Knicks · Jay Bilas the number 1 College anylsyt onm Jahill Okafor (page 2)
djsunyc wrote:fishmike wrote:yea... all this. Guys who have already picked Towns as their golden mooby see this as an attack. Passing on OK who is doing what he's doing is lunacy. Towns is a great prospect. OK4 is a superstar toying with his peers.so like picking emeka ok4 over dwight?
Emeka was significantly older than Dwight, Jahlil and Towns at the time. Also, Jahlil as a freshman is more dominant than Emeka was a junior. This is a different scenario than than the 2004 draft. For what it's worth, I remember people comparing Dwight Howard to Tim Duncan when he was in high school.
he has an edge on offense on towns.. but he doesn't necessarily blow him away... there is evidence to suggest that towns has a better offensive pro game...
on defense .. it's not close and okafor has been trending down... he's now at 1.6blks per 40 which is PF territory...
blkexec wrote:OK4 is 7'0 with a 7'5 wingspan and 270 lbs and play under the rim. Why do you have him at PF? I see a 5 morning noon and night.fishmike wrote:yea... all this. Guys who have already picked Towns as their golden mooby see this as an attack. Passing on OK who is doing what he's doing is lunacy. Towns is a great prospect. OK4 is a superstar toying with his peers.I agree...OK4 is the best college prospect in the draft. He's proven that, over all the other guys in the draft. So as a Towns guy, I don't see this as a knock on Towns. But I would still pick Towns over OK4. It's a gamble I'm willing to make, based on all the other college greats that came to the NBA and never reached their potential. But I do go back and forth between these two.....It's really a toss up. Do you gamble with Towns who will fill up the stats with blocks, rebounds, points, assist, or pick OK4 since you know what you get in a low post scorer who demands double teams, and you know what to work on as far as defense. I think they both have Hall A Fame potential. But who will impact the game more in their rookie contract years (during Phil and Melo era). Towns has multiple ways to impact an NBA game...OK4 is just a post player right now who will impact the offense. I'm happy with either one, but as a diffensive guy, I'm always leaning towards defense....especially when Towns is no scrub on offense....
If we get OK4, then we need to add a defensive player to fill in the major defensive weakness of OK4 and Melo. Otherwise, players will be able to get to the rim, the same way they do now with Bargs or when Amari playing center. It's like OK4 doesn't exist on defense, from what I saw. And thats an on going problem with the knicks old culture. All about scoring and nothing on defense. Melo's no trade clause hurts our ability to move Melo for a defensive center, while OK4 would be our PF.
C- (Monroe)
PF- OK4
SF- MeloC- (Monroe)
PF- Towns
SF- MeloC- Towns
PF- Melo
SF- ????C- (Monroe)
PF- Melo
SF-
SG-
PG- RussellMan, that FA pickup is key to our rebuild. It's not the pick. As you can see, regardless who we pick, it will fill a need. The problem with going big, it leaves a huge hole at PG. Picking Russell and hopefully getting Monroe, brings balance to your roster at two key positions.
I don't know.....we have too many unknowns for me, at this early stage. Knowing where we will pick would help! I don't trust the FA guards this year. But between FA's and the draft, this is a good year to add a few quality bigs.
The guy who would be PERFECT next to OK4 is Aldridge. A long 4 with a great jumper. OK4 in the paint. Melo/Aldridge at the forwards and Rondo/Galloway at the guards. Yes I said Rond... we can defend the perimeter. Gallow doesnt have to do much but defend. He becomes our Toney Allen and Rondo controls the ball and sets up the bigs. I think thats the nirvana nixluva in me posted but Im trying to offer something outside todays doom and gloom ;)
djsunyc wrote:Not at all... because Dwight was coming from HS where he was a force of nature. You get him in for a workout and go from there. He was also much bigger than OK4. You didnt have to wonder or guess about his 9ppg 6rebs. It was probably like 30/20 or something stupid.fishmike wrote:yea... all this. Guys who have already picked Towns as their golden mooby see this as an attack. Passing on OK who is doing what he's doing is lunacy. Towns is a great prospect. OK4 is a superstar toying with his peers.so like picking emeka ok4 over dwight?
Hows the liver?
FistOfOakley wrote:conference schedule started a game or two after that... so just look at his conference stats...
Ok got it FoO thanks!
Karl-Anthony Towns per 40mins
18g
58.3fg%
20.0ppg
12.1reb
4.4blks
81.5ft%
Get this
Towns TS of 64.3%
Ok4 TS 63.5%
Both insanely good
Makes me think that the Knicks see the practices as a way of seeing everything Towns can do on the court- things he might not do as much of in games.
OK4 plays most of the time when it counts for Duke, so what he can do or not do is out in the open. Towns is part of a platoon which keeps his minutes and his numbers down.
Looking at Ewing's freshman stats is interesting, IMO. My impression was that he was a defensive center with more of an inside game. I never thought Ewing would be the kind of jump shooter he turned out to be in the NBA. Ewing played 4 full years at Georgetown, and averaged about 15PPG and shot under 64% from the line during his 4 years. With the Knicks he averaged about 23PPG and shot 74% from the line.
Take a look at the basic per 40 minutes averages for the 3 players in their freshman years. Ewing averaged about 29MPG as a freshman, Towns is at about 21MPG, and OK4 about 31MPG.
Ewing FG/FGA FG% FT/FTA FT% TRB AST ST BLK TO PF PTS
6.9/10.9 .631 3.9/6.3 .617 10.5 .9 1.5 4.5 2.8 4.4 17.6Towns 6.9/12.3 .558 4.9/6.2 .790 12.8 2.2 .8 4.6 2.5 5.6 18.8
OK4 9.6/14.4 .668 5.6/10.8 .524 12.0 1.9 1.0 1.8 5.2 4.1 23.0
Make your own conclusions.
FistOfOakley wrote:that's offense... if he's going to be a center then he needs to play defense... anyone who thinks okafor is #1 will just refuse to consider defense at all...he has an edge on offense on towns.. but he doesn't necessarily blow him away... there is evidence to suggest that towns has a better offensive pro game...
on defense .. it's not close and okafor has been trending down... he's now at 1.6blks per 40 which is PF territory...
First, there's more to playing defense than blocking shots. Second, you should also mention OK4's ankle injury if you're going to bring up the fact that he's trending down. OK4's shot nlocking numbers aren't dominant, but they're not horrible. Despite the injury, OK4 still bringsbit every game. Coach K has never whispered to the media about his effort. Also, there's no evidence to suggest that Towns will be more effective offensively in the NBA. It's not like he had college three point range and his post game needs work. OK4 face double teams on a consistent basis and still scores. He also shoots a higher percentage from the field. It's safe to say OK4 blows Towns away on offense at this point.
BigDaddyG wrote:FistOfOakley wrote:that's offense... if he's going to be a center then he needs to play defense... anyone who thinks okafor is #1 will just refuse to consider defense at all...he has an edge on offense on towns.. but he doesn't necessarily blow him away... there is evidence to suggest that towns has a better offensive pro game...
on defense .. it's not close and okafor has been trending down... he's now at 1.6blks per 40 which is PF territory...
First, there's more to playing defense than blocking shots. Second, you should also mention OK4's ankle injury if you're going to bring up the fact that he's trending down. OK4's shot nlocking numbers aren't dominant, but they're not horrible. Despite the injury, OK4 still bringsbit every game. Coach K has never whispered to the media about his effort. Also, there's no evidence to suggest that Towns will be more effective offensively in the NBA. It's not like he had college three point range and his post game needs work. OK4 face double teams on a consistent basis and still scores. He also shoots a higher percentage from the field. It's safe to say OK4 blows Towns away on offense at this point.
No one ever questioned Amares effort either. Only his defensive effort and instincts
WaltLongmire wrote:We heard the stories of a Knicks' scout spending a lot of time at KU practices, but nothing similar regarding OK4. Is there a good reason for this?Makes me think that the Knicks see the practices as a way of seeing everything Towns can do on the court- things he might not do as much of in games.
OK4 plays most of the time when it counts for Duke, so what he can do or not do is out in the open. Towns is part of a platoon which keeps his minutes and his numbers down.
Looking at Ewing's freshman stats is interesting, IMO. My impression was that he was a defensive center with more of an inside game. I never thought Ewing would be the kind of jump shooter he turned out to be in the NBA. Ewing played 4 full years at Georgetown, and averaged about 15PPG and shot under 64% from the line during his 4 years. With the Knicks he averaged about 23PPG and shot 74% from the line.
Take a look at the basic per 40 minutes averages for the 3 players in their freshman years. Ewing averaged about 29MPG as a freshman, Towns is at about 21MPG, and OK4 about 31MPG.
Ewing FG/FGA FG% FT/FTA FT% TRB AST ST BLK TO PF PTS
6.9/10.9 .631 3.9/6.3 .617 10.5 .9 1.5 4.5 2.8 4.4 17.6Towns 6.9/12.3 .558 4.9/6.2 .790 12.8 2.2 .8 4.6 2.5 5.6 18.8
OK4 9.6/14.4 .668 5.6/10.8 .524 12.0 1.9 1.0 1.8 5.2 4.1 23.0
Make your own conclusions.
Kentucky has like 10 potential pro prospects on their team. It would make sense for Phil, or anyone, to spend a lot of time watching Kentucky's practices.
BigDaddyG wrote:that and simply like everyone else they are looking for data on Towns. Hows his motor and endurance (he doesnt play a ton of minutes), what does he show in practice he doesnt show in games.. stuff like that.WaltLongmire wrote:We heard the stories of a Knicks' scout spending a lot of time at KU practices, but nothing similar regarding OK4. Is there a good reason for this?Makes me think that the Knicks see the practices as a way of seeing everything Towns can do on the court- things he might not do as much of in games.
OK4 plays most of the time when it counts for Duke, so what he can do or not do is out in the open. Towns is part of a platoon which keeps his minutes and his numbers down.
Looking at Ewing's freshman stats is interesting, IMO. My impression was that he was a defensive center with more of an inside game. I never thought Ewing would be the kind of jump shooter he turned out to be in the NBA. Ewing played 4 full years at Georgetown, and averaged about 15PPG and shot under 64% from the line during his 4 years. With the Knicks he averaged about 23PPG and shot 74% from the line.
Take a look at the basic per 40 minutes averages for the 3 players in their freshman years. Ewing averaged about 29MPG as a freshman, Towns is at about 21MPG, and OK4 about 31MPG.
Ewing FG/FGA FG% FT/FTA FT% TRB AST ST BLK TO PF PTS
6.9/10.9 .631 3.9/6.3 .617 10.5 .9 1.5 4.5 2.8 4.4 17.6Towns 6.9/12.3 .558 4.9/6.2 .790 12.8 2.2 .8 4.6 2.5 5.6 18.8
OK4 9.6/14.4 .668 5.6/10.8 .524 12.0 1.9 1.0 1.8 5.2 4.1 23.0
Make your own conclusions.
Kentucky has like 10 potential pro prospects on their team. It would make sense for Phil, or anyone, to spend a lot of time watching Kentucky's practices.
Towns like evaluating a Euro. They dont let the young guys play as much so your looking at skill sets, athleticism, etc.. The reason there are so many euro-busts is simply because there isnt enough game data. Yet some are obviously fantastic players. Town's situation reminds of that a bit.
gunsnewing wrote:No one ever questioned Amares effort either. Only his defensive effort and instincts
True, but we have heard Coach Cal question Towns effort and maturity a few times this year. I'm not saying Towns is Eddie Griffin, but you have to consider these things. Part of being a pro is acting like a pro and OK4 already has that nailed. Even after Cal called Towns out, there's been games where he's disappeared.
blocking shots is not the end all be all but it is a very important indicator... at least for young big men... there is a large chasm to what towns is doing vs what okafor is doing on that front...
FistOfOakley wrote:everything coming out about towns is pretty glowing... there are no red flags with his attitude or work ethic... if anyone paid attention to him earlier in the year his offensive game left a lot to be desired... by the end its gotten to be pretty dominant....He seems like a good kid (seriously) but his coach called him out puplicly for loafing.blocking shots is not the end all be all but it is a very important indicator... at least for young big men... there is a large chasm to what towns is doing vs what okafor is doing on that front...
I mean yea good chance that Calipari playing his games just like Parcells used to do (clearly it worked) but he still said it. What happens when Towns becomes a bit demoralized by the pressure, grind of the NBA season along with the fact that he's not ready is strugglinhg on the floor? Does Towns have the toughness to fight through that? Some players do some dont. You cant assume that its all going to work out rosey.
If OK4 is getting killed on defense his saving grace is he can dish it right back on the other end. Now thats not the style your promoting, but its part of the game and means something at times.
What is Towns bringing to the table that is going to bring him confidence in the NBA right away? OK4 has something, Russell has something. They have goto moves. Towns doesnt. Per 40 minutes are what made Darko the #2 pick, Skita a top 5 pick, etc etc
fishmike wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:that and simply like everyone else they are looking for data on Towns. Hows his motor and endurance (he doesnt play a ton of minutes), what does he show in practice he doesnt show in games.. stuff like that.WaltLongmire wrote:We heard the stories of a Knicks' scout spending a lot of time at KU practices, but nothing similar regarding OK4. Is there a good reason for this?Makes me think that the Knicks see the practices as a way of seeing everything Towns can do on the court- things he might not do as much of in games.
OK4 plays most of the time when it counts for Duke, so what he can do or not do is out in the open. Towns is part of a platoon which keeps his minutes and his numbers down.
Looking at Ewing's freshman stats is interesting, IMO. My impression was that he was a defensive center with more of an inside game. I never thought Ewing would be the kind of jump shooter he turned out to be in the NBA. Ewing played 4 full years at Georgetown, and averaged about 15PPG and shot under 64% from the line during his 4 years. With the Knicks he averaged about 23PPG and shot 74% from the line.
Take a look at the basic per 40 minutes averages for the 3 players in their freshman years. Ewing averaged about 29MPG as a freshman, Towns is at about 21MPG, and OK4 about 31MPG.
Ewing FG/FGA FG% FT/FTA FT% TRB AST ST BLK TO PF PTS
6.9/10.9 .631 3.9/6.3 .617 10.5 .9 1.5 4.5 2.8 4.4 17.6Towns 6.9/12.3 .558 4.9/6.2 .790 12.8 2.2 .8 4.6 2.5 5.6 18.8
OK4 9.6/14.4 .668 5.6/10.8 .524 12.0 1.9 1.0 1.8 5.2 4.1 23.0
Make your own conclusions.
Kentucky has like 10 potential pro prospects on their team. It would make sense for Phil, or anyone, to spend a lot of time watching Kentucky's practices.Towns like evaluating a Euro. They dont let the young guys play as much so your looking at skill sets, athleticism, etc.. The reason there are so many euro-busts is simply because there isnt enough game data. Yet some are obviously fantastic players. Town's situation reminds of that a bit.
Good points. At least they are watching Towns practice. I don't think they watch foreign players practice. Do they? I would assume the scout only have access to the games
FistOfOakley wrote:everything coming out about towns is pretty glowing... there are no red flags with his attitude or work ethic... if anyone paid attention to him earlier in the year his offensive game left a lot to be desired... by the end its gotten to be pretty dominant....blocking shots is not the end all be all but it is a very important indicator... at least for young big men... there is a large chasm to what towns is doing vs what okafor is doing on that front...
He had it in him from the beginning but like most 19 yr olds their is an adjustment period to playing serious elite level college system basketball. He went from being a kid to being counted on to produce for the #1 team in the country. Ok4 is the rare case of a 19yr old that can produce offensively in the NBA today but that shouldn't be held against other prospects in this draft imo
FistOfOakley wrote:and yes the ankle injury for okafor sure didn't help his cause but he was already at an unsatisfactory level before that... the injury just shows how close he is to complete non-existence...
Yeah, he looked pretty non existent plowing through a UNC front line that has a minimum of two NBA prospects on its front line. He was also a no show in that one game against Syracuse where he shut down Rakeem Christmas. Can OK4 can improve his D? Yeah. But you're overstating how bad.