Knicks · Enes Kanter is becoming my number 1 free agent (page 9)

2 way possibilities? This guy is abominable defensively.

i like kanter alot too. ive always liked his offensive potential. its his defense..in UTAH that bothered me (no i simply cant dismiss 3 whole seasons in utah). he was disinterested and lazy. he defense has improved from allergic to willing on OKC. id like him on the knicks...im just not ready to call him a franchise player. i feel like hes a product of his environment...if hes around losers hell play like a loser...if hes around winners hell play better. right now we have the worst record in basketball - so im worried about his attitude

TPercy wrote:2 way possibilities? This guy is abominable defensively.

No its not and he has potential to be a good defender

http://www.sbnation.com/2015/4/8/8370347...

Kanter joined the Thunder with a terrible defensive reputation and has done nothing to dispel that notion over the past couple months. He's among the weakest shot-blockers in the league at his position despite being nearly 7 feet tall and rarely shows the effort or instincts to be an effective team defender.

callmened wrote:http://www.sbnation.com/2015/4/8/8370347...

Kanter joined the Thunder with a terrible defensive reputation and has done nothing to dispel that notion over the past couple months. He's among the weakest shot-blockers in the league at his position despite being nearly 7 feet tall and rarely shows the effort or instincts to be an effective team defender.

Of course when you lose your shot blocking C your defense will suffer. Enes Kanter or most 7 footers dont have a chance to guard Tony Patker or James Harden. Enes Kanter is a 4 who can play 5 on occasion but hes a post scorer who can hit the 18 footer and rebound as good as anyone in the league at 22 years old. The entire OKC team has no style of play right now--they simply hand it to Westbrook and he plays out of control. There is no management to the game at all. I watch them all the time--Enes Kanter is not Bill Russell but his defense is not bad at all. Enes is a guy who can get you 25-15 in the post. I think in a good system he would be a good passer--I've seen it. Hes got immense potential to give a team a staple of 20-10 from the 4 position for 10 years. Its up to the team to balance the talent in the line up. Enes would dominate teams in the smaller east.

im not here to change your mind BRIGGS. at this point, im just posting info about Enes Kanter for others to see and make up their mind. When i watch him, i see a gifted offensive big man with a nice soft touch and tenacious on the glass. I also see a guy who dogs it on the defensive and gets lost with defensive rotations (by the way, thats the case with all OKC players. brooks is an awful coach who needs to be fired). This guy seems like a 3rd and 4th option who's horrible defense needs to be hidden or surrounded by great defenders

callmened wrote:im not here to change your mind BRIGGS. at this point, im just posting info about Enes Kanter for others to see and make up their mind. When i watch him, i see a gifted offensive big man with a nice soft touch and tenacious on the glass. I also see a guy who dogs it on the defensive and gets lost with defensive rotations (by the way, thats the case with all OKC players. brooks is an awful coach who needs to be fired). This guy seems like a 3rd and 4th option who's horrible defense needs to be hidden or surrounded by great defenders

maybe brooks is a bad coach but Kanter was an awful defensive player for Utah. He may not get much better.

callmened wrote:im not here to change your mind BRIGGS. at this point, im just posting info about Enes Kanter for others to see and make up their mind. When i watch him, i see a gifted offensive big man with a nice soft touch and tenacious on the glass. I also see a guy who dogs it on the defensive and gets lost with defensive rotations (by the way, thats the case with all OKC players. brooks is an awful coach who needs to be fired). This guy seems like a 3rd and 4th option who's horrible defense needs to be hidden or surrounded by great defenders

Hes a pure 1 post option who will just keep getting better in there. Hes a guy you can throw the ball into the post and score at a 60% clip who is also a top 3 rebounder in this league. If we get Okafor--Id say lets look to OKC to see if theyd be interested in trading Ibaka(if hes ok) but they cant keep all those players.

BRIGGS wrote:

callmened wrote:im not here to change your mind BRIGGS. at this point, im just posting info about Enes Kanter for others to see and make up their mind. When i watch him, i see a gifted offensive big man with a nice soft touch and tenacious on the glass. I also see a guy who dogs it on the defensive and gets lost with defensive rotations (by the way, thats the case with all OKC players. brooks is an awful coach who needs to be fired). This guy seems like a 3rd and 4th option who's horrible defense needs to be hidden or surrounded by great defenders

Hes a pure 1 post option who will just keep getting better in there. Hes a guy you can throw the ball into the post and score at a 60% clip who is also a top 3 rebounder in this league. If we get Okafor--Id say lets look to OKC to see if theyd be interested in trading Ibaka(if hes ok) but they cant keep all those players.

thats where i agree. put kanter next to okafor or towns and that can work. he has expanded his perimeter game and can even put it on the floor. in the right system, he can average 17ppg & 12rebs. the only question is his defense. but if u put him with a good interior defender and wings that can hold their own.

callmened wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

callmened wrote:im not here to change your mind BRIGGS. at this point, im just posting info about Enes Kanter for others to see and make up their mind. When i watch him, i see a gifted offensive big man with a nice soft touch and tenacious on the glass. I also see a guy who dogs it on the defensive and gets lost with defensive rotations (by the way, thats the case with all OKC players. brooks is an awful coach who needs to be fired). This guy seems like a 3rd and 4th option who's horrible defense needs to be hidden or surrounded by great defenders

Hes a pure 1 post option who will just keep getting better in there. Hes a guy you can throw the ball into the post and score at a 60% clip who is also a top 3 rebounder in this league. If we get Okafor--Id say lets look to OKC to see if theyd be interested in trading Ibaka(if hes ok) but they cant keep all those players.

thats where i agree. put kanter next to okafor or towns and that can work. he has expanded his perimeter game and can even put it on the floor. in the right system, he can average 17ppg & 12rebs. the only question is his defense. but if u put him with a good interior defender and wings that can hold their own.

IMHO I think it would behoove the Knicks to get one of Monroe Kanter or Lopez. Were not getting Leonard et al that stupid--the Knicks know the guys they have a shot with guys like Gasol Aldridge etc..no shot they do have a shot with Monroe(although Detroit will likely max him and hes not passing 34mm $ up)They have a shot with Kanter(I dont think OKC would match) and then we have a chance with Lopez(but risk comes with it) We "should" have a good young post player even if its off the bench Im happy with either or Towns or Ok4 and really there about neck and neck there. Then Kaminsky is a wild card if we trade down a tad. So we should be much better in the middle next year.

BRIGGS wrote:

callmened wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

callmened wrote:im not here to change your mind BRIGGS. at this point, im just posting info about Enes Kanter for others to see and make up their mind. When i watch him, i see a gifted offensive big man with a nice soft touch and tenacious on the glass. I also see a guy who dogs it on the defensive and gets lost with defensive rotations (by the way, thats the case with all OKC players. brooks is an awful coach who needs to be fired). This guy seems like a 3rd and 4th option who's horrible defense needs to be hidden or surrounded by great defenders

Hes a pure 1 post option who will just keep getting better in there. Hes a guy you can throw the ball into the post and score at a 60% clip who is also a top 3 rebounder in this league. If we get Okafor--Id say lets look to OKC to see if theyd be interested in trading Ibaka(if hes ok) but they cant keep all those players.

thats where i agree. put kanter next to okafor or towns and that can work. he has expanded his perimeter game and can even put it on the floor. in the right system, he can average 17ppg & 12rebs. the only question is his defense. but if u put him with a good interior defender and wings that can hold their own.

IMHO I think it would behoove the Knicks to get one of Monroe Kanter or Lopez. Were not getting Leonard et al that stupid--the Knicks know the guys they have a shot with guys like Gasol Aldridge etc..no shot they do have a shot with Monroe(although Detroit will likely max him and hes not passing 34mm $ up)They have a shot with Kanter(I dont think OKC would match) and then we have a chance with Lopez(but risk comes with it) We "should" have a good young post player even if its off the bench Im happy with either or Towns or Ok4 and really there about neck and neck there. Then Kaminsky is a wild card if we trade down a tad. So we should be much better in the middle next year.

You seem to value offense far more than defense. There is an argument for that in the advanced stats world.

Also, you assume that we are getting Towns or Ok4 in your posts but there is a 50% chance that we won't.

just curious ... was Bropez a guy that you touted out of college? You seem to be like Dolan ... that you stick with your guys no matter what

mreinman wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

callmened wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

callmened wrote:im not here to change your mind BRIGGS. at this point, im just posting info about Enes Kanter for others to see and make up their mind. When i watch him, i see a gifted offensive big man with a nice soft touch and tenacious on the glass. I also see a guy who dogs it on the defensive and gets lost with defensive rotations (by the way, thats the case with all OKC players. brooks is an awful coach who needs to be fired). This guy seems like a 3rd and 4th option who's horrible defense needs to be hidden or surrounded by great defenders

Hes a pure 1 post option who will just keep getting better in there. Hes a guy you can throw the ball into the post and score at a 60% clip who is also a top 3 rebounder in this league. If we get Okafor--Id say lets look to OKC to see if theyd be interested in trading Ibaka(if hes ok) but they cant keep all those players.

thats where i agree. put kanter next to okafor or towns and that can work. he has expanded his perimeter game and can even put it on the floor. in the right system, he can average 17ppg & 12rebs. the only question is his defense. but if u put him with a good interior defender and wings that can hold their own.

IMHO I think it would behoove the Knicks to get one of Monroe Kanter or Lopez. Were not getting Leonard et al that stupid--the Knicks know the guys they have a shot with guys like Gasol Aldridge etc..no shot they do have a shot with Monroe(although Detroit will likely max him and hes not passing 34mm $ up)They have a shot with Kanter(I dont think OKC would match) and then we have a chance with Lopez(but risk comes with it) We "should" have a good young post player even if its off the bench Im happy with either or Towns or Ok4 and really there about neck and neck there. Then Kaminsky is a wild card if we trade down a tad. So we should be much better in the middle next year.

You seem to value offense far more than defense. There is an argument for that in the advanced stats world.

Also, you assume that we are getting Towns or Ok4 in your posts but there is a 50% chance that we won't.

just curious ... was Bropez a guy that you touted out of college? You seem to be like Dolan ... that you stick with your guys no matter what

Yep I wanted Lopez in that draft.

BRIGGS wrote:

mreinman wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

callmened wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

callmened wrote:im not here to change your mind BRIGGS. at this point, im just posting info about Enes Kanter for others to see and make up their mind. When i watch him, i see a gifted offensive big man with a nice soft touch and tenacious on the glass. I also see a guy who dogs it on the defensive and gets lost with defensive rotations (by the way, thats the case with all OKC players. brooks is an awful coach who needs to be fired). This guy seems like a 3rd and 4th option who's horrible defense needs to be hidden or surrounded by great defenders

Hes a pure 1 post option who will just keep getting better in there. Hes a guy you can throw the ball into the post and score at a 60% clip who is also a top 3 rebounder in this league. If we get Okafor--Id say lets look to OKC to see if theyd be interested in trading Ibaka(if hes ok) but they cant keep all those players.

thats where i agree. put kanter next to okafor or towns and that can work. he has expanded his perimeter game and can even put it on the floor. in the right system, he can average 17ppg & 12rebs. the only question is his defense. but if u put him with a good interior defender and wings that can hold their own.

IMHO I think it would behoove the Knicks to get one of Monroe Kanter or Lopez. Were not getting Leonard et al that stupid--the Knicks know the guys they have a shot with guys like Gasol Aldridge etc..no shot they do have a shot with Monroe(although Detroit will likely max him and hes not passing 34mm $ up)They have a shot with Kanter(I dont think OKC would match) and then we have a chance with Lopez(but risk comes with it) We "should" have a good young post player even if its off the bench Im happy with either or Towns or Ok4 and really there about neck and neck there. Then Kaminsky is a wild card if we trade down a tad. So we should be much better in the middle next year.

You seem to value offense far more than defense. There is an argument for that in the advanced stats world.

Also, you assume that we are getting Towns or Ok4 in your posts but there is a 50% chance that we won't.

just curious ... was Bropez a guy that you touted out of college? You seem to be like Dolan ... that you stick with your guys no matter what

Yep I wanted Lopez in that draft.

That was the smart pick.

To my mind, it is very difficult to build a team that has its offensive focus from the bigs in today's game. You look at the best teams - GSW, Cleveland, Atlanta, Houston, OKC when healthy, LAC, WAS, etc - most of them get their offense from the perimeter and focus on defense and rebounding inside.

Which teams have a focus on their bigs scoring? Portland, Chicago, Memphis. Not too many others. You could argue San Antonio, but they play their best when Parker is their best player.

The number of good teams teams built around inside scorers who can't defend well? I'd say it's near zero.

It's a difficult path to pursue. The NBA now favors lightning quick PGs who can shoot, swing men who play the 2-3-4 and shoot and a good defensive center. aka what we had in Woodson's best season.

I like Kanter and Monroe okay as players, but I don't see much success with them. Hard to build a team like that.

I'd draft Towns, if possible, and try to build a defensive power team around Melo and try to upgrade the PG to someone quicker.

I sort of feel like Greg Monroe is the guy the Knicks can get in FA and so will get no matter what. I wouldn't trust him to defend my coffee but que sera.

Look how skilled this guy is--come on? His potential even above this level is high. He can move around as a mobile 5-4 who has a nose for the ball who can rebound with anyone in the league. In the east Kanter would simply dominate.

according to OKC fans, forums, podcast, and beat reporters...they absolutely HATE this guys lack of defense. they call it the worst in the league. One example was how on one defensive rotation vs dallas (in that high scoring close game), he rotated to cover a wide open rondo instead of challenging the wide open dirk. they blame their recent struggles on the fact that ibaka isnt there to cover up his horrible defense. the general consensus of OKC is they HOPE they get rid of him but their worried that theyll keep him. Like i said, if hes available i wouldnt mind him on my team. as long as we surround him (hide him) with defensive players

callmened wrote:according to OKC fans, forums, podcast, and beat reporters...they absolutely HATE this guys lack of defense. they call it the worst in the league. One example was how on one defensive rotation vs dallas (in that high scoring close game), he rotated to cover a wide open rondo instead of challenging the wide open dirk. they blame their recent struggles on the fact that ibaka isnt there to cover up his horrible defense. the general consensus of OKC is they HOPE they get rid of him but their worried that theyll keep him. Like i said, if hes available i wouldnt mind him on my team. as long as we surround him (hide him) with defensive players

Knater has all the skills to be an all star 4 man. In the east he would be a dominate low post scorer. Now I wouldnt do an Okafor/ Kanter combination--but IF I get anything other than pick #2 meaning 1 -3-4--there is no change in my opinion and I have watched Kanter A LOT.
If you are looking for Kanter to be all team first defense--not happening. But there is no reason why he cannot be a nice part of a team defensive concept. Hes mobile pretty athletic for 260 and he plays hard. To spend an offseason with him working on defensive fundamentals is easy--the HARD part is teaching anyone is innate offensives skills. At the end of the day--if you cant throw the ball into the post and score--you are not winning big in the playoffs. And worse--if we dont get a big skilled guy--Boston will and they already have a lot in place. Then Boston has 3 7 footers and 4 quality guards all under 25 that we will have to contain with building up to. We are WAY WAY WAY behind some of these teams. If you wathced Kanter--you have to believe he will work hard in the offseason to improve his D--he plays hard. He runs the court. One thing if he didnt do that--but he does.

You know what this reminds me of Dirk Nowitski--for a long time Dirk was thought of as a "bad" defender" but when they won a chip--they played a quality brand of team defense. You cant win in the NBA without guys who can get you 22-28 points. The odds of having ANY ability to get a player like this at 22 is RARE indeed. This guy scores 25 points pretty easily and he does it from the 3 pt line in--that will expand over time--this guy could be an offensive juggernaut type 4. He just needs to learn to play a brand of D within a system and its NUTS to think he cant do it.

BRIGGS wrote:

Look how skilled this guy is--come on? His potential even above this level is high. He can move around as a mobile 5-4 who has a nose for the ball who can rebound with anyone in the league. In the east Kanter would simply dominate.

Great clip. He looks very polished. He sets a decent screen.

Look at 1:25 to 1:30 he runs step for step up the floor with Westbrook--thats great speed for a big guy--tell me one reason why he could not apply that athletic speed and size to become a good defender? Maybe hes a little awkward defensively right now--hes a big guy and hed be guarding smaller guys. But the main concept of defense is stay with your man and no reason he cant do that. He runs the floor way better than David Lee and hes 2+ inches taller and 15 pounds heavier. Just need to put him in the right position. Hes so young he can still absorb coaching as well.

Can he learn defense? Sure he's still young. Do we have the defense to hide him? No. Or at least not yet

He just strikes me as a talent that would flourish in the right environment. Just not sure we have the right environment

callmened wrote:Can he learn defense? Sure he's still young. Do we have the defense to hide him? No. Or at least not yet

He just strikes me as a talent that would flourish in the right environment. Just not sure we have the right environment

Actually we have no environment. If I can start with two guys who can give me 25 points--one guy who can rebound the ball--then I can work at other positions. I think Kanter can bully teams in the east from the 4. We cant score points we need a guy we can throw the ball into and can get two. The nice part is hye can step out and aslo hit the 18 footer and hes an 80% FT shooter. Its MUCH easier to work with that then buying a Jason Smith for cheap and hoping he plays well. Kanter is a lock for 20-25 points 10-12 rebounds and 55% every night. In this case if they want to trade down and get a Stein if they are not 1--then we can do that. There are things we can do. This guy is an all star offensive player and rebounder. If he was playing with Ibaka at C and Durant at 3 BANG theres OKC's low post scorer they never had. Here it is--if we DO NOT do something like this--we will continually be behind in talent. HIGHER end talent wins--figure out the role players later. Im not 100% on Kanter but how can he not be high on the list. Who else we acquiring? Spend 8mm on 11 point Danny Green who feeds of the SA system> disaster signing in the making.