yellowboy90 wrote:I said a while ago that if Shaw was smart he would join the staff. It would probably be the quickest way to getting a HC gig. In Indy he was praised as a great developer of talent.If Phil is smart he his talking to Fisher now about adding him to the staff to work with Gallo, THjr, and Early.
Also, if Thin a get fired I would raid his staff to help on D.
I think there is a limit to how many coaches a team can hire. I could be wrong
Knicks1969 wrote:yellowboy90 wrote:I said a while ago that if Shaw was smart he would join the staff. It would probably be the quickest way to getting a HC gig. In Indy he was praised as a great developer of talent.If Phil is smart he his talking to Fisher now about adding him to the staff to work with Gallo, THjr, and Early.
Also, if Thin a get fired I would raid his staff to help on D.
I think there is a limit to how many coaches a team can hire. I could be wrong
I do not believe there is unless they changed it. I remember Dallas Maverick employing several coached in the past.
Also, Shaw was lauded in Indy for helping their defensive principles which is something the knicks really need.
Then Phil needs to employ this dude ASAP. Let him work with Carmelo hands on. He must be good, because he was instrumental in helping to develop Kobe and Paul George
Shaw needs to be our headcoach next season. I am not sold on fisher at all. I am trying really hard to find a reason to tolerate him, but I continue to see nothing positive. Shaw in my opinion is the only Phil disciple who can win teaching/coaching the triangle. Reassign fisher to replace Mills, because Fisher is well respected around the league, and use Shaw as headcoach.
Knicks1969 wrote:Shaw needs to be our headcoach next season. I am not sold on fisher at all. I am trying really hard to find a reason to tolerate him, but I continue to see nothing positive. Shaw in my opinion is the only Phil disciple who can win teaching/coaching the triangle. Reassign fisher to replace Mills, because Fisher is well respected around the league, and use Shaw as headcoach.
wow... just wow.
Knicks1969 wrote:Shaw needs to be our headcoach next season. I am not sold on fisher at all. I am trying really hard to find a reason to tolerate him, but I continue to see nothing positive. Shaw in my opinion is the only Phil disciple who can win teaching/coaching the triangle. Reassign fisher to replace Mills, because Fisher is well respected around the league, and use Shaw as headcoach.
Perhaps Shaw is not a talented communicator or leader of Men. Just cuz he may be good at some things like teaching doesn't mean he's great at handling a group of men and bringing them together as a team. Don't be so sure that Shaw is better than Fish as a Head Coach. You literally have ZERO evidence that Shaw is a better Head Coach than Fish.
nixluva wrote:Knicks1969 wrote:Shaw needs to be our headcoach next season. I am not sold on fisher at all. I am trying really hard to find a reason to tolerate him, but I continue to see nothing positive. Shaw in my opinion is the only Phil disciple who can win teaching/coaching the triangle. Reassign fisher to replace Mills, because Fisher is well respected around the league, and use Shaw as headcoach.
Perhaps Shaw is not a talented communicator or leader of Men. Just cuz he may be good at some things like teaching doesn't mean he's great at handling a group of men and bringing them together as a team. Don't be so sure that Shaw is better than Fish as a Head Coach. You literally have ZERO evidence that Shaw is a better Head Coach than Fish.
With Phil as his supporter, all will be well. I wanted to see some of what Shaw was doing in Fisher in the beginning. He was not very demanding when it comes to his dealing with Carmelo. If he were, all the other dudes would have followed and forced to play and adapt. Shaw as headcoach would not take it easy on Carmelo
Knicks1969 wrote:nixluva wrote:Knicks1969 wrote:Shaw needs to be our headcoach next season. I am not sold on fisher at all. I am trying really hard to find a reason to tolerate him, but I continue to see nothing positive. Shaw in my opinion is the only Phil disciple who can win teaching/coaching the triangle. Reassign fisher to replace Mills, because Fisher is well respected around the league, and use Shaw as headcoach.
Perhaps Shaw is not a talented communicator or leader of Men. Just cuz he may be good at some things like teaching doesn't mean he's great at handling a group of men and bringing them together as a team. Don't be so sure that Shaw is better than Fish as a Head Coach. You literally have ZERO evidence that Shaw is a better Head Coach than Fish.
With Phil as his supporter, all will be well. I wanted to see some of what Shaw was doing in Fisher in the beginning. He was not very demanding when it comes to his dealing with Carmelo. If he were, all the other dudes would have followed and forced to play and adapt. Shaw as headcoach would not take it easy on Carmelo
You do realize that Shaw was just fired right? How did his tactics work in his last job? Have you read the articles written about how his team received his methods? I think you should o some research before you assume that Shaw has the right approach and Fish doesn't. Being a Head Coach is a complicated job. It's surely more than being tough with a player or just X's and O's. It's hard to quantify why some coaches are successful in connecting with players and leading men.
nixluva wrote:Knicks1969 wrote:nixluva wrote:Knicks1969 wrote:Shaw needs to be our headcoach next season. I am not sold on fisher at all. I am trying really hard to find a reason to tolerate him, but I continue to see nothing positive. Shaw in my opinion is the only Phil disciple who can win teaching/coaching the triangle. Reassign fisher to replace Mills, because Fisher is well respected around the league, and use Shaw as headcoach.
Perhaps Shaw is not a talented communicator or leader of Men. Just cuz he may be good at some things like teaching doesn't mean he's great at handling a group of men and bringing them together as a team. Don't be so sure that Shaw is better than Fish as a Head Coach. You literally have ZERO evidence that Shaw is a better Head Coach than Fish.
With Phil as his supporter, all will be well. I wanted to see some of what Shaw was doing in Fisher in the beginning. He was not very demanding when it comes to his dealing with Carmelo. If he were, all the other dudes would have followed and forced to play and adapt. Shaw as headcoach would not take it easy on Carmelo
You do realize that Shaw was just fired right? How did his tactics work in his last job? Have you read the articles written about how his team received his methods? I think you should o some research before you assume that Shaw has the right approach and Fish doesn't. Being a Head Coach is a complicated job. It's surely more than being tough with a player or just X's and O's. It's hard to quantify why some coaches are successful in connecting with players and leading men.
He was fired because te front office was not willing to support him. The front office was more willing to side with the players.....
Knicks1969 wrote:nixluva wrote:Knicks1969 wrote:Shaw needs to be our headcoach next season. I am not sold on fisher at all. I am trying really hard to find a reason to tolerate him, but I continue to see nothing positive. Shaw in my opinion is the only Phil disciple who can win teaching/coaching the triangle. Reassign fisher to replace Mills, because Fisher is well respected around the league, and use Shaw as headcoach.
Perhaps Shaw is not a talented communicator or leader of Men. Just cuz he may be good at some things like teaching doesn't mean he's great at handling a group of men and bringing them together as a team. Don't be so sure that Shaw is better than Fish as a Head Coach. You literally have ZERO evidence that Shaw is a better Head Coach than Fish.
With Phil as his supporter, all will be well. I wanted to see some of what Shaw was doing in Fisher in the beginning. He was not very demanding when it comes to his dealing with Carmelo.
Shaw as headcoach would not take it easy on Carmelo If he were, all the other dudes would have followed and forced to play and adapt.
This is where you lose cred with many.
Where do you base this from? How do you support your theory?
Nalod wrote:Knicks1969 wrote:nixluva wrote:Knicks1969 wrote:Shaw needs to be our headcoach next season. I am not sold on fisher at all. I am trying really hard to find a reason to tolerate him, but I continue to see nothing positive. Shaw in my opinion is the only Phil disciple who can win teaching/coaching the triangle. Reassign fisher to replace Mills, because Fisher is well respected around the league, and use Shaw as headcoach.
Perhaps Shaw is not a talented communicator or leader of Men. Just cuz he may be good at some things like teaching doesn't mean he's great at handling a group of men and bringing them together as a team. Don't be so sure that Shaw is better than Fish as a Head Coach. You literally have ZERO evidence that Shaw is a better Head Coach than Fish.
With Phil as his supporter, all will be well. I wanted to see some of what Shaw was doing in Fisher in the beginning. He was not very demanding when it comes to his dealing with Carmelo.
Shaw as headcoach would not take it easy on Carmelo If he were, all the other dudes would have followed and forced to play and adapt.
This is where you lose cred with many.
Where do you base this from? How do you support your theory?
Because Shaw did not take it easy on Kobe when he was top assistant coach under Phil; specifically, during the time when Kobe and Shaq couldn't find ways to co-exist. He then took his teaching skills to Indy and played a vital role in the tutelage of Paul George.
Knicks1969 wrote:Nalod wrote:Knicks1969 wrote:nixluva wrote:Knicks1969 wrote:Shaw needs to be our headcoach next season. I am not sold on fisher at all. I am trying really hard to find a reason to tolerate him, but I continue to see nothing positive. Shaw in my opinion is the only Phil disciple who can win teaching/coaching the triangle. Reassign fisher to replace Mills, because Fisher is well respected around the league, and use Shaw as headcoach.
Perhaps Shaw is not a talented communicator or leader of Men. Just cuz he may be good at some things like teaching doesn't mean he's great at handling a group of men and bringing them together as a team. Don't be so sure that Shaw is better than Fish as a Head Coach. You literally have ZERO evidence that Shaw is a better Head Coach than Fish.
With Phil as his supporter, all will be well. I wanted to see some of what Shaw was doing in Fisher in the beginning. He was not very demanding when it comes to his dealing with Carmelo.
Shaw as headcoach would not take it easy on Carmelo If he were, all the other dudes would have followed and forced to play and adapt.
This is where you lose cred with many.
Where do you base this from? How do you support your theory?
Because Shaw did not take it easy on Kobe when he was top assistant coach under Phil; specifically, during the time when Kobe and Shaq couldn't find ways to co-exist. He then took his teaching skills to Indy and played a vital role in the tutelage of Paul George.
Makes sense that Shaw would back Shaq. He and Shaq played for Orlando as rookies
hiring shaw would basically undermine fisher... it's a setup for failure for everyone involved... it didn't work with woodson/mda and it's even worse here...
FistOfOakley wrote:hiring shaw would basically undermine fisher... it's a setup for failure for everyone involved... it didn't work with woodson/mda and it's even worse here...
Why would it undermine Fisher? There are numerous former HCs who end up as ast coaches. Is woody undermining Rivers? Is Gentry undermining Kerr? Did MDA and Woodson have a prior relationship before they was forced together? Fisher and Shaw have a relationship.
yellowboy90 wrote:FistOfOakley wrote:hiring shaw would basically undermine fisher... it's a setup for failure for everyone involved... it didn't work with woodson/mda and it's even worse here...
Why would it undermine Fisher? There are numerous former HCs who end up as ast coaches. Is woody undermining Rivers? Is Gentry undermining Kerr? Did MDA and Woodson have a prior relationship before they was forced together? Fisher and Shaw have a relationship.
I would personally hate to have a job when there are 3 hawks waiting for me to fail so that they could swoop in. They have a chip on their shoulder and may not take well to some rookie coach with zero coaching experience.
Or maybe they are less of a threat since they are already tarnished.
mreinman wrote:yellowboy90 wrote:FistOfOakley wrote:hiring shaw would basically undermine fisher... it's a setup for failure for everyone involved... it didn't work with woodson/mda and it's even worse here...
Why would it undermine Fisher? There are numerous former HCs who end up as ast coaches. Is woody undermining Rivers? Is Gentry undermining Kerr? Did MDA and Woodson have a prior relationship before they was forced together? Fisher and Shaw have a relationship.
I would personally hate to have a job when there are 3 hawks waiting for me to fail so that they could swoop in. They have a chip on their shoulder and may not take well to some rookie coach with zero coaching experience.
Or maybe they are less of a threat since they are already tarnished.
I understand that in theory but that is almost every bench in the NBA. If you want to be comfortable I guess it would make sense to surround yourself with the Herb Williams of the world or you can go out a get coaches who had success developing talent as assistant coaches. I could see if Shaw was an established HC but he is not.
yellowboy90 wrote:mreinman wrote:yellowboy90 wrote:FistOfOakley wrote:hiring shaw would basically undermine fisher... it's a setup for failure for everyone involved... it didn't work with woodson/mda and it's even worse here...
Why would it undermine Fisher? There are numerous former HCs who end up as ast coaches. Is woody undermining Rivers? Is Gentry undermining Kerr? Did MDA and Woodson have a prior relationship before they was forced together? Fisher and Shaw have a relationship.
I would personally hate to have a job when there are 3 hawks waiting for me to fail so that they could swoop in. They have a chip on their shoulder and may not take well to some rookie coach with zero coaching experience.
Or maybe they are less of a threat since they are already tarnished.
I understand that in theory but that is almost every bench in the NBA. If you want to be comfortable I guess it would make sense to surround yourself with the Herb Williams of the world or you can go out a get coaches who had success developing talent as assistant coaches. I could see if Shaw was an established HC but he is not.
he may be young enough to get another shot really soon if fisher fails. Kurt Rambis is not taking over his job.
would love to have a young bball mind sitting on the bench who actually gets the modern game. A Fred Hoiberg type.
fisher is already a young unproven coach who's trying to find his way... shaw's name was already floated around with the knicks job... it really just signals to everyone involved how much confidence management has in the current head coach...
every successful long tenured head coach... they have the full backing of ownership/management etc.... that is the only way a head coach can succeed for any length of time.. jr smith put it best.. he was going to do whatever he wanted because he was going to be on the team longer than the coach.. and HE WAS RIGHT.... the reason why head coaches keep moving around is because ownership/management dgaf about coaches...
if you want fisher to succeed... you give him the job and make him the unquestioned leader... you should not do anything that jeopardizes that until you know he is no longer that guy...
I would love to add Shaw regardless, especially if we decide to go younger and focus on development, something he has proven he is able to do
Fisher just was not ready and prepared to be a Head Coach while Shaw has put in the time and is at least a solid lead assistant and development coach
FistOfOakley wrote:fisher is already a young unproven coach who's trying to find his way... shaw's name was already floated around with the knicks job... it really just signals to everyone involved how much confidence management has in the current head coach...every successful long tenured head coach... they have the full backing of ownership/management etc.... that is the only way a head coach can succeed for any length of time.. jr smith put it best.. he was going to do whatever he wanted because he was going to be on the team longer than the coach.. and HE WAS RIGHT.... the reason why head coaches keep moving around is because ownership/management dgaf about coaches...
if you want fisher to succeed... you give him the job and make him the unquestioned leader... you should not do anything that jeopardizes that until you know he is no longer that guy...
when is that? What if we win 30 games next year? His leash is not long, this is NY. Part of it is luck and he better get damn lucky. So far, not so lucky.
I think that if shaw was not already in denver then this job was his.
