Knicks · whats your time line for fisher (page 2)

knicks1248 wrote:this guy is being paid 1 million less then pop and he's the 4th highest paid coach in the league, 12 fckng wins, phill could have gotten any space cadet to coach 12 wins.

speaking of poppovich, why don't you or your 1969 brother tell me how many wins poppovich had in his first year as coach of the spurs. gasp! it was only 17! i guess pop had to learn somewhere too? im sure you would have been saying any "space cadet" could have more wins than him too. you guys are lost.

Didn't Bob Hill get fired at some point during that season and Pops took over? Still you gave a perfect analogy. I'm sure the same people would be calling for Pops head

I still blame Don't Chaney.

gunsnewing wrote:Didn't Bob Hill get fired at some point during that season and Pops took over? Still you gave a perfect analogy. I'm sure the same people would be calling for Pops head

yes, he took over for bob hill, but it doesn't matter. he still had to learn how to coach and the team had no players on it because david robinson was hurt. nobody knows if fisher is going to be a good coach, but saying he can't coach because the team has 12 wins when he's forced to start d-leaguers is beyond stupid.

knicks1248 wrote:this guy is being paid 1 million less then pop and he's the 4th highest paid coach in the league, 12 fckng wins, phill could have gotten any space cadet to coach 12 wins.

Then clearly you totally missed the entire point of why Phil wanted Fish. Shaw wasn't available and Kerr took another job. So Phil went with a young prospect.

1. Phil stated he didn't want a retread. He wanted a young fresh mind to tutor and guide.
2. He wanted a coach who could relate to the younger players and had an understanding of how they think.
3. He wanted a coach who had knowledge of the ways Phil himself coached and ran teams and of course the Triangle, but he would give that coach flexibility to make needed tweaks.

IMO you can't let the money cloud your thinking on why Phil wanted Fish. Fish was already very much a coach in the locker room and leader among players. Those qualities were important to Phil. Phil knew that Fish was inexperienced. He likely envisioned Fish growing into the job with the team and the timing was right since this 1st year wasn't going to be the end of the process but only the beginning.

nyk4ever wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Didn't Bob Hill get fired at some point during that season and Pops took over? Still you gave a perfect analogy. I'm sure the same people would be calling for Pops head

yes, he took over for bob hill, but it doesn't matter. he still had to learn how to coach and the team had no players on it because david robinson was hurt. nobody knows if fisher is going to be a good coach, but saying he can't coach because the team has 12 wins when he's forced to start d-leaguers is beyond stupid.

Yup Pops went 17-47. Grounds to be fired according to some.

Bill was fired after starting 3-15. The Great Greg Popovich was only able to win 17 out of 64 games with the Spurs tank squad. Even the Spurs tank squad would be these Knicks

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:this guy is being paid 1 million less then pop and he's the 4th highest paid coach in the league, 12 fckng wins, phill could have gotten any space cadet to coach 12 wins.

Then clearly you totally missed the entire point of why Phil wanted Fish. Shaw wasn't available and Kerr took another job. So Phil went with a young prospect.

1. Phil stated he didn't want a retread. He wanted a young fresh mind to tutor and guide.
2. He wanted a coach who could relate to the younger players and had an understanding of how they think.
3. He wanted a coach who had knowledge of the ways Phil himself coached and ran teams and of course the Triangle, but he would give that coach flexibility to make needed tweaks.

IMO you can't let the money cloud your thinking on why Phil wanted Fish. Fish was already very much a coach in the locker room and leader among players. Those qualities were important to Phil. Phil knew that Fish was inexperienced. He likely envisioned Fish growing into the job with the team and the timing was right since this 1st year wasn't going to be the end of the process but only the beginning.

Phil also wanted calderon to run the point, and thought he assemble a playoff roster before he gave that 60 days then tossed the plan. Phil also said it would take 45 to 47 wins to make the playoffs in the east, the current holder of the 8th seed is 10 games under .500

In other words, phil has been grossly wrong before.

knicks1248 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:this guy is being paid 1 million less then pop and he's the 4th highest paid coach in the league, 12 fckng wins, phill could have gotten any space cadet to coach 12 wins.

Then clearly you totally missed the entire point of why Phil wanted Fish. Shaw wasn't available and Kerr took another job. So Phil went with a young prospect.

1. Phil stated he didn't want a retread. He wanted a young fresh mind to tutor and guide.
2. He wanted a coach who could relate to the younger players and had an understanding of how they think.
3. He wanted a coach who had knowledge of the ways Phil himself coached and ran teams and of course the Triangle, but he would give that coach flexibility to make needed tweaks.

IMO you can't let the money cloud your thinking on why Phil wanted Fish. Fish was already very much a coach in the locker room and leader among players. Those qualities were important to Phil. Phil knew that Fish was inexperienced. He likely envisioned Fish growing into the job with the team and the timing was right since this 1st year wasn't going to be the end of the process but only the beginning.

Phil also wanted calderon to run the point, and thought he assemble a playoff roster before he gave that 60 days then tossed the plan. Phil also said it would take 45 to 47 wins to make the playoffs in the east, the current holder of the 8th seed is 10 games under .500

In other words, phil has been grossly wrong before.

"cut off a finger with each mistake!"

"Bring a winning coach, so when he fails, I can blame another!!!"

"Pop should have fired! I would have called for his head! Another in his place would have succeeded, all you need is a superstar, thus I am StarPhucheius, distant relative to captain obviouus!!!!"

newyorknewyork wrote:I still blame Don't Chaney.

Blame that firing on IT's ineptitude- didn't he let some comment slip in an interview that implied he was about to fire Chaney before he'd lined up a replacement coach, and then was left scrambling and picked the terrible Lenny Wilkins name out of thin air in a crisis meeting. Unbelievable! The hope at the time was for Mike Fratelli (or whatever his name was- the former Cavs coach), but somehow IT managed to piss him off or screw him over.

Thank God they didn't hire Fratello. Couldn't stsnd his 90s Cleveland teams. Wilkins was actually good here. Got us to the playoffs. Wasn't enough for the fans because they felt we should be better. Then Larry Brown took over and they found out the hard way that it was the roster. The genius roster Isiah put together

gunsnewing wrote:Thank God they didn't hire Fratello. Couldn't stsnd his 90s Cleveland teams. Wilkins was actually good here. Got us to the playoffs. Wasn't enough for the fans because they felt we should be better. Then Larry Brown took over and they found out the hard way that it was the roster. The genius roster Isiah put together

Good times!

I suspect most of the folk calling for Fish and Phil to be fired, weren't around back then

smackeddog wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Thank God they didn't hire Fratello. Couldn't stsnd his 90s Cleveland teams. Wilkins was actually good here. Got us to the playoffs. Wasn't enough for the fans because they felt we should be better. Then Larry Brown took over and they found out the hard way that it was the roster. The genius roster Isiah put together

Good times!

I suspect most of the folk calling for Fish and Phil to be fired, weren't around back then

the only coaches I wanted gone was chaney, woody and fishy

knicks1248 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:this guy is being paid 1 million less then pop and he's the 4th highest paid coach in the league, 12 fckng wins, phill could have gotten any space cadet to coach 12 wins.

Then clearly you totally missed the entire point of why Phil wanted Fish. Shaw wasn't available and Kerr took another job. So Phil went with a young prospect.

1. Phil stated he didn't want a retread. He wanted a young fresh mind to tutor and guide.
2. He wanted a coach who could relate to the younger players and had an understanding of how they think.
3. He wanted a coach who had knowledge of the ways Phil himself coached and ran teams and of course the Triangle, but he would give that coach flexibility to make needed tweaks.

IMO you can't let the money cloud your thinking on why Phil wanted Fish. Fish was already very much a coach in the locker room and leader among players. Those qualities were important to Phil. Phil knew that Fish was inexperienced. He likely envisioned Fish growing into the job with the team and the timing was right since this 1st year wasn't going to be the end of the process but only the beginning.

Phil also wanted calderon to run the point, and thought he assemble a playoff roster before he gave that 60 days then tossed the plan. Phil also said it would take 45 to 47 wins to make the playoffs in the east, the current holder of the 8th seed is 10 games under .500

In other words, phil has been grossly wrong before.

OK so you wanna be a DICK about it. How often do you think Phil has been "grossly wrong" in his entire career? Don't be silly just to try and make a point. If you're gonna skewer the man over the last few months don't you also have to include his entire career in basketball? The man has made a ton of decisions over the decades and they've mostly been correct. No disrespect but I'll take Phil's instincts over any armchair GM on this forum. No one is gonna pay you millions to run a Basketball franchise. These arguments are getting ridiculous now. Can we at the very least wait until he gets thru this summer before we declare the man a failure? I'm not suggesting Phil is infallible or that his moves will all work out. I just think he's a qualified as anyone to be given a chance to do this and see it thru more than just a few months on the job.

Fisher is pretty awful, but for the time being the talent is much worse. Fix the talent, if Fisher cant coach it, then he needs to go. And he doesnt need a full season either. You will be able to tell early on.

knickscity wrote:Fisher is pretty awful, but for the time being the talent is much worse. Fix the talent, if Fisher cant coach it, then he needs to go. And he doesnt need a full season either. You will be able to tell early on.

Not sure what you expect from Fish...
He can dress up for this Knicks and will be the best player on current active roster.
To me it looks that he making slow progress with in-game decisions and team management.
They start executing some sets and stick to strategies.
When not faced with overwhelming talent level (which will be rare games with today's NBA) they start looking competitive.
All this team need are 4 starters, 6th man, and 2-3 quality backups...

knickscity wrote:Fisher is pretty awful, but for the time being the talent is much worse. Fix the talent, if Fisher cant coach it, then he needs to go. And he doesnt need a full season either. You will be able to tell early on.

how is he awful? how about some examples of what you see him doing that's so awful?

Fisher was part of the reason the team couldn't get their crap together. The talent was mismatched to begin with and this wasn't a playoff team to start the season regardless of who coached. But Fisher accelerated the meltdown.

So, yeah he's been disastrous. Will he be as bad next year? Maybe.

His timeline is probably one half season after this. If the Knicks have Melo back + a good draft choice + a key free agent or two and they can't conceivably play for the 8th seed by the 20th game next season, Fisher will be on a timer to go on a winning streak before the All-Star game or he may get canned.

The notion that Phil will keep him around doesn't compute IMO. Fisher gets to keep $25M clams. That's a lot of salad for 18 months on the job. Nobody is going to say he was betrayed if Phil is pressured into firing him.

Now if the Knicks are losing that bad, then Phil's clock will be ticking before next season is over too. He is not untouchable. Dolan has burned up tens of millions on bad decisions and he will do it again if he feels the need to let them both go.

smackeddog wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:I still blame Don't Chaney.

Blame that firing on IT's ineptitude- didn't he let some comment slip in an interview that implied he was about to fire Chaney before he'd lined up a replacement coach, and then was left scrambling and picked the terrible Lenny Wilkins name out of thin air in a crisis meeting. Unbelievable! The hope at the time was for Mike Fratelli (or whatever his name was- the former Cavs coach), but somehow IT managed to piss him off or screw him over.

Lenny had some good moments. Another guy that was treated horribly though. Remember when they finally fired the last guy that he brought as a member of his staff and the staff was made up of Isiah's guys and Lenny was left dangling there by himself.

knicks1248 wrote:this guy is being paid 1 million less then pop and he's the 4th highest paid coach in the league, 12 fckng wins, phill could have gotten any space cadet to coach 12 wins.

You seem to be looking at the situation from an ignorant standpoint that is oblivious to the details that impacts it.

Four more years.

TPercy wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:this guy is being paid 1 million less then pop and he's the 4th highest paid coach in the league, 12 fckng wins, phill could have gotten any space cadet to coach 12 wins.

You seem to be looking at the situation from an ignorant standpoint that is oblivious to the details that impacts it.

TPercy wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:this guy is being paid 1 million less then pop and he's the 4th highest paid coach in the league, 12 fckng wins, phill could have gotten any space cadet to coach 12 wins.

You seem to be looking at the situation from an ignorant standpoint that is oblivious to the details that impacts it.

What details, you need to take off the fantasy glasses and deal with reality. I never said anything bad about Fisher, I just simply said he is not ready to be a head coach, not now, not next year or the year after that. He's young, He's raw, and He needs time, time we don't have with a 30 yr old 125 million dollar player on a suspect knee.

Why can't you folks realize the deeper part of the picture and stop looking at the surface. We already know the roster is trash trash trash, but he hasn't establish himself as a head coach at any point in the season.

He will be let go, it's just a matter of time. Why avoid the inevitable, just like he saw the roster wasn't good enough and dismantled it quick fast in a hurry, thats what he needs to do with fish..

Unless phil can get a top 5 pg, and some serious veterans who know how to win and a stud draft pick, Fisher doesn't have a glimmer of hope.

If you give him an avg roster or a young roster, and ask him to make those players better,he will suffer. He doesn't have the experience, thats fkng reality.

Some guys are not meant to be head coaches, why is that so hard to believe. You remember Magic, great player, great leader, terrible coach and he knew it.

There's nothing dumb about what I'm saying. I brought up the salary because he's paid like a big boy coach, just like ppl have a problem with melo making super star money, but doesn't play super star basketball. Coaches get fired when they win and don't bigger enough, and coaches get fired when they lose with a shityy roster. You have to see progress on some level or else whats the point.