Knicks · A Very Good Read From Bergen Record on Phil & Fish (page 5)
CrushAlot wrote:dk7th wrote:Isn't the goal to become successful while creating something sustainable? Grunwald put together a roster that won 54 games but age and health issues derailed that. It seems like what Phil is trying to do is create something that will last more than a year or two. The Knicks have three rookies, two second year players, their first round pick and will have cap space and roster spots. It hasn't been pretty but if you asked me to make a list of guys that I thought needed to be moved out after last year Iman, JR, and Tyson would be at the top.nixluva wrote:So tiring reading the Negative Nancy Bitch Brigade spin everything towards Doom and Gloom.Phil did some good and made some mistakes. Phil's most important decisions are ahead of him. Contrary to the negative spinners Phil turned the Tyson trade into some young prospects. Larkin, Early, Thanasis, Labeyrie and Acy. Then he added Galloway and Wear as prospects. We have our Pick and cap space. Phil has 4 Trade Exceptions. Only 4 guaranteed contracts for next year and we still haven't reached the Trade Deadline. We don't know how Phil will use his cap space in Free Agency but it's good to have money to spend.
The Knicks still have their 1st rd picks in 2015, 2017, 2018, 2019 etc. If Phil can manage to replenish the 2016 and get some 2nd rounders it will set things straight again. This team's future is unwritten but that doesn't mean it's doomed to failure.
so you-- our resident visionary-- believe that drafting-- and developing-- players over the course of carmelo anthony's remaining career here will yield some sort of consistent contender, or, form a team that has a puncher's chance of getting to, say... the conference finals in the next several seasons? that's putting a pretty big burden on carmelo anthony, to say the least: remaining healthy, changing his game to conform to the triangle, providing leadership, being the cornerstone....
anyway, relevance.... second round competitiveness (we haven't seen that yet), conference finals appearances (same), finals appearances (what are those?)... is that what you see being "written?"
We are just judging on the moves that phil made so far and it ain't a pretty picture. He still has a chance to reboot and try again so we will see ...
dk7th wrote:Same old Melo stuff with you. Again, it would be nice if you could come up with something else. New management team, new coaching staff, a roster that will be almost entirely turned over, an attempt to play a system, a d league team that is being utilized, bringing in undrafted rookies etc, a high lottery pick. Not a lot of change?CrushAlot wrote:dk7th wrote:Isn't the goal to become successful while creating something sustainable? Grunwald put together a roster that won 54 games but age and health issues derailed that. It seems like what Phil is trying to do is create something that will last more than a year or two. The Knicks have three rookies, two second year players, their first round pick and will have cap space and roster spots. It hasn't been pretty but if you asked me to make a list of guys that I thought needed to be moved out after last year Iman, JR, and Tyson would be at the top.nixluva wrote:So tiring reading the Negative Nancy Bitch Brigade spin everything towards Doom and Gloom.Phil did some good and made some mistakes. Phil's most important decisions are ahead of him. Contrary to the negative spinners Phil turned the Tyson trade into some young prospects. Larkin, Early, Thanasis, Labeyrie and Acy. Then he added Galloway and Wear as prospects. We have our Pick and cap space. Phil has 4 Trade Exceptions. Only 4 guaranteed contracts for next year and we still haven't reached the Trade Deadline. We don't know how Phil will use his cap space in Free Agency but it's good to have money to spend.
The Knicks still have their 1st rd picks in 2015, 2017, 2018, 2019 etc. If Phil can manage to replenish the 2016 and get some 2nd rounders it will set things straight again. This team's future is unwritten but that doesn't mean it's doomed to failure.
so you-- our resident visionary-- believe that drafting-- and developing-- players over the course of carmelo anthony's remaining career here will yield some sort of consistent contender, or, form a team that has a puncher's chance of getting to, say... the conference finals in the next several seasons? that's putting a pretty big burden on carmelo anthony, to say the least: remaining healthy, changing his game to conform to the triangle, providing leadership, being the cornerstone....
anyway, relevance.... second round competitiveness (we haven't seen that yet), conference finals appearances (same), finals appearances (what are those?)... is that what you see being "written?"
success and sustainability depend on culture change. i have yet to see culture change. in fact, getting rid of chandler-- admittedly a non-triangle player-- is not culture change, it smacks of pandering to dolan and melo.
a program, a system, requires players to execute it. even by getting rid of all the players who do not belong you are still left with one player who has NEVER conformed to any sort of structured offense. this "other level" that we were promised has not materialized. whose fault is that? let me guess: everyone else's but melo's, right?
CrushAlot wrote:dk7th wrote:Same old Melo stuff with you. Again, it would be nice if you could come up with something else. New management team, new coaching staff, a roster that will be almost entirely turned over, an attempt to play a system, a d league team that is being utilized, bringing in undrafted rookies etc, a high lottery pick. Not a lot of change?CrushAlot wrote:dk7th wrote:Isn't the goal to become successful while creating something sustainable? Grunwald put together a roster that won 54 games but age and health issues derailed that. It seems like what Phil is trying to do is create something that will last more than a year or two. The Knicks have three rookies, two second year players, their first round pick and will have cap space and roster spots. It hasn't been pretty but if you asked me to make a list of guys that I thought needed to be moved out after last year Iman, JR, and Tyson would be at the top.nixluva wrote:So tiring reading the Negative Nancy Bitch Brigade spin everything towards Doom and Gloom.Phil did some good and made some mistakes. Phil's most important decisions are ahead of him. Contrary to the negative spinners Phil turned the Tyson trade into some young prospects. Larkin, Early, Thanasis, Labeyrie and Acy. Then he added Galloway and Wear as prospects. We have our Pick and cap space. Phil has 4 Trade Exceptions. Only 4 guaranteed contracts for next year and we still haven't reached the Trade Deadline. We don't know how Phil will use his cap space in Free Agency but it's good to have money to spend.
The Knicks still have their 1st rd picks in 2015, 2017, 2018, 2019 etc. If Phil can manage to replenish the 2016 and get some 2nd rounders it will set things straight again. This team's future is unwritten but that doesn't mean it's doomed to failure.
so you-- our resident visionary-- believe that drafting-- and developing-- players over the course of carmelo anthony's remaining career here will yield some sort of consistent contender, or, form a team that has a puncher's chance of getting to, say... the conference finals in the next several seasons? that's putting a pretty big burden on carmelo anthony, to say the least: remaining healthy, changing his game to conform to the triangle, providing leadership, being the cornerstone....
anyway, relevance.... second round competitiveness (we haven't seen that yet), conference finals appearances (same), finals appearances (what are those?)... is that what you see being "written?"
success and sustainability depend on culture change. i have yet to see culture change. in fact, getting rid of chandler-- admittedly a non-triangle player-- is not culture change, it smacks of pandering to dolan and melo.
a program, a system, requires players to execute it. even by getting rid of all the players who do not belong you are still left with one player who has NEVER conformed to any sort of structured offense. this "other level" that we were promised has not materialized. whose fault is that? let me guess: everyone else's but melo's, right?
how can you say there has been change, and newness, when the team has tethered its fortunes to one player who has, again, NEVER shown an aptitude to adapt to others? you talk about constant whining-- well melo is the constant on this team and i have yet to see anything consistently inspiring about his game over his entire career.
do you seem him developing or taking his game to the next level? a thirty-year old player who turns thirty-one in may and who is clearly breaking down even as he becomes a self-proclaimed digital athlete?
a yes-no question requires "yes" or "no" as an answer. will you be able to muster the intellectual honesty and goodwill to simply answer "yes" or "no"???
surprise me.
dk7th wrote:CrushAlot wrote:dk7th wrote:Same old Melo stuff with you. Again, it would be nice if you could come up with something else. New management team, new coaching staff, a roster that will be almost entirely turned over, an attempt to play a system, a d league team that is being utilized, bringing in undrafted rookies etc, a high lottery pick. Not a lot of change?CrushAlot wrote:dk7th wrote:Isn't the goal to become successful while creating something sustainable? Grunwald put together a roster that won 54 games but age and health issues derailed that. It seems like what Phil is trying to do is create something that will last more than a year or two. The Knicks have three rookies, two second year players, their first round pick and will have cap space and roster spots. It hasn't been pretty but if you asked me to make a list of guys that I thought needed to be moved out after last year Iman, JR, and Tyson would be at the top.nixluva wrote:So tiring reading the Negative Nancy Bitch Brigade spin everything towards Doom and Gloom.Phil did some good and made some mistakes. Phil's most important decisions are ahead of him. Contrary to the negative spinners Phil turned the Tyson trade into some young prospects. Larkin, Early, Thanasis, Labeyrie and Acy. Then he added Galloway and Wear as prospects. We have our Pick and cap space. Phil has 4 Trade Exceptions. Only 4 guaranteed contracts for next year and we still haven't reached the Trade Deadline. We don't know how Phil will use his cap space in Free Agency but it's good to have money to spend.
The Knicks still have their 1st rd picks in 2015, 2017, 2018, 2019 etc. If Phil can manage to replenish the 2016 and get some 2nd rounders it will set things straight again. This team's future is unwritten but that doesn't mean it's doomed to failure.
so you-- our resident visionary-- believe that drafting-- and developing-- players over the course of carmelo anthony's remaining career here will yield some sort of consistent contender, or, form a team that has a puncher's chance of getting to, say... the conference finals in the next several seasons? that's putting a pretty big burden on carmelo anthony, to say the least: remaining healthy, changing his game to conform to the triangle, providing leadership, being the cornerstone....
anyway, relevance.... second round competitiveness (we haven't seen that yet), conference finals appearances (same), finals appearances (what are those?)... is that what you see being "written?"
success and sustainability depend on culture change. i have yet to see culture change. in fact, getting rid of chandler-- admittedly a non-triangle player-- is not culture change, it smacks of pandering to dolan and melo.
a program, a system, requires players to execute it. even by getting rid of all the players who do not belong you are still left with one player who has NEVER conformed to any sort of structured offense. this "other level" that we were promised has not materialized. whose fault is that? let me guess: everyone else's but melo's, right?
how can you say there has been change, and newness, when the team has tethered its fortunes to one player who has, again, NEVER shown an aptitude to adapt to others? you talk about constant whining-- well melo is the constant on this team and i have yet to see anything consistently inspiring about his game over his entire career.
do you seem him developing or taking his game to the next level? a thirty-year old player who turns thirty-one in may and who is clearly breaking down even as he becomes a self-proclaimed digital athlete?
a yes-no question requires "yes" or "no" as an answer. will you be able to muster the intellectual honesty and goodwill to simply answer "yes" or "no"???
surprise me.
do you seem him developing or taking his game to the next level? a thirty-year old player who turns thirty-one in may and who is clearly breaking down even as he becomes a self-proclaimed digital athlete?
Sounds like you already wrote the answer you anticipate. But yeah I think he will evolve. He will have a new set of teammates and hopefully a huge talent upgrade. He will be playing in an offense that if executed should make it easier for him to be effective. Fisher has been a disappointment but you have to hope he resets and gets his guys playing better d. You see Melo, I see team. It isn't just about Melo. Right now it is mainly about Phil and what he can do to improve the overall talent level on the roster. Once that is done hopefully Fisher doesn't look like a disaster.
CrushAlot wrote:dk7th wrote:CrushAlot wrote:dk7th wrote:Same old Melo stuff with you. Again, it would be nice if you could come up with something else. New management team, new coaching staff, a roster that will be almost entirely turned over, an attempt to play a system, a d league team that is being utilized, bringing in undrafted rookies etc, a high lottery pick. Not a lot of change?CrushAlot wrote:dk7th wrote:Isn't the goal to become successful while creating something sustainable? Grunwald put together a roster that won 54 games but age and health issues derailed that. It seems like what Phil is trying to do is create something that will last more than a year or two. The Knicks have three rookies, two second year players, their first round pick and will have cap space and roster spots. It hasn't been pretty but if you asked me to make a list of guys that I thought needed to be moved out after last year Iman, JR, and Tyson would be at the top.nixluva wrote:So tiring reading the Negative Nancy Bitch Brigade spin everything towards Doom and Gloom.Phil did some good and made some mistakes. Phil's most important decisions are ahead of him. Contrary to the negative spinners Phil turned the Tyson trade into some young prospects. Larkin, Early, Thanasis, Labeyrie and Acy. Then he added Galloway and Wear as prospects. We have our Pick and cap space. Phil has 4 Trade Exceptions. Only 4 guaranteed contracts for next year and we still haven't reached the Trade Deadline. We don't know how Phil will use his cap space in Free Agency but it's good to have money to spend.
The Knicks still have their 1st rd picks in 2015, 2017, 2018, 2019 etc. If Phil can manage to replenish the 2016 and get some 2nd rounders it will set things straight again. This team's future is unwritten but that doesn't mean it's doomed to failure.
so you-- our resident visionary-- believe that drafting-- and developing-- players over the course of carmelo anthony's remaining career here will yield some sort of consistent contender, or, form a team that has a puncher's chance of getting to, say... the conference finals in the next several seasons? that's putting a pretty big burden on carmelo anthony, to say the least: remaining healthy, changing his game to conform to the triangle, providing leadership, being the cornerstone....
anyway, relevance.... second round competitiveness (we haven't seen that yet), conference finals appearances (same), finals appearances (what are those?)... is that what you see being "written?"
success and sustainability depend on culture change. i have yet to see culture change. in fact, getting rid of chandler-- admittedly a non-triangle player-- is not culture change, it smacks of pandering to dolan and melo.
a program, a system, requires players to execute it. even by getting rid of all the players who do not belong you are still left with one player who has NEVER conformed to any sort of structured offense. this "other level" that we were promised has not materialized. whose fault is that? let me guess: everyone else's but melo's, right?
how can you say there has been change, and newness, when the team has tethered its fortunes to one player who has, again, NEVER shown an aptitude to adapt to others? you talk about constant whining-- well melo is the constant on this team and i have yet to see anything consistently inspiring about his game over his entire career.
do you seem him developing or taking his game to the next level? a thirty-year old player who turns thirty-one in may and who is clearly breaking down even as he becomes a self-proclaimed digital athlete?
a yes-no question requires "yes" or "no" as an answer. will you be able to muster the intellectual honesty and goodwill to simply answer "yes" or "no"???
surprise me.
do you seem him developing or taking his game to the next level? a thirty-year old player who turns thirty-one in may and who is clearly breaking down even as he becomes a self-proclaimed digital athlete?
Sounds like you already wrote the answer you anticipate. But yeah I think he will evolve. He will have a new set of teammates and hopefully a huge talent upgrade. He will be playing in an offense that if executed should make it easier for him to be effective. Fisher has been a disappointment but you have to hope he resets and gets his guys playing better d. You see Melo, I see team. It isn't just about Melo. Right now it is mainly about Phil and what he can do to improve the overall talent level on the roster. Once that is done hopefully Fisher doesn't look like a disaster.
so the answer is "yes," sort of. thanks, i guess....
so melo "evolving" *sort of* depends on having a new set of teammates and a talent upgrade? he can't evolve on his own, and become the sort of player who sets the example for others to follow? he will only evolve if certain other factors emerge?
furthermore, does "evolve" mean the same thing as "taking his game to another level"?
dk7th wrote:The answer is yes. If the team is winning and is successful and his numbers are down would that mean he wasn't working hard enough? Just wondering what you need to see to move on so you can post about the other 14 members of the team and look at them like a unit.CrushAlot wrote:dk7th wrote:CrushAlot wrote:dk7th wrote:Same old Melo stuff with you. Again, it would be nice if you could come up with something else. New management team, new coaching staff, a roster that will be almost entirely turned over, an attempt to play a system, a d league team that is being utilized, bringing in undrafted rookies etc, a high lottery pick. Not a lot of change?CrushAlot wrote:dk7th wrote:Isn't the goal to become successful while creating something sustainable? Grunwald put together a roster that won 54 games but age and health issues derailed that. It seems like what Phil is trying to do is create something that will last more than a year or two. The Knicks have three rookies, two second year players, their first round pick and will have cap space and roster spots. It hasn't been pretty but if you asked me to make a list of guys that I thought needed to be moved out after last year Iman, JR, and Tyson would be at the top.nixluva wrote:So tiring reading the Negative Nancy Bitch Brigade spin everything towards Doom and Gloom.Phil did some good and made some mistakes. Phil's most important decisions are ahead of him. Contrary to the negative spinners Phil turned the Tyson trade into some young prospects. Larkin, Early, Thanasis, Labeyrie and Acy. Then he added Galloway and Wear as prospects. We have our Pick and cap space. Phil has 4 Trade Exceptions. Only 4 guaranteed contracts for next year and we still haven't reached the Trade Deadline. We don't know how Phil will use his cap space in Free Agency but it's good to have money to spend.
The Knicks still have their 1st rd picks in 2015, 2017, 2018, 2019 etc. If Phil can manage to replenish the 2016 and get some 2nd rounders it will set things straight again. This team's future is unwritten but that doesn't mean it's doomed to failure.
so you-- our resident visionary-- believe that drafting-- and developing-- players over the course of carmelo anthony's remaining career here will yield some sort of consistent contender, or, form a team that has a puncher's chance of getting to, say... the conference finals in the next several seasons? that's putting a pretty big burden on carmelo anthony, to say the least: remaining healthy, changing his game to conform to the triangle, providing leadership, being the cornerstone....
anyway, relevance.... second round competitiveness (we haven't seen that yet), conference finals appearances (same), finals appearances (what are those?)... is that what you see being "written?"
success and sustainability depend on culture change. i have yet to see culture change. in fact, getting rid of chandler-- admittedly a non-triangle player-- is not culture change, it smacks of pandering to dolan and melo.
a program, a system, requires players to execute it. even by getting rid of all the players who do not belong you are still left with one player who has NEVER conformed to any sort of structured offense. this "other level" that we were promised has not materialized. whose fault is that? let me guess: everyone else's but melo's, right?
how can you say there has been change, and newness, when the team has tethered its fortunes to one player who has, again, NEVER shown an aptitude to adapt to others? you talk about constant whining-- well melo is the constant on this team and i have yet to see anything consistently inspiring about his game over his entire career.
do you seem him developing or taking his game to the next level? a thirty-year old player who turns thirty-one in may and who is clearly breaking down even as he becomes a self-proclaimed digital athlete?
a yes-no question requires "yes" or "no" as an answer. will you be able to muster the intellectual honesty and goodwill to simply answer "yes" or "no"???
surprise me.
do you seem him developing or taking his game to the next level? a thirty-year old player who turns thirty-one in may and who is clearly breaking down even as he becomes a self-proclaimed digital athlete?
Sounds like you already wrote the answer you anticipate. But yeah I think he will evolve. He will have a new set of teammates and hopefully a huge talent upgrade. He will be playing in an offense that if executed should make it easier for him to be effective. Fisher has been a disappointment but you have to hope he resets and gets his guys playing better d. You see Melo, I see team. It isn't just about Melo. Right now it is mainly about Phil and what he can do to improve the overall talent level on the roster. Once that is done hopefully Fisher doesn't look like a disaster.so the answer is "yes," sort of. thanks, i guess....
so melo "evolving" *sort of* depends on having a new set of teammates and a talent upgrade? he can't evolve on his own, and become the sort of player who sets the example for others to follow? he will only evolve if certain other factors emerge?
furthermore, does "evolve" mean the same thing as "taking his game to another level"?
The goal is to build an even better team than that WCF's Denver team. Build a team with a future.
nixluva wrote:Melo will have to get his knee squared away and he will have to continue to improve his execution in the system as will all of the players on the team going forward. Melo isn't the problem. It's what the rest of the team is capable of that matters most. Just like when Melo had Billups in Denver and a good supporting cast that team was able to reach the WCF's.The goal is to build an even better team than that WCF's Denver team. Build a team with a future.
I predict that by the end of next season you will be hating on Melo like you did with MDA.
CrushAlot wrote:dk7th wrote:The answer is yes. If the team is winning and is successful and his numbers are down would that mean he wasn't working hard enough? Just wondering what you need to see to move on so you can post about the other 14 members of the team and look at them like a unit.CrushAlot wrote:dk7th wrote:CrushAlot wrote:dk7th wrote:Same old Melo stuff with you. Again, it would be nice if you could come up with something else. New management team, new coaching staff, a roster that will be almost entirely turned over, an attempt to play a system, a d league team that is being utilized, bringing in undrafted rookies etc, a high lottery pick. Not a lot of change?CrushAlot wrote:dk7th wrote:Isn't the goal to become successful while creating something sustainable? Grunwald put together a roster that won 54 games but age and health issues derailed that. It seems like what Phil is trying to do is create something that will last more than a year or two. The Knicks have three rookies, two second year players, their first round pick and will have cap space and roster spots. It hasn't been pretty but if you asked me to make a list of guys that I thought needed to be moved out after last year Iman, JR, and Tyson would be at the top.nixluva wrote:So tiring reading the Negative Nancy Bitch Brigade spin everything towards Doom and Gloom.Phil did some good and made some mistakes. Phil's most important decisions are ahead of him. Contrary to the negative spinners Phil turned the Tyson trade into some young prospects. Larkin, Early, Thanasis, Labeyrie and Acy. Then he added Galloway and Wear as prospects. We have our Pick and cap space. Phil has 4 Trade Exceptions. Only 4 guaranteed contracts for next year and we still haven't reached the Trade Deadline. We don't know how Phil will use his cap space in Free Agency but it's good to have money to spend.
The Knicks still have their 1st rd picks in 2015, 2017, 2018, 2019 etc. If Phil can manage to replenish the 2016 and get some 2nd rounders it will set things straight again. This team's future is unwritten but that doesn't mean it's doomed to failure.
so you-- our resident visionary-- believe that drafting-- and developing-- players over the course of carmelo anthony's remaining career here will yield some sort of consistent contender, or, form a team that has a puncher's chance of getting to, say... the conference finals in the next several seasons? that's putting a pretty big burden on carmelo anthony, to say the least: remaining healthy, changing his game to conform to the triangle, providing leadership, being the cornerstone....
anyway, relevance.... second round competitiveness (we haven't seen that yet), conference finals appearances (same), finals appearances (what are those?)... is that what you see being "written?"
success and sustainability depend on culture change. i have yet to see culture change. in fact, getting rid of chandler-- admittedly a non-triangle player-- is not culture change, it smacks of pandering to dolan and melo.
a program, a system, requires players to execute it. even by getting rid of all the players who do not belong you are still left with one player who has NEVER conformed to any sort of structured offense. this "other level" that we were promised has not materialized. whose fault is that? let me guess: everyone else's but melo's, right?
how can you say there has been change, and newness, when the team has tethered its fortunes to one player who has, again, NEVER shown an aptitude to adapt to others? you talk about constant whining-- well melo is the constant on this team and i have yet to see anything consistently inspiring about his game over his entire career.
do you seem him developing or taking his game to the next level? a thirty-year old player who turns thirty-one in may and who is clearly breaking down even as he becomes a self-proclaimed digital athlete?
a yes-no question requires "yes" or "no" as an answer. will you be able to muster the intellectual honesty and goodwill to simply answer "yes" or "no"???
surprise me.
do you seem him developing or taking his game to the next level? a thirty-year old player who turns thirty-one in may and who is clearly breaking down even as he becomes a self-proclaimed digital athlete?
Sounds like you already wrote the answer you anticipate. But yeah I think he will evolve. He will have a new set of teammates and hopefully a huge talent upgrade. He will be playing in an offense that if executed should make it easier for him to be effective. Fisher has been a disappointment but you have to hope he resets and gets his guys playing better d. You see Melo, I see team. It isn't just about Melo. Right now it is mainly about Phil and what he can do to improve the overall talent level on the roster. Once that is done hopefully Fisher doesn't look like a disaster.so the answer is "yes," sort of. thanks, i guess....
so melo "evolving" *sort of* depends on having a new set of teammates and a talent upgrade? he can't evolve on his own, and become the sort of player who sets the example for others to follow? he will only evolve if certain other factors emerge?
furthermore, does "evolve" mean the same thing as "taking his game to another level"?
"IF?"
in the triangle what of melo's numbers should be down in order for him to contribute to winning? what numbers should be up? educate me.
dk7th wrote:CrushAlot wrote:dk7th wrote:The answer is yes. If the team is winning and is successful and his numbers are down would that mean he wasn't working hard enough? Just wondering what you need to see to move on so you can post about the other 14 members of the team and look at them like a unit.CrushAlot wrote:dk7th wrote:CrushAlot wrote:dk7th wrote:Same old Melo stuff with you. Again, it would be nice if you could come up with something else. New management team, new coaching staff, a roster that will be almost entirely turned over, an attempt to play a system, a d league team that is being utilized, bringing in undrafted rookies etc, a high lottery pick. Not a lot of change?CrushAlot wrote:dk7th wrote:Isn't the goal to become successful while creating something sustainable? Grunwald put together a roster that won 54 games but age and health issues derailed that. It seems like what Phil is trying to do is create something that will last more than a year or two. The Knicks have three rookies, two second year players, their first round pick and will have cap space and roster spots. It hasn't been pretty but if you asked me to make a list of guys that I thought needed to be moved out after last year Iman, JR, and Tyson would be at the top.nixluva wrote:So tiring reading the Negative Nancy Bitch Brigade spin everything towards Doom and Gloom.Phil did some good and made some mistakes. Phil's most important decisions are ahead of him. Contrary to the negative spinners Phil turned the Tyson trade into some young prospects. Larkin, Early, Thanasis, Labeyrie and Acy. Then he added Galloway and Wear as prospects. We have our Pick and cap space. Phil has 4 Trade Exceptions. Only 4 guaranteed contracts for next year and we still haven't reached the Trade Deadline. We don't know how Phil will use his cap space in Free Agency but it's good to have money to spend.
The Knicks still have their 1st rd picks in 2015, 2017, 2018, 2019 etc. If Phil can manage to replenish the 2016 and get some 2nd rounders it will set things straight again. This team's future is unwritten but that doesn't mean it's doomed to failure.
so you-- our resident visionary-- believe that drafting-- and developing-- players over the course of carmelo anthony's remaining career here will yield some sort of consistent contender, or, form a team that has a puncher's chance of getting to, say... the conference finals in the next several seasons? that's putting a pretty big burden on carmelo anthony, to say the least: remaining healthy, changing his game to conform to the triangle, providing leadership, being the cornerstone....
anyway, relevance.... second round competitiveness (we haven't seen that yet), conference finals appearances (same), finals appearances (what are those?)... is that what you see being "written?"
success and sustainability depend on culture change. i have yet to see culture change. in fact, getting rid of chandler-- admittedly a non-triangle player-- is not culture change, it smacks of pandering to dolan and melo.
a program, a system, requires players to execute it. even by getting rid of all the players who do not belong you are still left with one player who has NEVER conformed to any sort of structured offense. this "other level" that we were promised has not materialized. whose fault is that? let me guess: everyone else's but melo's, right?
how can you say there has been change, and newness, when the team has tethered its fortunes to one player who has, again, NEVER shown an aptitude to adapt to others? you talk about constant whining-- well melo is the constant on this team and i have yet to see anything consistently inspiring about his game over his entire career.
do you seem him developing or taking his game to the next level? a thirty-year old player who turns thirty-one in may and who is clearly breaking down even as he becomes a self-proclaimed digital athlete?
a yes-no question requires "yes" or "no" as an answer. will you be able to muster the intellectual honesty and goodwill to simply answer "yes" or "no"???
surprise me.
do you seem him developing or taking his game to the next level? a thirty-year old player who turns thirty-one in may and who is clearly breaking down even as he becomes a self-proclaimed digital athlete?
Sounds like you already wrote the answer you anticipate. But yeah I think he will evolve. He will have a new set of teammates and hopefully a huge talent upgrade. He will be playing in an offense that if executed should make it easier for him to be effective. Fisher has been a disappointment but you have to hope he resets and gets his guys playing better d. You see Melo, I see team. It isn't just about Melo. Right now it is mainly about Phil and what he can do to improve the overall talent level on the roster. Once that is done hopefully Fisher doesn't look like a disaster.so the answer is "yes," sort of. thanks, i guess....
so melo "evolving" *sort of* depends on having a new set of teammates and a talent upgrade? he can't evolve on his own, and become the sort of player who sets the example for others to follow? he will only evolve if certain other factors emerge?
furthermore, does "evolve" mean the same thing as "taking his game to another level"?
"IF?"
in the triangle what of melo's numbers should be down in order for him to contribute to winning? what numbers should be up? educate me.
shots (especially his contested mid range ones) - down
passes - up
dk7th wrote:I am fine with whatever his numbers are if the team is winning. He is a non issue for me. Just get tired of the endless hate directed at him. Apparently there is nothing the guy could do for you to look at the team as a unit as you chose not to respond to that. Again, the Melo hate is tired and boring.CrushAlot wrote:dk7th wrote:The answer is yes. If the team is winning and is successful and his numbers are down would that mean he wasn't working hard enough? Just wondering what you need to see to move on so you can post about the other 14 members of the team and look at them like a unit.CrushAlot wrote:dk7th wrote:CrushAlot wrote:dk7th wrote:Same old Melo stuff with you. Again, it would be nice if you could come up with something else. New management team, new coaching staff, a roster that will be almost entirely turned over, an attempt to play a system, a d league team that is being utilized, bringing in undrafted rookies etc, a high lottery pick. Not a lot of change?CrushAlot wrote:dk7th wrote:Isn't the goal to become successful while creating something sustainable? Grunwald put together a roster that won 54 games but age and health issues derailed that. It seems like what Phil is trying to do is create something that will last more than a year or two. The Knicks have three rookies, two second year players, their first round pick and will have cap space and roster spots. It hasn't been pretty but if you asked me to make a list of guys that I thought needed to be moved out after last year Iman, JR, and Tyson would be at the top.nixluva wrote:So tiring reading the Negative Nancy Bitch Brigade spin everything towards Doom and Gloom.Phil did some good and made some mistakes. Phil's most important decisions are ahead of him. Contrary to the negative spinners Phil turned the Tyson trade into some young prospects. Larkin, Early, Thanasis, Labeyrie and Acy. Then he added Galloway and Wear as prospects. We have our Pick and cap space. Phil has 4 Trade Exceptions. Only 4 guaranteed contracts for next year and we still haven't reached the Trade Deadline. We don't know how Phil will use his cap space in Free Agency but it's good to have money to spend.
The Knicks still have their 1st rd picks in 2015, 2017, 2018, 2019 etc. If Phil can manage to replenish the 2016 and get some 2nd rounders it will set things straight again. This team's future is unwritten but that doesn't mean it's doomed to failure.
so you-- our resident visionary-- believe that drafting-- and developing-- players over the course of carmelo anthony's remaining career here will yield some sort of consistent contender, or, form a team that has a puncher's chance of getting to, say... the conference finals in the next several seasons? that's putting a pretty big burden on carmelo anthony, to say the least: remaining healthy, changing his game to conform to the triangle, providing leadership, being the cornerstone....
anyway, relevance.... second round competitiveness (we haven't seen that yet), conference finals appearances (same), finals appearances (what are those?)... is that what you see being "written?"
success and sustainability depend on culture change. i have yet to see culture change. in fact, getting rid of chandler-- admittedly a non-triangle player-- is not culture change, it smacks of pandering to dolan and melo.
a program, a system, requires players to execute it. even by getting rid of all the players who do not belong you are still left with one player who has NEVER conformed to any sort of structured offense. this "other level" that we were promised has not materialized. whose fault is that? let me guess: everyone else's but melo's, right?
how can you say there has been change, and newness, when the team has tethered its fortunes to one player who has, again, NEVER shown an aptitude to adapt to others? you talk about constant whining-- well melo is the constant on this team and i have yet to see anything consistently inspiring about his game over his entire career.
do you seem him developing or taking his game to the next level? a thirty-year old player who turns thirty-one in may and who is clearly breaking down even as he becomes a self-proclaimed digital athlete?
a yes-no question requires "yes" or "no" as an answer. will you be able to muster the intellectual honesty and goodwill to simply answer "yes" or "no"???
surprise me.
do you seem him developing or taking his game to the next level? a thirty-year old player who turns thirty-one in may and who is clearly breaking down even as he becomes a self-proclaimed digital athlete?
Sounds like you already wrote the answer you anticipate. But yeah I think he will evolve. He will have a new set of teammates and hopefully a huge talent upgrade. He will be playing in an offense that if executed should make it easier for him to be effective. Fisher has been a disappointment but you have to hope he resets and gets his guys playing better d. You see Melo, I see team. It isn't just about Melo. Right now it is mainly about Phil and what he can do to improve the overall talent level on the roster. Once that is done hopefully Fisher doesn't look like a disaster.so the answer is "yes," sort of. thanks, i guess....
so melo "evolving" *sort of* depends on having a new set of teammates and a talent upgrade? he can't evolve on his own, and become the sort of player who sets the example for others to follow? he will only evolve if certain other factors emerge?
furthermore, does "evolve" mean the same thing as "taking his game to another level"?
"IF?"
in the triangle what of melo's numbers should be down in order for him to contribute to winning? what numbers should be up? educate me.
CrushAlot wrote:dk7th wrote:I am fine with whatever his numbers are if the team is winning. He is a non issue for me. Just get tired of the endless hate directed at him. Apparently there is nothing the guy could do for you to look at the team as a unit as you chose not to respond to that. Again, the Melo hate is tired and boring.CrushAlot wrote:dk7th wrote:The answer is yes. If the team is winning and is successful and his numbers are down would that mean he wasn't working hard enough? Just wondering what you need to see to move on so you can post about the other 14 members of the team and look at them like a unit.CrushAlot wrote:dk7th wrote:CrushAlot wrote:dk7th wrote:Same old Melo stuff with you. Again, it would be nice if you could come up with something else. New management team, new coaching staff, a roster that will be almost entirely turned over, an attempt to play a system, a d league team that is being utilized, bringing in undrafted rookies etc, a high lottery pick. Not a lot of change?CrushAlot wrote:dk7th wrote:Isn't the goal to become successful while creating something sustainable? Grunwald put together a roster that won 54 games but age and health issues derailed that. It seems like what Phil is trying to do is create something that will last more than a year or two. The Knicks have three rookies, two second year players, their first round pick and will have cap space and roster spots. It hasn't been pretty but if you asked me to make a list of guys that I thought needed to be moved out after last year Iman, JR, and Tyson would be at the top.nixluva wrote:So tiring reading the Negative Nancy Bitch Brigade spin everything towards Doom and Gloom.Phil did some good and made some mistakes. Phil's most important decisions are ahead of him. Contrary to the negative spinners Phil turned the Tyson trade into some young prospects. Larkin, Early, Thanasis, Labeyrie and Acy. Then he added Galloway and Wear as prospects. We have our Pick and cap space. Phil has 4 Trade Exceptions. Only 4 guaranteed contracts for next year and we still haven't reached the Trade Deadline. We don't know how Phil will use his cap space in Free Agency but it's good to have money to spend.
The Knicks still have their 1st rd picks in 2015, 2017, 2018, 2019 etc. If Phil can manage to replenish the 2016 and get some 2nd rounders it will set things straight again. This team's future is unwritten but that doesn't mean it's doomed to failure.
so you-- our resident visionary-- believe that drafting-- and developing-- players over the course of carmelo anthony's remaining career here will yield some sort of consistent contender, or, form a team that has a puncher's chance of getting to, say... the conference finals in the next several seasons? that's putting a pretty big burden on carmelo anthony, to say the least: remaining healthy, changing his game to conform to the triangle, providing leadership, being the cornerstone....
anyway, relevance.... second round competitiveness (we haven't seen that yet), conference finals appearances (same), finals appearances (what are those?)... is that what you see being "written?"
success and sustainability depend on culture change. i have yet to see culture change. in fact, getting rid of chandler-- admittedly a non-triangle player-- is not culture change, it smacks of pandering to dolan and melo.
a program, a system, requires players to execute it. even by getting rid of all the players who do not belong you are still left with one player who has NEVER conformed to any sort of structured offense. this "other level" that we were promised has not materialized. whose fault is that? let me guess: everyone else's but melo's, right?
how can you say there has been change, and newness, when the team has tethered its fortunes to one player who has, again, NEVER shown an aptitude to adapt to others? you talk about constant whining-- well melo is the constant on this team and i have yet to see anything consistently inspiring about his game over his entire career.
do you seem him developing or taking his game to the next level? a thirty-year old player who turns thirty-one in may and who is clearly breaking down even as he becomes a self-proclaimed digital athlete?
a yes-no question requires "yes" or "no" as an answer. will you be able to muster the intellectual honesty and goodwill to simply answer "yes" or "no"???
surprise me.
do you seem him developing or taking his game to the next level? a thirty-year old player who turns thirty-one in may and who is clearly breaking down even as he becomes a self-proclaimed digital athlete?
Sounds like you already wrote the answer you anticipate. But yeah I think he will evolve. He will have a new set of teammates and hopefully a huge talent upgrade. He will be playing in an offense that if executed should make it easier for him to be effective. Fisher has been a disappointment but you have to hope he resets and gets his guys playing better d. You see Melo, I see team. It isn't just about Melo. Right now it is mainly about Phil and what he can do to improve the overall talent level on the roster. Once that is done hopefully Fisher doesn't look like a disaster.so the answer is "yes," sort of. thanks, i guess....
so melo "evolving" *sort of* depends on having a new set of teammates and a talent upgrade? he can't evolve on his own, and become the sort of player who sets the example for others to follow? he will only evolve if certain other factors emerge?
furthermore, does "evolve" mean the same thing as "taking his game to another level"?
"IF?"
in the triangle what of melo's numbers should be down in order for him to contribute to winning? what numbers should be up? educate me.
he's making 24 million a year and that figure will keep going up. it's hard for many fans to look past that. his salary is taking up the lion's share of the team's salary and he hasn't earned that money, and i do not foresee him ever living up to that money.
regardless of my personal antipathy to this clown what i have just stated above isn't "melo hate." i am simply stating facts and figures.
you are tired of being reminded of facts and figures and that's... weird
nixluva wrote:I want to see Phil increase the passing talent on this team. Obviously overall talent needs to improve but we need more 2 way players who are ball movers. Watching Hawks games here in Georgia I see a team full of guys that can all pass well and understand team ball. So Phil has to prioritize real BB Skills and IQ. I would guess that will be at the top of his list after watching this team's lack of BB Skills and IQ.
hard for phil to set that tone when his super star refuses to pass.
you think that Phil is gonna change Melo?
I thought melo would pass much more this year and play less selfish and I was very very wrong.
dk7th wrote:CrushAlot wrote:dk7th wrote:Isn't the goal to become successful while creating something sustainable? Grunwald put together a roster that won 54 games but age and health issues derailed that. It seems like what Phil is trying to do is create something that will last more than a year or two. The Knicks have three rookies, two second year players, their first round pick and will have cap space and roster spots. It hasn't been pretty but if you asked me to make a list of guys that I thought needed to be moved out after last year Iman, JR, and Tyson would be at the top.nixluva wrote:So tiring reading the Negative Nancy Bitch Brigade spin everything towards Doom and Gloom.Phil did some good and made some mistakes. Phil's most important decisions are ahead of him. Contrary to the negative spinners Phil turned the Tyson trade into some young prospects. Larkin, Early, Thanasis, Labeyrie and Acy. Then he added Galloway and Wear as prospects. We have our Pick and cap space. Phil has 4 Trade Exceptions. Only 4 guaranteed contracts for next year and we still haven't reached the Trade Deadline. We don't know how Phil will use his cap space in Free Agency but it's good to have money to spend.
The Knicks still have their 1st rd picks in 2015, 2017, 2018, 2019 etc. If Phil can manage to replenish the 2016 and get some 2nd rounders it will set things straight again. This team's future is unwritten but that doesn't mean it's doomed to failure.
so you-- our resident visionary-- believe that drafting-- and developing-- players over the course of carmelo anthony's remaining career here will yield some sort of consistent contender, or, form a team that has a puncher's chance of getting to, say... the conference finals in the next several seasons? that's putting a pretty big burden on carmelo anthony, to say the least: remaining healthy, changing his game to conform to the triangle, providing leadership, being the cornerstone....
anyway, relevance.... second round competitiveness (we haven't seen that yet), conference finals appearances (same), finals appearances (what are those?)... is that what you see being "written?"
success and sustainability depend on culture change. i have yet to see culture change. in fact, getting rid of chandler-- admittedly a non-triangle player-- is not culture change, it smacks of pandering to dolan and melo.
a program, a system, requires players to execute it. even by getting rid of all the players who do not belong you are still left with one player who has NEVER conformed to any sort of structured offense. this "other level" that we were promised has not materialized. whose fault is that? let me guess: everyone else's but melo's, right?
Grunwald put together the aged team
Age and Health issues were always going to be the real winners there
Would have got bounced 1st round had Rondo been healthy
Let's look at the Dallas trade again as apparently nixluva was in a coma
- Sam Dalembert didn't make it to 40gms before he was waived- Larkin's option at $1.7mil wasn't picked up
- Calderon missed 1/3 of season due to a calf strain and is currently being shopped heavily
- Thanasis is languishing in the D-League and his brother is putting Phil on stupid publicly about it
- Early got injured Early, gained back his health and got DNPd behind Lou and Lance
- Wayne Ellington traded to Kings along with Jeremy Tyler[a youngan you probably raved about] and a Top 37 protected 2015 2nd round pick
for Travis Outlaw and Quicny Acy - Travis Outlaw traded to Philly along with 2 2nd round picks so Wear could make the team
- Travis Wear gets unpredictable, spare, accidental, minutes all season
- Phil Hasn't used the exception from the trade to get pick[s] yet
This trade was an absolute monumental abomination disaster of epic proportions
CrushAlot wrote:Keeping Thanasis in the d l is the right move. Not sure why you want Phil to change his status from essentially euro stash to a guy that counts on the cap and has to hold a roster spot once he is signed. I think the better move is to keep giving 10 days to young d l guys to see if you can find a talent. Thanasis is also much easier to move if Phil makes a trade.
I agree. No reason to bring him down to hell.
CrushAlot wrote:Keeping Thanasis in the d l is the right move. Not sure why you want Phil to change his status from essentially euro stash to a guy that counts on the cap and has to hold a roster spot once he is signed. I think the better move is to keep giving 10 days to young d l guys to see if you can find a talent. Thanasis is also much easier to move if Phil makes a trade.
Crush if you keep using this lame excuse I swear
It's 1 roster spot at a less than $500ki hit, get out of dodge with this excuse
I want him playing against real NBA players
I want him here because he's a potential culture changer on the court defensively
nixluva wrote:I think the better the talent around Melo the more willing and ready a passer he'll be. We'll have a shot at some proven talent this summer. Imagine adding a Dragic and Matthews to the starting lineup? It's all on Phil to bring in the talent. It doesn't have to only be the most expensive Free Agents.
what kind of mindset does one have to have to say "i'm gonna get mine until i respect my teammates?" does that attitude translate to "winner?" the dude doesn't even play defense yet he needs to have others earn his respect before he becomes a willing passer? i mean how many points does he himself give up on the defensive end? the guy is much closer to a zero-sum player and yet he needs to have others earn his respect? there's two ends to the court-- is he even an average defender and if you agree he is a sub-par defender then why does he manifest this ugly and selfish primadonna attitude?
F500ONE wrote:dk7th wrote:CrushAlot wrote:dk7th wrote:Isn't the goal to become successful while creating something sustainable? Grunwald put together a roster that won 54 games but age and health issues derailed that. It seems like what Phil is trying to do is create something that will last more than a year or two. The Knicks have three rookies, two second year players, their first round pick and will have cap space and roster spots. It hasn't been pretty but if you asked me to make a list of guys that I thought needed to be moved out after last year Iman, JR, and Tyson would be at the top.nixluva wrote:So tiring reading the Negative Nancy Bitch Brigade spin everything towards Doom and Gloom.Phil did some good and made some mistakes. Phil's most important decisions are ahead of him. Contrary to the negative spinners Phil turned the Tyson trade into some young prospects. Larkin, Early, Thanasis, Labeyrie and Acy. Then he added Galloway and Wear as prospects. We have our Pick and cap space. Phil has 4 Trade Exceptions. Only 4 guaranteed contracts for next year and we still haven't reached the Trade Deadline. We don't know how Phil will use his cap space in Free Agency but it's good to have money to spend.
The Knicks still have their 1st rd picks in 2015, 2017, 2018, 2019 etc. If Phil can manage to replenish the 2016 and get some 2nd rounders it will set things straight again. This team's future is unwritten but that doesn't mean it's doomed to failure.
so you-- our resident visionary-- believe that drafting-- and developing-- players over the course of carmelo anthony's remaining career here will yield some sort of consistent contender, or, form a team that has a puncher's chance of getting to, say... the conference finals in the next several seasons? that's putting a pretty big burden on carmelo anthony, to say the least: remaining healthy, changing his game to conform to the triangle, providing leadership, being the cornerstone....
anyway, relevance.... second round competitiveness (we haven't seen that yet), conference finals appearances (same), finals appearances (what are those?)... is that what you see being "written?"
success and sustainability depend on culture change. i have yet to see culture change. in fact, getting rid of chandler-- admittedly a non-triangle player-- is not culture change, it smacks of pandering to dolan and melo.
a program, a system, requires players to execute it. even by getting rid of all the players who do not belong you are still left with one player who has NEVER conformed to any sort of structured offense. this "other level" that we were promised has not materialized. whose fault is that? let me guess: everyone else's but melo's, right?
Grunwald put together the aged team
Age and Health issues were always going to be the real winners there
Would have got bounced 1st round had Rondo been healthy
Let's look at the Dallas trade again as apparently nixluva was in a coma
- Sam Dalembert didn't make it to 40gms before he was waived- Larkin's option at $1.7mil wasn't picked up
- Calderon missed 1/3 of season due to a calf strain and is currently being shopped heavily
- Thanasis is languishing in the D-League and his brother is putting Phil on stupid publicly about it
- Early got injured Early, gained back his health and got DNPd behind Lou and Lance
- Wayne Ellington traded to Kings along with Jeremy Tyler[a youngan you probably raved about] and a Top 37 protected 2015 2nd round pick
for Travis Outlaw and Quicny Acy - Travis Outlaw traded to Philly along with 2 2nd round picks so Wear could make the team
- Travis Wear gets unpredictable, spare, accidental, minutes all season
- Phil Hasn't used the exception from the trade to get pick[s] yet
This trade was an absolute monumental abomination disaster of epic proportions
I agree with just about everything except that part on Thanasis. The young man isnt ready imo, and I wouldnt risk poisoning him with this awful squad of players.
He can easily be our 15th man on the bench next season IF Phil can put together a competent team. I certainly have my doubts on that.