Knicks · Call me a hater all you want, but Phil is not happy with Fisher (page 2)

CrushAlot wrote:

nixluva wrote:Fisher learning on the job is not the problem. Like any coach he has things he needs to learn and not everything he tries is gonna work. Still The Knicks are not a poorly coached team. They're prepared to play but lack talent and have youth that is prone to mistakes. I could spend all day pointing out just why I say this isn't a poorly coached team but team but it wouldn't matter to some who are convinced that Fish can't coach. Making a few mistakes doesn't mean he's a bad coach.

Also, lots of roster turnover and guys coming back from injury. I don't think Fish will face this much adversity again.

Can't think of a tougher spot for a rookie coach than NY! The bashing is pure BULLISH IMO. I'd like to see just about any coach look good with this roster and the turnover etc.

I still think Phil can salvage the situation by reassigning Fish to replace Mills, who in my opinion is also not suited to hold that position. Phil can then hire Shaw to sit on the bench to coach the team.

Knicks1969 wrote:We missed out in not hiring Kerr, but we can still make up for lost time by hiring Shaw. Does anyone know how much Mills is actually earning?

Why do you assume that Kerr's success is because he's some amazing coach rather than a guy who is good but ended up on an absolutely loaded team and knew what to do with it. Kerr had seen what MDA did with the Suns when he was GM and knew that the Warriors were tailor made for that kind of uptempo style. It's why he brought in Alvin Gentry who knows MDA's stuff inside and out. He also had a lot of knowledge of what the Spurs do and could run that style as well. In NY Fish didn't have that kind of talent and if Kerr was here he wouldn't have been able to run the stuff he's using with GS either.

As for Shaw, what makes you think he's a better coach than Fish? What do you really have as proof that he is better at handling players and relating to them than Fish? It's not really about X's and O's. All coaches have a certain amount of knowledge of plays and tactics. If not you can bring in assistants with that kind of knowledge as Phil did with Tex Winter. Evidence seems to suggest that Shaw is not that good handling players or relating to them. I see no evidence that Fish's players don't like him.

If you think Phil did good job vetting Kerr for the job, then why not Fish? You hated the hire from day one so its not like you had to wait and see.
Nothing about this season is positive other than we are tearing down the old.

Nalod wrote:Kerr is no magic man. They won 55 games last season and MJax was replaced cuz he is Homophobic adulterer Who tended to offend Warriors president (a gay man) and others with his own baggage.

If you think Phil did good job vetting Kerr for the job, then why not Fish? You hated the hire from day one so its not like you had to wait and see.
Nothing about this season is positive other than we are tearing down the old.

Not an accurate portrayal of some of us.

Myself, I was open to Fisher at first. It was only after seeing how inept Phil was as a rookie GM did I turn a 180 and conclude it was just too much for Phil to expect things to go well by asking a coach to learn the ropes while he himself was learning how to run a club. That's totally unreasonable and was bad judgment on Phil's part.

Kerr is not equivalent and using GS's roster as a dismissal of his viability as a coach doesn't work for me either. The differences between Kerr's experience and Fisher's is pretty vast. Kerr was a GM for crying out loud. Fish had never coached anything in his life. Plus, Kerr was preparing for the coaching position for years and had a massive head start intellectually and that was clear from his time in the broadcast booth. Bad comparison Nalod.

This is not about grinding axes. Phil made a bad decision. That doesn't mean Fisher is kaput, but he is behind the 8-Ball and he will not have five years to get his crap together, another reason Phil made a bad decision in giving him 5 years. It was not a vote of confidence. It was Phil wrapping himself up in a cocoon of people he trusted, not the most competent people. Phil's vision is deeply flawed and the way he went about assembling the staff reflects that.

If Fisher can't make good substitutions and call plays well in the clutch next season, he won't be coaching the Knicks in season 3.

Nalod wrote:Kerr is no magic man. They won 55 games last season and MJax was replaced cuz he is Homophobic adulterer Who tended to offend Warriors president (a gay man) and others with his own baggage.

If you think Phil did good job vetting Kerr for the job, then why not Fish? You hated the hire from day one so its not like you had to wait and see.
Nothing about this season is positive other than we are tearing down the old.

Yes I did not like the hire from the jump, but our record further proved that I was correct about Fisher. As for Marc Jackson, he should have been our coach to begin with. He unlike Fisher is a known motivator and used an establish proven system that got the best out of his talents.

I'm with Phil on this one. If we can't have one of the better teams, at least we can have the coach with the most technicals and finish the season tops in that category.

Knicks1969 wrote:

Nalod wrote:Kerr is no magic man. They won 55 games last season and MJax was replaced cuz he is Homophobic adulterer Who tended to offend Warriors president (a gay man) and others with his own baggage.

If you think Phil did good job vetting Kerr for the job, then why not Fish? You hated the hire from day one so its not like you had to wait and see.
Nothing about this season is positive other than we are tearing down the old.

Yes I did not like the hire from the jump, but our record further proved that I was correct about Fisher. As for Marc Jackson, he should have been our coach to begin with. He unlike Fisher is a known motivator and used an establish proven system that got the best out of his talents.

So how many wins do you think this d league team should have?

smackeddog wrote:

Knicks1969 wrote:

Nalod wrote:Kerr is no magic man. They won 55 games last season and MJax was replaced cuz he is Homophobic adulterer Who tended to offend Warriors president (a gay man) and others with his own baggage.

If you think Phil did good job vetting Kerr for the job, then why not Fish? You hated the hire from day one so its not like you had to wait and see.
Nothing about this season is positive other than we are tearing down the old.

Yes I did not like the hire from the jump, but our record further proved that I was correct about Fisher. As for Marc Jackson, he should have been our coach to begin with. He unlike Fisher is a known motivator and used an establish proven system that got the best out of his talents.

So how many wins do you think this d league team should have?

Should or would have had with Jackson as our coach????

Knicks1969 wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

Knicks1969 wrote:

Nalod wrote:Kerr is no magic man. They won 55 games last season and MJax was replaced cuz he is Homophobic adulterer Who tended to offend Warriors president (a gay man) and others with his own baggage.

If you think Phil did good job vetting Kerr for the job, then why not Fish? You hated the hire from day one so its not like you had to wait and see.
Nothing about this season is positive other than we are tearing down the old.

Yes I did not like the hire from the jump, but our record further proved that I was correct about Fisher. As for Marc Jackson, he should have been our coach to begin with. He unlike Fisher is a known motivator and used an establish proven system that got the best out of his talents.

So how many wins do you think this d league team should have?

Should or would have had with Jackson as our coach????

10 more wins ... big whoop.

I am not a fisher fan but the team stinks so its irrelevant (this year).

mreinman wrote:

Knicks1969 wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

Knicks1969 wrote:

Nalod wrote:Kerr is no magic man. They won 55 games last season and MJax was replaced cuz he is Homophobic adulterer Who tended to offend Warriors president (a gay man) and others with his own baggage.

If you think Phil did good job vetting Kerr for the job, then why not Fish? You hated the hire from day one so its not like you had to wait and see.
Nothing about this season is positive other than we are tearing down the old.

Yes I did not like the hire from the jump, but our record further proved that I was correct about Fisher. As for Marc Jackson, he should have been our coach to begin with. He unlike Fisher is a known motivator and used an establish proven system that got the best out of his talents.

So how many wins do you think this d league team should have?

Should or would have had with Jackson as our coach????

10 more wins ... big whoop.

I am not a fisher fan but the team stinks so its irrelevant (this year).

I disagree. Jackson would have found a way to get the best out of JR, THJ, and Shump

Knicks1969 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Knicks1969 wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

Knicks1969 wrote:

Nalod wrote:Kerr is no magic man. They won 55 games last season and MJax was replaced cuz he is Homophobic adulterer Who tended to offend Warriors president (a gay man) and others with his own baggage.

If you think Phil did good job vetting Kerr for the job, then why not Fish? You hated the hire from day one so its not like you had to wait and see.
Nothing about this season is positive other than we are tearing down the old.

Yes I did not like the hire from the jump, but our record further proved that I was correct about Fisher. As for Marc Jackson, he should have been our coach to begin with. He unlike Fisher is a known motivator and used an establish proven system that got the best out of his talents.

So how many wins do you think this d league team should have?

Should or would have had with Jackson as our coach????

10 more wins ... big whoop.

I am not a fisher fan but the team stinks so its irrelevant (this year).

I disagree. Jackson would have found a way to get the best out of JR, THJ, and Shump

Probably could have gotten melo to hit more shots and to not get hurt too.

mreinman wrote:

Knicks1969 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Knicks1969 wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

Knicks1969 wrote:

Nalod wrote:Kerr is no magic man. They won 55 games last season and MJax was replaced cuz he is Homophobic adulterer Who tended to offend Warriors president (a gay man) and others with his own baggage.

If you think Phil did good job vetting Kerr for the job, then why not Fish? You hated the hire from day one so its not like you had to wait and see.
Nothing about this season is positive other than we are tearing down the old.

Yes I did not like the hire from the jump, but our record further proved that I was correct about Fisher. As for Marc Jackson, he should have been our coach to begin with. He unlike Fisher is a known motivator and used an establish proven system that got the best out of his talents.

So how many wins do you think this d league team should have?

Should or would have had with Jackson as our coach????

10 more wins ... big whoop.

I am not a fisher fan but the team stinks so its irrelevant (this year).

I disagree. Jackson would have found a way to get the best out of JR, THJ, and Shump

Probably could have gotten to hit more shots and to not get hurt too.

The worse thing to do is to play sport in fear. All these dudes have expressed their disconfort about playing under Fisher. Which in my opinion might have led to the many injuries reported in our camp this year.

A more established coach like Marc would have calmed them down and assumed a leadership role from the jump.

StraightShot wrote:The premise of this entire thread is wrong. Derek has Phil's full support, and Phil has Jim's full support. There is a plan in place to make the team contenders and everyone is on board.

As usual, Dolan is wrong. You simply can't have rookies in all area running your team.

Knicks1969 wrote:

Splat wrote:I pretty much agree with Phil on this one.

But Phil knew Derek well so he may be asking him to be something he is not and that lands on Phil, Not Fish.

I have found Phil to be full of assumptions that are often not correlated to reality. This is another example. He made this bed. Gave the guy a massive coaching contract which is hard to justify.

Kerr had lots of post-player NBA experience and was a good pick.

Fish somehow got the same deal and he was a player only weeks earlier.

Phil may have fukked this up big time. Fish, good or bad, would have been crazy not to take the deal, so it is hard to blame him for that. Whether he'll be a good coach is very much up to question at this point. That is on Phil.

I agree with you 100%

Eh, but besides it being possibly something that reflects badly on phil's decision making who cares if the Knicks have to dump Fisher and pay him off a boat load of money. It's Dolan's cash so really IDGAF. It doesn't affect the cap and that's all I really care about. But again if Phil is itching to dump Fisher years before his contract is up the issues of concern aren't the money owed and the contract.

H1AND1 wrote:

Knicks1969 wrote:

Splat wrote:I pretty much agree with Phil on this one.

But Phil knew Derek well so he may be asking him to be something he is not and that lands on Phil, Not Fish.

I have found Phil to be full of assumptions that are often not correlated to reality. This is another example. He made this bed. Gave the guy a massive coaching contract which is hard to justify.

Kerr had lots of post-player NBA experience and was a good pick.

Fish somehow got the same deal and he was a player only weeks earlier.

Phil may have fukked this up big time. Fish, good or bad, would have been crazy not to take the deal, so it is hard to blame him for that. Whether he'll be a good coach is very much up to question at this point. That is on Phil.

I agree with you 100%

Eh, but besides it being possibly something that reflects badly on phil's decision making who cares if the Knicks have to dump Fisher and pay him off a boat load of money. It's Dolan's cash so really IDGAF. It doesn't affect the cap and that's all I really care about. But again if Phil is itching to dump Fisher years before his contract is up the issues of concern aren't the money owed and the contract.

Sure, money seems irrelevant to Dolan. He wipes his butt with it. The primary hit is on Phil's rep and ego and perhaps it will give any replacement coach of note serious pause about joining an organization perceived as unstable. Because if Fish is canned, nobody will know for sure if it is truly Phil's decision or Dolan's. And if it is Dolan's, then Phil could be next. So a good coach may hesitate to get in the middle of that.

Unless we draft someone who turns out to be total star. Most coaches would die for the opportunity to coach Anthony Davis. That kind of luck could change many things for the organization and make it easier to can Fish and recruit a coach.