Bonn1997 wrote:earthmansurfer wrote:Are you kidding. This is the best season I can remember since we actually had a real team a few years back. We have our pick (lotto) and cap space. This year is it, all or nothing pretty much.
If nothing else, this team has reinforced a basic premise of life - Sports is a distraction and just a game. We have bigger things to worry about.
If they turn it around, so be it, I'll root for them again, if not, oh well.
Even with the #1 pick, the most likely scenario is probably just that you get a solid NBA starter but not all-star. Now, with bad decision-makers at the top, you'd have to lower expectations. Here are the past ten first picks:
Andrew Wiggins
Anthony Bennett
Anthony Davis
Kyrie Irving
John Wall
Blake Griffin
Derrick Rose
Greg Oden
Andrea Bargnani
Andrew Bogut
I like our chances though. I think if we get a top 5 pick, Phil will pick the right guy for us. We get that top pick (potentially a great center) we become much more attractive to 2 free agents the following week.
That said, notice on Star Trek, they don't even mention money? I think Dolan is sort of like doing that for sports in NY. 
Maybe melo needs to hold up his end of the bargain for his brand and sponsorships. He shouldn't be playing over 40mins though
CrushAlot wrote:F500ONE wrote:CrushAlot wrote:smackeddog wrote:I'm getting tired of reading crap like this:Phil went into the offseason with one year of the MLE to spend, no picks and only one player with any trade value- what the hell did they think he was going to do to rebuild the team with that bag of crap in 6 months?!
Agree. And Berman seems to have no information so he writes about what free agent target won't be coming to the Knicks daily. At least today he talked about how Aldridge can get a 5 year deal in Portland.
There really isn't too much difference
In saying Knicks have no shot at Gasol or Aldridge
vs
Saying Portland and Memphis can pay 5yrs $100mil+ respectively
To Aldridge and Gasol, you hon in on such trivial matters
And if you're going to be a stickler for the media doing their job
Down to the particulars who at best may make $100,000/yr for their day gig
Then you most certainly should be a stickler on details of execution for an exec
Who's banking $60mil who told the national audience this is a playoff team
Yet fielded this garbage roster to roll out the season with
Either keep it real or focus more on long term projection dialogue but don't
Pull a fast one on the cerebral loyalist of the game
We're not stupid and understand this game better than most executives
I'll do it one more time. There is no state income tax in Tennessee. So in addition to an extra year, and an extra 30 mil, Gasol saves a considerable amount over 5 years for staying in what is now a better situation.
He's staying because they have the 5th yr
They are 15-4 and we are 4-17
Nothing else needs to be said
The rest is simply gravy for Gasol
Bonn1997 wrote:Splat wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:earthmansurfer wrote:Are you kidding. This is the best season I can remember since we actually had a real team a few years back. We have our pick (lotto) and cap space. This year is it, all or nothing pretty much.
If nothing else, this team has reinforced a basic premise of life - Sports is a distraction and just a game. We have bigger things to worry about.
If they turn it around, so be it, I'll root for them again, if not, oh well.
Even with the #1 pick, the most likely scenario is probably just that you get a solid NBA starter but not all-star. Now, with bad decision-makers at the top, you'd have to lower expectations. Here are the past ten first picks:
Andrew Wiggins
Anthony Bennett
Anthony Davis
Kyrie Irving
John Wall
Blake Griffin
Derrick Rose
Greg Oden
Andrea Bargnani
Andrew Bogut
That list is basically 50/50 on getting a bona fide All-Star (with Wiggins not a known result yet). You need to have the shot at that whether it pans out or not or you're overpaying for one of those other guys on the list like Oden.
Sure, you have a decent chance at an all-star. You also have a decent chance at an all-star proven commodity in free agency if you have a desirable team (which we don't). Even if it is 50/50, by the time the guy is playing at all-star level, Melo will probably be in his 15th or 16th season. My guess is Dolan will force Phil to trade the pick for a proven player.
If odds say 50/50[which don't the odds always say 50/50]
And if we have a level of incompetency going into the draft
Let's say we win it all and have the #1 pick
Has anyone ever thought outside the box and trade down
If we honestly feel Okafor/Towns/Dakari/Mudiay/Kaminsky
Aren't true game changers
Stockpile the "maybe tier" talents
new york just lays into you,
this town is the city that loves to hate,
if you come to new york, you gotta be ready for the life of no love,
i'm sure philjax was aware (i wasn't),
guys gotta understand you don't just zap zen into the brethren over-night--- it's a process.
you want a chip this year? you're deluded;
we'll get our chip, but will the subjects be weathered enough to stomach the storm?--- i think philjax knows what's in store (so do i), and he will bring his best poncho to see the thunder through,
new york city is the city that loves to hate, that's how it tests you. to succeed here you have to be either a masochist, a sociopath or a zen buddhist; one of the three.
Optimists are quiet because in a losing stretch like this all that would come from commenting amongst all the negativity is arguments. There's nothing to gain from commenting. It was bad enough before the season and early on with the injuries and lack of chemistry. Now it would make no sense to try and argue.
Like Phil and Fish you just have to be patient and see how things play out but let's remember that EVERYONE knew this team isn't the final product and regardless of how they played big changes are coming. It was just a hope that the team would be healthy to start in order to help develop some chemistry. We didn't have that opportunity and it makes a difference. They lost a lot of close games due to a lack of chemistry and execution.
Still an optimist. They will improve. The plan is solid.
I am an optimist.
They are playing awful and losing to good teams by one possession.
We can be much better than this.
mreinman wrote:I am an optimist. They are playing awful and losing to good teams by one possession.
We can be much better than this.
this
With the right trade, the Knicks can be in it by the All-Star break.
Swishfm3 wrote:mreinman wrote:I am an optimist. They are playing awful and losing to good teams by one possession.
We can be much better than this.
this
With the right trade, the Knicks can be in it by the All-Star break.
"In it" meaning a chance at the 8th seed and a 1st round exit?
VCoug wrote:Swishfm3 wrote:mreinman wrote:I am an optimist. They are playing awful and losing to good teams by one possession.
We can be much better than this.
this
With the right trade, the Knicks can be in it by the All-Star break.
"In it" meaning a chance at the 8th seed and a 1st round exit?
That's the spirit!
I think I'll remain positive by starting a negativity thread!
Vmart wrote:jrodmc wrote:Vmart wrote:knickscity wrote:Gotta admit, I miss you guys, you know who you are....the one's who truly believe the Knicks can and will turn things around. Kinda hard to have a discussion now when everyone agrees the team is trash.I dont recall the optimists going awol from the board this early last year though.....where' y'all at? 75% of the games are still left to be played. Dont give up this soon.
I think not having a first round pick last year made fans want to believe the Knicks can turn it around, many we're hoping the Knicks wouldn't be the worst in a year without a pick. Didn't really have the draft so there was no interest in losing. This year it's all about the lotto for me.
There is no way around it, it makes absolutely no sense in winning when you know the team won't win a championship. Backing into the playoffs is about the worst thing any team can do.
1999 called to say hello. To the aged among us, that wasn't all that long ago.
I believe all but the most embittered knicks fans are resigned to the fact that we won our one and only lottery. Dolan isn't spending billions renovating a building and paying 85 million for names to replicate Philly.
That, and the fact that our first round draft history since then has been pretty bleak.
The talent called to say hello. Oh and 1985 is on line two. Know your talent level. The 1999 team was loaded.
Oh yes, loaded. Chris Dudley, your starting center says hi! Granmama and her 4" vertical will be sending you a Christmas card, oh and who else did we have that was "loaded"... hmmm, oh yeah Hall of Famer PG, Charlie Buckets!!!
Wake up and read a book sometime.
Fred Weis, the two Johnny's and six other first round bags of donuts are knocking on your door to remind you of that last sentence you didn't bother to respond to.
Swishfm3 wrote:mreinman wrote:I am an optimist. They are playing awful and losing to good teams by one possession.
We can be much better than this.
this
With the right trade, the Knicks can be in it by the All-Star break.
Look i love the knicks but no trade is gonna help this year mainly because they ahve no assets. Im a guy who values draft picks so im actually excited to get a top draft pick because it will help us in the longrun. I understand that losing stinks but in teh end we will get a top draft pick and have salary cap space at the end of the season. For the past 15 years we have been trying to make a "quick fix" by overpaying for flawed players with disasterous results. I dont mind have a down year getting a blue chip draft pick then adding talent in free agency
F500ONE wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:Splat wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:earthmansurfer wrote:Are you kidding. This is the best season I can remember since we actually had a real team a few years back. We have our pick (lotto) and cap space. This year is it, all or nothing pretty much.
If nothing else, this team has reinforced a basic premise of life - Sports is a distraction and just a game. We have bigger things to worry about.
If they turn it around, so be it, I'll root for them again, if not, oh well.
Even with the #1 pick, the most likely scenario is probably just that you get a solid NBA starter but not all-star. Now, with bad decision-makers at the top, you'd have to lower expectations. Here are the past ten first picks:
Andrew Wiggins
Anthony Bennett
Anthony Davis
Kyrie Irving
John Wall
Blake Griffin
Derrick Rose
Greg Oden
Andrea Bargnani
Andrew Bogut
That list is basically 50/50 on getting a bona fide All-Star (with Wiggins not a known result yet). You need to have the shot at that whether it pans out or not or you're overpaying for one of those other guys on the list like Oden.
Sure, you have a decent chance at an all-star. You also have a decent chance at an all-star proven commodity in free agency if you have a desirable team (which we don't). Even if it is 50/50, by the time the guy is playing at all-star level, Melo will probably be in his 15th or 16th season. My guess is Dolan will force Phil to trade the pick for a proven player.
If odds say 50/50[which don't the odds always say 50/50]
And if we have a level of incompetency going into the draft
Let's say we win it all and have the #1 pick
Has anyone ever thought outside the box and trade down
If we honestly feel Okafor/Towns/Dakari/Mudiay/Kaminsky
Aren't true game changers
Stockpile the "maybe tier" talents
The thought has crossed my mind, but its to early to commit to such thinking.
Bonn1997 wrote:Splat wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:earthmansurfer wrote:Are you kidding. This is the best season I can remember since we actually had a real team a few years back. We have our pick (lotto) and cap space. This year is it, all or nothing pretty much.
If nothing else, this team has reinforced a basic premise of life - Sports is a distraction and just a game. We have bigger things to worry about.
If they turn it around, so be it, I'll root for them again, if not, oh well.
Even with the #1 pick, the most likely scenario is probably just that you get a solid NBA starter but not all-star. Now, with bad decision-makers at the top, you'd have to lower expectations. Here are the past ten first picks:
Andrew Wiggins
Anthony Bennett
Anthony Davis
Kyrie Irving
John Wall
Blake Griffin
Derrick Rose
Greg Oden
Andrea Bargnani
Andrew Bogut
That list is basically 50/50 on getting a bona fide All-Star (with Wiggins not a known result yet). You need to have the shot at that whether it pans out or not or you're overpaying for one of those other guys on the list like Oden.
Sure, you have a decent chance at an all-star. You also have a decent chance at an all-star proven commodity in free agency if you have a desirable team (which we don't). Even if it is 50/50, by the time the guy is playing at all-star level, Melo will probably be in his 15th or 16th season. My guess is Dolan will force Phil to trade the pick for a proven player.
And Phil will listen to Dolan because?
Media dumbing it down to past regressions as the norm going forward. The angry words of "Things the same as they were, and you the fan deserve better" is an old and tired message.
They can't write about a longer term plan, how things may be different, and that Dolan might not be freaking. That don't evoke emotion.
Phil said very early on his relationship with the media is what it is. Media wants him to come out and admit he was wrong? Tell us his plan?
While I prefer an outright tank, I do see the team fights back from deficits. Thats not quitting on the coach. I see the team is losing in the last few possessions. Thats an improvement over previous games.
We were told thanksgiving-Christmas team would know who plays and who don't stay. Media calling him out for saying T-day come and gone and we got no state of the union address!!! Boo hoo!!
The games speak for themselves. We were told they were going triangle and don't care about wins until it becomes engrained. If Fish emulates Phil then he wants his players to figure it out at times and looks placid on the sidelines. There is precedence for this.
Im optimistic this team is doing the things it needs to do to really evoke change. Pandering to media would be a mistake. Pandering to fans is not even an option.
We can all "If I were Phil i'd", or "three things I'd do".......all day long. we make trade fantasy with no knowledge if the other team is even interested or what their plan is. Seems daily we get "detroit sucks, city sucks, they are prime for us to rape them".........
Bottom line is this all takes care of itself over time and that change for change sake is not always an improvement.
We "Deserve Better!!" Of course we do. Not panicking or leveraging the future at this time is doing better. No. 1 thing on the agenda is to stop doing the stupid stuff.
Naturally if Dolan starts back in then all bets are off and Phil will walk. Until then, Im optimistic!!!!!
CrushAlot wrote:F500ONE wrote:CrushAlot wrote:smackeddog wrote:I'm getting tired of reading crap like this:Phil went into the offseason with one year of the MLE to spend, no picks and only one player with any trade value- what the hell did they think he was going to do to rebuild the team with that bag of crap in 6 months?!
Agree. And Berman seems to have no information so he writes about what free agent target won't be coming to the Knicks daily. At least today he talked about how Aldridge can get a 5 year deal in Portland.
There really isn't too much difference
In saying Knicks have no shot at Gasol or Aldridge
vs
Saying Portland and Memphis can pay 5yrs $100mil+ respectively
To Aldridge and Gasol, you hon in on such trivial matters
And if you're going to be a stickler for the media doing their job
Down to the particulars who at best may make $100,000/yr for their day gig
Then you most certainly should be a stickler on details of execution for an exec
Who's banking $60mil who told the national audience this is a playoff team
Yet fielded this garbage roster to roll out the season with
Either keep it real or focus more on long term projection dialogue but don't
Pull a fast one on the cerebral loyalist of the game
We're not stupid and understand this game better than most executives
I'll do it one more time. There is no state income tax in Tennessee. So in addition to an extra year, and an extra 30 mil, Gasol saves a considerable amount over 5 years for staying in what is now a better situation.
ha ha ha it always comes down to taxes as to why other places are more desirable. what a hoot! i guess these free agents are ordered to sequester themselves from all matters concerning the knicks.
Splat wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:Splat wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:earthmansurfer wrote:Are you kidding. This is the best season I can remember since we actually had a real team a few years back. We have our pick (lotto) and cap space. This year is it, all or nothing pretty much.
If nothing else, this team has reinforced a basic premise of life - Sports is a distraction and just a game. We have bigger things to worry about.
If they turn it around, so be it, I'll root for them again, if not, oh well.
Even with the #1 pick, the most likely scenario is probably just that you get a solid NBA starter but not all-star. Now, with bad decision-makers at the top, you'd have to lower expectations. Here are the past ten first picks:
Andrew Wiggins
Anthony Bennett
Anthony Davis
Kyrie Irving
John Wall
Blake Griffin
Derrick Rose
Greg Oden
Andrea Bargnani
Andrew Bogut
That list is basically 50/50 on getting a bona fide All-Star (with Wiggins not a known result yet). You need to have the shot at that whether it pans out or not or you're overpaying for one of those other guys on the list like Oden.
Sure, you have a decent chance at an all-star. You also have a decent chance at an all-star proven commodity in free agency if you have a desirable team (which we don't). Even if it is 50/50, by the time the guy is playing at all-star level, Melo will probably be in his 15th or 16th season. My guess is Dolan will force Phil to trade the pick for a proven player.
Well, that's why the Melo signing was dumb as hell. It was some combination of commercial priorities and Phil's vanity, but there was never going to be a way to quickly stock the roster to maximize Melo and his expensive contract.
Thus the franchise is kind of fukked. The ones who say the draft won't fix us are right in one respect. It won't fix us in time to utilize Melo while he is still in one piece.
Yet there is no real alternative to a rebuild, so either the franchise takes its lumps and accepts that not doing some kind of sign and trade with Melo was a mistake or they will do the same thing they always do, overpay for players who don't make enough of a difference to care.
Either way, this franchise's only shot at capitalizing on Melo is catching lightning via the draft with savvy mid-level signings of smarter players plus good off the radar pickups. This is the only scenario putting us into contention within 2 seasons and for that to happen EVERYTHING HAS TO GO RIGHT. These are the Knicks, so ......
Or they can trade Melo ASAP and do a complete rebuild.
But if they max out somebody who turns this into another dynamic duo clown show without a roster to complement it, then the remainder of Melo's time here will be really ugly.
ha ha ha nobody has the temerity or argument to respond. the melo contract... period!
dk7th wrote:Splat wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:Splat wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:earthmansurfer wrote:Are you kidding. This is the best season I can remember since we actually had a real team a few years back. We have our pick (lotto) and cap space. This year is it, all or nothing pretty much.
If nothing else, this team has reinforced a basic premise of life - Sports is a distraction and just a game. We have bigger things to worry about.
If they turn it around, so be it, I'll root for them again, if not, oh well.
Even with the #1 pick, the most likely scenario is probably just that you get a solid NBA starter but not all-star. Now, with bad decision-makers at the top, you'd have to lower expectations. Here are the past ten first picks:
Andrew Wiggins
Anthony Bennett
Anthony Davis
Kyrie Irving
John Wall
Blake Griffin
Derrick Rose
Greg Oden
Andrea Bargnani
Andrew Bogut
That list is basically 50/50 on getting a bona fide All-Star (with Wiggins not a known result yet). You need to have the shot at that whether it pans out or not or you're overpaying for one of those other guys on the list like Oden.
Sure, you have a decent chance at an all-star. You also have a decent chance at an all-star proven commodity in free agency if you have a desirable team (which we don't). Even if it is 50/50, by the time the guy is playing at all-star level, Melo will probably be in his 15th or 16th season. My guess is Dolan will force Phil to trade the pick for a proven player.
Well, that's why the Melo signing was dumb as hell. It was some combination of commercial priorities and Phil's vanity, but there was never going to be a way to quickly stock the roster to maximize Melo and his expensive contract.
Thus the franchise is kind of fukked. The ones who say the draft won't fix us are right in one respect. It won't fix us in time to utilize Melo while he is still in one piece.
Yet there is no real alternative to a rebuild, so either the franchise takes its lumps and accepts that not doing some kind of sign and trade with Melo was a mistake or they will do the same thing they always do, overpay for players who don't make enough of a difference to care.
Either way, this franchise's only shot at capitalizing on Melo is catching lightning via the draft with savvy mid-level signings of smarter players plus good off the radar pickups. This is the only scenario putting us into contention within 2 seasons and for that to happen EVERYTHING HAS TO GO RIGHT. These are the Knicks, so ......
Or they can trade Melo ASAP and do a complete rebuild.
But if they max out somebody who turns this into another dynamic duo clown show without a roster to complement it, then the remainder of Melo's time here will be really ugly.
ha ha ha nobody has the temerity or argument to respond. the melo contract... period!
And who gave it to him on a silver platter
ALL ROADS LEAD TO PHIL
