Knicks · "Meanwhile, Back At The Triangle Ranch..." (page 2)

Reading what JR wrote and looking at preferred styles around the league, I actually think the biggest problem with running this type of system is the lack of fundamentals around the league. Looking at games around the league you see more bonehead plays than ever. Many players these days are great athletes that just happen to play basketball and don't seem to understand how to play.

Related side note, JR can say whatever he wants but as he has already admitted his biggest problem here was he couldn't show up to a game not hungover or still half in the bag.

He Crazy

smackeddog wrote:It is a player commenting, but on the other hand that player is JR Smith

smackeddog - of course, JR Smith has made some suspect decisions on and off the court. Dennis Rodman's trademark is crazy stuff and dressing like a woman. Still, Rodman understood the angles and was a doctoral candidate on the basketball court. To be a professional basketball player JR Smith knows something about the game and the fraternity of players.

JR Smith's opinion may not be a solo voice in the locker room.

misterearl wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:
Which came first??..I think they knew Woodson was done in December..The two juveniles on the roster then acted out knowing he was a lame duck...Could be both too..

I don't know. I think they knew Woodson was done when Grunwald was let go and then Woodson was forced to keep Chris over a much needed big. Quite a fiasco last year. Glad they are gone.

CrushALot - appreciate your perspective as always. Did JR Smith wield enough influence over Grunwald to force the Knicks to keep his brother on the roster?

Or did Dolan overrule Grunwald on roster decisions, as he did Walsh with Denver negotiations, losing Mozgov in the process?

Bravo!

Here's the thing about the Triangle and JR's lack of understanding of it. NOTHING in the Triangle prohibits pushing the ball. In fact the offense specifically calls for pushing the ball and looking for early offense. Only if there's nothing there do you set up the half court offense.

Phil Jackson:

I want the offense to flow from rebound to fast break, to quick offense, to a system of offense. The defenses in the NBA are so good because the players are so big, quick, and well coached. Add the pressure that the 24-second clock rule applies to the offense to find a good shot, and the defense gets even better.

Phil's a smart guy and he's got a great system. Does it require stars? Yes, but what successful system doesn't? Not all the guys on those great Bulls and Lakeer teams were superstars. There were roleplayers too like Rodman and Kerr.

The main thing is to have the right players, and players willing to faith and implement the system.

Bonn1997 wrote:

misterearl wrote:The idea

gunsnewing wrote:Worked pretty well for JORDAN & Kobe.

I'm guessing one of the reasons there isn't much running is so that they conserve their energy and every movement they make has a purpose

At least thats the idea

Find and sign the next Michael Jordan or Kobe Bryant and we good. piece of cake.

Print the tickets to the Finals!

It doesn't have to be Jordan. I think players at the David Robinson and Tim Duncan level would be good enough.

Jordan and Pippin got plenty of transition points. I'm guessing we don't because we don't control the boards, create a lot of turnovers or possess a ball handler who can push it constitently.

BigDaddyG wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

misterearl wrote:The idea

gunsnewing wrote:Worked pretty well for JORDAN & Kobe.

I'm guessing one of the reasons there isn't much running is so that they conserve their energy and every movement they make has a purpose

At least thats the idea

Find and sign the next Michael Jordan or Kobe Bryant and we good. piece of cake.

Print the tickets to the Finals!

It doesn't have to be Jordan. I think players at the David Robinson and Tim Duncan level would be good enough.

Jordan and Pippin got plenty of transition points. I'm guessing we don't because we don't control the boards, create a lot of turnovers or possess a ball handler who can push it constitently.

Everyone will see that once we actually bring in better players they will be able to exploit the openings in the offense more effectively than the players we have now. It's not that we aren't getting the shots, but that the players we have aren't good enough to actually score efficiently. Some are still developing and others simply aren't talented enough. The offensive system is not the problem. We don't need 15 All Stars, but you have to have some starting level talent at least.

mreinman wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:You agree that they can go to hell. That's pretty harsh man

I think that they just went from hell to heaven

I just got that. Nice. Very true!

The chant From The Blue Seats

StraightShot wrote:Phil's a smart guy and he's got a great system. Does it require stars? Yes, but what successful system doesn't? Not all the guys on those great Bulls and Laker teams were superstars. There were roleplayers too like Rodman and Kerr.

The main thing is to have the right players, and players willing to faith and implement the system.

StraightShot - your basketball posts border on condescending. The points you make are elementary, at best. Most people who post here have a very sophisticated understanding of basketball. They understand the roles played on championship teams.

In your opinion, what specific skill sets comprise the "right" players on defense?

misterearl wrote: If you’re a freelance player who likes to play up and down, it’s not going to suit your game. If you like to play in the halfcourt and move the ball and sacrifice, it is your situation."

- JR. Smith

Fire away. Just remember, this is not a fan, but a player comment.

Why can't you run in the triangle if you have an opportunity?

Think Smith would be able to play on San Antonio??

"Move the ball and sacrifice"... seem to recall a Knicks' team that won a couple of titles playing like this... I could be wrong though, as I'm getting old.

It's painful and simple- JR and Shumpert are great as 4th and 6th most important players on the team- I would have waited it out with them if there was not return in a trade- even if it was ugly who cares it's still ugly- it is rubbing it in our face to see it work right- it hurts- orange and blue blood all over my shirt

misterearl wrote:Funny

“Funny we’re in the situation we’re in... Tyson in Dallas playing well, me and Shump here playing well. We weren’t the fit they were looking for. Hopefully they find it." - JR.

(Mozgov, Trevor Ariza, David Lee, Zach Randolph, Jamal Crawford, Wilson Chandler, jeremy Lin, Pablo Prigioni...)

The Knicks lead the league in former players on other rosters. Think about that.

So freaking true

JR's partying, supension, and the funny shoelace gate was a true commitment from a great player.

JR looking good next to Lebron, Uncle Drew and his buddy Wes.............

JR was given the keys a few times to show his character and earn a better wage. He didn't step up.

The kid has the talent and will do well in a situation where he is not called to lead.

Leadership Does Not Come From The Head Coach

Nalod wrote:JR's partying, supension, and the funny shoelace gate was a true commitment from a great player.

JR looking good next to Lebron, Uncle Drew and his buddy Wes.............

JR was given the keys a few times to show his character and earn a better wage. He didn't step up.

The kid has the talent and will do well in a situation where he is not called to lead.

In the sixties, When the Knicks locker room could have fractured over issues of race, Bill Bradley stepped up and reminded young players that divisive behavior would not be tolerated.

When Cazzie struggled with playing understudy to Bradley and created a distraction, Willis Reed consoled and guided him.

When Earl Monroe arrived from Baltimore, Clyde adjusted his game to make room for a prodigious talent playing the identical position. Two point guards? Piece of cake. Clyde understood, without the press telling him it would never work.

JR ran crazy in New York because there was no leader on the court or in the locker room to demand that he conform to the Knicks way of doing things. Lebron runs the Cavs. Jordan ran the Bulls. Larry Bird was known as the traffic cop in Boston.

Great teams are not led by coaches. They are led by great players.

Leadership happens away from the lights, the press and apart from the coaching staff.

Exactly the reason why the followers who delude themselves into believing transformation from 10 wins to The Finals is as simple as a draft pick and some free agents. Draft picks do not have a voice in the locker room and free agents will have to create an intimate and respected leadership on the fly.

If you are ever in an NBA locker room, note how often the coaching staff is absent. Leadership does NOT come an offensive scheme or X's and O's... Leadership comes from the respected voice(s) in the locker room. In an airport waiting area, at the hotel restaurant. During practice, away from the action,

Without veteran continuity, there is no leadership. That is a stone cold fact.

We are a bunch of guys playing pickup ball.

Knicks1969 wrote:

misterearl wrote:Funny

“Funny we’re in the situation we’re in... Tyson in Dallas playing well, me and Shump here playing well. We weren’t the fit they were looking for. Hopefully they find it." - JR.

(Mozgov, Trevor Ariza, David Lee, Zach Randolph, Jamal Crawford, Wilson Chandler, jeremy Lin, Pablo Prigioni...)

The Knicks lead the league in former players on other rosters. Think about that.

So freaking true

Damn. I would take a lineup of Lin, Jamal Cawford, Trevor Ariza, Zach Randolph, Mozgov over what we have had in the past years. Hell through in Melo as startng SF or 6th man and you have a playoff team every year at least.

Knicks1969 wrote:

misterearl wrote:Funny

“Funny we’re in the situation we’re in... Tyson in Dallas playing well, me and Shump here playing well. We weren’t the fit they were looking for. Hopefully they find it." - JR.

(Mozgov, Trevor Ariza, David Lee, Zach Randolph, Jamal Crawford, Wilson Chandler, jeremy Lin, Pablo Prigioni...)

The Knicks lead the league in former players on other rosters. Think about that.

So freaking true

the unfolding true episodes of mr.the-earl-can-is-now-half-full:

Landry Fields, Jerome James, Eddy Curry, Toney Douglas, Chris Duhon, Josh Harrelson, Kelvin Cato, Mardy Collins, Nate Robinson, Renaldo Balkman, Anthony Randolph, Steve Francis, Stephon Marbury, Fred Jones, Quentin Richardson, Al Harrington, Darko Milicic, Ray Felton...

Think about the other side as well, answerman. Sophisticates normally analyze both sides of an equation. Even when their team stinks like used toilet paper.

Vertigo

jrodmc - high or low quality, the number of former Knicks who have spun through our revolving door makes one dizzy.

misterearl wrote:Vertigo

jrodmc - high or low quality, the number of former Knicks who have spun through our revolving door makes one dizzy.

and there is an easy to see reason. I mean turnover of Knick players is the same as the turnover in the front office. Are you saying its just more of the same with Phil here? Thats possible but doesnt he get a year at least? Im not even advocating that Phil will succeed. Im not sure if he will or not, but he's got a top draft pick and $30mm plus in cap space to execute on. Dont we at least get to see how he manages that and what the product is next fall? Or is that just silly fan talk?

History Lesson

fishmike - if Uncle Phil is able to block out the siren call of the west coast, and lasts more than two years working in the Garden of Good and Terrible (which would put him at the ripe age of 73) it would be remarkable. If Phil's legacy is threatened, by any hint of second-guessing, he will rise in a nanosecond.

Donnie Walsh took over at 69 years old and decided he was too old for Dolan meddling in his affairs.

The older one gets, does one really need the hassle?

misterearl wrote:History Lesson

fishmike - if Uncle Phil is able to block out the siren call of the west coast, and lasts more than two years working in the Garden of Good and Terrible (which would put him at the ripe age of 73) it would be remarkable. If Phil's legacy is threatened, by any hint of second-guessing, he will rise in a nanosecond.

Donnie Walsh took over at 69 years old and decided he was too old for Dolan meddling in his affairs.

The older one gets, does one really need the hassle?

I honestly think that Dolan is done meddling. It's all about Phil and his staff now. Dolan knows what is getting ready to happen with the Draft and Free Agency. It will be painful siting thru the next couple of months watching the team lose but it may end up being all worth it. A high pick and some good Free Agent signings and this could be a totally different team going forward. Also it's not just about how good the team is next season. I keep reading from naysayers that we can't build a title team in one off season and that's not really the point. This is a process and it doesn't mean we have to have a title contender next year. We need to make substantive improvement and get this team on the right track for sustained success. It's key that Phil puts together a strong core that can easily be built upon.

misterearl wrote:History Lesson

fishmike - if Uncle Phil is able to block out the siren call of the west coast, and lasts more than two years working in the Garden of Good and Terrible (which would put him at the ripe age of 73) it would be remarkable. If Phil's legacy is threatened, by any hint of second-guessing, he will rise in a nanosecond.

Donnie Walsh took over at 69 years old and decided he was too old for Dolan meddling in his affairs.

The older one gets, does one really need the hassle?

Earl,

I'm trying to understand the meaning of this thread. Is it just more piling on to the "Dolan has ruined the Knicks" thread - or is it more of a shot at PJ and the triangle system? In either case - JR is just not a credible source. Sorry, he may be a professional BBall player - but he has certainly not showed to be a professional human being. In the quote from your original OP - JR cited that he is a Freestyle player which will not work in the triangle. By freestyle he really means selfish and someone who wants to use his 1-1 skills on the court rather then work within the confines of a team or system oriented approach. JR also blew his chance in NY to be one of the team leaders you speak that the Knicks sorely lack in a previous post. He has partied and smoked dope during the playoffs, been suspended multiple times, killed someone and got his brother on the team over another much more deserving player. He is immensely physically talented - but that does not make him immensely able to perform a cognitive analysis in his assessment of NBA rosters and offensive systems.

You have been piling on lately. Not quite sure why. Except for a few very rare exceptions, the Knicks have sucked for decades. The strip down of this roster to it's current meager tanking state, while not a perfect strip job....was certainly needed IMHO.......you have been a fan a looooooong time. What's a few more years? Rebirth always gives hope and that will start with the high draft pick.