Knicks · Intensely impressed with Russell (page 2)

Lets play the what if game.

What if Jose calderon had an under table agreement to ensure tjat Marc Gasol is a knick next year. Do you select OK4 and try and trade down? Or select russell with the top pick? Are you that high on this kid that you would select him with the #1 pick?

We might need a big, and I'm in on taking OK4, but some of the biggest mistakes in draft history have occurred when teams took big over not so big.

Thabeet, Darko, Oden, Bargnani, K. Brown, Olowokandi, Bowie... You don't always hit an Anthony Davis or Tim Duncan jackpot.

I think Russell will have a lot of appeal to Phil, but the college regular season is not over, there is March Madness, and then all the tryouts. Add to this the possibility of not getting OK4, and I see no reason why Phil HAS to go for size.

WaltLongmire wrote:We might need a big, and I'm in on taking OK4, but some of the biggest mistakes in draft history have occurred when teams took big over not so big.

Thabeet, Darko, Oden, Bargnani, K. Brown, Olowokandi, Bowie... You don't always hit an Anthony Davis or Tim Duncan jackpot.

I think Russell will have a lot of appeal to Phil, but the college regular season is not over, there is March Madness, and then all the tryouts. Add to this the possibility of not getting OK4, and I see no reason why Phil HAS to go for size.

I think there is significant safety factor with Okafor as a big. When you get down to it--you can say what skill does this guy have--and the bottom line is this guy can score in the post--the names you mentioned above at their best in CBB or who didnt even play CBB--they dont have the fundamental and proven offensive talents/skills/size that this guy has. At worst we could look around to find a pogo stick type like Chris Andersen to play next to Okafor to make up for his defensive deficiency--those guys are round and dont cost too much. but to get the potential 25 point pivot scorer--thats the hard part.

When you say pick #1 or 2 3 etc.. I think you need some bonafies. I think there is some bonafides that Okafor than Russell are proving to be big time players. Karl Towns has played 1 great game against a mid major--one game he scored over 15 points out of 18. Now you cant dismiss his triple threat ability--but is he has safe as proven Russell or Okafor--no. Even if Towns ended up as the best player in the draft--unless he has a few more games like he did against E Kentucky--its hard to pick him above these two(thats is were lucky enough to be top 3) as well as Mudiay without seeing consistent game production in a live setting like these two guys are doing. I think that any one doing their draft stuff must have Okafor #1 and Russell #2 right now.

mreinman wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

TPercy wrote:

mreinman wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

mreinman wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:If anyone watched that--they'd now be thinking Okafor or Russell--that good. Best pass I have seen in CBB in 10 years tonight-- magic Johnson type stuff. If he was just a tad more athletic he'd be an easy #1 but hes still great and I mean great. Hes long hes got long arms hes a GREAT passer great shooter quality man defender and an excellent rebounder from the guard position. Really the only thing you are talking about is just a little speed and ups but this is the next Walt Frazier here folks.

Geeeeeeeez! Really? Can we see how he does in the NBA a bit first?

This guy is Walt Frazier.

So we have Tim Duncan and Walt Frazier coming in the same draft. Now that is a special draft class!

Exactly what I was about to say

Possibly an Anthony Davis[Towns] and maybe Iverson[Mudiay]

They've been referenced too

Uhhhhhh... sure you can play ... freaks are cool with us too.

mreinman wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

mreinman wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:If anyone watched that--they'd now be thinking Okafor or Russell--that good. Best pass I have seen in CBB in 10 years tonight-- magic Johnson type stuff. If he was just a tad more athletic he'd be an easy #1 but hes still great and I mean great. Hes long hes got long arms hes a GREAT passer great shooter quality man defender and an excellent rebounder from the guard position. Really the only thing you are talking about is just a little speed and ups but this is the next Walt Frazier here folks.

Geeeeeeeez! Really? Can we see how he does in the NBA a bit first?

This guy is Walt Frazier.

So we have Tim Duncan and Walt Frazier coming in the same draft. Now that is a special draft class!

Who have also been compared to Eddy Curry and Evan Turner!

smackeddog wrote:

mreinman wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

mreinman wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:If anyone watched that--they'd now be thinking Okafor or Russell--that good. Best pass I have seen in CBB in 10 years tonight-- magic Johnson type stuff. If he was just a tad more athletic he'd be an easy #1 but hes still great and I mean great. Hes long hes got long arms hes a GREAT passer great shooter quality man defender and an excellent rebounder from the guard position. Really the only thing you are talking about is just a little speed and ups but this is the next Walt Frazier here folks.

Geeeeeeeez! Really? Can we see how he does in the NBA a bit first?

This guy is Walt Frazier.

So we have Tim Duncan and Walt Frazier coming in the same draft. Now that is a special draft class!

Who have also been compared to Eddy Curry and Evan Turner!

I think Okafor can exceed Duncan offensively but hes not the defender rebounder Duncan is in anyway. I think if he really has a 7-5 wingspan and hes all of 6-10+ than he should be better in those areas --perhaps with 10 pounds of weight loss and coaching. He just doesnt seem as long defensively and athletically as a young Duncan or even an old Duncan. But could a team use a 25 points 9 rebound 4 assists player who shoots close to 60%?

Yeah, I would love to target D'Angelo Russell in the draft. Kid is legit.

intensely impressed? tdmi? lol

BRIGGS wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:We might need a big, and I'm in on taking OK4, but some of the biggest mistakes in draft history have occurred when teams took big over not so big.

Thabeet, Darko, Oden, Bargnani, K. Brown, Olowokandi, Bowie... You don't always hit an Anthony Davis or Tim Duncan jackpot.

I think Russell will have a lot of appeal to Phil, but the college regular season is not over, there is March Madness, and then all the tryouts. Add to this the possibility of not getting OK4, and I see no reason why Phil HAS to go for size.

I think there is significant safety factor with Okafor as a big. When you get down to it--you can say what skill does this guy have--and the bottom line is this guy can score in the post--the names you mentioned above at their best in CBB or who didnt even play CBB--they dont have the fundamental and proven offensive talents/skills/size that this guy has. At worst we could look around to find a pogo stick type like Chris Andersen to play next to Okafor to make up for his defensive deficiency--those guys are round and dont cost too much. but to get the potential 25 point pivot scorer--thats the hard part.

When you say pick #1 or 2 3 etc.. I think you need some bonafies. I think there is some bonafides that Okafor than Russell are proving to be big time players. Karl Towns has played 1 great game against a mid major--one game he scored over 15 points out of 18. Now you cant dismiss his triple threat ability--but is he has safe as proven Russell or Okafor--no. Even if Towns ended up as the best player in the draft--unless he has a few more games like he did against E Kentucky--its hard to pick him above these two(thats is were lucky enough to be top 3) as well as Mudiay without seeing consistent game production in a live setting like these two guys are doing. I think that any one doing their draft stuff must have Okafor #1 and Russell #2 right now.

So it would seem that the real issue with you would be who we pick if we lose out at #1, and have to choose at #'s 2,3,or 4.

Sounds like you would target Russell, and I think Phil might also be more interested in him than Towns, although you always have to consider guys who might prove themselves the rest of the year- especially someone who would carry a team in the NCAA tournament.

Got to see Portis in overtime yesterday. Not one of his best games, although he did score the winning basket on a very smart cut to the basket. Moved well on defense- came out to the perimeter once or twice, and saw a good block on an Alabama penetrator. Saw one attempted shot in the paint which did not look polished, but was not able to see that high release jump shot of his because he did not take one. Wish I had been able to see the entire game.

When is the last time anyone has seen a pass like this--forget freshmen in college? Look how easily he throws it--hes palming the ball like a tennis ball.

BRIGGS wrote:When is the last time anyone has seen a pass like this--forget freshmen in college? Look how easily he throws it--hes palming the ball like a tennis ball.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdId6AdS-xg&x-yt-ts=1421914688&x-yt-cl=84503534

I don't see Russell as a top two pick its a bounce pass that he has done before, Sam Dalebert has a few of those this year 4-7 range possibly. Good talent just not enough athleticism. Would love to see how he scores at the combine. Could be better than what we see.

WaltLongmire wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:We might need a big, and I'm in on taking OK4, but some of the biggest mistakes in draft history have occurred when teams took big over not so big.

Thabeet, Darko, Oden, Bargnani, K. Brown, Olowokandi, Bowie... You don't always hit an Anthony Davis or Tim Duncan jackpot.

I think Russell will have a lot of appeal to Phil, but the college regular season is not over, there is March Madness, and then all the tryouts. Add to this the possibility of not getting OK4, and I see no reason why Phil HAS to go for size.

I think there is significant safety factor with Okafor as a big. When you get down to it--you can say what skill does this guy have--and the bottom line is this guy can score in the post--the names you mentioned above at their best in CBB or who didnt even play CBB--they dont have the fundamental and proven offensive talents/skills/size that this guy has. At worst we could look around to find a pogo stick type like Chris Andersen to play next to Okafor to make up for his defensive deficiency--those guys are round and dont cost too much. but to get the potential 25 point pivot scorer--thats the hard part.

When you say pick #1 or 2 3 etc.. I think you need some bonafies. I think there is some bonafides that Okafor than Russell are proving to be big time players. Karl Towns has played 1 great game against a mid major--one game he scored over 15 points out of 18. Now you cant dismiss his triple threat ability--but is he has safe as proven Russell or Okafor--no. Even if Towns ended up as the best player in the draft--unless he has a few more games like he did against E Kentucky--its hard to pick him above these two(thats is were lucky enough to be top 3) as well as Mudiay without seeing consistent game production in a live setting like these two guys are doing. I think that any one doing their draft stuff must have Okafor #1 and Russell #2 right now.

So it would seem that the real issue with you would be who we pick if we lose out at #1, and have to choose at #'s 2,3,or 4.

Sounds like you would target Russell, and I think Phil might also be more interested in him than Towns, although you always have to consider guys who might prove themselves the rest of the year- especially someone who would carry a team in the NCAA tournament.

Got to see Portis in overtime yesterday. Not one of his best games, although he did score the winning basket on a very smart cut to the basket. Moved well on defense- came out to the perimeter once or twice, and saw a good block on an Alabama penetrator. Saw one attempted shot in the paint which did not look polished, but was not able to see that high release jump shot of his because he did not take one. Wish I had been able to see the entire game.

Yeah that was Portis's worst -looking game of the season--but still had good production and a double double. Have you seen Michael Qualls play--I have him ranked as my #22 player--hes a top 3 athlete in CBB.

BRIGGS wrote:When is the last time anyone has seen a pass like this--forget freshmen in college? Look how easily he throws it--hes palming the ball like a tennis ball.

The pass was good. Lets not go crazy.

WaltLongmire wrote:We might need a big, and I'm in on taking OK4, but some of the biggest mistakes in draft history have occurred when teams took big over not so big.

Thabeet, Darko, Oden, Bargnani, K. Brown, Olowokandi, Bowie... You don't always hit an Anthony Davis or Tim Duncan jackpot.

I think Russell will have a lot of appeal to Phil, but the college regular season is not over, there is March Madness, and then all the tryouts. Add to this the possibility of not getting OK4, and I see no reason why Phil HAS to go for size.

The difference between OK4 and Olowakandi, Brown and the rest of those guys is that we've seen OK4 dominate the paint first hand. The other guys were seen as projects in mediocre drafts. Oden, Sampson and Bowie are sad cases of talented players who proved they could play in the league, but were too injury prone. I thought Joel Embiid was more talented than OK4, but I would still take OK4 over him because of the injury concerns. There are no sure things, but I believe OK4 is the most NBA ready selection in the upcoming draft.

Vmart wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:When is the last time anyone has seen a pass like this--forget freshmen in college? Look how easily he throws it--hes palming the ball like a tennis ball.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdId6AdS-xg&x-yt-ts=1421914688&x-yt-cl=84503534

I don't see Russell as a top two pick its a bounce pass that he has done before, Sam Dalebert has a few of those this year 4-7 range possibly. Good talent just not enough athleticism. Would love to see how he scores at the combine. Could be better than what we see.

The athletic question marks worry me. It's easier to score when you're carte blance to shoot the rock. Look how dominant Evan Turner was. But the guys in the league are too fast and quick to get away with that. I do think GE's better better than Turner. However, I don't see this as a guy I want chasing Damian Lilliard and Steph Curry around the court in addition to shouldering playmaking abilities.

mreinman wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:When is the last time anyone has seen a pass like this--forget freshmen in college? Look how easily he throws it--hes palming the ball like a tennis ball.

The pass was good. Lets not go crazy.

Not so much the pass but the overall game he has displaying has been very impressive. I think With Mudiay Russell Towns and Okafor were going to get a high caliber player.

Those 5 guys seem to be locks. Outside of those 5 then it's really a gamble. That's usually how drafts go anyway. This seems like it could be one of the better ones in recent times

gunsnewing wrote:Those 5 guys seem to be locks. Outside of those 5 then it's really a gamble. That's usually how drafts go anyway. This seems like it could be one of the better ones in recent times

locks before the tourney?

BigDaddyG wrote:

Vmart wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:When is the last time anyone has seen a pass like this--forget freshmen in college? Look how easily he throws it--hes palming the ball like a tennis ball.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdId6AdS-xg&x-yt-ts=1421914688&x-yt-cl=84503534

I don't see Russell as a top two pick its a bounce pass that he has done before, Sam Dalebert has a few of those this year 4-7 range possibly. Good talent just not enough athleticism. Would love to see how he scores at the combine. Could be better than what we see.

The athletic question marks worry me. It's easier to score when you're carte blance to shoot the rock. Look how dominant Evan Turner was. But the guys in the league are too fast and quick to get away with that. I do think GE's better better than Turner. However, I don't see this as a guy I want chasing Damian Lilliard and Steph Curry around the court in addition to shouldering playmaking abilities.

Not sure that any single player can stop those guys.

A Galloway type guard might come into play if Russell is drafted. Let this kind of player go up against the opposition PG. Russell has some size, no reason why he can't compete at the SG position defensively... at least he can match their speed to some extent.

At least from what I have heard and read, you don't need the classic PG in the offense we will run. Russell and Galloway (I might be putting the cart before the horse in saying he will be a starter next year) can both shoot from distance, and also have midrange games. Russell is the more spectacular passer and is a better 1/1 type of player-Galloway seems a bit more conservative and disciplined at this point.

I would think Phil needs a big man who can pass, so that has to be considered. OK4 is a decent passer, not sure about the other potential centers in this draft. His center will also need a decent midrange shot. I think if this kind of player is not available if we can't get OK4, Phil might very well take a player like Russell.

This is probably the most important draft Phil will ever participate in as a Knick. Hope he makes the right pick.

The tournament is not going to change much. You will see the nation go crazy over the next Adam Morrison or Jimmer Fredette because he individually dominated the tournament. This is how Deayne Wade drops to 5th

you will have a better sense of where these guys will be picked once teams start to work them out