Knicks · Honest question--what would the Knicks record be this year (page 1)
He's not as good as Lowry but he's an upper tier guy.
I think we are 16-14 right now + 11 games.
maybe 10 wins at best
Splat wrote:This team would still be a porous wall of shame on defense and full of inconsistent deadbeats on offense, so not really that much.
Rondo to Love to Gasol to Greg to Dragic
Gotta love how some are carried away by the media wind
We'd be awful still maybe 3-4 more wins at best
VCoug wrote:Very few players in the league can make that sort of a difference. Lebron, Durant, Chris Paul, Anthony Davis, Marc Gasol, Dwight Howard was but I'm not sure that he still is, and maybe Joakim Noah. We'd be better with Dragic, no doubt, but he's not the difference between us being one of the worst teams in the league and being decent. He probably improves our current team from 5 wins to 12 or so wins.
Being that the league got better overall I doubt he makes much a difference
Keep in mind he's been on Phx for 2yrs, they didn't have Bledsoe
For 1/3 of season last yr and won 48gms
Came back this yr with team in tact relatively healthy
They are on pace to win 43gms, a player's impact out west
Doesn't decrease 5gms and then conversely net improve +12 East
They are 16-14[last yr 19-11] with a 9-6[extrapolate to 18-12] record against East which equates
To a net +2gm difference, so I was being kind of generous giving him +4 difference
They are 7-8 against the West we are 1-10 against West
No way he provides 7gm difference, that's like saying
If we didn't have Melo but instead had Dragic we'd be 7-23 instead of 5-25
NYKBocker wrote:You really need a player that can break down the defense and get in the paint. Dragic is that kind of player. Too bad we don't have one. Almost every winning team this year has a player that can breakdown the defense. We are stuck with Calderon, Pablo, Shump and the like. I was hoping Larkin can do this but he has show that he is not this kind of player.
That's why Lin was so good for us. he broke Down the defense driving to the hoop and was hitting his outside shot... Something we have been missing ever since he left... Should have singed Lin for super cheap when he went down with a injury before the heat series would have signed lin for dirt cheap before he became a free agent... One of our biggest mistakes of our time ... I don't care what people think of Lin he would have been a star in nyc because he already was. Still think we can sign lin super cheap this off season.
Next year I hope it' pg drogic,back up Lin.. Sg thjr,back up Greek... Sf melo, back up early.. Pf milsap, back up amare.. C oak4 or towns, back up Aldrich ... That's a good team right there and can compete with anyone in the east
16-14 is no prize but you're talking about a huge differential change in arguably the most important position.
BRIGGS wrote:If we had a big PG who could score 18-20 points consistently and was able to dish and kick 7-8 assists while controlling TO's--this team would be materially different.16-14 is no prize but you're talking about a huge differential change in arguably the most important position.
It simply means he'd be putting up numbers on
On a bad team who still has to play the field
I mean look at it like this, If we are 5-25 with Melo
What would our record be without Melo 0-30?
So Melo is only a 5gm impact? Replace Dragic instead of Melo
What's our record 7-23 or the same 5-25 or less?
F500ONE wrote:VCoug wrote:Very few players in the league can make that sort of a difference. Lebron, Durant, Chris Paul, Anthony Davis, Marc Gasol, Dwight Howard was but I'm not sure that he still is, and maybe Joakim Noah. We'd be better with Dragic, no doubt, but he's not the difference between us being one of the worst teams in the league and being decent. He probably improves our current team from 5 wins to 12 or so wins.Being that the league got better overall I doubt he makes much a difference
Keep in mind he's been on Phx for 2yrs, they didn't have Bledsoe
For 1/3 of season last yr and won 48gmsCame back this yr with team in tact relatively healthy
They are on pace to win 43gms, a player's impact out westDoesn't decrease 5gms and then conversely net improve +12 East
They are 16-14[last yr 19-11] with a 9-6[extrapolate to 18-12] record against East which equatesTo a net +2gm difference, so I was being kind of generous giving him +4 difference
They are 7-8 against the West we are 1-10 against WestNo way he provides 7gm difference, that's like saying
If we didn't have Melo but instead had Dragic we'd be 7-23 instead of 5-25
WTF are you talking about? This logic you're making up has no basis in fact. You just want to sound like you know what you're talking about. In fact the Knicks have been in a position to win a LOT of the games they've lost. Often just not having a breakdown player to create something when needed was the factor
The Knicks are 3-16 in games when the score has been within five points or fewer with five minutes remaining. That's a sign of poor late-game execution.
You can't just take the record and extrapolate from that since that's not explaining how they're losing and what could make a difference in wins or losses for the team. Despite all the clamor and dissing of the Knicks they really have had issues with consistent execution but particularly late game execution. A player or two making plays when needed would've made all the difference. Didn't matter who they played. They were in close games with a lot of teams both good and bad.
I know it doesn't fit with your narrative to suggest that the Knicks could actually have been successful if just one of the guys who they were depending on was more productive but it's been a factor. So many games we just needed someone to actually step up and help Melo so it wasn't just on him and we could get much needed buckets. YOU WATCHED THIS HAPPEN. So don't pretend that it's not true!
nixluva wrote:F500ONE wrote:VCoug wrote:Very few players in the league can make that sort of a difference. Lebron, Durant, Chris Paul, Anthony Davis, Marc Gasol, Dwight Howard was but I'm not sure that he still is, and maybe Joakim Noah. We'd be better with Dragic, no doubt, but he's not the difference between us being one of the worst teams in the league and being decent. He probably improves our current team from 5 wins to 12 or so wins.Being that the league got better overall I doubt he makes much a difference
Keep in mind he's been on Phx for 2yrs, they didn't have Bledsoe
For 1/3 of season last yr and won 48gmsCame back this yr with team in tact relatively healthy
They are on pace to win 43gms, a player's impact out westDoesn't decrease 5gms and then conversely net improve +12 East
They are 16-14[last yr 19-11] with a 9-6[extrapolate to 18-12] record against East which equatesTo a net +2gm difference, so I was being kind of generous giving him +4 difference
They are 7-8 against the West we are 1-10 against WestNo way he provides 7gm difference, that's like saying
If we didn't have Melo but instead had Dragic we'd be 7-23 instead of 5-25
WTF are you talking about? This logic you're making up has no basis in fact. You just want to sound like you know what you're talking about. In fact the Knicks have been in a position to win a LOT of the games they've lost. Often just not having a breakdown player to create something when needed was the factorThe Knicks are 3-16 in games when the score has been within five points or fewer with five minutes remaining. That's a sign of poor late-game execution.You can't just take the record and extrapolate from that since that's not explaining how they're losing and what could make a difference in wins or losses for the team. Despite all the clamor and dissing of the Knicks they really have had issues with consistent execution but particularly late game execution. A player or two making plays when needed would've made all the difference. Didn't matter who they played. They were in close games with a lot of teams both good and bad.
I know it doesn't fit with your narrative to suggest that the Knicks could actually have been successful if just one of the guys who they were depending on was more productive but it's been a factor. So many games we just needed someone to actually step up and help Melo so it wasn't just on him and we could get much needed buckets. YOU WATCHED THIS HAPPEN. So don't pretend that it's not true!
I'm sure when the Suns added Isiah Thomas to the team
They factored he'd be some kind of net positive on wins
That's not how it works, we were close last yr winning gms too remember
We added Elite Level High IQ Calderon and others and have a much worse record than last yr
You try and fit every narrative of said player to have
Any remote kind of interest in us or us in them as an absolute 100% fit
Simmer down Son as off you've been this yr
With a point guard who knows how to penetrate and maestro an offense
Now if we added Dragic swapped out and mitigated other parts
Let's continue to discuss in further details the impact but as currently constructed nope
The problem with adding Dragic, if it comes together will Phil consider the cost
What did Donnie Walsh say "A Player Is Good At Certain Price But Not At Another"
the team still suuhhhuccks on defense anyway. that's where calderon is least effective-- defending.
F500ONE wrote:nixluva wrote:F500ONE wrote:VCoug wrote:Very few players in the league can make that sort of a difference. Lebron, Durant, Chris Paul, Anthony Davis, Marc Gasol, Dwight Howard was but I'm not sure that he still is, and maybe Joakim Noah. We'd be better with Dragic, no doubt, but he's not the difference between us being one of the worst teams in the league and being decent. He probably improves our current team from 5 wins to 12 or so wins.Being that the league got better overall I doubt he makes much a difference
Keep in mind he's been on Phx for 2yrs, they didn't have Bledsoe
For 1/3 of season last yr and won 48gmsCame back this yr with team in tact relatively healthy
They are on pace to win 43gms, a player's impact out westDoesn't decrease 5gms and then conversely net improve +12 East
They are 16-14[last yr 19-11] with a 9-6[extrapolate to 18-12] record against East which equatesTo a net +2gm difference, so I was being kind of generous giving him +4 difference
They are 7-8 against the West we are 1-10 against WestNo way he provides 7gm difference, that's like saying
If we didn't have Melo but instead had Dragic we'd be 7-23 instead of 5-25
WTF are you talking about? This logic you're making up has no basis in fact. You just want to sound like you know what you're talking about. In fact the Knicks have been in a position to win a LOT of the games they've lost. Often just not having a breakdown player to create something when needed was the factorThe Knicks are 3-16 in games when the score has been within five points or fewer with five minutes remaining. That's a sign of poor late-game execution.You can't just take the record and extrapolate from that since that's not explaining how they're losing and what could make a difference in wins or losses for the team. Despite all the clamor and dissing of the Knicks they really have had issues with consistent execution but particularly late game execution. A player or two making plays when needed would've made all the difference. Didn't matter who they played. They were in close games with a lot of teams both good and bad.
I know it doesn't fit with your narrative to suggest that the Knicks could actually have been successful if just one of the guys who they were depending on was more productive but it's been a factor. So many games we just needed someone to actually step up and help Melo so it wasn't just on him and we could get much needed buckets. YOU WATCHED THIS HAPPEN. So don't pretend that it's not true!
I'm sure when the Suns added Isiah Thomas to the team
They factored he'd be some kind of net positive on wins
That's not how it works, we were close last yr winning gms too rememberWe added Elite Level High IQ Calderon and others and have a much worse record than last yr
You try and fit every narrative of said player to haveAny remote kind of interest in us or us in them as an absolute 100% fit
Simmer down Son as off you've been this yr
I understand what you're trying to say but just cuz you say it doesn't make it true. You can talk like you know what you're talking about since the Knicks have been losing but you DON'T know what you're talking about. This is why when you and others bash me I don't really listen to it. You can oversimplify things and say OH the Knicks suck and nothing would change that, but that's not really explaining anything.
On the Knicks there's been a particular issue with this team for a while not having a Guard either SG or PG who could score and run a team effectively. It's why when Lin went crazy it made such a huge difference. We needed a guard who could break a defense down and get to the hole. Right now once again we lack that ability from SG and PG. Whenever JR or tHJ attack the basket it's immediately noticeable how much of an improvement it makes on the team. It's why Woody used to BEG JR to drive. I don't care whether it comes from the SF, SG or PG, this team needs a player who can break down a defense and score so we're not just taking jumpers all the time.
Jose is a pass 1st PG who was here to setup our other players and in particular our SG's & SF's. If they don't score then it puts more pressure on Jose to be something he's not and teams can crowd Melo and our bigs. We need players who can create when the play stalls out and we have a HUGE lack of players able to do that. The way this team was setup it was for our SG's to be able to attack the hole but they've been reluctant to do this consistently. So that has left it to Jose and Prigs who don't excel in that area. Heck neither does Larkin, tho he's been getting more aggressive lately.
The team has a 3-16 record in games that were within 5pts in the last 4 minutes. So that's 19 games where the team was in a position to win the game. trust me that despite all the injuries, slumping and guys having trouble adjusting to the new system, this team was a lot closer to winning games than the record indicates. In this instance one player who addresses a specific area of need could've made the difference.
nixluva wrote:F500ONE wrote:VCoug wrote:Very few players in the league can make that sort of a difference. Lebron, Durant, Chris Paul, Anthony Davis, Marc Gasol, Dwight Howard was but I'm not sure that he still is, and maybe Joakim Noah. We'd be better with Dragic, no doubt, but he's not the difference between us being one of the worst teams in the league and being decent. He probably improves our current team from 5 wins to 12 or so wins.Being that the league got better overall I doubt he makes much a difference
Keep in mind he's been on Phx for 2yrs, they didn't have Bledsoe
For 1/3 of season last yr and won 48gmsCame back this yr with team in tact relatively healthy
They are on pace to win 43gms, a player's impact out westDoesn't decrease 5gms and then conversely net improve +12 East
They are 16-14[last yr 19-11] with a 9-6[extrapolate to 18-12] record against East which equatesTo a net +2gm difference, so I was being kind of generous giving him +4 difference
They are 7-8 against the West we are 1-10 against WestNo way he provides 7gm difference, that's like saying
If we didn't have Melo but instead had Dragic we'd be 7-23 instead of 5-25
WTF are you talking about? This logic you're making up has no basis in fact. You just want to sound like you know what you're talking about. In fact the Knicks have been in a position to win a LOT of the games they've lost. Often just not having a breakdown player to create something when needed was the factorThe Knicks are 3-16 in games when the score has been within five points or fewer with five minutes remaining. That's a sign of poor late-game execution.You can't just take the record and extrapolate from that since that's not explaining how they're losing and what could make a difference in wins or losses for the team. Despite all the clamor and dissing of the Knicks they really have had issues with consistent execution but particularly late game execution. A player or two making plays when needed would've made all the difference. Didn't matter who they played. They were in close games with a lot of teams both good and bad.
I know it doesn't fit with your narrative to suggest that the Knicks could actually have been successful if just one of the guys who they were depending on was more productive but it's been a factor. So many games we just needed someone to actually step up and help Melo so it wasn't just on him and we could get much needed buckets. YOU WATCHED THIS HAPPEN. So don't pretend that it's not true!
Jesus Christmas already!
If Melo were really all that good, he'd at least have steered the team to a few more wins. Superstars need help too, but 5-25 says he ain't one by a long shot, regardless of how he rates himself when he's talking to a mirror or a reporter.
Bonn1997 wrote:Instead of 5-25? Maybe 9-21
Bee Eye In Gee Oh and B.I.N.G.O. was his name Yo!