The Knicks should go for it.
So what exactly is your novel idea?
Not acquiring head cases with ridiculously bad contracts, for one. Using our cap space to get some quality team oriented role players and not trading our picks so that we have a pipeline of young cheap talent. None of this is novel nor is it some secret strategam. The successful teams employ this kind of team building but for some reason the Knicks are addicted to getting flawed yet talented guys who they "hope" will turn it around ala Bargs but who meanwhile the current team is dying to unload. n
H1AND1 wrote:NardDogNation wrote:H1AND1 wrote:Sometimes the trade proposals I see here completely blow my mind. It isn't even worth it even if some team gave us picks as compensation imo. Yes, the key to success for the Knick isn't to simply let the Bargs/Amare/deadweight simply fall off the cap next season (to go along with a high pick) but to trade for all the malcontents and/or quote unquote Stars whose contracts are universally regarded as the worst in the league.Seriously a Brandon Jennings, Eric Gordon (with Tyreke Evans as backup) backcourt would be awesome. Then we can go get JaVale McGee to play center possibly? Round that out with Josh Smith heaving at small forward. Wow. That team would rock. The Knicks should go for it.
So what exactly is your novel idea?
Not acquiring head cases with ridiculously bad contracts, for one. Using our cap space to get some quality team oriented role players and not trading our picks so that we have a pipeline of young cheap talent. None of this is novel nor is it some secret strategam. The successful teams employ this kind of team building but for some reason the Knicks are addicted to getting flawed yet talented guys who they "hope" will turn it around ala Bargs but who meanwhile the current team is dying to unload. n
You could get all the team-oriented role players you want, we still would be in the middle of no-man's land. Yeah, we'd probably win more frequently but the idea of being the Joe Johnson Hawks is not appealing to me. That's why I rather get as many picks as possible because that is where real difference makers are found. I don't think anyone honestly believes that Eric Gordon is worth much beyond the picks that the Pelicans would be willing to give up.
NardDogNation wrote:H1AND1 wrote:NardDogNation wrote:H1AND1 wrote:Sometimes the trade proposals I see here completely blow my mind. It isn't even worth it even if some team gave us picks as compensation imo. Yes, the key to success for the Knick isn't to simply let the Bargs/Amare/deadweight simply fall off the cap next season (to go along with a high pick) but to trade for all the malcontents and/or quote unquote Stars whose contracts are universally regarded as the worst in the league.Seriously a Brandon Jennings, Eric Gordon (with Tyreke Evans as backup) backcourt would be awesome. Then we can go get JaVale McGee to play center possibly? Round that out with Josh Smith heaving at small forward. Wow. That team would rock. The Knicks should go for it.
So what exactly is your novel idea?
Not acquiring head cases with ridiculously bad contracts, for one. Using our cap space to get some quality team oriented role players and not trading our picks so that we have a pipeline of young cheap talent. None of this is novel nor is it some secret strategam. The successful teams employ this kind of team building but for some reason the Knicks are addicted to getting flawed yet talented guys who they "hope" will turn it around ala Bargs but who meanwhile the current team is dying to unload. n
You could get all the team-oriented role players you want, we still would be in the middle of no-man's land. Yeah, we'd probably win more frequently but the idea of being the Joe Johnson Hawks is not appealing to me. That's why I rather get as many picks as possible because that is where real difference makers are found. I don't think anyone honestly believes that Eric Gordon is worth much beyond the picks that the Pelicans would be willing to give up.
Sure but if the Pelicans were offering up a pick then Gordon would be traded by now. The fact of the matter is that teams these days aren't giving up lightly or unprotected lottery picks nearly as frequently as in the past. I think they'd rather eat his contact then give up a pick.
H1AND1 wrote:NardDogNation wrote:H1AND1 wrote:NardDogNation wrote:H1AND1 wrote:Sometimes the trade proposals I see here completely blow my mind. It isn't even worth it even if some team gave us picks as compensation imo. Yes, the key to success for the Knick isn't to simply let the Bargs/Amare/deadweight simply fall off the cap next season (to go along with a high pick) but to trade for all the malcontents and/or quote unquote Stars whose contracts are universally regarded as the worst in the league.Seriously a Brandon Jennings, Eric Gordon (with Tyreke Evans as backup) backcourt would be awesome. Then we can go get JaVale McGee to play center possibly? Round that out with Josh Smith heaving at small forward. Wow. That team would rock. The Knicks should go for it.
So what exactly is your novel idea?
Not acquiring head cases with ridiculously bad contracts, for one. Using our cap space to get some quality team oriented role players and not trading our picks so that we have a pipeline of young cheap talent. None of this is novel nor is it some secret strategam. The successful teams employ this kind of team building but for some reason the Knicks are addicted to getting flawed yet talented guys who they "hope" will turn it around ala Bargs but who meanwhile the current team is dying to unload. n
You could get all the team-oriented role players you want, we still would be in the middle of no-man's land. Yeah, we'd probably win more frequently but the idea of being the Joe Johnson Hawks is not appealing to me. That's why I rather get as many picks as possible because that is where real difference makers are found. I don't think anyone honestly believes that Eric Gordon is worth much beyond the picks that the Pelicans would be willing to give up.
Sure but if the Pelicans were offering up a pick then Gordon would be traded by now. The fact of the matter is that teams these days aren't giving up lightly or unprotected lottery picks nearly as frequently as in the past. I think they'd rather eat his contact then give up a pick.
You think teams don't balk at acquiring a bad contract worth 22% of the cap? Do you have an example of a trade occurring where an expirer was dealt for that kind of contract, under similar circumstances? Because none come to my mind.