Knicks · Tobias In A New York State Of Mind? (page 2)

mreinman wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

Vmart wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

Vmart wrote:No thanks.

I guess No thanks means No welcomes

As in no thanks Tobias you're not welcome here

Melol!

Home comings never really work well in this day and age. Harris has some talent but nothing that says I want to spend money on. Back up player at best. He probably looking for a big contract that the Knicks should just avoid on a player of Harris' ability.

Tobias has shown strong development every season he's been in the league and he seems to be a decent enough man to man defender at either position. I'd rather gamble on him than an older player like Wes Mathews.

really? Thats mind boggling!

Why is Mathews a gamble? He is a proven player and proven to be excellent.

Matthews is a consistent player. The gamble comes with money, years etc. Harris has proven that he's a hard worker, but we'd still be gambling that he still has room for growth.

His injuries are a big concern to me and both CA and Tobias are similar players that has trouble defending the 3 but not big, strong, athletic, enough to defend the 4
Neither are good defenders in any poisiton, can create any shot with consistency, and cannot create for team mates
I do not think having both CA and Tobias work for us, just my opinion....

Vucevic would have been perfect with his ability to play PF/C

RonRon wrote:His injuries are a big concern to me and both CA and Tobias are similar players that has trouble defending the 3 but not big, strong, athletic, enough to defend the 4
Neither are good defenders in any poisiton, can create any shot with consistency, and cannot create for team mates
I do not think having both CA and Tobias work for us, just my opinion....

Vucevic would have been perfect with his ability to play PF/C

I think having two multifaceted scorers from the forward position, especially in the triangle will make our offense flow much better. We'd still need a defensive anchor at center. Harris makes less sense for us if we grab OK4. Outside of that, I think it can work with the right personnel.

People always say he is a great defender and I'm in no position to comment about it since I don't watch him play that much and when I do I tend to focus more on what he does on offense....is he really that good on D?

Nice player but I don't necessarily see the fit with us. We have Melo and Cleanthony Early already here. I think with some more hard work (esp. on his ball-handling) and continued development, Early could be something close to this guy eventually. Early doesn't have the creativity this guy and a lot of other SFs have off the dribble yet. He improves that aspect to the point where he's comfortable in an iso clear-out and can make something happen in those situations, I think Early could do exactly what this kid Harris is doing or come damn close. Just not there yet. Hopefully Early's ready to resuming playing after a few games off.

BigDaddyG wrote:

RonRon wrote:His injuries are a big concern to me and both CA and Tobias are similar players that has trouble defending the 3 but not big, strong, athletic, enough to defend the 4
Neither are good defenders in any poisiton, can create any shot with consistency, and cannot create for team mates
I do not think having both CA and Tobias work for us, just my opinion....

Vucevic would have been perfect with his ability to play PF/C

I think having two multifaceted scorers from the forward position, especially in the triangle will make our offense flow much better. We'd still need a defensive anchor at center. Harris makes less sense for us if we grab OK4. Outside of that, I think it can work with the right personnel.

We probably can be decent on OFFENSE
But we will have too many weak defensive players to be a good defensive team, inviting many teams to attack us with through our weakness's
Lets also must remember Tobias also has his fair share of injuries and what tipe of money/years to we want to offer a player that is a RFA
If we want to be contenders, in my opinion, we must be atleast a good defensive team and be at least a good offensive team
Now if we are not GREAT at either OFFENSE or DEFENSIVE, we better be GREAT in rebounding and EFFICIENCY

With Harris with CA, they are 2 players that are scorers, not good rebounders, not good defenders, and not good OFF the ball
It is a recipe of medicrity at best....

This is why I would rather have Vucevic at a max than Harris but he resigned already
To me it is a no brainer, to offer similar contracts to either Harris or Draymond Green

Harris is a good scorer but does not have all the skills that Green has and is not even close when it comes to rebounding, defense, leadership, and coming from a winning culture
If we want to play like a team that has good ball movement, good defensive team, plays with high energy, and establish a winning culture then we should acquire players that fits that description

not

having 2 scorers that need the ball to be effective
So getting talents that are

1- YOUNG, so they can be part of our franchise moving forward and not just for a couple of years
2- Without injury concerns
3- Make players around them better, with the ability to effective both with and without the ball, 2 way players
4- good defensive players that plays good 1v1 defense, good team defense, and has the ability to defend multiple positions
5- versatile, highly skilled in all area's like GS and Atlanta has, with HIGH BB IQ, and can guide our young guys in their development in both OFFENSE and DEFENSE
6- will filll a leadership role that we clearly have missed since Kidd and Rasheed brought to the team
7- high work ethic, intagibles, high motor, that understands and plays on a winning caliber team, and can pass this knowledge on to the rest of our team, including out young guys especially elevate the development of our 2015 1st roudner, Thanasis (who has a very high ceiling and physical atributes), Galloway, Orlando Sanchiez, Travis Wear, Tim Hardaway JR, and whoever we may pick up this summer

Draymond Green can easily be a triple double threat every night, if we run the OFFENSE through him and have a few smarter players with physical talents to play with him
If there is one guy we can lure in FA, it would easily be him because of the high salary of GS

I would not mind just paying him the max and then spreading out talents with contracts in the range of multiple contracts with 2year and 3rd year team options (so by 2017 we can possibly lure a Durant/Noah or/and whoever over here if we happen to develop our guys to attract talents to want to play in NYK again, believing we are going to be legit contenders to go with a great marketing city

2m

3m-3.5m

4.5-5.5m

So Green is a triple double threat but he could help the development of our young guys
Green is no way is a Jordan but in some ways he could be like a Scotty Pippen
Yes we will not have Curry or Thompson however, we will never acquire those type of talents at their respective ages unless we draft and develop them ourselves in which is unlikely to happen in the next 4-6years with out lack of draft picks
Look at JR Smith and Tyson Chandler, why were they unproductive here and quickley bounce back when they leave?
Maybe CA just isn't the player that has the leadership qualities and defensive skills that franchise talents generally have and do not have the skills to faciltate, score, and initiate the offense on a everyday level

That is alright because,
In the end, he is still a very good scorer and a very good shooter but we must be able to fill the voids that he doesn't have in order to be successfull
He has the abilities to play both inside and outside, however, we need another SF/PF that is the complete opposite from him to balance it out
Coming from GS, he will teach our guys and maybe even CA, on how to attack and red defenses as a whole, and would make Derek Fisher's job a lot easier, having a extra coach on the floor, lockerroom, and in the gym/training

He elevates and makes everyone better and could teach all these skills on how to play, how to communicate, and already has the respect of everyone coming from a team as impressive as GS has been
If anyone watched GS play this year and the way they defend and make multiple teams that are GREAT and 1v1 talents on offense (like WEstbrook, Harden, Howard, Bledsoe, Cousins, and the tough Western Conference) on ALL positions in the NBA with consistency
They know how to play as a unit on BOTH ENDS and that is something that Green can actually teach our team to do....

The salaries of the talents we can target with the contracts listed above would be players that FIT that role, I do not think there would be any player that would not love to play the style that GS and Atlanta has been playing greatly at this year
Every year, many players in those type of contracts wind up being steals and outplay their contracts

especially for players in the range of 3m-5.5m, I believe those players will make the most difference as they easily have the greatest chance out outplaying what their contracts are
Because of the NEW CBA, maybe even do TEAM options on some players on year 3/4, as we look for cost efficient talents, some talents on bad teams and some players on VERY good teams that play with chemistry and good defense, like Atlanta, GS, Spurs, etc

I like Tobias because he can play inside out. I think he would be great. He also plays well without the ball. It would be a risk but the guy is 22 and will be 23 in July. He hasn't even scratched the surface of his game but has continued to improve.

Finestrg wrote:Nice player but I don't necessarily see the fit with us. We have Melo and Cleanthony Early already here. I think with some more hard work (esp. on his ball-handling) and continued development, Early could be something close to this guy eventually. Early doesn't have the creativity this guy and a lot of other SFs have off the dribble yet. He improves that aspect to the point where he's comfortable in an iso clear-out and can make something happen in those situations, I think Early could do exactly what this kid Harris is doing or come damn close. Just not there yet. Hopefully Early's ready to resuming playing after a few games off.

Let Early be and maybe Wear be their back up. I want a roster full of mobile players. Also, Tobias is younger than both Wear and Early with a higher upside.

RonRon wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

RonRon wrote:His injuries are a big concern to me and both CA and Tobias are similar players that has trouble defending the 3 but not big, strong, athletic, enough to defend the 4
Neither are good defenders in any poisiton, can create any shot with consistency, and cannot create for team mates
I do not think having both CA and Tobias work for us, just my opinion....

Vucevic would have been perfect with his ability to play PF/C

I think having two multifaceted scorers from the forward position, especially in the triangle will make our offense flow much better. We'd still need a defensive anchor at center. Harris makes less sense for us if we grab OK4. Outside of that, I think it can work with the right personnel.

We probably can be decent on OFFENSE
But we will have too many weak defensive players to be a good defensive team, inviting many teams to attack us with through our weakness's
Lets also must remember Tobias also has his fair share of injuries and what tipe of money/years to we want to offer a player that is a RFA
If we want to be contenders, in my opinion, we must be atleast a good defensive team and be at least a good offensive team
Now if we are not GREAT at either OFFENSE or DEFENSIVE, we better be GREAT in rebounding and EFFICIENCY

With Harris with CA, they are 2 players that are scorers, not good rebounders, not good defenders, and not good OFF the ball
It is a recipe of medicrity at best....

This is why I would rather have Vucevic at a max than Harris but he resigned already
To me it is a no brainer, to offer similar contracts to either Harris or Draymond Green

Harris is a good scorer but does not have all the skills that Green has and is not even close when it comes to rebounding, defense, leadership, and coming from a winning culture
If we want to play like a team that has good ball movement, good defensive team, plays with high energy, and establish a winning culture then we should acquire players that fits that description

not

having 2 scorers that need the ball to be effective
So getting talents that are

1- YOUNG, so they can be part of our franchise moving forward and not just for a couple of years
2- Without injury concerns
3- Make players around them better, with the ability to effective both with and without the ball, 2 way players
4- good defensive players that plays good 1v1 defense, good team defense, and has the ability to defend multiple positions
5- versatile, highly skilled in all area's like GS and Atlanta has, with HIGH BB IQ, and can guide our young guys in their development in both OFFENSE and DEFENSE
6- will filll a leadership role that we clearly have missed since Kidd and Rasheed brought to the team
7- high work ethic, intagibles, high motor, that understands and plays on a winning caliber team, and can pass this knowledge on to the rest of our team, including out young guys especially elevate the development of our 2015 1st roudner, Thanasis (who has a very high ceiling and physical atributes), Galloway, Orlando Sanchiez, Travis Wear, Tim Hardaway JR, and whoever we may pick up this summer

Draymond Green can easily be a triple double threat every night, if we run the OFFENSE through him and have a few smarter players with physical talents to play with him
If there is one guy we can lure in FA, it would easily be him because of the high salary of GS

I would not mind just paying him the max and then spreading out talents with contracts in the range of multiple contracts with 2year and 3rd year team options (so by 2017 we can possibly lure a Durant/Noah or/and whoever over here if we happen to develop our guys to attract talents to want to play in NYK again, believing we are going to be legit contenders to go with a great marketing city

2m

3m-3.5m

4.5-5.5m

So Green is a triple double threat but he could help the development of our young guys
Green is no way is a Jordan but in some ways he could be like a Scotty Pippen
Yes we will not have Curry or Thompson however, we will never acquire those type of talents at their respective ages unless we draft and develop them ourselves in which is unlikely to happen in the next 4-6years with out lack of draft picks
Look at JR Smith and Tyson Chandler, why were they unproductive here and quickley bounce back when they leave?
Maybe CA just isn't the player that has the leadership qualities and defensive skills that franchise talents generally have and do not have the skills to faciltate, score, and initiate the offense on a everyday level

That is alright because,
In the end, he is still a very good scorer and a very good shooter but we must be able to fill the voids that he doesn't have in order to be successfull
He has the abilities to play both inside and outside, however, we need another SF/PF that is the complete opposite from him to balance it out
Coming from GS, he will teach our guys and maybe even CA, on how to attack and red defenses as a whole, and would make Derek Fisher's job a lot easier, having a extra coach on the floor, lockerroom, and in the gym/training

He elevates and makes everyone better and could teach all these skills on how to play, how to communicate, and already has the respect of everyone coming from a team as impressive as GS has been
If anyone watched GS play this year and the way they defend and make multiple teams that are GREAT and 1v1 talents on offense (like WEstbrook, Harden, Howard, Bledsoe, Cousins, and the tough Western Conference) on ALL positions in the NBA with consistency
They know how to play as a unit on BOTH ENDS and that is something that Green can actually teach our team to do....

The salaries of the talents we can target with the contracts listed above would be players that FIT that role, I do not think there would be any player that would not love to play the style that GS and Atlanta has been playing greatly at this year
Every year, many players in those type of contracts wind up being steals and outplay their contracts

especially for players in the range of 3m-5.5m, I believe those players will make the most difference as they easily have the greatest chance out outplaying what their contracts are
Because of the NEW CBA, maybe even do TEAM options on some players on year 3/4, as we look for cost efficient talents, some talents on bad teams and some players on VERY good teams that play with chemistry and good defense, like Atlanta, GS, Spurs, etc

I agree with what you are saying but it is a stretch to say that melo and tobias are not good rebounders....next to draymond green they both lead sf position in rebounds.

RonRon wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

RonRon wrote:His injuries are a big concern to me and both CA and Tobias are similar players that has trouble defending the 3 but not big, strong, athletic, enough to defend the 4
Neither are good defenders in any poisiton, can create any shot with consistency, and cannot create for team mates
I do not think having both CA and Tobias work for us, just my opinion....

Vucevic would have been perfect with his ability to play PF/C

I think having two multifaceted scorers from the forward position, especially in the triangle will make our offense flow much better. We'd still need a defensive anchor at center. Harris makes less sense for us if we grab OK4. Outside of that, I think it can work with the right personnel.

We probably can be decent on OFFENSE
But we will have too many weak defensive players to be a good defensive team, inviting many teams to attack us with through our weakness's
Lets also must remember Tobias also has his fair share of injuries and what tipe of money/years to we want to offer a player that is a RFA
If we want to be contenders, in my opinion, we must be atleast a good defensive team and be at least a good offensive team
Now if we are not GREAT at either OFFENSE or DEFENSIVE, we better be GREAT in rebounding and EFFICIENCY

With Harris with CA, they are 2 players that are scorers, not good rebounders, not good defenders, and not good OFF the ball
It is a recipe of medicrity at best....

This is why I would rather have Vucevic at a max than Harris but he resigned already
To me it is a no brainer, to offer similar contracts to either Harris or Draymond Green

Harris is a good scorer but does not have all the skills that Green has and is not even close when it comes to rebounding, defense, leadership, and coming from a winning culture
If we want to play like a team that has good ball movement, good defensive team, plays with high energy, and establish a winning culture then we should acquire players that fits that description

not

having 2 scorers that need the ball to be effective
So getting talents that are

1- YOUNG, so they can be part of our franchise moving forward and not just for a couple of years
2- Without injury concerns
3- Make players around them better, with the ability to effective both with and without the ball, 2 way players
4- good defensive players that plays good 1v1 defense, good team defense, and has the ability to defend multiple positions
5- versatile, highly skilled in all area's like GS and Atlanta has, with HIGH BB IQ, and can guide our young guys in their development in both OFFENSE and DEFENSE
6- will filll a leadership role that we clearly have missed since Kidd and Rasheed brought to the team
7- high work ethic, intagibles, high motor, that understands and plays on a winning caliber team, and can pass this knowledge on to the rest of our team, including out young guys especially elevate the development of our 2015 1st roudner, Thanasis (who has a very high ceiling and physical atributes), Galloway, Orlando Sanchiez, Travis Wear, Tim Hardaway JR, and whoever we may pick up this summer

Draymond Green can easily be a triple double threat every night, if we run the OFFENSE through him and have a few smarter players with physical talents to play with him
If there is one guy we can lure in FA, it would easily be him because of the high salary of GS

I would not mind just paying him the max and then spreading out talents with contracts in the range of multiple contracts with 2year and 3rd year team options (so by 2017 we can possibly lure a Durant/Noah or/and whoever over here if we happen to develop our guys to attract talents to want to play in NYK again, believing we are going to be legit contenders to go with a great marketing city

2m

3m-3.5m

4.5-5.5m

So Green is a triple double threat but he could help the development of our young guys
Green is no way is a Jordan but in some ways he could be like a Scotty Pippen
Yes we will not have Curry or Thompson however, we will never acquire those type of talents at their respective ages unless we draft and develop them ourselves in which is unlikely to happen in the next 4-6years with out lack of draft picks
Look at JR Smith and Tyson Chandler, why were they unproductive here and quickley bounce back when they leave?
Maybe CA just isn't the player that has the leadership qualities and defensive skills that franchise talents generally have and do not have the skills to faciltate, score, and initiate the offense on a everyday level

That is alright because,
In the end, he is still a very good scorer and a very good shooter but we must be able to fill the voids that he doesn't have in order to be successfull
He has the abilities to play both inside and outside, however, we need another SF/PF that is the complete opposite from him to balance it out
Coming from GS, he will teach our guys and maybe even CA, on how to attack and red defenses as a whole, and would make Derek Fisher's job a lot easier, having a extra coach on the floor, lockerroom, and in the gym/training

He elevates and makes everyone better and could teach all these skills on how to play, how to communicate, and already has the respect of everyone coming from a team as impressive as GS has been
If anyone watched GS play this year and the way they defend and make multiple teams that are GREAT and 1v1 talents on offense (like WEstbrook, Harden, Howard, Bledsoe, Cousins, and the tough Western Conference) on ALL positions in the NBA with consistency
They know how to play as a unit on BOTH ENDS and that is something that Green can actually teach our team to do....

The salaries of the talents we can target with the contracts listed above would be players that FIT that role, I do not think there would be any player that would not love to play the style that GS and Atlanta has been playing greatly at this year
Every year, many players in those type of contracts wind up being steals and outplay their contracts

especially for players in the range of 3m-5.5m, I believe those players will make the most difference as they easily have the greatest chance out outplaying what their contracts are
Because of the NEW CBA, maybe even do TEAM options on some players on year 3/4, as we look for cost efficient talents, some talents on bad teams and some players on VERY good teams that play with chemistry and good defense, like Atlanta, GS, Spurs, etc

I like Vucevic too, but he's signed and we don't have the assets to make a deal. Also, Harris and Melo are good rebounders. Their defensive efforts need to be more consistent, but their not habitual turn styles. We'd need to sign a Lopez or draft a Cauley-Stein under this scenario and shore up our perimeter D. Ideally, I'd just want to keep OK4 on a rookie deal. Harris would be my second choice. I like Green as a target if we somehow get Marc Gasol.

tobias has game... and on the right team he can be monstrous... i like comparing him to a more physical but shorter rashard lewis and people forget that rashard lewis was pretty fantastic before he turned into rashard lewis's untradeable contract... and if you can get him at age 23 and wants to play in ny?

take a look at this:

Rashard Lewis Age 22
mpg: 36.4
ppg: 16.8
fg: 46.8%
3fg: .389
rbs: 7
stls: 1.5
blocks: 0.5
PER: 26.46

Tobias Harris Age 22 (this season)

mpg: 35.4
ppg: 18.0
fg: 47.1%
3fg: .407
rbs: 6.9
stls: 1.0
blocks: 0.6
PER: 29.64

Rashard's next 6 year PERs? 29.16, 28.66, 28.16, 30.71, 31.15, 35.20

with some guys you have to worry about fit.. and some guys are so young and so good RIGHT NOW that you make it fit... you could never regret giving a 22 yr old kid this good a long term deal...

tell me why you wouldn't want this guy?

Harris at 23 and a first rounder who's 19 would be a great start to the rebuild.

Wow, this dude got owned by the likes of Lance thomas...pass

PhilinLA wrote:Harris at 23 and a first rounder who's 19 would be a great start to the rebuild.

Why would Orlando give us a pick to take Tobias Harris contract when they do not after to keep him and could likely even trade him to acquire a pick back?

i think he's referring to our own first rd pick....

RonRon wrote:

PhilinLA wrote:Harris at 23 and a first rounder who's 19 would be a great start to the rebuild.

Why would Orlando give us a pick to take Tobias Harris contract when they do not after to keep him and could likely even trade him to acquire a pick back?

He is talking about our first rounder that we have