Knicks · Philly vs. New York: TANK BOWL I (page 8)

TPercy wrote:dumb foul by galloway, so unneccesary

Dumb hustle.

KNICKSBIGCATS wrote:Somebody just dumped a boatload on under 189.5

98-91 wins by .5 pt wow

yellowboy90 wrote:Is Galloway making Calderon better?

Final  
PHI 91 NYK 98

TPercy wrote:I hope Smith enjoys this decent game he's had cuz he is about to get wrecked by Vucevic when we play Orlando

Another guy we wanted, if I remember correctly, but missed by one spot in the draft.

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I wonder if he'll remember this quote when he

Shuts all systems down after All-Star break

F500ONE wrote:

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I wonder if he'll remember this quote when he

Shuts all systems down after All-Star break

CrushAlot wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

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I wonder if he'll remember this quote when he

Shuts all systems down after All-Star break

Wally pretty much said the same thing and also that he believes no players try to tank.

I would imagine it's hard for any NBA player to really care about some possible lottery pick. Why should most of them care about tanking? It won't improve their chances of remaining with the team. In Melo's case i'm sure he isn't really thinking about some kid coming to the rescue. Melo is probably hoping for some vets to be added so he can win games next year. The Draft Lottery is of FAR more importance to the fans who will still be following the team long after Melo is gone.

dk7th wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

dk7th wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

dk7th wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

dk7th wrote:

mreinman wrote:

dk7th wrote:

F500ONE wrote:Jason Smith another WIDE OPEN 16ft, he made it

i know, with the midrange. power forwards 6'10" with the midrange. could be a trend. still, smith is so soft.

so you're for that shot too? mid range jumpers?

you just need to agree with what he says even if it makes zero sense?

very strange.

no i agree with you... that in a pure math sense 33% from 3 is as good as 50% from 2.

however, you have to look what the opponent will do with 66% of shots missed versus 50% of shots missed. so far as i know we don't have a metric for that.

so in the meantime in a practical/intuitive sense i think that the cutoff point for a successful 3 point regimen is a few tenths shy of 40%.anything lower and i think diminishing returns really kick in.

still strange?

I think what he wanted you to say was

Smith should have passed up shooting the WIDE OPEN shot

Because of where his location was at on the floor

This is the pure definition of intelligence

But to add to what you say there's also the ROI on 2s vs 3s

Paid in the form of getting teams in foul trouble and in the penalty

Which can force rotations sooner than desired and create mismatches in favor of the offense

More FTA are generated from taking shots inside the arc

I better slow down don't want to make you become dumberer here

no what you say makes sense as you explained it. i see a meta development in that (1) offenses stressed the 3-ball in order to stretch the defense and create driving lanes; (2) defenses have been geared towards closing out on threes so much that midrange shots are more available; (3) power forwards that are not stretch 4s are being told to work on that midrange.

it isn't a stretch to say that coaching staffs study film and look for any opening to exploit.

adapt or die. humphries did it the other night against the nets, griffin did it on national tv last week, dudes like smith or doing it tonight.

Yeah me and Uptown discussed this the other day with him

I'm not totally opposed to mran's philosophy in maximizing efficiency

Please stop referencing taking open shots[inside arc] as something stupid

Please stop saying uncontested midrange shots should not be a part of a team's offense

If a defender is not in your face and the defense is giving you

An open area on the court to do damage if by happen stance inside the arc then you take it

well surely he is not saying to not take an open shot? a contested 2 i understand of course, but a wide open 2?

Yes in this very game thread he most certainly all but said it

And-Or has stated it in past discussion, go back a page or two and you'll see

uh-huh okay i saw. i prefer red holzman's edict: "find the open man"

of course if the ball is being pounded there'll never be one

Red Holzman's coached with an arc?

Why do you and tk feel like you need to be smarter than what every coach and every system is now preaching?

Every advanced offense spreads you out with 3 or 4 shooters. If you run at them, they pump fake, drive and either get a shot in the lane, get fouled, or kick it out for a 3 point shot.

Of course there are going to be a few times where options run out and as a very last option, a long 2 is attempted. Even Houston shoots 6% of their shots between 16 and 23. Those shots are very bad options and it should only be taken if there is no other choice.

Why would someone set up there? They shouldn't and really don't anymore. If they run you off the arc, then you drive it all the way to the hole. You don't fake and stop and pop bet 16 and 23. Its stupid.

Again, this is not my own ideas obviously, its everybody elses. Nobody would argue with this unless you just want to argue. Provide one article that says otherwise. There is a gazilion of them that say what I have said.

And, do you get fouled more on 20 footers than 23 footers? And, ever think that if you spread the floor you open the lane?

Geeez, its like you guys are intentionally stuck in the early 70's.

please! supply just one article that supports this. Articles? Shot Charts? Anything ... I am willing to learn. Just don't just state things that are unsupported and just your personal opinions.

Hit the open man? What the hell is he doing at 20 feet?

And remember, the most contested shot in basketball is the long 2.

Want more shots at the rim? All for it. Those are only available if your spread the floor.

Of course there are going to be some in a game but there better be a good reason for it.

Draymond shooting 3's as I type - WTF!? LOL

If a player can either master the 3 and then master the long 2 at a really high rate, I am all for it. If he just can't hit the 3 at at least 35% and he can hit the long 2 at a very high rate (extremely rare since shooters are concentrating on maximizing efficiency. Korver aint sitting all day and practicing long 2's)

Here you guy Gallo's chart (notice a pattern?):

i never said that the shot was a good shot to work for as a natural part of an offense-- that's why i think it's a good shot to take as a last resort because there's a probability that the later in the possession you are the more possible it is that the defense has broken down and that 16-20 footer will be an open look, ie not contested..

showing me manu and gallo does no good because neither is a humphries/griffin/jason smith type player. showing me the shot charts of manu and gallo in seasons prior to this one also doesn't help.

what i am curious about are the shot charts for griffin and humphries from this season.

i am here to learn so educate me.

EFF THE TANK!

The midrange game is important and has a place in the league. Ultimately "a good shot" depends on the shooter, the offense and the circumstances, not soley on where on the floor its taken

dk7th wrote:look first off i was referencing non stretch 4s who do not have the ability to drive with regularity, and i was referencing what i thought may be a trend this season. also, i suggested elsewhere that there is a high likelihood that these shots are taken late in the possession, something that iirc you pooh-poohed elsewhere but are agreeing with now.

i never said that the shot was a good shot to work for as a natural part of an offense-- that's why i think it's a good shot to take as a last resort because there's a probability that the later in the possession you are the more possible it is that the defense has broken down and that 16-20 footer will be an open look, ie not contested..

showing me manu and gallo does no good because neither is a humphries/griffin/jason smith type player. showing me the shot charts of manu and gallo in seasons prior to this one also doesn't help.

what i am curious about are the shot charts for griffin and humphries from this season.

i am here to learn so educate me.

Fair enough.

Blake has added a long mid range to his game this year. While some have complimented it. It is very obvious that the very shots have really hurt his efficiency.

What they are trying to get LA not to do, he added. I can check if he has a shot chart for this year but I don't think there is one available yet. The data is available and bask-ref though.

Blakes TS has gone down from a premium 58.3 to a very eh 54.9. His WS48 has gone from a very premium .205 to a good .174. I am sure there are other factors too but his TS hit is huge.

What changed?

Well ... his rebounds are down but his assists are up ... so a bit of a wash.

He has gone from taking 26.7 of his shots between 16 and 23 last year to 37.6 of his shots this year! 37.6 thats utterly ridiculous!

who the hells idea was that? And, he is taking them early in the clock!

He is hitting them at a very above average rate though of 40.1% - BIG WHOOP. We have a new modern power forward who has learned how to shoot the 22 footer at a great 40 percent. Now, if his goal is to move back slowly and eventually turn those into 38 percent 3's, then I am all for it. Now it just looks like a clown move thats quite puzzling.

Players like Dirk, Curry and Durant are just in a different league where the defense is running at them in so many ways to figure out how to contain them. They will run at them with 3 guys to run them off their shots. They can hit from anywhere on the court and do. They are very unique exceptions.

Durant, as great as he is, still has more to learn with shot selections. He settles just A bit too much for long 2's and does not have a post game to keep the defense honest (which is especially needed in the playoffs so that Tony Allens won't be able to guard him). With all that being said, he is one of the most ridiculous shooters and efficient players ever! What he and Curry are doing is just insane.

Also, Duran't still only takes 16% of his shots from 16-23 feet. If at all possible, he would rather take his 40% 3 than this 42 percent long 2. Sometimes he does not have a choice (16% of the time) I get that.

Dirk is hitting these sh1t shots at a whopping 51.6 which is unworldly. He is so much taller than his defender and he has that (one) step back fade. He is an exception not the rule. Blake will never be able to do what Dirk has done. He may be the best of all time in this space.