tell me how we are winning more than 30 games next year if we're actually playing Bargnani now?
Because why? He is getting an audition? For whom? Us or other teams?
If us, are we seriously thinking he can contribute next year?
If yes, our management is batshit crazy and should be fired faster than you can say Stephon Marbury and Stevie Franchise, backcourt of champions!
If other teams, Why?
Is there no other NBDL player out there that we can, to Briggs point, audition for a role on this squad? Is there no Hassan White Size or Mozgov out there? Some tall, space filling ball player who, if given the chance, show he can play a contributing role on an NBA franchise?
Or are we sold on Cole Aldrich & Jason Smith?
Yes, I guess you bring bargs back- but no way we pay more than vet min for 1 year. If his agent says he has an offer for more elsewhere, wish him luck and go find the first undrafted 6'10" or taller NCAA 4 year player, even if its at a Div 3 school.
I'd say he returns and his price is already been agreed upon.
How do I come to this conclusion?
If not, we just waive him otherwise? Why give him minutes otherwise?
I think if he was healthy earlier he could have been showcased and traded.
I dont' know any of this but its just logic. I don't care how much we will pay him, its not my job to set his value nor understand what it is.
Do I think he gets healthy? Maybe we figured how his problem and set a course for him. COuld be sleep problems, autoimmune (fatigue athletes get injured more), depression, dietary, etc etc.......
Maybe Phil in his system value him higher as well.
Im not gonna freak out. If healthy (lots of athletes go thru bad spells and recover) he is a prototypical 4 and can stretch the floor. That would be a huge asset for us.
We could sign Monroe and draft Russell.
WE get top 2 picks, flip a coin as to who to take. Sign Butler then.
None of this pie in the sky stuff.
WaltLongmire wrote:Cost and durability issues have to be considered...but he seems like the perfect fit for this offense.
Will be take a minimal amount of $$ to play in a system that clearly fits his skill set?
The catch22 is that the more he shows his value to the Knicks, the more his value to other teams increases, and there is no way that I would enter into any kind of bidding war for him if I'm the Knicks.
Keep if cheap...walk away if he wants too much pay.
Walt--how could Bargnanai get less than 5-6mm and 2-3 years? Hes avg 15 points and hes 7 feet tall. Think about any team who is over the cap-- let me see 5-6mm or these other guys who will get minimum 12mm for the same stats. Jason Smith got 3.5mm for 1 and Bargs is 3X better.
He seems to play well when he is the focal point of the offense, but even then he is not always engaged at a level a winning team needs. With his injury history and spotty effort when he is healthy, heis fools gold and it's time to let him walk. He has the talent but not the drive it takes to win. Even the vet min is to much for him.
Lets try to keep this in perspective. We're going to be adding some more front line talent and that will push Bargs further down the rotation to a more comfortable spot. He's not going to be alone like he is now. The idea is to have him be part of a more potent rotation. As a scorer off the bench he's be just fine IMO. People have to get over their hate for the guy and think practically about what he is as a player and how he can fit into the overall scheme. Most 6th and 7th men in a rotation are somewhat less consistently at their best and it's better to have them coming off the bench than to rely on them as starters.
Bargs mixed in with a bunch of good players is going to be pretty effective IMO. Defenses tend to lose track of Bargs which is how he's so open all the time. When he's healthy and in mid season form he's a problem for defenses cuz he's a skilled offensive player with Center size. People think that guys like that just grow on trees but they don't.
If the team was capped out now and for the foreseeable future I would just let Bargs go. Some want to offer him the league minimum, others 6 mil per year. I would split the difference and offer somewhere between 2-3 mill for 2 years and a team option on a third, if that's doable.
Not enough to put us in cap trouble, but hopefully enough to keep him here. If he had stayed healthy this season, and the season before that he would be worth more. If he passes give Bargs some lovely parting gifts and the home version of the game.
League min? Maybe. More? No. Maybe some sucker will give him more, or even far more as Briggs is suggesting, but that's fine with me.
Bonn1997 wrote:League min? Maybe. More? No. Maybe some sucker will give him more, or even far more as Briggs is suggesting, but that's fine with me.
That sucker might turnout to be Fisher. He is going to push really hard to have Bargnani back next year
Vmart wrote:newyorker4ever wrote:Panos wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:Never was a fan of him or the trade. I understand he has played well the last 20 games of the seasn but he is too injury prone to offer anything more than a vet minimum conract. Id let him go
Agreed. Bargs is super soft. How is it that this is his first stretch of decent ball in the whole time he has been here? Coincidence? He wants to get paid. Worse than a contract year. He's having a contract month. A step above Jerome James. I pass.
This isn't his first stretch of decent ball since he's been with the Knicks. He produced in points whenever he was healthy for us. He played just as good as he's been playing recently for us last year when he was healthy. If we can get him cheap then he's definitely worth having but i wouldn't go out of the way to try and beat other teams offers. His one on one defense isn't that bad but his team defense and help defense is pretty bad.
I agree if the Knicks can get him on the cheap. Something like 5-8 million per year.
Whoa 5-8 million per?? Like 3/4 million per and is more like it. He just raped us for 11.5 this year and another 11.5 last year so he can give us a good deal next year.
mreinman wrote:newyorker4ever wrote:Panos wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:Never was a fan of him or the trade. I understand he has played well the last 20 games of the seasn but he is too injury prone to offer anything more than a vet minimum conract. Id let him go
Agreed. Bargs is super soft. How is it that this is his first stretch of decent ball in the whole time he has been here? Coincidence? He wants to get paid. Worse than a contract year. He's having a contract month. A step above Jerome James. I pass.
This isn't his first stretch of decent ball since he's been with the Knicks. He produced in points whenever he was healthy for us. He played just as good as he's been playing recently for us last year when he was healthy. If we can get him cheap then he's definitely worth having but i wouldn't go out of the way to try and beat other teams offers. His one on one defense isn't that bad but his team defense and help defense is pretty bad.
if he has played well when he was healthy, why are his stats so friggin ugly?
Now I see the mindset with how some wanted this trade to begin with ... ignoring the obvious
Obviously you didn't watch every game last year because if you did like i did you would of seen it with your own eyes that he was scoring 15-18 points almost every game. You guys have to get over the fact that the Bargs trade was horrible and we paid his butt 11.5 million a year and that he's injured a lot because if we can get him for a cheap contract then he'd be a perfect fit for what we're looking for in the triangle. Quit looking at the past and look to the future.
martin wrote:WaltLongmire wrote:Cost and durability issues have to be considered...but he seems like the perfect fit for this offense.
Will be take a minimal amount of $$ to play in a system that clearly fits his skill set?
The catch22 is that the more he shows his value to the Knicks, the more his value to other teams increases, and there is no way that I would enter into any kind of bidding war for him if I'm the Knicks.
Keep if cheap...walk away if he wants too much pay.
yeah, this is where I am. He's obviously an off-the-bench guy for low cost.
Yep i'm with both of you on the fact that no way is he worth a bidding war and he's definitely someone for the bench and not a starter.
3-4m at best in my opinion, if not just move on
newyorker4ever wrote:mreinman wrote:newyorker4ever wrote:Panos wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:Never was a fan of him or the trade. I understand he has played well the last 20 games of the seasn but he is too injury prone to offer anything more than a vet minimum conract. Id let him go
Agreed. Bargs is super soft. How is it that this is his first stretch of decent ball in the whole time he has been here? Coincidence? He wants to get paid. Worse than a contract year. He's having a contract month. A step above Jerome James. I pass.
This isn't his first stretch of decent ball since he's been with the Knicks. He produced in points whenever he was healthy for us. He played just as good as he's been playing recently for us last year when he was healthy. If we can get him cheap then he's definitely worth having but i wouldn't go out of the way to try and beat other teams offers. His one on one defense isn't that bad but his team defense and help defense is pretty bad.
if he has played well when he was healthy, why are his stats so friggin ugly?
Now I see the mindset with how some wanted this trade to begin with ... ignoring the obvious
Obviously you didn't watch every game last year because if you did like i did you would of seen it with your own eyes that he was scoring 15-18 points almost every game. You guys have to get over the fact that the Bargs trade was horrible and we paid his butt 11.5 million a year and that he's injured a lot because if we can get him for a cheap contract then he'd be a perfect fit for what we're looking for in the triangle. Quit looking at the past and look to the future.
the future requires defense and rebounding
newyorker4ever wrote:mreinman wrote:newyorker4ever wrote:Panos wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:Never was a fan of him or the trade. I understand he has played well the last 20 games of the seasn but he is too injury prone to offer anything more than a vet minimum conract. Id let him go
Agreed. Bargs is super soft. How is it that this is his first stretch of decent ball in the whole time he has been here? Coincidence? He wants to get paid. Worse than a contract year. He's having a contract month. A step above Jerome James. I pass.
This isn't his first stretch of decent ball since he's been with the Knicks. He produced in points whenever he was healthy for us. He played just as good as he's been playing recently for us last year when he was healthy. If we can get him cheap then he's definitely worth having but i wouldn't go out of the way to try and beat other teams offers. His one on one defense isn't that bad but his team defense and help defense is pretty bad.
if he has played well when he was healthy, why are his stats so friggin ugly?
Now I see the mindset with how some wanted this trade to begin with ... ignoring the obvious
Obviously you didn't watch every game last year because if you did like i did you would of seen it with your own eyes that he was scoring 15-18 points almost every game. You guys have to get over the fact that the Bargs trade was horrible and we paid his butt 11.5 million a year and that he's injured a lot because if we can get him for a cheap contract then he'd be a perfect fit for what we're looking for in the triangle. Quit looking at the past and look to the future.
If a guy scores 15-18 points a game then how does he only average 13?
Also, who gives a damn about points? That is what happens when you watch with your eyes. You get enamored by the wrong things.
Bargs stinks this year and he stunk last year too (and that was when he played)
Vet min if we can't do better for the price. Otherwise move on.
Seriously guys, it's not like he's a rookie; we have a large amount of data about what he can do. That data is unequivocal: he can't do much.
Except score inefficiently. He's good at that.
It almost doesn't matter what happens with Bargs. Phil is gonna have so many more pressing issues to deal with, that Bargs is gonna be way down the list of priorities. Phil has to put together an NBA quality top 6 rotation and he's gonna be working hard to sign bigger free agents. Only after he's gotten the players he thinks he needs to win will he address guys like Bargs. If Bargs is gone by then I don't think Phil is gonna lose sleep over that. There are just too many Free Agents out there to be worried about one player coming off your bench.
markvmc wrote:Vet min if we can't do better for the price. Otherwise move on. Seriously guys, it's not like he's a rookie; we have a large amount of data about what he can do. That data is unequivocal: he can't do much.
Except score inefficiently. He's good at that.
hes going to get 5mm+ bucks from a team--and there is NO doubt about it. It will be a wait and see but its a no brainer. If Jason Smith got 3.5mm than Bargnani is getting 5-6mm.
BRIGGS wrote:WaltLongmire wrote:Cost and durability issues have to be considered...but he seems like the perfect fit for this offense.
Will be take a minimal amount of $$ to play in a system that clearly fits his skill set?
The catch22 is that the more he shows his value to the Knicks, the more his value to other teams increases, and there is no way that I would enter into any kind of bidding war for him if I'm the Knicks.
Keep if cheap...walk away if he wants too much pay.
Walt--how could Bargnanai get less than 5-6mm and 2-3 years? Hes avg 15 points and hes 7 feet tall. Think about any team who is over the cap-- let me see 5-6mm or these other guys who will get minimum 12mm for the same stats. Jason Smith got 3.5mm for 1 and Bargs is 3X better.
He would clearly have to take less from the Knicks, I would assume. I don't know how Jackson will deal with the guys we have playing now, and how much he is willing to spend on them. Will it depend on who we are able to pickup as a FA... will Phil just let anyone we have now go out on the free market and then deal with them when value is establised?
I don't really know much about Barg's personality. Maybe he stays for less if he feels comfortable here. NYC has its perks for certain folks, and he's in an offense he seems to feel comfortable with.
The Knicks could have cut him when he was injured, which might have hurt his value and made it difficult for him to latch on to another team, instead they chose to keep him around and play him when he was healthy enough. Maybe this means something to him.
You just have to have a limit, and I may not want to pay true market value for him, even though I probably like him more than some folks around here do.
WaltLongmire wrote:BRIGGS wrote:WaltLongmire wrote:Cost and durability issues have to be considered...but he seems like the perfect fit for this offense.
Will be take a minimal amount of $$ to play in a system that clearly fits his skill set?
The catch22 is that the more he shows his value to the Knicks, the more his value to other teams increases, and there is no way that I would enter into any kind of bidding war for him if I'm the Knicks.
Keep if cheap...walk away if he wants too much pay.
Walt--how could Bargnanai get less than 5-6mm and 2-3 years? Hes avg 15 points and hes 7 feet tall. Think about any team who is over the cap-- let me see 5-6mm or these other guys who will get minimum 12mm for the same stats. Jason Smith got 3.5mm for 1 and Bargs is 3X better.
He would clearly have to take less from the Knicks, I would assume. I don't know how Jackson will deal with the guys we have playing now, and how much he is willing to spend on them. Will it depend on who we are able to pickup as a FA... will Phil just let anyone we have now go out on the free market and then deal with them when value is establised?
I don't really know much about Barg's personality. Maybe he stays for less if he feels comfortable here. NYC has its perks for certain folks, and he's in an offense he seems to feel comfortable with.
The Knicks could have cut him when he was injured, which might have hurt his value and made it difficult for him to latch on to another team, instead they chose to keep him around and play him when he was healthy enough. Maybe this means something to him.
You just have to have a limit, and I may not want to pay true market value for him, even though I probably like him more than some folks around here do.
The market for a player like Bargs is the MLE. It doesnt matter whether we like him or not. If someone offers him 12mm for 2 years and we offer 3 for 1--then he wont be here. Same thing with almost any player. If we get cheap with Schveyd--he could also easily be gone. The Knicks may have got lucky he was hurt. The more people who leave the more holes that must be filled--its cut and dry.
. I think he did fine in his 35 games or so--he stayed healthy and played pretty well for what he does--some of these guys dont realize that a 7 footer who has the capability to go 20-8-3-2 games who can average 15-16 a night shooting 45% is a good step above the vet minimum. there is no player in the NBA making vet minimum or even close to it with bargs output.
Andrea Bargnani ruin everything. He won't show up until lately because of his contact and recently harm the tank route. What the reason you want this guy back?
Hopefully saying sayonara to him this off-season because we have 9 years of data that tells us he is terrible at basketball.
