F500ONE wrote:gunsnewing wrote:^Those guys are alltime greats. Sure fire Hall of Famers
I can't believed he mentioned them
No wait I actually can
I can too based on recent posts
Triple T..U lose credibility when u called Melo a six man...
Splat wrote:RonRon wrote:Chicago and Houston already have a stacked team with ALL STARS already
At the time, Lakers actually has a better roster and brighter future at the time they had a pickWe are in STEP 1 of the process and CA isn't getting any younger
It takes time to build a team and it is impossible to build a contender unless suddendly we seem to pick out a bunch of steals like Manu/Parker/Ibaka
And signing vet min players to 2 year deals that play like ALL STARS
Again, I didn't care if CA wanted to get paid, however, it had to have happened AFTER we acquired a solid core with a *WINK WINK* deal like we did with JR and Chris Smith
However, if we pay him first, we simply do not have the ability to build the a team around him
Yes. It is so basic.
Trying to tell some here this basic principle is like talking to a wall.
You add Melo to a team that is mostly already constructed.
You do not build around Melo.
Or if you insist on doing so, you don't commit that much cap space for 5 years with a no-trade clause to a player heading into their declining years.
It is all so obvious. Lots of baby talk going on here when people can't grasp these basic realities. They want to tear your face off if you stick to these as your core assumptions.
If Melo were added to my already decent team at a reasonable price, I'd be singing a completely different tune.
The Bulls understood Melo's realistic value and they were not going to give up value to get him.
The Knicks set his market value where the Knicks usually set market values which is stratopheric prices for non-franchise players.
what's hilarious is that even melo had to have had SOME inkling of his "real value" and he STILL went for the money! ha ha ha what a clown
dk7th wrote:Splat wrote:RonRon wrote:Chicago and Houston already have a stacked team with ALL STARS already
At the time, Lakers actually has a better roster and brighter future at the time they had a pickWe are in STEP 1 of the process and CA isn't getting any younger
It takes time to build a team and it is impossible to build a contender unless suddendly we seem to pick out a bunch of steals like Manu/Parker/Ibaka
And signing vet min players to 2 year deals that play like ALL STARS
Again, I didn't care if CA wanted to get paid, however, it had to have happened AFTER we acquired a solid core with a *WINK WINK* deal like we did with JR and Chris Smith
However, if we pay him first, we simply do not have the ability to build the a team around him
Yes. It is so basic.
Trying to tell some here this basic principle is like talking to a wall.
You add Melo to a team that is mostly already constructed.
You do not build around Melo.
Or if you insist on doing so, you don't commit that much cap space for 5 years with a no-trade clause to a player heading into their declining years.
It is all so obvious. Lots of baby talk going on here when people can't grasp these basic realities. They want to tear your face off if you stick to these as your core assumptions.
If Melo were added to my already decent team at a reasonable price, I'd be singing a completely different tune.
The Bulls understood Melo's realistic value and they were not going to give up value to get him.
The Knicks set his market value where the Knicks usually set market values which is stratopheric prices for non-franchise players.
what's hilarious is that even melo had to have had SOME inkling of his "real value" and he STILL went for the money! ha ha ha what a clown
Yes he did
Bulls 4yrs $74mil[Klay Thompson value]
Mavs 4yrs $73mil[Klay Thompson value]
Rockets 4yrs $88mil[Dwight Howard value]
Lakers 4yrs $97mil last offer and allowed to enter race late[his max value]
No need to offer more than $100mil with 7.5% raises
F500ONE wrote:dk7th wrote:Splat wrote:RonRon wrote:Chicago and Houston already have a stacked team with ALL STARS already
At the time, Lakers actually has a better roster and brighter future at the time they had a pickWe are in STEP 1 of the process and CA isn't getting any younger
It takes time to build a team and it is impossible to build a contender unless suddendly we seem to pick out a bunch of steals like Manu/Parker/Ibaka
And signing vet min players to 2 year deals that play like ALL STARS
Again, I didn't care if CA wanted to get paid, however, it had to have happened AFTER we acquired a solid core with a *WINK WINK* deal like we did with JR and Chris Smith
However, if we pay him first, we simply do not have the ability to build the a team around him
Yes. It is so basic.
Trying to tell some here this basic principle is like talking to a wall.
You add Melo to a team that is mostly already constructed.
You do not build around Melo.
Or if you insist on doing so, you don't commit that much cap space for 5 years with a no-trade clause to a player heading into their declining years.
It is all so obvious. Lots of baby talk going on here when people can't grasp these basic realities. They want to tear your face off if you stick to these as your core assumptions.
If Melo were added to my already decent team at a reasonable price, I'd be singing a completely different tune.
The Bulls understood Melo's realistic value and they were not going to give up value to get him.
The Knicks set his market value where the Knicks usually set market values which is stratopheric prices for non-franchise players.
what's hilarious is that even melo had to have had SOME inkling of his "real value" and he STILL went for the money! ha ha ha what a clown
Yes he did
Bulls 4yrs $74mil[Klay Thompson value]
Mavs 4yrs $73mil[Klay Thompson value]
Rockets 4yrs $88mil[Dwight Howard value]
Lakers 4yrs $97mil last offer and allowed to enter race late[his max value]
No need to offer more than $100mil with 7.5% raises
what's neat about this is that when we were arguing this summer over how much melo should be paid, i said no more that 12-14 million per, while a vast majority said 18 million-- which is basically what the bulls and mavs deals are.
very few posters had a problem with 18 million per at that time, some said he's worth as much as 22 million, although i vaguely recall some idiots saying it would be "what the market would bear" 
which to me means that "no matter what the price melo would be worth every penny because the market says so."
what's hilarious is that "the market" was the knicks and ONLY the knicks.
fortunately he still "has time" to develop his game and the knicks "just need" and voila we are a title-contender.
Yea I was in the $17-18mil camp even $20mil per would've been better. Would've given us a few more cap dollars to spend. If it was up to me we would've traded Melo for whatever. I was posting trade Melo trades for 2yrs but everyone scuffed at the idea. Why sell low, why would you trade a top 5-10 player etc
Now we'd be lucky to get a bag of balls for him
dk7th wrote:F500ONE wrote:dk7th wrote:Splat wrote:RonRon wrote:Chicago and Houston already have a stacked team with ALL STARS already
At the time, Lakers actually has a better roster and brighter future at the time they had a pickWe are in STEP 1 of the process and CA isn't getting any younger
It takes time to build a team and it is impossible to build a contender unless suddendly we seem to pick out a bunch of steals like Manu/Parker/Ibaka
And signing vet min players to 2 year deals that play like ALL STARS
Again, I didn't care if CA wanted to get paid, however, it had to have happened AFTER we acquired a solid core with a *WINK WINK* deal like we did with JR and Chris Smith
However, if we pay him first, we simply do not have the ability to build the a team around him
Yes. It is so basic.
Trying to tell some here this basic principle is like talking to a wall.
You add Melo to a team that is mostly already constructed.
You do not build around Melo.
Or if you insist on doing so, you don't commit that much cap space for 5 years with a no-trade clause to a player heading into their declining years.
It is all so obvious. Lots of baby talk going on here when people can't grasp these basic realities. They want to tear your face off if you stick to these as your core assumptions.
If Melo were added to my already decent team at a reasonable price, I'd be singing a completely different tune.
The Bulls understood Melo's realistic value and they were not going to give up value to get him.
The Knicks set his market value where the Knicks usually set market values which is stratopheric prices for non-franchise players.
what's hilarious is that even melo had to have had SOME inkling of his "real value" and he STILL went for the money! ha ha ha what a clown
Yes he did
Bulls 4yrs $74mil[Klay Thompson value]
Mavs 4yrs $73mil[Klay Thompson value]
Rockets 4yrs $88mil[Dwight Howard value]
Lakers 4yrs $97mil last offer and allowed to enter race late[his max value]
No need to offer more than $100mil with 7.5% raises
what's neat about this is that when we were arguing this summer over how much melo should be paid, i said no more that 12-14 million per, while a vast majority said 18 million-- which is basically what the bulls and mavs deals are.
very few posters had a problem with 18 million per at that time, some said he's worth as much as 22 million, although i vaguely recall some idiots saying it would be "what the market would bear" which to me means that "no matter what the price melo would be worth every penny because the market says so."
what's hilarious is that "the market" was the knicks and ONLY the knicks.
fortunately he still "has time" to develop his game and the knicks "just need" and voila we are a title-contender.
You know what I don't get since it was about money
Supposedly Phil had 5 different contracts on the table
Why didn't he offer him slightly more than Lakers
Stick to it at least to the degree calling Melo's bluff
Because that offer was still nearly $30mil more than the Bulls
Who were the main competition, it's really hard to not stew over this
Which is why my focus has been to target Phil more and more
The Odom, Kerr, Fisher, and Melo contract offers and negotiations are absolute head scratchers
Each one worse in succession
dk7th wrote:
what's neat about this is that when we were arguing this summer over how much melo should be paid, i said no more that 12-14 million per, while a vast majority said 18 million-- which is basically what the bulls and mavs deals are.very few posters had a problem with 18 million per at that time, some said he's worth as much as 22 million, although i vaguely recall some idiots saying it would be "what the market would bear" which to me means that "no matter what the price melo would be worth every penny because the market says so."
what's hilarious is that "the market" was the knicks and ONLY the knicks.
fortunately he still "has time" to develop his game and the knicks "just need" and voila we are a title-contender.
Well, it is about time the Knicks start developing their own players.
F500ONE wrote:
Which is why my focus has been to target Phil more and moreThe Odom, Kerr, Fisher, and Melo contract offers and negotiations are absolute head scratchers
Each one worse in succession
No need to scratch your head, because it is called bad management.
gunsnewing wrote:Yea I was in the $17-18mil camp even $20mil per would've been better. Would've given us a few more cap dollars to spend. If it was up to me we would've traded Melo for whatever. I was posting trade Melo trades for 2yrs but everyone scuffed at the idea. Why sell low, why would you trade a top 5-10 player etcNow we'd be lucky to get a bag of balls for him
Papabear Says
The last time I checked there are 5 players on a team and these players must be an alfa match for the alfa dog which is melo. Melo never had a chancel
TripleThreat wrote:holfresh wrote:Oh stop it...Pecentage of what a guy makes has nothing to do with winning..There are plenty of teams that won with guys who made over 40% of the cap on their roster...Kobe in 2009,2010, Duncan, Garnett in Biston, MJ in Chicgo, Dirk in Dallas and I can name more and more..It depends on the skilled front office roster building ability..Surrounding Melo with the right talent..If anything, it shows you need at least one high priced player to win...
You are talking about different players operating WITH VASTLY DIFFERENT COLLECTIVE BARGAINING AGREEMENTS. Many of the players you cite operated SEVERAL CBA'S AGO. We aren't talking the last labor deal, but some guys you cite like Jordan were multiple labor wars ago.
You lose "credibility" when you cite financial and market conditions in the NBA in a vastly different era and landscape.
Do you go to the grocery store now and argue what a loaf of bread used to cost 10 years ago?
Many of the mechanisms for big spending teams to build a team even into the tax zone have changed dramatically or altogether disappeared.
I'm not saying anything here about roster construction that you can't see evident year after year in the current NBA.
You need someone who can defend the rim and you need athletic wings. Those have an established market baseline cost. Add that to Melo and Calderon cap hits and it just doesn't add up. Add in rookies and their development timetable in a practical sense doesn't line up with Melo's current contract.
The CBA has changed in more recent years to penalize teams that go over the cap...The the structure is still the same essentially but still not the issue...Front offices still have to do a good job building a team...We have had GMs make massive blunders in the last 10 years...It's where we struggle most...Phil too has made some missteps..The Fisher hire at that price, now he can't be fired and Calderon's contract...We can't get out of our own way...
holfresh wrote:TripleThreat wrote:holfresh wrote:Oh stop it...Pecentage of what a guy makes has nothing to do with winning..There are plenty of teams that won with guys who made over 40% of the cap on their roster...Kobe in 2009,2010, Duncan, Garnett in Biston, MJ in Chicgo, Dirk in Dallas and I can name more and more..It depends on the skilled front office roster building ability..Surrounding Melo with the right talent..If anything, it shows you need at least one high priced player to win...
You are talking about different players operating WITH VASTLY DIFFERENT COLLECTIVE BARGAINING AGREEMENTS. Many of the players you cite operated SEVERAL CBA'S AGO. We aren't talking the last labor deal, but some guys you cite like Jordan were multiple labor wars ago.
You lose "credibility" when you cite financial and market conditions in the NBA in a vastly different era and landscape.
Do you go to the grocery store now and argue what a loaf of bread used to cost 10 years ago?
Many of the mechanisms for big spending teams to build a team even into the tax zone have changed dramatically or altogether disappeared.
I'm not saying anything here about roster construction that you can't see evident year after year in the current NBA.
You need someone who can defend the rim and you need athletic wings. Those have an established market baseline cost. Add that to Melo and Calderon cap hits and it just doesn't add up. Add in rookies and their development timetable in a practical sense doesn't line up with Melo's current contract.
The CBA has changed in more recent years to penalize teams that go over the cap...The the structure is still the same essentially but still not the issue...Front offices still have to do a good job building a team...We have had GMs make massive blunders in the last 10 years...It's where we struggle most...Phil too has made some missteps..The Fisher hire at that price, now he can't be fired and Calderon's contract...We can't get out of our own way...
i dont think you can win the big one with melo being the main guy however if he plays with somebody who is a better overall player then you can compete for a title. Its not a knock on melo just the way it is
StarksEwing1 wrote:holfresh wrote:TripleThreat wrote:holfresh wrote:Oh stop it...Pecentage of what a guy makes has nothing to do with winning..There are plenty of teams that won with guys who made over 40% of the cap on their roster...Kobe in 2009,2010, Duncan, Garnett in Biston, MJ in Chicgo, Dirk in Dallas and I can name more and more..It depends on the skilled front office roster building ability..Surrounding Melo with the right talent..If anything, it shows you need at least one high priced player to win...
You are talking about different players operating WITH VASTLY DIFFERENT COLLECTIVE BARGAINING AGREEMENTS. Many of the players you cite operated SEVERAL CBA'S AGO. We aren't talking the last labor deal, but some guys you cite like Jordan were multiple labor wars ago.
You lose "credibility" when you cite financial and market conditions in the NBA in a vastly different era and landscape.
Do you go to the grocery store now and argue what a loaf of bread used to cost 10 years ago?
Many of the mechanisms for big spending teams to build a team even into the tax zone have changed dramatically or altogether disappeared.
I'm not saying anything here about roster construction that you can't see evident year after year in the current NBA.
You need someone who can defend the rim and you need athletic wings. Those have an established market baseline cost. Add that to Melo and Calderon cap hits and it just doesn't add up. Add in rookies and their development timetable in a practical sense doesn't line up with Melo's current contract.
The CBA has changed in more recent years to penalize teams that go over the cap...The the structure is still the same essentially but still not the issue...Front offices still have to do a good job building a team...We have had GMs make massive blunders in the last 10 years...It's where we struggle most...Phil too has made some missteps..The Fisher hire at that price, now he can't be fired and Calderon's contract...We can't get out of our own way...
i dont think you can win the big one with melo being the main guy however if he plays with somebody who is a better overall player then you can compete for a title. Its not a knock on melo just the way it is
It's been your general theme until I called you on it and you never answered...You used to say you can't win with Melo as the 1st option..He has to be a 2nd or 3rd option..Yet Denver got the WCF with Melo as the number one option..They won 50 games 7 consecutive years with Melo as the main/only option in some cases...What one or two players are realistically better scoring options than Melo that you can build a team with??
And it's not the way it is because you say so Irish..
holfresh wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:holfresh wrote:TripleThreat wrote:holfresh wrote:Oh stop it...Pecentage of what a guy makes has nothing to do with winning..There are plenty of teams that won with guys who made over 40% of the cap on their roster...Kobe in 2009,2010, Duncan, Garnett in Biston, MJ in Chicgo, Dirk in Dallas and I can name more and more..It depends on the skilled front office roster building ability..Surrounding Melo with the right talent..If anything, it shows you need at least one high priced player to win...
You are talking about different players operating WITH VASTLY DIFFERENT COLLECTIVE BARGAINING AGREEMENTS. Many of the players you cite operated SEVERAL CBA'S AGO. We aren't talking the last labor deal, but some guys you cite like Jordan were multiple labor wars ago.
You lose "credibility" when you cite financial and market conditions in the NBA in a vastly different era and landscape.
Do you go to the grocery store now and argue what a loaf of bread used to cost 10 years ago?
Many of the mechanisms for big spending teams to build a team even into the tax zone have changed dramatically or altogether disappeared.
I'm not saying anything here about roster construction that you can't see evident year after year in the current NBA.
You need someone who can defend the rim and you need athletic wings. Those have an established market baseline cost. Add that to Melo and Calderon cap hits and it just doesn't add up. Add in rookies and their development timetable in a practical sense doesn't line up with Melo's current contract.
The CBA has changed in more recent years to penalize teams that go over the cap...The the structure is still the same essentially but still not the issue...Front offices still have to do a good job building a team...We have had GMs make massive blunders in the last 10 years...It's where we struggle most...Phil too has made some missteps..The Fisher hire at that price, now he can't be fired and Calderon's contract...We can't get out of our own way...
i dont think you can win the big one with melo being the main guy however if he plays with somebody who is a better overall player then you can compete for a title. Its not a knock on melo just the way it is
It's been your general theme until I called you on it and you never answered...You used to say you can't win with Melo as the 1st option..He has to be a 2nd or 3rd option..Yet Denver got the WCF with Melo as the number one option..They won 50 games 7 consecutive years with Melo as the main/only option in some cases...What one or two players are realistically better scoring options than Melo that you can build a team with??
again its not a knock on melo because those type of players are rare. Just because i dont bend over and kiss his ass doesnt mean i am a hater and want him gone. I love his scoring and rebounding but i still feel we need someone that can help the whole team click. Also denver had some good teams
StarksEwing1 wrote:holfresh wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:holfresh wrote:TripleThreat wrote:holfresh wrote:Oh stop it...Pecentage of what a guy makes has nothing to do with winning..There are plenty of teams that won with guys who made over 40% of the cap on their roster...Kobe in 2009,2010, Duncan, Garnett in Biston, MJ in Chicgo, Dirk in Dallas and I can name more and more..It depends on the skilled front office roster building ability..Surrounding Melo with the right talent..If anything, it shows you need at least one high priced player to win...
You are talking about different players operating WITH VASTLY DIFFERENT COLLECTIVE BARGAINING AGREEMENTS. Many of the players you cite operated SEVERAL CBA'S AGO. We aren't talking the last labor deal, but some guys you cite like Jordan were multiple labor wars ago.
You lose "credibility" when you cite financial and market conditions in the NBA in a vastly different era and landscape.
Do you go to the grocery store now and argue what a loaf of bread used to cost 10 years ago?
Many of the mechanisms for big spending teams to build a team even into the tax zone have changed dramatically or altogether disappeared.
I'm not saying anything here about roster construction that you can't see evident year after year in the current NBA.
You need someone who can defend the rim and you need athletic wings. Those have an established market baseline cost. Add that to Melo and Calderon cap hits and it just doesn't add up. Add in rookies and their development timetable in a practical sense doesn't line up with Melo's current contract.
The CBA has changed in more recent years to penalize teams that go over the cap...The the structure is still the same essentially but still not the issue...Front offices still have to do a good job building a team...We have had GMs make massive blunders in the last 10 years...It's where we struggle most...Phil too has made some missteps..The Fisher hire at that price, now he can't be fired and Calderon's contract...We can't get out of our own way...
i dont think you can win the big one with melo being the main guy however if he plays with somebody who is a better overall player then you can compete for a title. Its not a knock on melo just the way it is
It's been your general theme until I called you on it and you never answered...You used to say you can't win with Melo as the 1st option..He has to be a 2nd or 3rd option..Yet Denver got the WCF with Melo as the number one option..They won 50 games 7 consecutive years with Melo as the main/only option in some cases...What one or two players are realistically better scoring options than Melo that you can build a team with??
again its not a knock on melo because those type of players are rare. Just because i dont bend over and kiss his ass doesnt mean i am a hater and want him gone. I love his scoring and rebounding but i still feel we need someone that can help the whole team click
I don't care whether or not you like Melo, really I don't...We are talking basketball here...I site stats and past performances to disprove your theory..What else are you bringing to the board/table other than an empty opinion with zero merit??
holfresh wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:holfresh wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:holfresh wrote:TripleThreat wrote:holfresh wrote:Oh stop it...Pecentage of what a guy makes has nothing to do with winning..There are plenty of teams that won with guys who made over 40% of the cap on their roster...Kobe in 2009,2010, Duncan, Garnett in Biston, MJ in Chicgo, Dirk in Dallas and I can name more and more..It depends on the skilled front office roster building ability..Surrounding Melo with the right talent..If anything, it shows you need at least one high priced player to win...
You are talking about different players operating WITH VASTLY DIFFERENT COLLECTIVE BARGAINING AGREEMENTS. Many of the players you cite operated SEVERAL CBA'S AGO. We aren't talking the last labor deal, but some guys you cite like Jordan were multiple labor wars ago.
You lose "credibility" when you cite financial and market conditions in the NBA in a vastly different era and landscape.
Do you go to the grocery store now and argue what a loaf of bread used to cost 10 years ago?
Many of the mechanisms for big spending teams to build a team even into the tax zone have changed dramatically or altogether disappeared.
I'm not saying anything here about roster construction that you can't see evident year after year in the current NBA.
You need someone who can defend the rim and you need athletic wings. Those have an established market baseline cost. Add that to Melo and Calderon cap hits and it just doesn't add up. Add in rookies and their development timetable in a practical sense doesn't line up with Melo's current contract.
The CBA has changed in more recent years to penalize teams that go over the cap...The the structure is still the same essentially but still not the issue...Front offices still have to do a good job building a team...We have had GMs make massive blunders in the last 10 years...It's where we struggle most...Phil too has made some missteps..The Fisher hire at that price, now he can't be fired and Calderon's contract...We can't get out of our own way...
i dont think you can win the big one with melo being the main guy however if he plays with somebody who is a better overall player then you can compete for a title. Its not a knock on melo just the way it is
It's been your general theme until I called you on it and you never answered...You used to say you can't win with Melo as the 1st option..He has to be a 2nd or 3rd option..Yet Denver got the WCF with Melo as the number one option..They won 50 games 7 consecutive years with Melo as the main/only option in some cases...What one or two players are realistically better scoring options than Melo that you can build a team with??
again its not a knock on melo because those type of players are rare. Just because i dont bend over and kiss his ass doesnt mean i am a hater and want him gone. I love his scoring and rebounding but i still feel we need someone that can help the whole team click
I don't care whether or not you like Melo, really I don't...We are talking basketball here...I site stats and past performances to disprove your theory..What else are you bringing to the board/table other than an empty opinion with zero merit??
it doesnt matter what i say because unless i say he is a great overall talent who can carry any team youll shoot it down. Being the 2nd guy on a championship team is a great thing
StarksEwing1 wrote:holfresh wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:holfresh wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:holfresh wrote:TripleThreat wrote:holfresh wrote:Oh stop it...Pecentage of what a guy makes has nothing to do with winning..There are plenty of teams that won with guys who made over 40% of the cap on their roster...Kobe in 2009,2010, Duncan, Garnett in Biston, MJ in Chicgo, Dirk in Dallas and I can name more and more..It depends on the skilled front office roster building ability..Surrounding Melo with the right talent..If anything, it shows you need at least one high priced player to win...
You are talking about different players operating WITH VASTLY DIFFERENT COLLECTIVE BARGAINING AGREEMENTS. Many of the players you cite operated SEVERAL CBA'S AGO. We aren't talking the last labor deal, but some guys you cite like Jordan were multiple labor wars ago.
You lose "credibility" when you cite financial and market conditions in the NBA in a vastly different era and landscape.
Do you go to the grocery store now and argue what a loaf of bread used to cost 10 years ago?
Many of the mechanisms for big spending teams to build a team even into the tax zone have changed dramatically or altogether disappeared.
I'm not saying anything here about roster construction that you can't see evident year after year in the current NBA.
You need someone who can defend the rim and you need athletic wings. Those have an established market baseline cost. Add that to Melo and Calderon cap hits and it just doesn't add up. Add in rookies and their development timetable in a practical sense doesn't line up with Melo's current contract.
The CBA has changed in more recent years to penalize teams that go over the cap...The the structure is still the same essentially but still not the issue...Front offices still have to do a good job building a team...We have had GMs make massive blunders in the last 10 years...It's where we struggle most...Phil too has made some missteps..The Fisher hire at that price, now he can't be fired and Calderon's contract...We can't get out of our own way...
i dont think you can win the big one with melo being the main guy however if he plays with somebody who is a better overall player then you can compete for a title. Its not a knock on melo just the way it is
It's been your general theme until I called you on it and you never answered...You used to say you can't win with Melo as the 1st option..He has to be a 2nd or 3rd option..Yet Denver got the WCF with Melo as the number one option..They won 50 games 7 consecutive years with Melo as the main/only option in some cases...What one or two players are realistically better scoring options than Melo that you can build a team with??
again its not a knock on melo because those type of players are rare. Just because i dont bend over and kiss his ass doesnt mean i am a hater and want him gone. I love his scoring and rebounding but i still feel we need someone that can help the whole team click
I don't care whether or not you like Melo, really I don't...We are talking basketball here...I site stats and past performances to disprove your theory..What else are you bringing to the board/table other than an empty opinion with zero merit??
it doesnt matter what i say because unless i say he is a great overall talent who can carry any team youll shoot it down.
Not the case at all..I just want some engagement with reasoning that follows/backs you opinion..That way we can have a dialogue...But you mostly skirt the issue/discussion or run away and never answer with sound reasoning much in the way you are doing now...Site some facts please...And yes I will be dismissive when you don't answer...
holfresh wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:holfresh wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:holfresh wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:holfresh wrote:TripleThreat wrote:holfresh wrote:Oh stop it...Pecentage of what a guy makes has nothing to do with winning..There are plenty of teams that won with guys who made over 40% of the cap on their roster...Kobe in 2009,2010, Duncan, Garnett in Biston, MJ in Chicgo, Dirk in Dallas and I can name more and more..It depends on the skilled front office roster building ability..Surrounding Melo with the right talent..If anything, it shows you need at least one high priced player to win...
You are talking about different players operating WITH VASTLY DIFFERENT COLLECTIVE BARGAINING AGREEMENTS. Many of the players you cite operated SEVERAL CBA'S AGO. We aren't talking the last labor deal, but some guys you cite like Jordan were multiple labor wars ago.
You lose "credibility" when you cite financial and market conditions in the NBA in a vastly different era and landscape.
Do you go to the grocery store now and argue what a loaf of bread used to cost 10 years ago?
Many of the mechanisms for big spending teams to build a team even into the tax zone have changed dramatically or altogether disappeared.
I'm not saying anything here about roster construction that you can't see evident year after year in the current NBA.
You need someone who can defend the rim and you need athletic wings. Those have an established market baseline cost. Add that to Melo and Calderon cap hits and it just doesn't add up. Add in rookies and their development timetable in a practical sense doesn't line up with Melo's current contract.
The CBA has changed in more recent years to penalize teams that go over the cap...The the structure is still the same essentially but still not the issue...Front offices still have to do a good job building a team...We have had GMs make massive blunders in the last 10 years...It's where we struggle most...Phil too has made some missteps..The Fisher hire at that price, now he can't be fired and Calderon's contract...We can't get out of our own way...
i dont think you can win the big one with melo being the main guy however if he plays with somebody who is a better overall player then you can compete for a title. Its not a knock on melo just the way it is
It's been your general theme until I called you on it and you never answered...You used to say you can't win with Melo as the 1st option..He has to be a 2nd or 3rd option..Yet Denver got the WCF with Melo as the number one option..They won 50 games 7 consecutive years with Melo as the main/only option in some cases...What one or two players are realistically better scoring options than Melo that you can build a team with??
again its not a knock on melo because those type of players are rare. Just because i dont bend over and kiss his ass doesnt mean i am a hater and want him gone. I love his scoring and rebounding but i still feel we need someone that can help the whole team click
I don't care whether or not you like Melo, really I don't...We are talking basketball here...I site stats and past performances to disprove your theory..What else are you bringing to the board/table other than an empty opinion with zero merit??
it doesnt matter what i say because unless i say he is a great overall talent who can carry any team youll shoot it down.
Not the case at all..I just want some engagement with reasoning that follows/backs you opinion..That way we can have a dialogue...But you mostly skirt the issue/discussion or run away and never answer with sound reasoning much in the way you are doing now...Site some facts please...And yes I will be dismissive when you don't answer...
i dont skirt the Issue. I have said many times his strengths and flaws. I really dont feel like doing it again. I respect your opinion and lets just see what happens. I hope you are right and im wrong because i love the knicks and want a title
StarksEwing1 wrote:holfresh wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:holfresh wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:holfresh wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:holfresh wrote:TripleThreat wrote:holfresh wrote:Oh stop it...Pecentage of what a guy makes has nothing to do with winning..There are plenty of teams that won with guys who made over 40% of the cap on their roster...Kobe in 2009,2010, Duncan, Garnett in Biston, MJ in Chicgo, Dirk in Dallas and I can name more and more..It depends on the skilled front office roster building ability..Surrounding Melo with the right talent..If anything, it shows you need at least one high priced player to win...
You are talking about different players operating WITH VASTLY DIFFERENT COLLECTIVE BARGAINING AGREEMENTS. Many of the players you cite operated SEVERAL CBA'S AGO. We aren't talking the last labor deal, but some guys you cite like Jordan were multiple labor wars ago.
You lose "credibility" when you cite financial and market conditions in the NBA in a vastly different era and landscape.
Do you go to the grocery store now and argue what a loaf of bread used to cost 10 years ago?
Many of the mechanisms for big spending teams to build a team even into the tax zone have changed dramatically or altogether disappeared.
I'm not saying anything here about roster construction that you can't see evident year after year in the current NBA.
You need someone who can defend the rim and you need athletic wings. Those have an established market baseline cost. Add that to Melo and Calderon cap hits and it just doesn't add up. Add in rookies and their development timetable in a practical sense doesn't line up with Melo's current contract.
The CBA has changed in more recent years to penalize teams that go over the cap...The the structure is still the same essentially but still not the issue...Front offices still have to do a good job building a team...We have had GMs make massive blunders in the last 10 years...It's where we struggle most...Phil too has made some missteps..The Fisher hire at that price, now he can't be fired and Calderon's contract...We can't get out of our own way...
i dont think you can win the big one with melo being the main guy however if he plays with somebody who is a better overall player then you can compete for a title. Its not a knock on melo just the way it is
It's been your general theme until I called you on it and you never answered...You used to say you can't win with Melo as the 1st option..He has to be a 2nd or 3rd option..Yet Denver got the WCF with Melo as the number one option..They won 50 games 7 consecutive years with Melo as the main/only option in some cases...What one or two players are realistically better scoring options than Melo that you can build a team with??
again its not a knock on melo because those type of players are rare. Just because i dont bend over and kiss his ass doesnt mean i am a hater and want him gone. I love his scoring and rebounding but i still feel we need someone that can help the whole team click
I don't care whether or not you like Melo, really I don't...We are talking basketball here...I site stats and past performances to disprove your theory..What else are you bringing to the board/table other than an empty opinion with zero merit??
it doesnt matter what i say because unless i say he is a great overall talent who can carry any team youll shoot it down.
Not the case at all..I just want some engagement with reasoning that follows/backs you opinion..That way we can have a dialogue...But you mostly skirt the issue/discussion or run away and never answer with sound reasoning much in the way you are doing now...Site some facts please...And yes I will be dismissive when you don't answer...
i dont skirt the Issue. I have said many times his strengths and flaws. I really dont feel like doing it again. I respect your opinion and lets just see what happens. I hope you are right and im wrong because i love the knicks and want a title
Like always Irish, you never answer with facts and examples..
I like that phil hasnt done anything rash. He knows we have a lottery pick and cap space. I do feel he will do well this summer
TripleThreat wrote:holfresh wrote:Oh stop it...Pecentage of what a guy makes has nothing to do with winning..There are plenty of teams that won with guys who made over 40% of the cap on their roster...Kobe in 2009,2010, Duncan, Garnett in Biston, MJ in Chicgo, Dirk in Dallas and I can name more and more..It depends on the skilled front office roster building ability..Surrounding Melo with the right talent..If anything, it shows you need at least one high priced player to win...
You are talking about different players operating WITH VASTLY DIFFERENT COLLECTIVE BARGAINING AGREEMENTS. Many of the players you cite operated SEVERAL CBA'S AGO. We aren't talking the last labor deal, but some guys you cite like Jordan were multiple labor wars ago.
You lose "credibility" when you cite financial and market conditions in the NBA in a vastly different era and landscape.
Do you go to the grocery store now and argue what a loaf of bread used to cost 10 years ago?
Many of the mechanisms for big spending teams to build a team even into the tax zone have changed dramatically or altogether disappeared.
I'm not saying anything here about roster construction that you can't see evident year after year in the current NBA.
You need someone who can defend the rim and you need athletic wings. Those have an established market baseline cost. Add that to Melo and Calderon cap hits and it just doesn't add up. Add in rookies and their development timetable in a practical sense doesn't line up with Melo's current contract.
the draft should get us a good big man. Maybe dragic is one way to go in free agency
