Bonn1997 wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:gunsnewing wrote:The media is saying we can trade this year's lottery pick for Dragic. We all know that is impossible
Only after you have drafted him but why on earth would we especially since we are likely to get Okafor,Towns,or Russell
The problem is that those guys probably won't be in their primes while Melo is. If you want to just say these few years are shot and we can do real rebuilding once Melo's contract expires, that's another story. But our draft pick won't even be on his rookie contract then. I don't think a half rebuild, half starphuck model will work.
Again it makes zero sense to trade this years pick unless its for a lebron or durant type player.
i'd rather get redick somehow.
Bonn1997 wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:gunsnewing wrote:The media is saying we can trade this year's lottery pick for Dragic. We all know that is impossible
Only after you have drafted him but why on earth would we especially since we are likely to get Okafor,Towns,or Russell
The problem is that those guys probably won't be in their primes while Melo is. If you want to just say these few years are shot and we can do real rebuilding once Melo's contract expires, that's another story. But our draft pick won't even be on his rookie contract then. I don't think a half rebuild, half starphuck model will work.
That's why I want to sign young players like like Monroe and a good young SG and a cheap PG. We will have a good core 4yrs from now when Melo is off the books. In the meantime the knicks need to accumulate as many picks and assets as possible to build the team the right way once Melo is gone.
Otherwise it's going to be the same vicious cycle of starting from zero in 4 years
StarksEwing1 wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:gunsnewing wrote:The media is saying we can trade this year's lottery pick for Dragic. We all know that is impossible
Only after you have drafted him but why on earth would we especially since we are likely to get Okafor,Towns,or Russell
The problem is that those guys probably won't be in their primes while Melo is. If you want to just say these few years are shot and we can do real rebuilding once Melo's contract expires, that's another story. But our draft pick won't even be on his rookie contract then. I don't think a half rebuild, half starphuck model will work.
Again it makes zero sense to trade this years pick unless its for a lebron or durant type player.
Well I don't think anything other than trading our veterans and doing a real rebuild makes sense but all we can really do is go with the least bad plan. You guys are probably right that Dragic isn't good enough to give up the pick for though.
gunsnewing wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:gunsnewing wrote:The media is saying we can trade this year's lottery pick for Dragic. We all know that is impossible
Only after you have drafted him but why on earth would we especially since we are likely to get Okafor,Towns,or Russell
The problem is that those guys probably won't be in their primes while Melo is. If you want to just say these few years are shot and we can do real rebuilding once Melo's contract expires, that's another story. But our draft pick won't even be on his rookie contract then. I don't think a half rebuild, half starphuck model will work.
That's why I want to sign young players like like Monroe and a good young SG and a cheap PG. We will have a good core 4yrs from now when Melo is off the books. In the meantime the knicks need to accumulate as many picks and assets as possible to build the team the right way once Melo is gone
That's fine but it will be hard to rebuild as successfully as other rebuilding teams if we have 45% of the cap devoted to Melo and Calderon, don't have any 2nd round picks, and don't have our 2016 first round pick.
Bonn1997 wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:gunsnewing wrote:The media is saying we can trade this year's lottery pick for Dragic. We all know that is impossible
Only after you have drafted him but why on earth would we especially since we are likely to get Okafor,Towns,or Russell
The problem is that those guys probably won't be in their primes while Melo is. If you want to just say these few years are shot and we can do real rebuilding once Melo's contract expires, that's another story. But our draft pick won't even be on his rookie contract then. I don't think a half rebuild, half starphuck model will work.
Again it makes zero sense to trade this years pick unless its for a lebron or durant type player.
Well I don't think anything other than trading our veterans and doing a real rebuild makes sense but all we can really do is go with the least bad plan. You guys are probably right that Dragic isn't good enough to give up the pick for though.
I totally get where you are coming from but we seem to make the same msitakes the past 15 years. I understand Melo is aging and injuries are building up but i dont want to just start making panic moves again.
Celtics are now in the mix for Dragic.
CrushAlot wrote:Celtics are now in the mix for Dragic.
I'd take Marcus Smart & a combination of picks and players if I was Phoenix. That's a great landing spot for Dragic. It will be his team and the Celtics have ample cap space & flexibility unlike our New York Knickerbockers.
Lakers have no assets outside of Randle. Dragic Doesn't have to worry about playing with Harden. Celtics is the perfect fit
Lowry and Dragic in our division yikes
Bonn1997 wrote:fishmike wrote:a few things...
1)why is there any assumption that we would get Plumlee? The Suns have said they need more size
2)Im not trading a pick for a guy I have to pay as well
3)they can take Calderon or any other mix of players on the current roster NO PICK
That basically means not adding anyone valuable through trades.
Do you want to keep both Melo and the player we draft. Objectively speaking, how likely is it that a rookie and a 13 year veteran will end up being in their primes at the same time?
Very likely. For example Boston won 60+ games with Rondo as a rookie and Ray/KG/Pierce all in their 30s. Has KLeanard helped the Spurs in his rookie contract? We could do this all day.
The Knicks need an infusion of quality youth. Also there are at least 2 players (OK4/Russell) at the top of this draft with right out of the box NBA skill sets.
I would like to add 3 impact rotation/starters this offseason. We will start with the draft and sign two others.
Example: draft OK4, sign Robin Lopez and Dragic
Example: draft Russell, sign Robin Lopez and Greg Monroe
...you get the idea.
Im not concerned with Melo's timeframe. For "his sake" Im trying to add 3 impact guys. 2 via FA and 1 in the draft. If we can execute on that Knicks will be competitive next year. Good for Melo. That being said Melo doesnt dictate the moves, aside from his role on the team.
Celtics have the best assets to offer...unless Dragic has a no trade clause that's a done deal
And Dragic will be a very rich man in Boston
EnySpree wrote:Celtics have the best assets to offer...unless Dragic has a no trade clause that's a done deal
I don't see why he wouldn't want Boston. Much more attractive future than New York & LA
gunsnewing wrote:EnySpree wrote:Celtics have the best assets to offer...unless Dragic has a no trade clause that's a done deal
I don't see why he wouldn't want Boston. Much more attractive future than New York & LA
That's debatable. All three teams all need to make improvements. Knicks could make the biggest turn around says my orange Kool-aid
I can see Boston netting Durant or Davis. Maybe a great SG like Jimmy Butler. Maybe Gasol or Monroe. They would be set for a nearly a decade.
For those that say you can't start from zero...I envy the Celtics rebuilding skills. Wish the knicks went about things the same way but Ive been wishing for that for 15yrs so it will never happen
fishmike wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:fishmike wrote:a few things...
1)why is there any assumption that we would get Plumlee? The Suns have said they need more size
2)Im not trading a pick for a guy I have to pay as well
3)they can take Calderon or any other mix of players on the current roster NO PICK
That basically means not adding anyone valuable through trades.
Do you want to keep both Melo and the player we draft. Objectively speaking, how likely is it that a rookie and a 13 year veteran will end up being in their primes at the same time?
Very likely. For example Boston won 60+ games with Rondo as a rookie and Ray/KG/Pierce all in their 30s. Has KLeanard helped the Spurs in his rookie contract? We could do this all day.The Knicks need an infusion of quality youth. Also there are at least 2 players (OK4/Russell) at the top of this draft with right out of the box NBA skill sets.
I would like to add 3 impact rotation/starters this offseason. We will start with the draft and sign two others.
Example: draft OK4, sign Robin Lopez and Dragic
Example: draft Russell, sign Robin Lopez and Greg Monroe
...you get the idea.
Im not concerned with Melo's timeframe. For "his sake" Im trying to add 3 impact guys. 2 via FA and 1 in the draft. If we can execute on that Knicks will be competitive next year. Good for Melo. That being said Melo doesnt dictate the moves, aside from his role on the team.
The Boston example doesn't help. By the time those 3 vets were in their 13th seasons, things were going rapidly downhill for the team.
I do think the posters here are right that we'd have to get something better than Dragic in a trade though.
Bonn1997 wrote:fishmike wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:fishmike wrote:a few things...
1)why is there any assumption that we would get Plumlee? The Suns have said they need more size
2)Im not trading a pick for a guy I have to pay as well
3)they can take Calderon or any other mix of players on the current roster NO PICK
That basically means not adding anyone valuable through trades.
Do you want to keep both Melo and the player we draft. Objectively speaking, how likely is it that a rookie and a 13 year veteran will end up being in their primes at the same time?
Very likely. For example Boston won 60+ games with Rondo as a rookie and Ray/KG/Pierce all in their 30s. Has KLeanard helped the Spurs in his rookie contract? We could do this all day.The Knicks need an infusion of quality youth. Also there are at least 2 players (OK4/Russell) at the top of this draft with right out of the box NBA skill sets.
I would like to add 3 impact rotation/starters this offseason. We will start with the draft and sign two others.
Example: draft OK4, sign Robin Lopez and Dragic
Example: draft Russell, sign Robin Lopez and Greg Monroe
...you get the idea.
Im not concerned with Melo's timeframe. For "his sake" Im trying to add 3 impact guys. 2 via FA and 1 in the draft. If we can execute on that Knicks will be competitive next year. Good for Melo. That being said Melo doesnt dictate the moves, aside from his role on the team.
The Boston example doesn't help. By the time those 3 vets were in their 13th seasons, things were going rapidly downhill for the team.
I do think the posters here are right that we'd have to get something better than Dragic in a trade though.
they won 60 games with a rookie Rondo and the other "big 3" at ages 30-31-32. How old was Duncan when Lenard was drafted? Whats your point? That you cant blend old and young players?
Im not trading a pick for Dragic.
BRIGGS wrote:Im passing
Same here. I can't see any big moves being made until the draft order is known. If the Knicks get the number one overall they choose OK4 then Dragic would make some sense. But if the Knicks end up picking 2nd or below then I can see them taking Mudiay, Russell which play the same position as Dragic. Unless Towns would be picked in that case then Dragic makes sense. If the Knicks miss out in Towns and Ok4 then I don't see dragic making sense since the Knicks will be picking same position player in Russell or Mudiay.
Knicks are probably better off being a trade facilitator with their trade exceptions and open roster spot. Maybe they can land a second round pick or pick up a young guy that is cut for cap space to facilitate a trade. It seems like the other suitors for Dragic have a lot more to offer.
fishmike wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:fishmike wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:fishmike wrote:a few things...
1)why is there any assumption that we would get Plumlee? The Suns have said they need more size
2)Im not trading a pick for a guy I have to pay as well
3)they can take Calderon or any other mix of players on the current roster NO PICK
That basically means not adding anyone valuable through trades.
Do you want to keep both Melo and the player we draft. Objectively speaking, how likely is it that a rookie and a 13 year veteran will end up being in their primes at the same time?
Very likely. For example Boston won 60+ games with Rondo as a rookie and Ray/KG/Pierce all in their 30s. Has KLeanard helped the Spurs in his rookie contract? We could do this all day.The Knicks need an infusion of quality youth. Also there are at least 2 players (OK4/Russell) at the top of this draft with right out of the box NBA skill sets.
I would like to add 3 impact rotation/starters this offseason. We will start with the draft and sign two others.
Example: draft OK4, sign Robin Lopez and Dragic
Example: draft Russell, sign Robin Lopez and Greg Monroe
...you get the idea.
Im not concerned with Melo's timeframe. For "his sake" Im trying to add 3 impact guys. 2 via FA and 1 in the draft. If we can execute on that Knicks will be competitive next year. Good for Melo. That being said Melo doesnt dictate the moves, aside from his role on the team.
The Boston example doesn't help. By the time those 3 vets were in their 13th seasons, things were going rapidly downhill for the team.
I do think the posters here are right that we'd have to get something better than Dragic in a trade though.
they won 60 games with a rookie Rondo and the other "big 3" at ages 30-31-32. How old was Duncan when Lenard was drafted? Whats your point? That you cant blend old and young players?Im not trading a pick for Dragic.
That was when the Celtics' vets were in their 10th seasons and had much less wear and tear and signs of aging then Melo. So they had more time to maximize those guys' prime years with their lotto pick.
My point is that a half starphuck, half rebuild strategy is unlikely to work. I didn't say impossible, though, and obviously things worked out well for the Spurs.
Yeah, I agreed about not trading the pick for Dragic though.
yellowboy90 wrote:If the Knicks gave up their pick for Dragic would you be okay as a fan if it was lottery protected?
No, because if we're giving up 1st rounders I'd rather we just traded for Lowry last season! All we have to do from this day forward is not trade 1st rounders EVER- we always regret it.
