Splat wrote:BRIGGS wrote:This flush out is all Dolan. This is 15 years of his "input". Dolan hired Phil Jackson who has zero GM experience for more money than the 3 best GMs make combined. Did anyone read that Kyle Lowry piece just put out? Lowry was traded to the Knicks---whether it was Dolan or Phil behind the scenes--they negated a trade for the best player we have any chance at getting unless we get pick 1 for the next 18 months at a minimum. It could get WORSE here it could get real bad. We DO NOT have a pick next year and there is a possibility of the "bust" scenario where we don't do well in the draft and get somewhat shut out in FA. I'm sure there will be a panic mode where we do offer a player a max just to placate the fans--to get something new in here and trade the pick for any exsisting proven player(even if its eats massive cap) If we do the franchise is likely done for 5-7 years. Because the Knicks and their ownership have not put a standard of "restrictive picks" we left ourselves open to disaster--this year its all PURE luck (my God how is this pick not somehow not swapped to a team who has the rights to flip) a device the Knicks concocted to circumvent the two year draft rule(I think it was isiah Thomas) The Knicks are basically a crooked scam organization with Dolan running things the only way he will do it by his last words. So the consumer is fcked by this the fan is fkced by this--and that is that.
Welcome! You have been assimilated into the Borg.
hell is freezing over. fishmike and jrod have headed for the hills. 5-30 is apparently a critical mass point.
dk7th wrote:Splat wrote:BRIGGS wrote:This flush out is all Dolan. This is 15 years of his "input". Dolan hired Phil Jackson who has zero GM experience for more money than the 3 best GMs make combined. Did anyone read that Kyle Lowry piece just put out? Lowry was traded to the Knicks---whether it was Dolan or Phil behind the scenes--they negated a trade for the best player we have any chance at getting unless we get pick 1 for the next 18 months at a minimum. It could get WORSE here it could get real bad. We DO NOT have a pick next year and there is a possibility of the "bust" scenario where we don't do well in the draft and get somewhat shut out in FA. I'm sure there will be a panic mode where we do offer a player a max just to placate the fans--to get something new in here and trade the pick for any exsisting proven player(even if its eats massive cap) If we do the franchise is likely done for 5-7 years. Because the Knicks and their ownership have not put a standard of "restrictive picks" we left ourselves open to disaster--this year its all PURE luck (my God how is this pick not somehow not swapped to a team who has the rights to flip) a device the Knicks concocted to circumvent the two year draft rule(I think it was isiah Thomas) The Knicks are basically a crooked scam organization with Dolan running things the only way he will do it by his last words. So the consumer is fcked by this the fan is fkced by this--and that is that.
Welcome! You have been assimilated into the Borg.
hell is freezing over. fishmike and jrod have headed for the hills. 5-30 is apparently a critical mass point.
They are huddled in a Klondike hut making soup from Melo jerseys ala Chaplin.
Splat wrote:dk7th wrote:Splat wrote:BRIGGS wrote:This flush out is all Dolan. This is 15 years of his "input". Dolan hired Phil Jackson who has zero GM experience for more money than the 3 best GMs make combined. Did anyone read that Kyle Lowry piece just put out? Lowry was traded to the Knicks---whether it was Dolan or Phil behind the scenes--they negated a trade for the best player we have any chance at getting unless we get pick 1 for the next 18 months at a minimum. It could get WORSE here it could get real bad. We DO NOT have a pick next year and there is a possibility of the "bust" scenario where we don't do well in the draft and get somewhat shut out in FA. I'm sure there will be a panic mode where we do offer a player a max just to placate the fans--to get something new in here and trade the pick for any exsisting proven player(even if its eats massive cap) If we do the franchise is likely done for 5-7 years. Because the Knicks and their ownership have not put a standard of "restrictive picks" we left ourselves open to disaster--this year its all PURE luck (my God how is this pick not somehow not swapped to a team who has the rights to flip) a device the Knicks concocted to circumvent the two year draft rule(I think it was isiah Thomas) The Knicks are basically a crooked scam organization with Dolan running things the only way he will do it by his last words. So the consumer is fcked by this the fan is fkced by this--and that is that.
Welcome! You have been assimilated into the Borg.
hell is freezing over. fishmike and jrod have headed for the hills. 5-30 is apparently a critical mass point.
They are huddled in a Klondike hut making soup from Melo jerseys ala Chaplin.
and the hats!!!! the hat bands make for a great papardelle pasta.
gunsnewing wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:I'm worried that while other teams are using the best advanced metrics, Phil is just using his intuition and eyeball test because that's what everyone did many years ago when he was winning rings.
That is certainly a concern. You hope Mills is helping him in that area but who knows. That really not something to get excited about.
All we have to go on is the resigning of Melo which analytically is on par with paying a Rudy Gay & Josh Smith $124mil.
Then they brought in Calderon who has good advanced stats offensively but alwful advance stats defensively.
So yea they are probably using the ol handy eyeball test only which means we are screwed
Phil said when he took over that he wanted to expand the metrics department. We have a pretty good one, thats similar to Houstons in many ways- we target the same guys, Lin, Novak, Papanikolaou. We find diamonds in the rough (Copeland etc) at a pretty good rate- we always fall flat when it comes to paying out the big bucks on free agents, and we never have cap space or top picks. Metrics aren't magic- they're just a tool. Even Morey wanted to sign Josh Smith a few years ago and Melo this offseason.
BRIGGS wrote:This flush out is all Dolan. This is 15 years of his "input". Dolan hired Phil Jackson who has zero GM experience for more money than the 3 best GMs make combined. Did anyone read that Kyle Lowry piece just put out? Lowry was traded to the Knicks---whether it was Dolan or Phil behind the scenes--they negated a trade for the best player we have any chance at getting unless we get pick 1 for the next 18 months at a minimum. It could get WORSE here it could get real bad. We DO NOT have a pick next year and there is a possibility of the "bust" scenario where we don't do well in the draft and get somewhat shut out in FA. I'm sure there will be a panic mode where we do offer a player a max just to placate the fans--to get something new in here and trade the pick for any exsisting proven player(even if its eats massive cap) If we do the franchise is likely done for 5-7 years. Because the Knicks and their ownership have not put a standard of "restrictive picks" we left ourselves open to disaster--this year its all PURE luck (my God how is this pick not somehow not swapped to a team who has the rights to flip) a device the Knicks concocted to circumvent the two year draft rule(I think it was isiah Thomas) The Knicks are basically a crooked scam organization with Dolan running things the only way he will do it by his last words. So the consumer is fcked by this the fan is fkced by this--and that is that.
Lets discuss the Lowry trade again in 2017. I suspect by then Lowry will be declining rapidly and we'll be awful = another lottery pick of ours going to another team.
smackeddog wrote:BRIGGS wrote:This flush out is all Dolan. This is 15 years of his "input". Dolan hired Phil Jackson who has zero GM experience for more money than the 3 best GMs make combined. Did anyone read that Kyle Lowry piece just put out? Lowry was traded to the Knicks---whether it was Dolan or Phil behind the scenes--they negated a trade for the best player we have any chance at getting unless we get pick 1 for the next 18 months at a minimum. It could get WORSE here it could get real bad. We DO NOT have a pick next year and there is a possibility of the "bust" scenario where we don't do well in the draft and get somewhat shut out in FA. I'm sure there will be a panic mode where we do offer a player a max just to placate the fans--to get something new in here and trade the pick for any exsisting proven player(even if its eats massive cap) If we do the franchise is likely done for 5-7 years. Because the Knicks and their ownership have not put a standard of "restrictive picks" we left ourselves open to disaster--this year its all PURE luck (my God how is this pick not somehow not swapped to a team who has the rights to flip) a device the Knicks concocted to circumvent the two year draft rule(I think it was isiah Thomas) The Knicks are basically a crooked scam organization with Dolan running things the only way he will do it by his last words. So the consumer is fcked by this the fan is fkced by this--and that is that.
Lets discuss the Lowry trade again in 2017. I suspect by then Lowry will be declining rapidly and we'll be awful = another lottery pick of ours going to another team.
haha ... you just want to go down fighting.
dk7th wrote:smackeddog wrote:gunsnewing wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:I'm worried that while other teams are using the best advanced metrics, Phil is just using his intuition and eyeball test because that's what everyone did many years ago when he was winning rings.
That is certainly a concern. You hope Mills is helping him in that area but who knows. That really not something to get excited about.
All we have to go on is the resigning of Melo which analytically is on par with paying a Rudy Gay & Josh Smith $124mil.
Then they brought in Calderon who has good advanced stats offensively but alwful advance stats defensively.
So yea they are probably using the ol handy eyeball test only which means we are screwed
Phil said when he took over that he wanted to expand the metrics department. We have a pretty good one, thats similar to Houstons in many ways- we target the same guys, Lin, Novak, Papanikolaou. We find diamonds in the rough (Copeland etc) at a pretty good rate- we always fall flat when it comes to paying out the big bucks on free agents, and we never have cap space or top picks. Metrics aren't magic- they're just a tool. Even Morey wanted to sign Josh Smith a few years ago and Melo this offseason.
but he didn't
signing Melo as a third star is not an anti metrics move.
dk7th wrote:Splat wrote:dk7th wrote:Splat wrote:BRIGGS wrote:This flush out is all Dolan. This is 15 years of his "input". Dolan hired Phil Jackson who has zero GM experience for more money than the 3 best GMs make combined. Did anyone read that Kyle Lowry piece just put out? Lowry was traded to the Knicks---whether it was Dolan or Phil behind the scenes--they negated a trade for the best player we have any chance at getting unless we get pick 1 for the next 18 months at a minimum. It could get WORSE here it could get real bad. We DO NOT have a pick next year and there is a possibility of the "bust" scenario where we don't do well in the draft and get somewhat shut out in FA. I'm sure there will be a panic mode where we do offer a player a max just to placate the fans--to get something new in here and trade the pick for any exsisting proven player(even if its eats massive cap) If we do the franchise is likely done for 5-7 years. Because the Knicks and their ownership have not put a standard of "restrictive picks" we left ourselves open to disaster--this year its all PURE luck (my God how is this pick not somehow not swapped to a team who has the rights to flip) a device the Knicks concocted to circumvent the two year draft rule(I think it was isiah Thomas) The Knicks are basically a crooked scam organization with Dolan running things the only way he will do it by his last words. So the consumer is fcked by this the fan is fkced by this--and that is that.
Welcome! You have been assimilated into the Borg.
hell is freezing over. fishmike and jrod have headed for the hills. 5-30 is apparently a critical mass point.
They are huddled in a Klondike hut making soup from Melo jerseys ala Chaplin.
and the hats!!!! the hat bands make for a great papardelle pasta.
You Rang!
Isaac Love Boat Melo[GrantLand referred to him as Gilligan...lol]
I had no idea Grantland and USA Today already did this in July and December
But clever minds think alike
Boy do they have some hilarious ones themselves
http://grantland.com/the-triangle/look-a...
http://ftw.usatoday.com/2014/12/the-8-mo...
What A Complete Joke Paraody Of Himself
I think what was worse than the Lowry non-trade was the potential trade for Jeff Teague who was going to be a salary dump. He could have been have for Shump but the knicks insisted on including Felton. They could have had a young PG for the next few years for basically a fringe player. oh well
dk7th wrote:Splat wrote:BRIGGS wrote:This flush out is all Dolan. This is 15 years of his "input". Dolan hired Phil Jackson who has zero GM experience for more money than the 3 best GMs make combined. Did anyone read that Kyle Lowry piece just put out? Lowry was traded to the Knicks---whether it was Dolan or Phil behind the scenes--they negated a trade for the best player we have any chance at getting unless we get pick 1 for the next 18 months at a minimum. It could get WORSE here it could get real bad. We DO NOT have a pick next year and there is a possibility of the "bust" scenario where we don't do well in the draft and get somewhat shut out in FA. I'm sure there will be a panic mode where we do offer a player a max just to placate the fans--to get something new in here and trade the pick for any exsisting proven player(even if its eats massive cap) If we do the franchise is likely done for 5-7 years. Because the Knicks and their ownership have not put a standard of "restrictive picks" we left ourselves open to disaster--this year its all PURE luck (my God how is this pick not somehow not swapped to a team who has the rights to flip) a device the Knicks concocted to circumvent the two year draft rule(I think it was isiah Thomas) The Knicks are basically a crooked scam organization with Dolan running things the only way he will do it by his last words. So the consumer is fcked by this the fan is fkced by this--and that is that.
Welcome! You have been assimilated into the Borg.
hell is freezing over. fishmike and jrod have headed for the hills. 5-30 is apparently a critical mass point.
Long overdo.
Knicks organization is a massive train-wreck for already 15 years and it took 5-30 records for some to finally notice.
Phil-no-Phil there is no magic in the world to resurrect the dead in 5 years or 10 years.
This team should be killed ans rebuild from scratch. It is not ever D-league material Melo included.
Phil started right on point to start getting to the clean slate.
If this will continue with shelving Melo and releasing and stretch-provisioning all we have we are on the right path.
Then we need to draft and develop for 3-5 years and FA will come along as team will show future promise but not earlier than 3 years from now.
If Phil has a plan for this team to contend it is no earlier than in 4-5 years. and this will be his final legacy in NY.
He is not stupid to think he can do any better.
arkrud wrote:dk7th wrote:Splat wrote:BRIGGS wrote:This flush out is all Dolan. This is 15 years of his "input". Dolan hired Phil Jackson who has zero GM experience for more money than the 3 best GMs make combined. Did anyone read that Kyle Lowry piece just put out? Lowry was traded to the Knicks---whether it was Dolan or Phil behind the scenes--they negated a trade for the best player we have any chance at getting unless we get pick 1 for the next 18 months at a minimum. It could get WORSE here it could get real bad. We DO NOT have a pick next year and there is a possibility of the "bust" scenario where we don't do well in the draft and get somewhat shut out in FA. I'm sure there will be a panic mode where we do offer a player a max just to placate the fans--to get something new in here and trade the pick for any exsisting proven player(even if its eats massive cap) If we do the franchise is likely done for 5-7 years. Because the Knicks and their ownership have not put a standard of "restrictive picks" we left ourselves open to disaster--this year its all PURE luck (my God how is this pick not somehow not swapped to a team who has the rights to flip) a device the Knicks concocted to circumvent the two year draft rule(I think it was isiah Thomas) The Knicks are basically a crooked scam organization with Dolan running things the only way he will do it by his last words. So the consumer is fcked by this the fan is fkced by this--and that is that.
Welcome! You have been assimilated into the Borg.
hell is freezing over. fishmike and jrod have headed for the hills. 5-30 is apparently a critical mass point.
Long overdo.
Knicks organization is a massive train-wreck for already 15 years and it took 5-30 records for some to finally notice.
Phil-no-Phil there is no magic in the world to resurrect the dead in 5 years or 10 years.
This team should be killed ans rebuild from scratch. It is not ever D-league material Melo included.
Phil started right on point to start getting to the clean slate.
If this will continue with shelving Melo and releasing and stretch-provisioning all we have we are on the right path.
Then we need to draft and develop for 3-5 years and FA will come along as team will show future promise but not earlier than 3 years from now.
If Phil has a plan for this team to contend it is no earlier than in 4-5 years. and this will be his final legacy in NY.
He is not stupid to think he can do any better.
I don't believe that arkud--I do think a savvy manager with a keen eye for talent and innovative ways to use the cap ALONG with NEEDED luck could change this around faster or atleast in a acutely methodical fashion. But then there is the guy who took his kids out for 600 bucks. Thats more important to Dolan than a long term plan. There is NO chance a Dolan would sell cap space for picks or trade a CA for anything. Cap space to him is a player who will help get this to 41-41 and an 8th seed. Carmelo represents his own philoshophies Look at many years past--S old S.
gunsnewing wrote:hahahahahahaMelo is so f'n digital!
$124M worth of virtual splendor
IMO it doesn't matter how fast Phil can put a contender together. Phil has to make sure that he finds the type of core talent that can be built upon. It doesn't take a rocket scientist or some metrics guy to figure out who the top talents are. Initially Phil has to improve the top talent on the team. IMO this is what Phil has to focus on this summer. After you have your very rare top talent then the metrics stuff has more real value. You don't need metrics to figure out that Tim Duncan is a franchise talent. It's the role players you look to find after that where you need as much insight as possible to find the right players. I feel that Phil will use every means necessary to find the best fits for this team. Just going by his past interest in wisdom and new ways of looking at things, it seems to me that Phil would have high interest in Metrics and anything else that can give him an edge.
F500ONE wrote:dk7th wrote:Splat wrote:dk7th wrote:Splat wrote:BRIGGS wrote:This flush out is all Dolan. This is 15 years of his "input". Dolan hired Phil Jackson who has zero GM experience for more money than the 3 best GMs make combined. Did anyone read that Kyle Lowry piece just put out? Lowry was traded to the Knicks---whether it was Dolan or Phil behind the scenes--they negated a trade for the best player we have any chance at getting unless we get pick 1 for the next 18 months at a minimum. It could get WORSE here it could get real bad. We DO NOT have a pick next year and there is a possibility of the "bust" scenario where we don't do well in the draft and get somewhat shut out in FA. I'm sure there will be a panic mode where we do offer a player a max just to placate the fans--to get something new in here and trade the pick for any exsisting proven player(even if its eats massive cap) If we do the franchise is likely done for 5-7 years. Because the Knicks and their ownership have not put a standard of "restrictive picks" we left ourselves open to disaster--this year its all PURE luck (my God how is this pick not somehow not swapped to a team who has the rights to flip) a device the Knicks concocted to circumvent the two year draft rule(I think it was isiah Thomas) The Knicks are basically a crooked scam organization with Dolan running things the only way he will do it by his last words. So the consumer is fcked by this the fan is fkced by this--and that is that.
Welcome! You have been assimilated into the Borg.
hell is freezing over. fishmike and jrod have headed for the hills. 5-30 is apparently a critical mass point.
They are huddled in a Klondike hut making soup from Melo jerseys ala Chaplin.
and the hats!!!! the hat bands make for a great papardelle pasta.
You Rang!
Isaac Love Boat Melo[GrantLand referred to him as Gilligan...lol]
I had no idea Grantland and USA Today already did this in July and December
But clever minds think alike
Boy do they have some hilarious ones themselves
http://grantland.com/the-triangle/look-a...
http://ftw.usatoday.com/2014/12/the-8-mo...
What A Complete Joke Paraody Of Himself
wow this is just fantastic material. like arkrud says: big circuses need big clowns. nice to see there are haters out there in syndication.
nixluva wrote:IMO it doesn't matter how fast Phil can put a contender together. Phil has to make sure that he finds the type of core talent that can be built upon. It doesn't take a rocket scientist or some metrics guy to figure out who the top talents are. Initially Phil has to improve the top talent on the team. IMO this is what Phil has to focus on this summer. After you have your very rare top talent then the metrics stuff has more real value. You don't need metrics to figure out that Tim Duncan is a franchise talent. It's the role players you look to find after that where you need as much insight as possible to find the right players. I feel that Phil will use every means necessary to find the best fits for this team. Just going by his past interest in wisdom and new ways of looking at things, it seems to me that Phil would have high interest in Metrics and anything else that can give him an edge.
I hope you are right though seeing this force fitting of an archaic triangle and our defensive schemes to clog the paint and have our opponents raining threes on us, I am not so confident.
nixluva wrote:IMO it doesn't matter how fast Phil can put a contender together. Phil has to make sure that he finds the type of core talent that can be built upon. It doesn't take a rocket scientist or some metrics guy to figure out who the top talents are. Initially Phil has to improve the top talent on the team. IMO this is what Phil has to focus on this summer. After you have your very rare top talent then the metrics stuff has more real value. You don't need metrics to figure out that Tim Duncan is a franchise talent. It's the role players you look to find after that where you need as much insight as possible to find the right players. I feel that Phil will use every means necessary to find the best fits for this team. Just going by his past interest in wisdom and new ways of looking at things, it seems to me that Phil would have high interest in Metrics and anything else that can give him an edge.
Hmmm. I guess you just figured out a way to save 28 NBA teams millions of dollars!
(The magnificent Magic and Bobcats are the only teams without metrics departments now)
If everything the metrics could tell us was so obvious, people would have realized this wasn't a .600+ team immediately. And the Calderon trade would have never happened. And Melo wouldn't have the largest basketball contract on the planet.
There's no such thing as "top talent" that you don't need the metrics for. The metrics will make it clearer than the eyeball test as to which "top talent" (like Melo) is just being overrated and which (like Harden when he was an FA) is being overlooked.
nixluva wrote:IMO it doesn't matter how fast Phil can put a contender together. Phil has to make sure that he finds the type of core talent that can be built upon. It doesn't take a rocket scientist or some metrics guy to figure out who the top talents are. Initially Phil has to improve the top talent on the team. IMO this is what Phil has to focus on this summer. After you have your very rare top talent then the metrics stuff has more real value. You don't need metrics to figure out that Tim Duncan is a franchise talent. It's the role players you look to find after that where you need as much insight as possible to find the right players. I feel that Phil will use every means necessary to find the best fits for this team. Just going by his past interest in wisdom and new ways of looking at things, it seems to me that Phil would have high interest in Metrics and anything else that can give him an edge.
You do need some metrics in play
Take for instance J.R. Smith is more talented
Than say 85% of the players in this league
But metrics will tell how much of a Devil he is in misusing abusing the talent
How much he kills on court team chemistry
Metric analytics will get you Draymond Green instead of J.R. Smith
It will get you Paul Gasol instead of Amar'e Stoudemire
Conversely it can get you into deep deep deep deep deep deep deep deep deep deep du-du
Like getting Jose Calderon instead of Andre Miller
Maybe the question is also why do so many have so little faith?
5-30 sucks. Few saw this coming.
Change of culture is a lot of things. When you go to boot camp in the military they break you down, then put you back together.
Faith is defined as "an unsubstantiated belief". No basis historically to say phil as an exec will transform the team because he has never done it. At the same time one can say that about a lot of GM's who we could have hired. Masai in Toronto had assets and has picks.
The contrarian side of thinks a man with different thinking might succeed instead of following a similar matrix. If this is the case in NY, then its a risk. To follow the media's short sighted anger technique and supplant it as an original thought makes some of you look really bandwagon jumpers who are piling on the 5-30 hate feast.
I have no basis but faith in Phil. Zen philosophy when applied to business is actually a very effective tool. it takes out wishful thinking and the emotional baggage of what has already transpired.
Really, if there is a change in policy and cultural change then it really does not matter what has transpired previously. If Dolan is truly out of the decision process then one can say this will effect the future.
Winning now is not possible. Tickets might be sold and if one was gullible, its to think Phil would have effected great change right away. True there is a starphuch aspect to his hiring. This sells tickets.
Was there another way? Always. IN the face of a failure the logical conclusion is "well anything would have been better than 5-30!"
Effective cultural change? 35 games to conclude this? It takes years. No patience in the Mecca.
nixluva wrote:IMO it doesn't matter how fast Phil can put a contender together. According to you? Jim Dolan may think there is still a magic pill and sign more expensive stiffs. Phil has to make sure that he finds the type of core talent that can be built upon. It doesn't take a rocket scientist or some metrics guy to figure out who the top talents are. If that is the case what we are doing with Carmelo Anthony? Initially Phil has to improve the top talent on the team. So what was $124M spent on? Salad dressing? IMO this is what Phil has to focus on this summer. After you have your very rare top talent then the metrics stuff has more real value. So $124M didn't buy us that "VERY RARE TOP TALENT"? So now we're going to find one in the desk drawer and by winning the lottery? You don't need metrics to figure out that Tim Duncan is a franchise talent. I thought we paid $124M for our franchise player? It's the role players you look to find after that where you need as much insight as possible to find the right players. I feel that Phil will use every means necessary to find the best fits for this team. Wake up kiddo! Phil is adrift and rudderless. Pay attention!!!! (extra exclamation points just for you) Just going by his past interest in wisdom and new ways of looking at things, it seems to me that Phil would have high interest in Metrics and anything else that can give him an edge. You didn't just say that did you? Talking about desperation. Are you sure you're not a PR man? Phil's interest in wisdom? You don't know what you are talking about. Wisdom is manifested, not extrapolated. Phil's ego games don't mean jack now.
You're still farting platitudes buddy
Everything you're pumping is garbage. You can't have your cake and eat it too.
Keep telling yourself you're going to build a scaffold of gold around the Leaning Tower of Melo. Continuing to lie to yourself like you do will turn you into a newt. Or a shrubbery.
Did you even read what I wrote to you in the carmarshmello thread? You're embarrassing the crap out of yourself.
You want to be a superfan? Team up with Briggs and organize petitions and public protests and get Melo off this team. Or you can keep posting clueless nonsense. No, I don't want to organize anything. You're the superfan.
