Knicks · Dear Phil Jackson and Dereke Fisher (page 1)
We have no true PG signed other than a deteriorating Jose Calderon. IF you have no intentions of offering Andrea Bargnani a contract at all--why are you playing him material minutes? What value does it serve? IF we fall out of our current draft position and go below 4, we lose our ability to acquire a post player or PG that can have substantive value to our team going forward. Yes if we hold position we yield a HIGHLY probable chance at the possibility(actually I would put that at 100%). If we win games with players we INTEND to go forward with--so be it. If Andrea Bargnani averages 20 points a game which he is capable of doing while other teams realize it's time to play "secondary players" we could make a bad season even much worse by losing our great draft position. As a Knick fan of 42 years since I was 4--I know how pivotal it is to a FAN. You guys are paid at the end of the day you are not long term fans of the Knicks. Do WHAT is in OUR best INTERESTS the last 24 games and I don't have to spell it out for you--the team has done a fine job of it already.
Sincerely Any Knicks fan who cares about his or her team.
1. The very fact that they kept Bargs and wanted to see him take advantage of this opportunity to be a source of scoring is a very strong indicator that they would like to keep him around. However, they can't truly assess that unless they see him play significant minutes and prove that he can produce.
2. We're not officially tanking like Philly is. What we saw happen the last 2 games was about more than just Bargs. Many other players stepped up and performed at a higher level. It may be that there's a natural process of development going on and we may naturally find our selves winning more games and losing the top lottery position. These players have been working all this time to try and improve and that may be what is happening.
3. At this point what in particular are you suggesting the Knicks do with Bargs? They can't trade Bargs and just releasing him for no reason isn't an option. They literally have no choice but to let this play out. It seems to me that the most likely thing to happen if Bargs finishes the season healthy is for them to make some kind of offer to him for next year.
4. As for the Draft I think it's going a bit overboard to suggest that we can't get a player who can help this team after pick 4. There are a good number of quality prospects in this draft. IMO all the way out to 10-12 there could be very good players we can pick up. It's impossible to predict just how good players will be in the NBA and every year guys later in the draft turn out to be much better players than their draft position would suggest.
nixluva wrote:I have all kind so problems with this post.1. The very fact that they kept Bargs and wanted to see him take advantage of this opportunity to be a source of scoring is a very strong indicator that they would like to keep him around. However, they can't truly assess that unless they see him play significant minutes and prove that he can produce.
2. We're not officially tanking like Philly is. What we saw happen the last 2 games was about more than just Bargs. Many other players stepped up and performed at a higher level. It may be that there's a natural process of development going on and we may naturally find our selves winning more games and losing the top lottery position. These players have been working all this time to try and improve and that may be what is happening.
3. At this point what in particular are you suggesting the Knicks do with Bargs? They can't trade Bargs and just releasing him for no reason isn't an option. They literally have no choice but to let this play out. It seems to me that the most likely thing to happen if Bargs finishes the season healthy is for them to make some kind of offer to him for next year.
4. As for the Draft I think it's going a bit overboard to suggest that we can't get a player who can help this team after pick 4. There are a good number of quality prospects in this draft. IMO all the way out to 10-12 there could be very good players we can pick up. It's impossible to predict just how good players will be in the NBA and every year guys later in the draft turn out to be much better players than their draft position would suggest.
IF they have no
intention of keeping Bargnani then even 1 minute wasted on him as an active player is one to many. We have less than .001% probability of making the playoffs this year--so if we use logic--that is no longer a goal or reality. Logic dictates we play the guys we feel will move forward with us and the fact that we are undermanned in the post will keep us on track to higher draft odds, the only thing this season has any meaning for. I value the next ten years much more so than the last 24 games that have absolutely 0 value other than observation of player development. The correct move would've been to RELEASE Bargnani after the All star break. There is a high majority opinion that the draft falls WAY off after pick #4. Because we were stupid enough to not put any protection on the Bargnani trade--we have NO draft in 2016. With restricted free agency and a climbing cap--it give teams HIGH incentive to keep good players--making it aht much more difficult to find and sign players. The draft is crucial and while every team may win games--no one "tanks it" but they do go into development mode and by playing Bargnani major minutes--it could materially affect our W_L record in terms of draft seeding. I urge the Knicks to deactivate Bargnani and go into the D league for replacement IF they have no intention of keeping him.
BRIGGS wrote:nixluva wrote:I have all kind so problems with this post.1. The very fact that they kept Bargs and wanted to see him take advantage of this opportunity to be a source of scoring is a very strong indicator that they would like to keep him around. However, they can't truly assess that unless they see him play significant minutes and prove that he can produce.
2. We're not officially tanking like Philly is. What we saw happen the last 2 games was about more than just Bargs. Many other players stepped up and performed at a higher level. It may be that there's a natural process of development going on and we may naturally find our selves winning more games and losing the top lottery position. These players have been working all this time to try and improve and that may be what is happening.
3. At this point what in particular are you suggesting the Knicks do with Bargs? They can't trade Bargs and just releasing him for no reason isn't an option. They literally have no choice but to let this play out. It seems to me that the most likely thing to happen if Bargs finishes the season healthy is for them to make some kind of offer to him for next year.
4. As for the Draft I think it's going a bit overboard to suggest that we can't get a player who can help this team after pick 4. There are a good number of quality prospects in this draft. IMO all the way out to 10-12 there could be very good players we can pick up. It's impossible to predict just how good players will be in the NBA and every year guys later in the draft turn out to be much better players than their draft position would suggest.
IF they have no
intention of keeping Bargnani then even 1 minute wasted on him as an active player is one to many. We have less than .001% probability of making the playoffs this year--so if we use logic--that is no longer a goal or reality. Logic dictates we play the guys we feel will move forward with us and the fact that we are undermanned in the post will keep us on track to higher draft odds, the only thing this season has any meaning for. I value the next ten years much more so than the last 24 games that have absolutely 0 value other than observation of player development. The correct move would've been to RELEASE Bargnani after the All star break. There is a high majority opinion that the draft falls WAY off after pick #4. Because we were stupid enough to not put any protection on the Bargnani trade--we have NO draft in 2016. With restricted free agency and a climbing cap--it give teams HIGH incentive to keep good players--making it aht much more difficult to find and sign players. The draft is crucial and while every team may win games--no one "tanks it" but they do go into development mode and by playing Bargnani major minutes--it could materially affect our W_L record in terms of draft seeding. I urge the Knicks to deactivate Bargnani and go into the D league for replacement IF they have no intention of keeping him.
I still don't understand the point since they waited all this time to play Bargs when they could easily have worked out a buyout. Doesn't it only make sense that they see him as a player they could bring back? The Knicks very clearly aren't worried about their draft position. If they were they would've let Bargs go.
They KNOW that Bargs is the one guy who has the talent to give them some of the scoring they lost with Melo being out. They've said as much openly. This means they were trying to win games or at least be very competitive. The same goes for bringing in Shved. They didn't have to do that, but felt he could give them something and also be a possible player they could bring back. The Knicks are not trying to tank or even go into full developmental mode.
What this tells me is that they're not putting all their eggs in the Draft basket. They want to develop players on the team now and look to Free Agency to find PROVEN talent they can depend on going forward. It seems crystal clear to me that this is their thinking. The Knicks are trying to start the rebuilding process right now. It's clear they look at the draft as only one part of the overall process and not the whole shebang.
What briggs is saying in nut shell, Please stop developing these players, please stop developing the coaching staff, we want them to get it wrong every night, so come next season, they will still have that losing mentality.
This not the time for galloway to build his confidence, we need galloway to miss those clutch shots, we need for these players to take 6 ft's in a game, not 25, they'll win like that, and we can't have that now. If galloway AB, and Shved look like they can thrive in this system, well that's terrible, Who needs those guys learning how to win, it best to bring 12 new guys and see if they can play in the system.
Doesn't make sense to keep guys who have played and had some success, nooooo way, we don't won't those types right briggs?
SMDH
What briggs is saying in nut shell, Please stop developing these players, please stop developing the coaching staff, we want them to get it wrong every night, so come next season, they will still have that losing mentality.
This not the time for galloway to build his confidence, we need galloway to miss those clutch shots, we need for these players to take 6 ft's in a game, not 25, they'll win like that, and we can't have that now. If galloway AB, and Shved look like they can thrive in this system, well that's terrible, Who needs those guys learning how to win, it best to bring 12 new guys and see if they can play in the system.
Doesn't make sense to keep guys who have played and had some success, nooooo way, we don't won't those types right briggs?
SMDH
What briggs is saying in nut shell, Please stop developing these players, please stop developing the coaching staff, we want them to get it wrong every night, so come next season, they will still have that losing mentality.
This not the time for galloway to build his confidence, we need galloway to miss those clutch shots, we need for these players to take 6 ft's in a game, not 25, they'll win like that, and we can't have that now. If galloway AB, and Shved look like they can thrive in this system, well that's terrible, Who needs those guys learning how to win, it best to bring 12 new guys and see if they can play in the system.
Doesn't make sense to keep guys who have played and had some success, nooooo way, we don't won't those types right briggs?
SMDH
gunsnewing wrote:San Antonio, Cleveland & Miami weren't worried about players developing a loser mentality when they went full tank for Duncan, Lebron & Wade
We are not in full tank mode. We are trying to win every game possible.....which worries me even more..also if the knicks do not plan to bring bargs back then they have to honor his contract and play him.....This is a business. ...not a video game. If they want to keep him....they wouldve shut him down like melo did. Obviously only melo is definitely coming back.....everybody else must play per their contract. For this reason is why players have agents. Bargs and others are auditioning for a job next year....with or without the knicks. Its laughable to think you can just stop playong somebody because you want the best position in the draft.....what about the players that need to pay bills and look out for their own future.....come on knick fans....put your feet in their shoes for once.....
gunsnewing wrote:San Antonio, Cleveland & Miami weren't worried about players developing a loser mentality when they went full tank for Duncan, Lebron & Wade
You have to acknowledge that all of these situations are different. In our case we don't have a pick in 2016 and can't just take a blasé approach to rebuilding the team. We have a ton of guys to evaluate on this roster and so they can't just abdicate their duties as coaches and players. They have to actually keep doing their jobs.
Phil wasn't kidding when he was talking about Bargs possibly surprising people. He felt the guy would fit the system. So as much as people want to bash him for how idiots like JR didn't work out, he was right about the kind of players he feels can work and that is being demonstrated on a lower level right now. These players were showing what they can do in this system. It doesn't matter right now how many of them have a contract here for next year. If the prove they belong they'll be offered a contract.
I think Bargs could be one of those players. We'll see how things go the rest of the way. But get used to the idea that we may not end up with the top lottery spot. The Knicks aren't in full tank mode like Philly is. My guess is that we'll fall back a spot or 2 by the time this is all said and done. People thought the Knicks were the worst team in the NBA and perhaps in history but Hinkie has made sure that Philly will be that team.
knicks1248 wrote:I agree with NIXWhat briggs is saying in nut shell, Please stop developing these players, please stop developing the coaching staff, we want them to get it wrong every night, so come next season, they will still have that losing mentality.
This not the time for galloway to build his confidence, we need galloway to miss those clutch shots, we need for these players to take 6 ft's in a game, not 25, they'll win like that, and we can't have that now. If galloway AB, and Shved look like they can thrive in this system, well that's terrible, Who needs those guys learning how to win, it best to bring 12 new guys and see if they can play in the system.
Doesn't make sense to keep guys who have played and had some success, nooooo way, we don't won't those types right briggs?
SMDH
No I didnt say that--read it again. I said I think if we are "developing players" and we have NO intention of bring back Bargnanai--then we should deactivate him for the good of the team long term. Although some people do not understand Bargnani IS a 20 pt NBA scorer capable of putting a team on his back--ESPECIALLY when playing for a paycheck. If he scores 20 a night we are more likely to win. I have no problem winning with developing players. But if we win meaningless games with Bargnani leading the way--then its self-destructive. And be--we don't owe Bargnani anything. Hes not going to get 2-3mm hes going to get in the neighborhood of 6mm next year. And he may get that riding our teams back while winning a few extra games which in turn helps us move our odds for ok4 and Towns down a great deal. So where is the logic?
LA Lakers 16 42 .276 30 ½ 9-20 7-22 2-9 7-30 99.6 106.1 -6.4 Lost 1 3-7
Minnesota 13 45 .224 33 ½ 8-22 5-23 2-7 5-29 97.7 105.5 -7.8 Lost 2 5-5
Philadelphia 13 47 .217 34 ½ 8-21 5-26 1-11 9-29 90.3 100.8 -10.5 Lost 2 2-8
New York 12 46 .207 34 ½ 8-21 4-25 4-7 8-30 93.0 100.9 -7.9 Won 2 2-8
gunsnewing wrote:San Antonio, Cleveland & Miami weren't worried about players developing a loser mentality when they went full tank for Duncan, Lebron & Wade
Majority of those roosters came back because they had proven VETS, and those teams won at least 20 games.
TPercy wrote:Why not do combine and do both?
That's what i've been saying. It's a delicate balance of player development and at that same time not going all out to win as if they're making the playoffs or something. I think they know this team ins't strong enough to really win so much that they'll get out of the top of lottery. I don't think tho that the Knicks will lose more than the Sixers who are clearly tanking hard and not setup to win. As for the players on this team that will be brought back I think they do intend to try and keep Bargs. He's not old and if he can get his body right he can be a good player in this system.
We've got too many young players that need more development to just stop trying. These last 2 games have been good for the young players development. The Knicks are going to lose games they aren't good enough to really win enough to totally ruin their lotto spot, but I just think Philly is so bad now that we'll win more than them.
the games against the twolves, lakers and the two against the sixers will probably decide the order in some fashion... we cannot win any of those games...
i see us falling behind the sixers but ahead of the twolves and lakers which isn't bad... falling behind either of those teams would be HORRIBLE... the #5 or 6 pick coupled with the fact that i don't trust the knicks picking the right player that far down the draft i am going to be depressed...
FistOfOakley wrote:we will probably lose out to the sixers for the top(bottom) spot as they will try to suit up the mascot, kevin hart and the hot dog vendor in our two games against them....the games against the twolves, lakers and the two against the sixers will probably decide the order in some fashion... we cannot win any of those games...
i see us falling behind the sixers but ahead of the twolves and lakers which isn't bad... falling behind either of those teams would be HORRIBLE... the #5 or 6 pick coupled with the fact that i don't trust the knicks picking the right player that far down the draft i am going to be depressed...
I would trust them with a lower pick. The reason is that They will be looking for a highly skilled player. It likely won't be a reach. Also remember that any pick that high is gonna still put the team in position to take a quality player. There are more than 5-6 good players in this draft IMO.
# Team W L WL% GB L10 Streak Worst Case Balls #1 % Mock Draft Salary
1 New York 12 46 .207 0.0 2-8 Won 2 36 wins, pick #15 250 25.0 Jahlil Okafor $4,750,000
2 Philadelphia 13 47 .217 0.0 2-8 Lost 2 35 wins, pick #12 199 19.9 Karl Towns $4,250,000
3 Minnesota 13 46 .220 0.5 4-6 Lost 3 36 wins, pick #15 156 15.6 D'Angelo Russell $3,820,000
4 LA Lakers 16 42 .276 4.0 3-7 Lost 1 40 wins, pick #16 119 11.9 Emmanuel Mudiay $3,440,000
5 Orlando 19 42 .311 5.5 4-6 Lost 3 40 wins, pick #16 88 8.8 Stanley Johnson $3,120,000
6 Denver 20 39 .339 7.5 1-9 Lost 6 43 wins, pick #16 63 6.3 Mario Hezonja $2,830,000
7 Sacramento 20 37 .351 8.5 3-7 Lost 2 45 wins, pick #17 43 4.3 Willie Cauley-Stein $2,590,000
8 Detroit 23 36 .390 10.5 4-6 Lost 3 46 wins, pick #18 28 2.8 Kristaps Porzingis $2,370,000
9 Utah 23 35 .397 11.0 6-4 Won 2 47 wins, pick #19 17 1.7 Justise Winslow $2,180,000
10 Boston 23 34 .404 11.5 6-4 Lost 1 48 wins, pick #19 11 1.1 Myles Turner $2,070,000
11 Charlotte 24 33 .421 12.5 4-6 Won 1 49 wins, pick #19 8 0.8 Kelly Oubre $1,960,000
12 Indiana 25 34 .424 12.5 8-2 Won 2 48 wins, pick #19 7 0.7 Frank Kaminsky $1,870,000
13 Phoenix 31 30 .508 17.5 3-7 Lost 2 52 wins, pick #23 6 0.6 Kevon Looney $1,770,000
14 New Orleans Houston 32 28 .533 19.0 5-5 Lost 1 54 wins, pick #25 5 0.5 Devin Booker $1,680,000
From DraftExpress.com http://www.draftexpress.com#ixzz3TIh9LnA1
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