Knicks · Watch Miami--i.e Hassan Whiteside (page 1)

This guy has really improved--he's a player. Sometimes it takes bigger guys time but we need to track him as he could be a cheaper solution as a free agent big man. We cant pay everyone 13+mm we need some 3-4 mm dollar cost conscious players to help mold it and keep things flexible. He's one helluva long athletic athlete.

BRIGGS wrote:This guy has really improved--he's a player. Sometimes it takes bigger guys time but we need to track him as he could be a cheaper solution as a free agent big man. We cant pay everyone 13+mm we need some 3-4 mm dollar cost conscious players to help mold it and keep things flexible. He's one helluva long athletic athlete.

Come on he looked shaky early in his career

Couldn't even break through in the mighty town of Sacramento

It's taken him like 4-5yrs now, oh wait maybe

This is a result of mismanaging a young asset

Finished with 10 points 8 rebounds 4 blocks in 19 minutes only + player Miami had.

Miami needs to move Andersen out and give this guy 30+ min

F500ONE wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:This guy has really improved--he's a player. Sometimes it takes bigger guys time but we need to track him as he could be a cheaper solution as a free agent big man. We cant pay everyone 13+mm we need some 3-4 mm dollar cost conscious players to help mold it and keep things flexible. He's one helluva long athletic athlete.

Come he looked shaky early in his career

Couldn't even break through in the mighty town of Sacramento

It's taken him like 4-5yrs now, oh wait maybe

This is a result of mismanaging a young asset

Or a player not good enough until he filled out, matured, and figured it out.
The kid was raw.
He has bounced around. I don't thnk he was mismanaged.

Briggy has held vigil for this kid a long time!!!! I hope he sticks.

TripleThreat wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:This guy has really improved--he's a player. Sometimes it takes bigger guys time but we need to track him as he could be a cheaper solution as a free agent big man. We cant pay everyone 13+mm we need some 3-4 mm dollar cost conscious players to help mold it and keep things flexible. He's one helluva long athletic athlete.

IMHO, the question still persists. To really heavily mine the 2nd round of the draft and try to hit on some key UDFA's to fill out a roster and back end of a rotation, would that be more likely the result of the work of a young GM, who has spent time and blood in as an assistant and had to do scouting and deal with agents and spent years in the front office trenches, or would it be likely the result of a 70 year old first time GM who is busy trying to say savvy things to the media and bending Jeannie Buss over his office desk?

Could a player like Whiteside help the Knicks? Possibly, probably likely.

But more critically, could Phil Jackson find this kid? Could Phil Jackson navigate the ins and outs of how to deal with UDFA's and back end roster churn to identify the best of the rest? Does Zen Master know how to leverage these guys with their contracts?

The Knicks have already found two undrafted rookie free agents in Wear and Galloway that look like they are going to minimally be rotation players for a long time on Jackson's watch and we are only 1/2 way through his first season. They also have a second rounder in Early who looked really good last night. The team is using the d-league the right way. 39 games in and the Knicks have three rookies on their roster that look like players. Is Jackson and his scouting staff good or his he just lucky?

TripleThreat wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:This guy has really improved--he's a player. Sometimes it takes bigger guys time but we need to track him as he could be a cheaper solution as a free agent big man. We cant pay everyone 13+mm we need some 3-4 mm dollar cost conscious players to help mold it and keep things flexible. He's one helluva long athletic athlete.

IMHO, the question still persists. To really heavily mine the 2nd round of the draft and try to hit on some key UDFA's to fill out a roster and back end of a rotation, would that be more likely the result of the work of a young GM, who has spent time and blood in as an assistant and had to do scouting and deal with agents and spent years in the front office trenches, or would it be likely the result of a 70 year old first time GM who is busy trying to say savvy things to the media and bending Jeannie Buss over his office desk?

Could a player like Whiteside help the Knicks? Possibly, probably likely.

But more critically, could Phil Jackson find this kid? Could Phil Jackson navigate the ins and outs of how to deal with UDFA's and back end roster churn to identify the best of the rest? Does Zen Master know how to leverage these guys with their contracts?

He won't have to look far, he's on the Miami Heat. I was talking about looking at him as a cheap free agent possibility since we have no bigs--we need a cadre and we cant pay each one 15mm.

CrushAlot wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:This guy has really improved--he's a player. Sometimes it takes bigger guys time but we need to track him as he could be a cheaper solution as a free agent big man. We cant pay everyone 13+mm we need some 3-4 mm dollar cost conscious players to help mold it and keep things flexible. He's one helluva long athletic athlete.

IMHO, the question still persists. To really heavily mine the 2nd round of the draft and try to hit on some key UDFA's to fill out a roster and back end of a rotation, would that be more likely the result of the work of a young GM, who has spent time and blood in as an assistant and had to do scouting and deal with agents and spent years in the front office trenches, or would it be likely the result of a 70 year old first time GM who is busy trying to say savvy things to the media and bending Jeannie Buss over his office desk?

Could a player like Whiteside help the Knicks? Possibly, probably likely.

But more critically, could Phil Jackson find this kid? Could Phil Jackson navigate the ins and outs of how to deal with UDFA's and back end roster churn to identify the best of the rest? Does Zen Master know how to leverage these guys with their contracts?

The Knicks have already found two undrafted rookie free agents in Wear and Galloway that look like they are going to minimally be rotation players for a long time on Jackson's watch and we are only 1/2 way through his first season. They also have a second rounder in Early who looked really good last night. The team is using the d-league the right way. 39 games in and the Knicks have three rookies on their roster that look like players. Is Jackson and his scouting staff good or his he just lucky?

Respectfully, I just don't see it with any of our young guys. Early I can see a little something in I suppose (as in willing to carry over to next year and keep developing--he can definitely go if the right deal presented itself though) but Galloway and Wear are not NBA players imo. And I haven't liked THJ since day 1. I was even wrong about Quincy Acy--I thought with more touches, Acy was ready to step up in this league and become a legit threat on both ends but sadly, that's not the case...Galloway's trying out there and he can shoot the ball but he looks severely limited to me otherwise. They won't do it but up to me, I'd wipe the slate clean, even regarding our own young players. There are better options out there -- for instance, you can't convince me that Travis Wear's a better player than JayMychal Green. Or that Langston Galloway's better than Bryce Cotton. It's just not so. Not the case at all. The latter players are head & shoulders better than our own young guys.

I think we might feel some sense of obligation going with our own Westchester guys ahead of some of the other premier DL talent that's out there for the taking and I think that's a mistake. I respect the loyalty that we're showing in a way I guess--it's good to reward our own Westchester guys and show them that there's something to shoot for--but I think it might be going on to a fault. Maybe H2O should've concentrated on loading up the Westchester Knicks a little better in the beginning if that's how they felt. Phil needs to learn how to admit he was wrong--that's what it might come down to. He seemed to admit he was wrong about Shumpert, unloading him for nothing a few days ago after admitting to everyone that he was one of his favorite Knicks when he first came aboard. OK, now how about admitting you were wrong about the Chandler deal (in a weird sense he may have been right though, even if the talent he got back isn't as good as we thought and even with Calderon's bad contract---with Chandler, we definitely would've won more games up to this point, even a handful, and probably wouldn't be thinking a top 1-3 pick was in reach--can't convince me that was Phil's intention when he made the deal but it's a nice silver lining that has developed). and then admit you were wrong about some of this young talent you brought on board. I'd like to see him adjust a little better on the fly with stuff. He seems a step slow to me or maybe it's just a matter of being overly loyal to his own young talent that he himself helped hand pick. Sometimes stuff doesn't work out after awhile--I'd like to see us adjust accordingly and a hell of a lot quicker on some stuff. Up to me -- Wear and Acy should be cut--I'd like to see those spots filled with 2 premier DL players. I'd even cut Galloway after 10 days and go in a different direction there too if better option are still out there. And I wouldn't necessarily concentrate solely on "triangle players" whatever the hell that even means. Go get the best talent you can find. Period. How a guy might look in the triangle one day would be of no concern to me at all. Furthest thing from my mind. Some on this board will argue that aspect, but it's just how I feel. Our best player isn't even a prototypical "triangle guy" and we gave him $125mm. How 'bout that?? We should be in the talent accumulation phase right now until further notice and on every level -- upcoming FA, the NBA trade front, the draft, signing players to 10-day contracts etc.. Even putting together the Vegas Summer League team and the Westchester DL roster -- every part of this rebuilding process needs to be taken super serious. I can't even say that enough. I'm sick of looking around the league and seeing things being done better.

BRIGGS wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:This guy has really improved--he's a player. Sometimes it takes bigger guys time but we need to track him as he could be a cheaper solution as a free agent big man. We cant pay everyone 13+mm we need some 3-4 mm dollar cost conscious players to help mold it and keep things flexible. He's one helluva long athletic athlete.

IMHO, the question still persists. To really heavily mine the 2nd round of the draft and try to hit on some key UDFA's to fill out a roster and back end of a rotation, would that be more likely the result of the work of a young GM, who has spent time and blood in as an assistant and had to do scouting and deal with agents and spent years in the front office trenches, or would it be likely the result of a 70 year old first time GM who is busy trying to say savvy things to the media and bending Jeannie Buss over his office desk?

Could a player like Whiteside help the Knicks? Possibly, probably likely.

But more critically, could Phil Jackson find this kid? Could Phil Jackson navigate the ins and outs of how to deal with UDFA's and back end roster churn to identify the best of the rest? Does Zen Master know how to leverage these guys with their contracts?

He won't have to look far, he's on the Miami Heat. I was talking about looking at him as a cheap free agent possibility since we have no bigs--we need a cadre and we cant pay each one 15mm.

The kid has always had the athletic part. Its my take that PHil likes bigs who can pop out and hit a midrange shot. Does he have any offensive ability skill that might be contributory to the Triangle concept?

Nalod wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:This guy has really improved--he's a player. Sometimes it takes bigger guys time but we need to track him as he could be a cheaper solution as a free agent big man. We cant pay everyone 13+mm we need some 3-4 mm dollar cost conscious players to help mold it and keep things flexible. He's one helluva long athletic athlete.

IMHO, the question still persists. To really heavily mine the 2nd round of the draft and try to hit on some key UDFA's to fill out a roster and back end of a rotation, would that be more likely the result of the work of a young GM, who has spent time and blood in as an assistant and had to do scouting and deal with agents and spent years in the front office trenches, or would it be likely the result of a 70 year old first time GM who is busy trying to say savvy things to the media and bending Jeannie Buss over his office desk?

Could a player like Whiteside help the Knicks? Possibly, probably likely.

But more critically, could Phil Jackson find this kid? Could Phil Jackson navigate the ins and outs of how to deal with UDFA's and back end roster churn to identify the best of the rest? Does Zen Master know how to leverage these guys with their contracts?

He won't have to look far, he's on the Miami Heat. I was talking about looking at him as a cheap free agent possibility since we have no bigs--we need a cadre and we cant pay each one 15mm.

The kid has always had the athletic part. Its my take that PHil likes bigs who can pop out and hit a midrange shot. Does he have any offensive ability skill that might be contributory to the Triangle concept?

We need a cadre of bigs. I'm looking for affordable quality talent with size that can protect the rim

Nalod wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:This guy has really improved--he's a player. Sometimes it takes bigger guys time but we need to track him as he could be a cheaper solution as a free agent big man. We cant pay everyone 13+mm we need some 3-4 mm dollar cost conscious players to help mold it and keep things flexible. He's one helluva long athletic athlete.

Come he looked shaky early in his career

Couldn't even break through in the mighty town of Sacramento

It's taken him like 4-5yrs now, oh wait maybe

This is a result of mismanaging a young asset

Or a player not good enough until he filled out, matured, and figured it out.
The kid was raw.
He has bounced around. I don't thnk he was mismanaged.

Briggy has held vigil for this kid a long time!!!! I hope he sticks.

Yeah because Sacramento after landing in the lottery

Year after year since drafting him proved they had players so much

Better than him, he was a 2nd round pick it's not like he created any major risk

To their team, proper development also means sticking it out with a player in patience

He got injured early on in his career barely played a lick

So instead of waiving-cutting him to sign Aaron Brooks

When the team already had Tyreke Evans, Isiah Thomas, Jimmer Fredette, Marcus Thornton, Francisco Garcia

How guard centric that team was

Send him to your D-League affiliate connect him with a big man's coach

Until he receives a clear look, provided a fair shake

Show the same patience as they did putting up with Boogie's nasty attitude and immature ways

And while you're talking Whiteside probably doesn't get burn in Miami had McRoberts and Bosh remained healthy

This is what happens when you develop by accident

So many posters bash Briggs for Whiteside in the past

His ceiling was high, big men take time to develop, and it looks like he has been working hard on and off the court
While signing big named free agents are needed, finding steals in FA/D League/International players, having a strong development system, and taking some risks are needed
Having role players motivated and taking philosophies off ALL great teams are needed
Teams like Atlanta, Golden State, Chicago, and Spurs, ALL play great team defense every night, have multiple players that sacrifice for the better of the team, have talent/depth/versatility in all positions, and always hit it to the open man

When watching Golden State this year, Kerr has truly took a page of ALL his experiences/philosophies in his entire career as a player, GM, scout/analyst, and was able to transfer his knowledge and improve the roster even more

He took the philosophies of

Dantoni
Spurs
Phil Jackson

and knows how to motivate ALL his players/bench, while building the confidence/development of all his role players

If you watch them, he runs many different schemes that fit to the strengths of his team, including always hitting the open man and taking high % shots, outside of Curry who has the green light but doesn't always take bad shots, looking to get others involved as well

To initiate their offense, they use many picks/double picks/ to go with their ability to stretch the floor
When they throw the ball to the post, the other 4 players move together, and see how the defense will react, looking for the open man/mismatch

Kerr was prepared to be a coach and is highly intelligent, although never having actual coaching experience

We simply are very far from assemblying a roster and then need to continue to build chemistry
It is a process that takes time, however, it is essential

If we do not get the #1 overall pick and draft OK4, I think we will have a very hard time building a team that will be able to contend unless we sign multiple players like Whiteside that are cheap but have the ability to improve while locked in at cheap contracts

It looks like Galloway is a steal and a very solid PG/SG with good shooting ability and understanding of the triangle
The young guys look much better in executing the system, despite the lack of talent to win games

If we are unable to land the pick to draft OK4 and Towns, I certainly would look to see if I can trade down to the highest bidder with many teams having many picks in this draft and future picks, as well as young players
We need to constantly improve and just to limited with all the picks we have already traded
Now if we can get back multiple 1st and 2nd rounders in this draft and future drafts, if a team overpays for this pick, i would be all for it
In addition, look to trade CA if we are unable to build a roster and attract the FA's needed this summer

We overpayed by trading for CA, Denver saved over 60m in tax/salaries that year
Dumping many junk contracts to us

- 1 first rounder/ 2 swap
- 1 first rounder for Felton and swap of Andre Miller
- 2 first rounders for MosGoV

- 2 2nd rounders we got from Golden State for David Lee
- Wilson Chandler, who can easily get a 1st rounder if they wanted
- Gallo, has been injured for the most part, but if they wanted they could have easily traded him for at least 1 first round pick

BRIGGS wrote:This guy has really improved--he's a player. Sometimes it takes bigger guys time but we need to track him as he could be a cheaper solution as a free agent big man. We cant pay everyone 13+mm we need some 3-4 mm dollar cost conscious players to help mold it and keep things flexible. He's one helluva long athletic athlete.

Dude's not terrible. Very serviceable and there's still room for some growth...I thought he would've been a little more of a player by now but yeah, sometimes certain guys do take longer. Not like he was afforded some long run with an NBA team yet. Hasn't gotten a real opportunity yet...Also, sometimes guys just get branded or stigmatized a certain way and it's hard for them to overcome that, no matter what they do in the DL or show abroad. Probably a little bit of both with Whiteside. Completely agree that we can't have a whole team comprised of big-money players. Definitely need some talented low-cost options on the roster for balance and to maintain flexibility. Well said. Just as important to make good decisions on these types of players on a roster along with the higher-salary talent. It goes hand in hand imo...Whiteside looks like an option for us for next year. Not seeing it with Miami so far but this kid can actually shoot the ball in the mid-range too btw, one of the many reasons I liked him coming outta Marshall. A few options with this type of player (backup C to hopefully an Okafor/Towns in the draft, or a guy like DeAndre Jordan/Enes Kanter in FA-- stick with Cole Aldrich, sign Whiteside, maybe sign a Jeff Whitey, etc..

I wonder if we can sign Whiteside this summer, for 2m - 2.5m on a multiyear deal with team option for 2nd/3rd year

Just because a player makes more does not make them better players, we need to find many player in many positions that FIT TOGETHER and the philosophy/system that would work together
I think Whiteside would love the opportunity to be a POST player with the sucess of players we have had in the past
Making it more realistic than praying a Paul Millsap, Marc Gasol, LA, would come this summer, possibly even taking less

We continue to see it throughout the league

Young players getting a chance to play due to circumstance

Proving they are more than capable of holding the jock straps

Of those players, playing ahead of them

And it's the extremes where I'm dialing in on

It's like if so-and-so player wasn't hurt or because so-and-so player

Is in a contract year then you mr talented green guy must sit

Some of these guys would never see any burn if it wasn't because of

- Original plan blew up in the face of implementer, lack of team success

- Injuries to players placed well ahead of them on the depth chart

- Mgmt makes request to see more of the player

Playing players simply because they are vets is

Coaching without much principle at all

Shumpert came in and started day 1 ahead of Fields[who did have a good rookie yr]

As did Fields[2nd round unknown pick] himself [who had a very strong SL showing like Wear given minutes played]

No one found it bizarre or questioned those player's ability and integrity to hold

Down the positions when given the opportunity

Players that know how to play on the ball, to create their own shots and create shots for others are needed

Players that know how to play on the ball and off the ball and play good defense, we need multiple players that could do this...

RonRon wrote:So many posters bash Briggs for Whiteside in the past

His ceiling was high, big men take time to develop, and it looks like he has been working hard on and off the court
While signing big named free agents are needed, finding steals in FA/D League/International players, having a strong development system, and taking some risks are needed
Having role players motivated and taking philosophies off ALL great teams are needed
Teams like Atlanta, Golden State, Chicago, and Spurs, ALL play great team defense every night, have multiple players that sacrifice for the better of the team, have talent/depth/versatility in all positions, and always hit it to the open man

When watching Golden State this year, Kerr has truly took a page of ALL his experiences/philosophies in his entire career as a player, GM, scout/analyst, and was able to transfer his knowledge and improve the roster even more

He took the philosophies of

Dantoni
Spurs
Phil Jackson

and knows how to motivate ALL his players/bench, while building the confidence/development of all his role players

If you watch them, he runs many different schemes that fit to the strengths of his team, including always hitting the open man and taking high % shots, outside of Curry who has the green light but doesn't always take bad shots, looking to get others involved as well

To initiate their offense, they use many picks/double picks/ to go with their ability to stretch the floor
When they throw the ball to the post, the other 4 players move together, and see how the defense will react, looking for the open man/mismatch

Kerr was prepared to be a coach and is highly intelligent, although never having actual coaching experience

We simply are very far from assemblying a roster and then need to continue to build chemistry
It is a process that takes time, however, it is essential

If we do not get the #1 overall pick and draft OK4, I think we will have a very hard time building a team that will be able to contend unless we sign multiple players like Whiteside that are cheap but have the ability to improve while locked in at cheap contracts

It looks like Galloway is a steal and a very solid PG/SG with good shooting ability and understanding of the triangle
The young guys look much better in executing the system, despite the lack of talent to win games

If we are unable to land the pick to draft OK4 and Towns, I certainly would look to see if I can trade down to the highest bidder with many teams having many picks in this draft and future picks, as well as young players
We need to constantly improve and just to limited with all the picks we have already traded
Now if we can get back multiple 1st and 2nd rounders in this draft and future drafts, if a team overpays for this pick, i would be all for it
In addition, look to trade CA if we are unable to build a roster and attract the FA's needed this summer

We overpayed by trading for CA, Denver saved over 60m in tax/salaries that year
Dumping many junk contracts to us

- 1 first rounder/ 2 swap
- 1 first rounder for Felton and swap of Andre Miller
- 2 first rounders for MosGoV

- 2 2nd rounders we got from Golden State for David Lee
- Wilson Chandler, who can easily get a 1st rounder if they wanted
- Gallo, has been injured for the most part, but if they wanted they could have easily traded him for at least 1 first round pick

I wouldve taken Whiteside a long time ago--and maybe I'm wrong? But I think in the end Whiteside if he stays healthy--hes going to play like he is now or even better. And if so--the Heat got a steal at the hardest position to fill with talent

White side today 23pts. 16reb. 4blocks

Wow. Looks like Miami might have his rights next year. On trade checker his contract is for 2 years.

Yup. Just coming on to post this. Per Barry Jackson's twitter, the deal's for two years:

https://twitter.com/flasportsbuzz

Would've been nice but we can forget this guy for next year. Nice heads up move by the Heat. Really paying dividends for them.

This guy is playing out of his mind. To think anyone couldve swiped him a few weeks ago.

BRIGGS wrote:This guy is playing out of his mind. To think anyone couldve swiped him a few weeks ago.

He is playing ridiculous basketball.

Did you call that? If you did, then kudos to you!