Knicks · Can we use the 5 year stretch provision on Calderon? (page 2)

mreinman wrote:don't make me bump all the Rolo and thabeet threads

Why because getting rid of Calderon 2 years ago was smart?

BRIGGS wrote:

nixluva wrote:Calderon isn't the problem. IN this offense we're supposed to get scoring from the other positions. We haven't gotten good production from the SG spot which is a Huge problem. We had 3 talented SG's and none of them stepped up and produced like we needed. Now 2 of them have been out injured and THJ hasn't been hitting as expected. Jose is basically just a little under his normal production but he's been getting better as he rounds into mid season form. He was NEVER supposed to be a source of big offensive production. It's unfortunate that he had the injury and it derailed his season and on top of that we've had so many other issues with players underperforming or health problems. If Phil felt he needed more cap space i'm sure he could make a move but his contract won't be what stops us from signing someone.

This will be in our best interests. After this year we owe him almost 15mm. If we stretch it we gain 4mm the next two years for the cap. Were going to need the $$$ Calderon is not worth that kind of loot. We need a PREMIUM PG.

Yep

BRIGGS wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

nixluva wrote:Calderon isn't the problem. IN this offense we're supposed to get scoring from the other positions. We haven't gotten good production from the SG spot which is a Huge problem. We had 3 talented SG's and none of them stepped up and produced like we needed. Now 2 of them have been out injured and THJ hasn't been hitting as expected. Jose is basically just a little under his normal production but he's been getting better as he rounds into mid season form. He was NEVER supposed to be a source of big offensive production. It's unfortunate that he had the injury and it derailed his season and on top of that we've had so many other issues with players underperforming or health problems. If Phil felt he needed more cap space i'm sure he could make a move but his contract won't be what stops us from signing someone.

This will be in our best interests. After this year we owe him almost 15mm. If we stretch it we gain 4mm the next two years for the cap. Were going to need the $$$ Calderon is not worth that kind of loot. We need a PREMIUM PG.

Using the stretch provision on Calderon will give us 4.4mm in 2015 and 4.7mm in 2016--that is a LOT.

This would be like trading Calderon for Felton

Then waiving Felton or possibly buying him out

Calderon is a mistake

If we did this two years ago we wouldve saved some face.

If we never acquired him and instead focused on moving Tyson for picks, we would've been able to do much more than save face. This outcome with Calderon should've been obvious to people from the jump.

NardDogNation wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

nixluva wrote:Calderon isn't the problem. IN this offense we're supposed to get scoring from the other positions. We haven't gotten good production from the SG spot which is a Huge problem. We had 3 talented SG's and none of them stepped up and produced like we needed. Now 2 of them have been out injured and THJ hasn't been hitting as expected. Jose is basically just a little under his normal production but he's been getting better as he rounds into mid season form. He was NEVER supposed to be a source of big offensive production. It's unfortunate that he had the injury and it derailed his season and on top of that we've had so many other issues with players underperforming or health problems. If Phil felt he needed more cap space i'm sure he could make a move but his contract won't be what stops us from signing someone.

This will be in our best interests. After this year we owe him almost 15mm. If we stretch it we gain 4mm the next two years for the cap. Were going to need the $$$ Calderon is not worth that kind of loot. We need a PREMIUM PG.

Using the stretch provision on Calderon will give us 4.4mm in 2015 and 4.7mm in 2016--that is a LOT.

This would be like trading Calderon for Felton

Then waiving Felton or possibly buying him out

Calderon is a mistake

If we did this two years ago we wouldve saved some face.

If we never acquired him and instead focused on moving Tyson for picks, we would've been able to do much more than save face. This outcome with Calderon should've been obvious to people from the jump.

Yeah we lost that trade regardless of what Dallas did or did not.

NardDogNation wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

nixluva wrote:Calderon isn't the problem. IN this offense we're supposed to get scoring from the other positions. We haven't gotten good production from the SG spot which is a Huge problem. We had 3 talented SG's and none of them stepped up and produced like we needed. Now 2 of them have been out injured and THJ hasn't been hitting as expected. Jose is basically just a little under his normal production but he's been getting better as he rounds into mid season form. He was NEVER supposed to be a source of big offensive production. It's unfortunate that he had the injury and it derailed his season and on top of that we've had so many other issues with players underperforming or health problems. If Phil felt he needed more cap space i'm sure he could make a move but his contract won't be what stops us from signing someone.

This will be in our best interests. After this year we owe him almost 15mm. If we stretch it we gain 4mm the next two years for the cap. Were going to need the $$$ Calderon is not worth that kind of loot. We need a PREMIUM PG.

Using the stretch provision on Calderon will give us 4.4mm in 2015 and 4.7mm in 2016--that is a LOT.

This would be like trading Calderon for Felton

Then waiving Felton or possibly buying him out

Calderon is a mistake

If we did this two years ago we wouldve saved some face.

If we never acquired him and instead focused on moving Tyson for picks, we would've been able to do much more than save face. This outcome with Calderon should've been obvious to people from the jump.

It was to me--I was outspoken on this trade, against the inclusion of Calderon specifically, right from the beginning. I think Cuban really wanted Chandler back and we could've gotten a better deal if we were a little more patient and persistent. Jackson overestimated Calderon as a player and also failed to realize what a detriment taking back his contract was. I think there were other more favorable versions of this trade for us that could've been explored i.e. leaving Felton and Calderon out of it, including Brandan Wright instead of Calderon (I believe he was an expiring contract at the time or maybe only 1 more yr remaining) etc. We didn't get the most favorable version of this deal by a long shot -- Cuban did. I mean Cuban must've been telling people to pinch him at the time -- not only did he reacquire a core piece from his recent championship team, he also somehow got us to take Calderon's bad contract for good measure. I long for the day when we pull off a trade like that. We came close when we acquired Alexey Shved -- but then Phil turns around and decides to play hardball over a relatively small sum of money and winds up losing him. Equally baffling..

Grant/Gallo/Afflalo/ Hernangomez/T Gibson/
And Williams and Thomas still around
With $10+ still under the cap

callmened wrote:whats the point? lol. all that will do is save us like 2-3 mil...which is like pennies this summer

Stretching Jose saves you $5M next year. Significant.

BRIGGS wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

nixluva wrote:Calderon isn't the problem. IN this offense we're supposed to get scoring from the other positions. We haven't gotten good production from the SG spot which is a Huge problem. We had 3 talented SG's and none of them stepped up and produced like we needed. Now 2 of them have been out injured and THJ hasn't been hitting as expected. Jose is basically just a little under his normal production but he's been getting better as he rounds into mid season form. He was NEVER supposed to be a source of big offensive production. It's unfortunate that he had the injury and it derailed his season and on top of that we've had so many other issues with players underperforming or health problems. If Phil felt he needed more cap space i'm sure he could make a move but his contract won't be what stops us from signing someone.

This will be in our best interests. After this year we owe him almost 15mm. If we stretch it we gain 4mm the next two years for the cap. Were going to need the $$$ Calderon is not worth that kind of loot. We need a PREMIUM PG.

Yep

Touching...the older Briggs congratulates/validates the younger Briggs...

Finestrg wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

nixluva wrote:Calderon isn't the problem. IN this offense we're supposed to get scoring from the other positions. We haven't gotten good production from the SG spot which is a Huge problem. We had 3 talented SG's and none of them stepped up and produced like we needed. Now 2 of them have been out injured and THJ hasn't been hitting as expected. Jose is basically just a little under his normal production but he's been getting better as he rounds into mid season form. He was NEVER supposed to be a source of big offensive production. It's unfortunate that he had the injury and it derailed his season and on top of that we've had so many other issues with players underperforming or health problems. If Phil felt he needed more cap space i'm sure he could make a move but his contract won't be what stops us from signing someone.

This will be in our best interests. After this year we owe him almost 15mm. If we stretch it we gain 4mm the next two years for the cap. Were going to need the $$$ Calderon is not worth that kind of loot. We need a PREMIUM PG.

Using the stretch provision on Calderon will give us 4.4mm in 2015 and 4.7mm in 2016--that is a LOT.

This would be like trading Calderon for Felton

Then waiving Felton or possibly buying him out

Calderon is a mistake

If we did this two years ago we wouldve saved some face.

If we never acquired him and instead focused on moving Tyson for picks, we would've been able to do much more than save face. This outcome with Calderon should've been obvious to people from the jump.

It was to me--I was outspoken on this trade, against the inclusion of Calderon specifically, right from the beginning. I think Cuban really wanted Chandler back and we could've gotten a better deal if we were a little more patient and persistent. Jackson overestimated Calderon as a player and also failed to realize what a detriment taking back his contract was. I think there were other more favorable versions of this trade for us that could've been explored i.e. leaving Felton and Calderon out of it, including Brandan Wright instead of Calderon (I believe he was an expiring contract at the time or maybe only 1 more yr remaining) etc. We didn't get the most favorable version of this deal by a long shot -- Cuban did. I mean Cuban must've been telling people to pinch him at the time -- not only did he reacquire a core piece from his recent championship team, he also somehow got us to take Calderon's bad contract for good measure. I long for the day when we pull off a trade like that. We came close when we acquired Alexey Shved -- but then Phil turns around and decides to play hardball over a relatively small sum of money and winds up losing him. Equally baffling..

I completely agree. I liked Calderon but certainly not in this system and certainly not at his paygrade/advanced age. I still think he can be effective on a defensive team that features the pick and roll but marginalizing him as strictly a shooter made no sense given how glaring the rest of his game is; it is every bit as foolish as purchasing a car, only to use its radio.

I didn't think it would be easy but he has been healthy and makes others better.

WaltLongmire wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

nixluva wrote:Calderon isn't the problem. IN this offense we're supposed to get scoring from the other positions. We haven't gotten good production from the SG spot which is a Huge problem. We had 3 talented SG's and none of them stepped up and produced like we needed. Now 2 of them have been out injured and THJ hasn't been hitting as expected. Jose is basically just a little under his normal production but he's been getting better as he rounds into mid season form. He was NEVER supposed to be a source of big offensive production. It's unfortunate that he had the injury and it derailed his season and on top of that we've had so many other issues with players underperforming or health problems. If Phil felt he needed more cap space i'm sure he could make a move but his contract won't be what stops us from signing someone.

This will be in our best interests. After this year we owe him almost 15mm. If we stretch it we gain 4mm the next two years for the cap. Were going to need the $$$ Calderon is not worth that kind of loot. We need a PREMIUM PG.

Yep

Touching...the older Briggs congratulates/validates the younger Briggs...

His next phase will be referring to himself in the third person

martin wrote:

callmened wrote:whats the point? lol. all that will do is save us like 2-3 mil...which is like pennies this summer

Stretching Jose saves you $5M next year. Significant.

Is it really significant with the rising cap? I guess we'll see.

callmened wrote:

martin wrote:

callmened wrote:whats the point? lol. all that will do is save us like 2-3 mil...which is like pennies this summer

Stretching Jose saves you $5M next year. Significant.

Is it really significant with the rising cap? I guess we'll see.

How could it not be? If you only had $10M in cap space, now you could have $15M. Like that.

martin wrote:

callmened wrote:

martin wrote:

callmened wrote:whats the point? lol. all that will do is save us like 2-3 mil...which is like pennies this summer

Stretching Jose saves you $5M next year. Significant.

Is it really significant with the rising cap? I guess we'll see.

How could it not be? If you only had $10M in cap space, now you could have $15M. Like that.

- initial reaction is Phil is a genius for freeing up cap space to chase FA's this summer
- next year everyone is all over Phil for his dumb ass move of stretching Jose because now instead of being done with his contract we have to live with the smaller # for 4 more years.

I say bite the bullet and just live with the current contract until you can move it or let it expire naturally.

Using the stretch provision is akin to trading future draft picks --- bad way of doing business -- sacrificing the future for short term minor improvements

LivingLegend wrote:I picture board reaction to Jose being stretched as follows.....

- initial reaction is Phil is a genius for freeing up cap space to chase FA's this summer
- next year everyone is all over Phil for his dumb ass move of stretching Jose because now instead of being done with his contract we have to live with the smaller # for 4 more years.

I say bite the bullet and just live with the current contract until you can move it or let it expire naturally.

Using the stretch provision is akin to trading future draft picks --- bad way of doing business -- sacrificing the future for short term minor improvements

y2zipper wrote:The Knicks should keep him next year as the backup (hopefully Grant can acutally take his job in the preseason) and then you just use the 2017 cap space to jump in the PG free-agency pool.