Knicks · NBAdraft.net puts Russell and Towns ahead of OK4 (page 12)

fishmike wrote:
Thats vs. Frank Kaminsky.. a legit 7 footer, NBA prospect and the best player in CBB. This is what I mean about dominating the competition. That type of scoring can only be defended with doubles.. something OK4 is quite adept to deal with.

that was a travel

dk7th wrote:

fishmike wrote:
Thats vs. Frank Kaminsky.. a legit 7 footer, NBA prospect and the best player in CBB. This is what I mean about dominating the competition. That type of scoring can only be defended with doubles.. something OK4 is quite adept to deal with.

that was a travel

Are you talking about slightly dragging his left foot at the start of the move? I don't think that would ever be called in an NBA game.

This is better. Pick a clip. He does it all in each one

fishmike wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

nyk4ever wrote:

Uptown wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:He is 19 of course you can nitpick his flaws. Ok4's motor on defense and reaction time Are more glaring imo. Does he have it in him to get better?

Who knows if he has it in him? The same can be said about Towns who was already called out by his coach. I know this much, Ok4 is going to be a legit scoring threat in the paint from day one. His best attribute, scoring in the paint is more easy to bank on than what Towns is going to bring to the table. Towns is more of a what if or might be. Too much of a risk to take #1.

good post. it's such a tough call for me. i think towns will end up being the best player in this draft, but he could totally end up being a bust, just like any of the others could be. i do think you're right about ok4 being a legit scoring threat from day1. there is a lot less risk with picking ok4, i think.

yea thats what I said to Fish. I have no issue with people thinking OK4 is the safer pick because of his offense. Personally I think Towns is the safer pick because at worst he will be a contributor in multiple areas on a winning team. Whereas OK4, Melo & Calderon will be a disaster defensively even if there's enough shots for both OK4 & Melo. I think with Towns Melo can still be himself. Towns won't demand the ball, he will space the floor and he will cover for Melo's defensive deficiences to certain extent minimally. Those are a few of the reasons why I prefer Towns

If that was the case we wouldnt be having this discussion. Town's downside is Kwame Brown or Javal McGee or Benoit Benjamin. When you take a guy who isnt ready for the league you risk bust. Yes OK4 is the "safer" pick because he's going to be a good NBA player. He could also be the safe pick because he's light years ahead of Town developmentally, and has a skill set that few guys have and few guy aquire once joining the league.

Right now Towns looks a lot like Robin Lopez with a jumper. I understand the upside but I also see total denial that Towns fits the profile of many an NBA bust. Is that fishmike saying Towns will be a bust? No.. only that he fits a profile of great prospects who were busts because they were too raw or taking too early to properly develop.

cant argue with any of this, fish, good post. you have to love what towns has been doing, but you can't say he does any one thing dominantly right now. i love the fact that he has an all-around game and i also love the fact that it seems like he's just oozing with untapped potential. watching him play, im not sure he fits the profile of a low-post dominant big man, although it's obviously something he can develop in due time. the term potential gets alot of people fired and while we have seen a lot of nice things from towns, i don't think he's in the discussion for #1pick becuase of his stats this year; it's what his stats could be.

i know you've mentioned marvin williams alot as kind of a similar type player, another guy who i think fits the profile is derrick favors. he has a very similar situation as towns and is a very similar type of player. favors was a 12ppg/8rpg guy at geargia tech and was viewed as a do-all player with very few weaknesses. he ends up being the third pick in the draft based on his potential, he's just now starting to come into his own in the nba, 5 years into his career. he's not a bust, but i don't think anyone would say he has lived up to being the 3rd pick in the draft yet. i do like the fact that phil has been visiting KU practices on the regualar though, atleast he's seeing towns in practice, and to be honest, KU practices are probably pretty intense since they have about 9pro's on their roster. if you split that team in half the, the second-unit would probably be a top10 team this year, as well, so atleast towns is seeing competition there too. this is all just food for thought.

whatever the case is, i hope phil does all of his homework and makes the right pick.. i'm fine with either guy though, that's for sure.

gunsnewing wrote:This is better. Pick a clip. He does it all in each one

I watched that whole game. He played well. Got the ball slapped out of his hands a few times but he def won that game for KY. Ewing had very small hands as well

nyk4ever wrote:

fishmike wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

nyk4ever wrote:

Uptown wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:He is 19 of course you can nitpick his flaws. Ok4's motor on defense and reaction time Are more glaring imo. Does he have it in him to get better?

Who knows if he has it in him? The same can be said about Towns who was already called out by his coach. I know this much, Ok4 is going to be a legit scoring threat in the paint from day one. His best attribute, scoring in the paint is more easy to bank on than what Towns is going to bring to the table. Towns is more of a what if or might be. Too much of a risk to take #1.

good post. it's such a tough call for me. i think towns will end up being the best player in this draft, but he could totally end up being a bust, just like any of the others could be. i do think you're right about ok4 being a legit scoring threat from day1. there is a lot less risk with picking ok4, i think.

yea thats what I said to Fish. I have no issue with people thinking OK4 is the safer pick because of his offense. Personally I think Towns is the safer pick because at worst he will be a contributor in multiple areas on a winning team. Whereas OK4, Melo & Calderon will be a disaster defensively even if there's enough shots for both OK4 & Melo. I think with Towns Melo can still be himself. Towns won't demand the ball, he will space the floor and he will cover for Melo's defensive deficiences to certain extent minimally. Those are a few of the reasons why I prefer Towns

If that was the case we wouldnt be having this discussion. Town's downside is Kwame Brown or Javal McGee or Benoit Benjamin. When you take a guy who isnt ready for the league you risk bust. Yes OK4 is the "safer" pick because he's going to be a good NBA player. He could also be the safe pick because he's light years ahead of Town developmentally, and has a skill set that few guys have and few guy aquire once joining the league.

Right now Towns looks a lot like Robin Lopez with a jumper. I understand the upside but I also see total denial that Towns fits the profile of many an NBA bust. Is that fishmike saying Towns will be a bust? No.. only that he fits a profile of great prospects who were busts because they were too raw or taking too early to properly develop.

cant argue with any of this, fish, good post. you have to love what towns has been doing, but you can't say he does any one thing dominantly right now. i love the fact that he has an all-around game and i also love the fact that it seems like he's just oozing with untapped potential. watching him play, im not sure he fits the profile of a low-post dominant big man, although it's obviously something he can develop in due time. the term potential gets alot of people fired and while we have seen a lot of nice things from towns, i don't think he's in the discussion for #1pick becuase of his stats this year; it's what his stats could be.

i know you've mentioned marvin williams alot as kind of a similar type player, another guy who i think fits the profile is derrick favors. he has a very similar situation as towns and is a very similar type of player. favors was a 12ppg/8rpg guy at geargia tech and was viewed as a do-all player with very few weaknesses. he ends up being the third pick in the draft based on his potential, he's just now starting to come into his own in the nba, 5 years into his career. he's not a bust, but i don't think anyone would say he has lived up to being the 3rd pick in the draft yet. i do like the fact that phil has been visiting KU practices on the regualar though, atleast he's seeing towns in practice, and to be honest, KU practices are probably pretty intense since they have about 9pro's on their roster. if you split that team in half the, the second-unit would probably be a top10 team this year, as well, so atleast towns is seeing competition there too. this is all just food for thought.

whatever the case is, i hope phil does all of his homework and makes the right pick.. i'm fine with either guy though, that's for sure.

yea.. I still have Towns at 3rd after OK4 and Russell. Thats not hating. There are alot of players I would be happy to get in this draft. Towns is one.

I really like Favors. Much better comparison but I like Towns more. Like you said Towns practices and plays in a very competive environment. Favors did not. I got no problem giving Towns 4-5 years to reach his maximum potential. He is only 19 so he will be 23-24 and we will reap the benefits as long as we are patient and Phil already said he is going to be patient with 19yr olds. I really think Phil fully understands the errors in the way the knicks have been run. Phil wants to build a sustainable winner and the best way to do that is to develop your own cheap talent.

I'm not too concerned about winning in the next 4yrs for Melo. Let him sell jerseys and tickets and enjoy his money. If being patient for 4-5yrs leads to 10+ years of 50 wins like the 90s we'll take it

gunsnewing wrote:I really like Favors. Much better comparison but I like Towns more. Like you said Towns practices and plays in a very competive environment. Favors did not. I got no problem giving Towns 4-5 years to reach his maximum potential. He is only 19 so he will be 23-24 and we will reap the benefits as long as we are patient and Phil already said he is going to be patient with 19yr olds. I really think Phil fully understands the errors in the way the knicks have been run. Phil wants to build a sustainable winner and the best way to do that is to develop your own cheap talent

again... why wait 4-5 years while hoping along the way when the other guy might be an all star out of the box? Makes zero sense. Very few guys that take that long to develop are still on the teams that drafted them when they do.

I don't see another 2-way player in this draft that will be great right away and I don't think the guards are as good as curry, wall or Rose. And out of those guys Curry is the only one who doesn't hurt his team with his deficiencies.

Most bigs arent Anthony Davis, Tim Duncan and even Dwight Howard right away. I think Towns & OK4 can put up similar numbers to Demarcus rookie year offensively but Towns is better all around. Towns can put up Howard all around numbers with a more versatile game whether it's in year 1,2,3,4 or 5.

If Towns does nothing the first few years which I doubt but is Derrick Favors or better in 4-5 years I will be extremely happy with the pick. If ok4 puts up offensive numbers but is amare/Lee bad defensively than I won't be so happy

Bonn1997 wrote:

dk7th wrote:

fishmike wrote:
Thats vs. Frank Kaminsky.. a legit 7 footer, NBA prospect and the best player in CBB. This is what I mean about dominating the competition. That type of scoring can only be defended with doubles.. something OK4 is quite adept to deal with.

that was a travel

Are you talking about slightly dragging his left foot at the start of the move? I don't think that would ever be called in an NBA game.

they are calling that foot head-start a travel more than ever, bonn. if he is all that, he won't need the cheat move. everything else about the move was nice but-- again-- on the finish there is very little lift, similar to boozer. that HAS TO be a concern, since boozer gets his shot blocked a lot (which is why he resorts to that awful bellow like he's been shot or something).

I don't personally prefer OK4, but I have to admit, I'd be intrigued and pretty damn happy if the Knicks got him. It really feels like OK4, Towns and Russell are all very strong picks and all potential all-stars. I just really hope we get a top three pick.

Dolan has made us all so impatient. There's nothing wrong with showing some patience with high draft picks. Heck even JORDAN Hill amounted to something after a few years.

I think fans will be patient if Dolan doesnt get involved in basketball decisions and let's Phil do his job

gunsnewing wrote:Dolan has made us all so impatient. There's nothing wrong with showing some patience with high draft picks. Heck even JORDAN Hill amounted to something after a few years.

I think fans will be patient if Dolan doesnt get involved in basketball decisions and let's Phil do his job

Dolan is involved in almost every basketball decision. Don't kid yourself. That's why they've been so consistently terrible during his tenure.

This is why I think it's WAY more likely we wind up with Kevin Love on draft night than Towns, OK4 or Russell.

crzymdups wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Dolan has made us all so impatient. There's nothing wrong with showing some patience with high draft picks. Heck even JORDAN Hill amounted to something after a few years.

I think fans will be patient if Dolan doesnt get involved in basketball decisions and let's Phil do his job

Dolan is involved in almost every basketball decision. Don't kid yourself. That's why they've been so consistently terrible during his tenure.

This is why I think it's WAY more likely we wind up with Kevin Love on draft night than Towns, OK4 or Russell.

they arent trading the pick and Phil said point blank they will groom a star player even if he's not ready.

gunsnewing wrote:Most bigs arent Anthony Davis, Tim Duncan and even Dwight Howard right away. I think Towns & OK4 can put up similar numbers to Demarcus rookie year offensively but Towns is better all around. Towns can put up Howard all around numbers with a more versatile game whether it's in year 1,2,3,4 or 5.

If Towns does nothing the first few years which I doubt but is Derrick Favors or better in 4-5 years I will be extremely happy with the pick. If ok4 puts up offensive numbers but is amare/Lee bad defensively than I won't be so happy

You would be asking too much of Towns if you expect him too put up the same numbers Demarcus Cousins did in his rookie season. Boogie was light years ahead of Towns in terms of his physical development entering the draft. Boogie averaged about 14 points and 11 rebounds in his rookie season. Anthony Davis had similar averages in his injury plagued rookie season. Towns will probably post numbers closer to Joakim Noah's rookie season. Noah averaged 7 points and 6 rebounds that year.

BigDaddyG wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Most bigs arent Anthony Davis, Tim Duncan and even Dwight Howard right away. I think Towns & OK4 can put up similar numbers to Demarcus rookie year offensively but Towns is better all around. Towns can put up Howard all around numbers with a more versatile game whether it's in year 1,2,3,4 or 5.

If Towns does nothing the first few years which I doubt but is Derrick Favors or better in 4-5 years I will be extremely happy with the pick. If ok4 puts up offensive numbers but is amare/Lee bad defensively than I won't be so happy

You would be asking too much of Towns if you expect him too put up the same numbers Demarcus Cousins did in his rookie season. Boogie was light years ahead of Towns in terms of his physical development entering the draft. Boogie averaged about 14 points and 11 rebounds in his rookie season. Anthony Davis had similar averages in his injury plagued rookie season. Towns will probably post numbers closer to Joakim Noah's rookie season. Noah averaged 7 points and 6 rebounds that year.

Boogie averaged 14 & 8

I shocked if Towns averages 12/8/2

At worst 10 & 7 in 20 something crucial minutes in year 1 and grow from there

Or heck I'd take Noah's 7&6 in year one. Noah didn't take 5yrs to Hang good numbers up on the board

fishmike wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Dolan has made us all so impatient. There's nothing wrong with showing some patience with high draft picks. Heck even JORDAN Hill amounted to something after a few years.

I think fans will be patient if Dolan doesnt get involved in basketball decisions and let's Phil do his job

Dolan is involved in almost every basketball decision. Don't kid yourself. That's why they've been so consistently terrible during his tenure.

This is why I think it's WAY more likely we wind up with Kevin Love on draft night than Towns, OK4 or Russell.

they arent trading the pick and Phil said point blank they will groom a star player even if he's not ready.

Well, I hope this is true. I'm starting to see how OK4 would work with Melo. We'll see, I guess. Part of me is tempted to say if they get OK4, just go all power squad and try to get Lance Stephenson in a cap room trade.

Langston
Lance
Melo
OK4
Robin Lopez

We'll see. I feel like the kind of team they build will depend a lot on what happens at the draft.

gunsnewing wrote:Boogie averaged 14 & 8

I shocked if Towns averages 12/8/2

At worst 10 & 7 in 20 something crucial minutes in year 1 and grow from there

You're right about Boogie. But you see my point. Boogie was stronger than Towns and Davis was more skilled and athletic going into their rookie years. It will take Towns at least a year to get stronger and learn how to play NBA defense.

BigDaddyG wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Boogie averaged 14 & 8

I shocked if Towns averages 12/8/2

At worst 10 & 7 in 20 something crucial minutes in year 1 and grow from there

You're right about Boogie. But you see my point. Boogie was stronger than Towns and Davis was more skilled and athletic going into their rookie years. It will take Towns at least a year to get stronger and learn how to play NBA defense.

Yep and we got all the time in the world to watch them develop. Assuming we don't trade the pick we are going to have a lot to look forward to. Watching the Knicks will be fun again