Knicks · Will Okafor's game translate in the NBA???? (page 3)
blkexec wrote:Here's my beef with your post and all similar posts. Your essentially putting OK4's offense and Town's defense in the same category as their strengths, and as far as I am concerned they are not even close to equal. You say OK4 has to learn to defend when he has fouls, but Towns doesnt do that. He just picks up more fouls. Before he went off against ND being guarded single man guarded by a guy who was 6'6, Towns scored 9 points and had 8 fouls in the combined in the two games prior. Do we ignore that data? Towns averages a foul every 7 minutes and 5 per 36... and this is a guy who's CALLING CARD to the NBA is defense.fishmike wrote:SupremeCommander wrote:Towns does? Know I know this is a bit tongue and cheek, but before the ND game Towns had 8 PFs and 9 points in the prior two tourney games combined. His PFs per 36 minutes are well over 5 per game.fishmike wrote:SupremeCommander wrote:Okafor will be just fine. He'll have a better career than Boozer or Laettner or Brand. I do think I want Towns more now though, which I wasn't expecting to saythey are both very good prospects and bring different things to the table.At this point you have some guys that dont want to discuss anything. They just want to make sure their golden mooby is shined and sparkling. I dont really get the point. We should have 5 guys targeted because we dont know where we are picking. I think some of the guards have higher upside.
I agree with that. I think both are slightly limited. Towns excels on the defensive end (but not at rebounding) and Okafor has a ton of offensive skill AND polish
I really, really like Russell. I really, really like Justice Winslow (I see a Paul George type.. more of a SG than SF though).
I won't pretend to know anything about the kid from the Congo but he is certainly intriguing.
I find it funny that OK4 is the best player on a title team and has all these concerns. Meanwhile Towns is the 4th scorer and 2nd rebounder on a team with half the players declaring for the draft but will be fine because he "excels at everything" or is this great great defensive player... who cant stay out of foul trouble, when he's the physically dominating his peers.
It just tells me people have made their choice, and are now simply posting to back up their choice, not to talk about the players anymore. Hasheem Thabeet was a great defender also... and much bigger and longer than Towns.
Eventhough I think Towns is far ahead of Thabeet when they were the same age.....and even now. It's also a good example of players not reaching their potential.
If Towns doesn't reach his offensive potential, then you have a solid 7foot defender with lateral quickness off the bench.
If OK4 doesn't reach his defensive potential, what do you have? Mike Sweetney? A big body who can score under the basket, but is a liability on defense?
Potential goes up or down...Both players have risks. It depends on how much risk can we afford on offense and defense. If Phil prefers defense, then he will take the offensive risk of Towns. If it was Mike Danphoni, then he would exempt the defensive risk of OK4.
I think OK4 has flashes of defense, better than he's shown in the past....Or maybe I finally watched an entire game. His defense suffers when he's in foul trouble. He's non existent. But you have to learn how to play defense, even in foul trouble. Also, Duke has a better defensive system and better wing defenders to hide OK4. Kentucky doesn't have any bigs with a low post game to hide Towns...Towns is their best offensive post player, eventhough he's a project.
What am I saying?
I don't know....just rambling because I'm ready to go home!
But hey.. no red flags there
He's a spaz. He's got some great skills and size, but if you want to see Town's play at both ends and stay on the floor you have to look at his high school games, because he so very rarely did that at KY.
I mean in these games OK4 struggled they ran 2-3 guys at him every possesion. Teams prefered to play 3-4 rather than let OK4 beat them. Thats still letting OK4 beat you.
fishmike wrote:blkexec wrote:Here's my beef with your post and all similar posts. Your essentially putting OK4's offense and Town's defense in the same category as their strengths, and as far as I am concerned they are not even close to equal. You say OK4 has to learn to defend when he has fouls, but Towns doesnt do that. He just picks up more fouls. Before he went off against ND being guarded single man guarded by a guy who was 6'6, Towns scored 9 points and had 8 fouls in the combined in the two games prior. Do we ignore that data? Towns averages a foul every 7 minutes and 5 per 36... and this is a guy who's CALLING CARD to the NBA is defense.fishmike wrote:SupremeCommander wrote:Towns does? Know I know this is a bit tongue and cheek, but before the ND game Towns had 8 PFs and 9 points in the prior two tourney games combined. His PFs per 36 minutes are well over 5 per game.fishmike wrote:SupremeCommander wrote:Okafor will be just fine. He'll have a better career than Boozer or Laettner or Brand. I do think I want Towns more now though, which I wasn't expecting to saythey are both very good prospects and bring different things to the table.At this point you have some guys that dont want to discuss anything. They just want to make sure their golden mooby is shined and sparkling. I dont really get the point. We should have 5 guys targeted because we dont know where we are picking. I think some of the guards have higher upside.
I agree with that. I think both are slightly limited. Towns excels on the defensive end (but not at rebounding) and Okafor has a ton of offensive skill AND polish
I really, really like Russell. I really, really like Justice Winslow (I see a Paul George type.. more of a SG than SF though).
I won't pretend to know anything about the kid from the Congo but he is certainly intriguing.
I find it funny that OK4 is the best player on a title team and has all these concerns. Meanwhile Towns is the 4th scorer and 2nd rebounder on a team with half the players declaring for the draft but will be fine because he "excels at everything" or is this great great defensive player... who cant stay out of foul trouble, when he's the physically dominating his peers.
It just tells me people have made their choice, and are now simply posting to back up their choice, not to talk about the players anymore. Hasheem Thabeet was a great defender also... and much bigger and longer than Towns.
Eventhough I think Towns is far ahead of Thabeet when they were the same age.....and even now. It's also a good example of players not reaching their potential.
If Towns doesn't reach his offensive potential, then you have a solid 7foot defender with lateral quickness off the bench.
If OK4 doesn't reach his defensive potential, what do you have? Mike Sweetney? A big body who can score under the basket, but is a liability on defense?
Potential goes up or down...Both players have risks. It depends on how much risk can we afford on offense and defense. If Phil prefers defense, then he will take the offensive risk of Towns. If it was Mike Danphoni, then he would exempt the defensive risk of OK4.
I think OK4 has flashes of defense, better than he's shown in the past....Or maybe I finally watched an entire game. His defense suffers when he's in foul trouble. He's non existent. But you have to learn how to play defense, even in foul trouble. Also, Duke has a better defensive system and better wing defenders to hide OK4. Kentucky doesn't have any bigs with a low post game to hide Towns...Towns is their best offensive post player, eventhough he's a project.
What am I saying?
I don't know....just rambling because I'm ready to go home!
But hey.. no red flags there
He's a spaz. He's got some great skills and size, but if you want to see Town's play at both ends and stay on the floor you have to look at his high school games, because he so very rarely did that at KY.
I mean in these games OK4 struggled they ran 2-3 guys at him every possesion. Teams prefered to play 3-4 rather than let OK4 beat them. Thats still letting OK4 beat you.
Not sure how you get that Towns is a "spaz". His low-post game looked sharp to me - quick, agile, soft-touch. Give him a summer camp or two with The Dream, and I think he could become an elite post-scorer. He can shoot with range. He has a pretty good handle for a big (not Kaminsky-like, but good enough). He has impeccable shot-blocking skills, great team defensive instincts, great catch-up velocity, an apparent hunger to excel and enough athleticism to exploit that hunger.
Spaz? Might be a bit of an exaggeration.
fishmike wrote:SupremeCommander wrote:Towns does? Know I know this is a bit tongue and cheek, but before the ND game Towns had 8 PFs and 9 points in the prior two tourney games combined. His PFs per 36 minutes are well over 5 per game.fishmike wrote:SupremeCommander wrote:Okafor will be just fine. He'll have a better career than Boozer or Laettner or Brand. I do think I want Towns more now though, which I wasn't expecting to saythey are both very good prospects and bring different things to the table.At this point you have some guys that dont want to discuss anything. They just want to make sure their golden mooby is shined and sparkling. I dont really get the point. We should have 5 guys targeted because we dont know where we are picking. I think some of the guards have higher upside.
I agree with that. I think both are slightly limited. Towns excels on the defensive end (but not at rebounding) and Okafor has a ton of offensive skill AND polish
I really, really like Russell. I really, really like Justice Winslow (I see a Paul George type.. more of a SG than SF though).
I won't pretend to know anything about the kid from the Congo but he is certainly intriguing.
I find it funny that OK4 is the best player on a title team and has all these concerns. Meanwhile Towns is the 4th scorer and 2nd rebounder on a team with half the players declaring for the draft but will be fine because he "excels at everything" or is this great great defensive player... who cant stay out of foul trouble, when he's the physically dominating his peers.
It just tells me people have made their choice, and are now simply posting to back up their choice, not to talk about the players anymore. Hasheem Thabeet was a great defender also... and much bigger and longer than Towns.
let me rephrase -- because you're right -- Towns has the potential to excel on the defensive end and he has the ability to score. I just wish he would beast on the boards and that is my major concern with Towns.
fishmike wrote:Nalod wrote:people just dont think or watch.. they lock onto some piece of info and it rattles around their heads until they believe its true. Now we have DK talking about OK4's release point like he even knows what that is.
Towns is a better defender but really, wouldn't having 7 foot Cauly-Stein next you not help? Or Lyles? or the other monsters on theat team.Duke in the tournament had the best defense and OKA4 was a big part of it.
These guys in the NBA will look very differnet. Im not sold on one or the other and since we don't got the ping pong balls yet, its a moot point.When I hear about OK4's lack of athleticism or lack of lift assuring he will never be a good defender tells me people dont understand the game. At all. Didnt Marc (NBAdraft comparison: Todd MaCullogh) Gasol just win a DPOY? Was it his high lift and superior athleticism that got that done?
Of all these guys OK4's skill set will make his transition to the NBA the easiest. As for who ends up being the best player that will depend on time, health and the player.
Also team. Laettner was stuck on god awful T-Wolves and ATL teams. He played a lot of Center. If he played the 4 and was paired on the very good front line his career might have gone better. It was still pretty good. His 1st 6 seasons were very good, and he did make an allstar team later in his career.
Duncan had some good teams around him and an organization commited to him.
Not saying La8ner is Duncan if roles were reversed but I'd say Timmy with the wolves would have a different story.
SupremeCommander wrote:fishmike wrote:SupremeCommander wrote:Towns does? Know I know this is a bit tongue and cheek, but before the ND game Towns had 8 PFs and 9 points in the prior two tourney games combined. His PFs per 36 minutes are well over 5 per game.fishmike wrote:SupremeCommander wrote:Okafor will be just fine. He'll have a better career than Boozer or Laettner or Brand. I do think I want Towns more now though, which I wasn't expecting to saythey are both very good prospects and bring different things to the table.At this point you have some guys that dont want to discuss anything. They just want to make sure their golden mooby is shined and sparkling. I dont really get the point. We should have 5 guys targeted because we dont know where we are picking. I think some of the guards have higher upside.
I agree with that. I think both are slightly limited. Towns excels on the defensive end (but not at rebounding) and Okafor has a ton of offensive skill AND polish
I really, really like Russell. I really, really like Justice Winslow (I see a Paul George type.. more of a SG than SF though).
I won't pretend to know anything about the kid from the Congo but he is certainly intriguing.
I find it funny that OK4 is the best player on a title team and has all these concerns. Meanwhile Towns is the 4th scorer and 2nd rebounder on a team with half the players declaring for the draft but will be fine because he "excels at everything" or is this great great defensive player... who cant stay out of foul trouble, when he's the physically dominating his peers.
It just tells me people have made their choice, and are now simply posting to back up their choice, not to talk about the players anymore. Hasheem Thabeet was a great defender also... and much bigger and longer than Towns.
let me rephrase -- because you're right -- Towns has the potential to excel on the defensive end and he has the ability to score. I just wish he would beast on the boards and that is my major concern with Towns.
What do you exactly Sup? Vitually everytime Towns plays 20+mins he gets double digit rebounds. Check the game love. He takes up so much space in the box the boards gravitates towards him. Both Defensive & offensive. And kept in mind he battles Stein, Johnson & lyles for rebounds
Moonangie wrote:Anyone who has seen him play and scouted him sees the skills you mention. I 100% see them as well. Now simply riddle me this.. his spastic play takes him out of the game, a lot. A ton in fact. Its a big baffling how someone with his size and skill set isnt putting up 15/10 at the very very least. 10/7 is pedestrian. When your a 7 foot elite bigman in the NCAA thats terrible. So why? We despite playing next to a pair of 7 footers he has trouble staying on the floor.fishmike wrote:blkexec wrote:Here's my beef with your post and all similar posts. Your essentially putting OK4's offense and Town's defense in the same category as their strengths, and as far as I am concerned they are not even close to equal. You say OK4 has to learn to defend when he has fouls, but Towns doesnt do that. He just picks up more fouls. Before he went off against ND being guarded single man guarded by a guy who was 6'6, Towns scored 9 points and had 8 fouls in the combined in the two games prior. Do we ignore that data? Towns averages a foul every 7 minutes and 5 per 36... and this is a guy who's CALLING CARD to the NBA is defense.fishmike wrote:SupremeCommander wrote:Towns does? Know I know this is a bit tongue and cheek, but before the ND game Towns had 8 PFs and 9 points in the prior two tourney games combined. His PFs per 36 minutes are well over 5 per game.fishmike wrote:SupremeCommander wrote:Okafor will be just fine. He'll have a better career than Boozer or Laettner or Brand. I do think I want Towns more now though, which I wasn't expecting to saythey are both very good prospects and bring different things to the table.At this point you have some guys that dont want to discuss anything. They just want to make sure their golden mooby is shined and sparkling. I dont really get the point. We should have 5 guys targeted because we dont know where we are picking. I think some of the guards have higher upside.
I agree with that. I think both are slightly limited. Towns excels on the defensive end (but not at rebounding) and Okafor has a ton of offensive skill AND polish
I really, really like Russell. I really, really like Justice Winslow (I see a Paul George type.. more of a SG than SF though).
I won't pretend to know anything about the kid from the Congo but he is certainly intriguing.
I find it funny that OK4 is the best player on a title team and has all these concerns. Meanwhile Towns is the 4th scorer and 2nd rebounder on a team with half the players declaring for the draft but will be fine because he "excels at everything" or is this great great defensive player... who cant stay out of foul trouble, when he's the physically dominating his peers.
It just tells me people have made their choice, and are now simply posting to back up their choice, not to talk about the players anymore. Hasheem Thabeet was a great defender also... and much bigger and longer than Towns.
Eventhough I think Towns is far ahead of Thabeet when they were the same age.....and even now. It's also a good example of players not reaching their potential.
If Towns doesn't reach his offensive potential, then you have a solid 7foot defender with lateral quickness off the bench.
If OK4 doesn't reach his defensive potential, what do you have? Mike Sweetney? A big body who can score under the basket, but is a liability on defense?
Potential goes up or down...Both players have risks. It depends on how much risk can we afford on offense and defense. If Phil prefers defense, then he will take the offensive risk of Towns. If it was Mike Danphoni, then he would exempt the defensive risk of OK4.
I think OK4 has flashes of defense, better than he's shown in the past....Or maybe I finally watched an entire game. His defense suffers when he's in foul trouble. He's non existent. But you have to learn how to play defense, even in foul trouble. Also, Duke has a better defensive system and better wing defenders to hide OK4. Kentucky doesn't have any bigs with a low post game to hide Towns...Towns is their best offensive post player, eventhough he's a project.
What am I saying?
I don't know....just rambling because I'm ready to go home!
But hey.. no red flags there
He's a spaz. He's got some great skills and size, but if you want to see Town's play at both ends and stay on the floor you have to look at his high school games, because he so very rarely did that at KY.
I mean in these games OK4 struggled they ran 2-3 guys at him every possesion. Teams prefered to play 3-4 rather than let OK4 beat them. Thats still letting OK4 beat you.
Not sure how you get that Towns is a "spaz". His low-post game looked sharp to me - quick, agile, soft-touch. Give him a summer camp or two with The Dream, and I think he could become an elite post-scorer. He can shoot with range. He has a pretty good handle for a big (not Kaminsky-like, but good enough). He has impeccable shot-blocking skills, great team defensive instincts, great catch-up velocity, an apparent hunger to excel and enough athleticism to exploit that hunger.
Spaz? Might be a bit of an exaggeration.
Mostly the reasons I read to take Towns #1 are negatives from the other players on the draft board, not why Towns has actually earned the spot. As far as Towns earning the #1 slot I hear the same things over and over which is potential.
gunsnewing wrote:you do understand being able to stay on the floor for more than 20 minutes a game is an important thing right? You got your eyes wide shut man. After the ND game where Towns was guarded by a kid who was 6'6 you were quite happy to declare him the easy #1. That was after 2 tourney games where he put up 9 points and 8 fouls (combined).SupremeCommander wrote:fishmike wrote:SupremeCommander wrote:Towns does? Know I know this is a bit tongue and cheek, but before the ND game Towns had 8 PFs and 9 points in the prior two tourney games combined. His PFs per 36 minutes are well over 5 per game.fishmike wrote:SupremeCommander wrote:Okafor will be just fine. He'll have a better career than Boozer or Laettner or Brand. I do think I want Towns more now though, which I wasn't expecting to saythey are both very good prospects and bring different things to the table.At this point you have some guys that dont want to discuss anything. They just want to make sure their golden mooby is shined and sparkling. I dont really get the point. We should have 5 guys targeted because we dont know where we are picking. I think some of the guards have higher upside.
I agree with that. I think both are slightly limited. Towns excels on the defensive end (but not at rebounding) and Okafor has a ton of offensive skill AND polish
I really, really like Russell. I really, really like Justice Winslow (I see a Paul George type.. more of a SG than SF though).
I won't pretend to know anything about the kid from the Congo but he is certainly intriguing.
I find it funny that OK4 is the best player on a title team and has all these concerns. Meanwhile Towns is the 4th scorer and 2nd rebounder on a team with half the players declaring for the draft but will be fine because he "excels at everything" or is this great great defensive player... who cant stay out of foul trouble, when he's the physically dominating his peers.
It just tells me people have made their choice, and are now simply posting to back up their choice, not to talk about the players anymore. Hasheem Thabeet was a great defender also... and much bigger and longer than Towns.
let me rephrase -- because you're right -- Towns has the potential to excel on the defensive end and he has the ability to score. I just wish he would beast on the boards and that is my major concern with Towns.
What do you exactly Sup? Vitually everytime Towns plays 20+mins he gets double digit rebounds. Check the game love. He takes up so much space in the box the boards gravitates towards him. Both Defensive & offensive. And kept in mind he battles Stein, Johnson & lyles for rebounds
I think everyone here wanted Towns to show he was the clear #1. What he showed is some times he's great and others he cant stay on the floor at all. He's a prospect with skills and size, but he's so far from NBA ready. 5+ fouls per 36 minutes doesnt inspire
gunsnewing wrote:SupremeCommander wrote:fishmike wrote:SupremeCommander wrote:Towns does? Know I know this is a bit tongue and cheek, but before the ND game Towns had 8 PFs and 9 points in the prior two tourney games combined. His PFs per 36 minutes are well over 5 per game.fishmike wrote:SupremeCommander wrote:Okafor will be just fine. He'll have a better career than Boozer or Laettner or Brand. I do think I want Towns more now though, which I wasn't expecting to saythey are both very good prospects and bring different things to the table.At this point you have some guys that dont want to discuss anything. They just want to make sure their golden mooby is shined and sparkling. I dont really get the point. We should have 5 guys targeted because we dont know where we are picking. I think some of the guards have higher upside.
I agree with that. I think both are slightly limited. Towns excels on the defensive end (but not at rebounding) and Okafor has a ton of offensive skill AND polish
I really, really like Russell. I really, really like Justice Winslow (I see a Paul George type.. more of a SG than SF though).
I won't pretend to know anything about the kid from the Congo but he is certainly intriguing.
I find it funny that OK4 is the best player on a title team and has all these concerns. Meanwhile Towns is the 4th scorer and 2nd rebounder on a team with half the players declaring for the draft but will be fine because he "excels at everything" or is this great great defensive player... who cant stay out of foul trouble, when he's the physically dominating his peers.
It just tells me people have made their choice, and are now simply posting to back up their choice, not to talk about the players anymore. Hasheem Thabeet was a great defender also... and much bigger and longer than Towns.
let me rephrase -- because you're right -- Towns has the potential to excel on the defensive end and he has the ability to score. I just wish he would beast on the boards and that is my major concern with Towns.
What do you exactly Sup? Vitually everytime Towns plays 20+mins he gets double digit rebounds. Check the game love. He takes up so much space in the box the boards gravitates towards him. Both Defensive & offensive. And kept in mind he battles Stein, Johnson & lyles for rebounds
you could not be more wrong about this... again, Towns plays in the inferior SEC. In the tournament, he literally had 20+ minutes in 4 of 5 games and the only time he crossed double digits was against the #16 seed.
In the regular season, that literally happened 50 percent of the time. He had 9 games with 10+ rebounds when playing 20 or more minutes. He played 20+ mins 18 times.
The teams during the regular season where he got rebounds were against Montana State, Texas-Arlington, UCLA, Missouri, Georgia, LSU, Auburn, Mississippi State, and Florida. Literally, only one of those teams on that list impresses me.
Against ranked teams in the regular season, he averaged 5.6 rebounds per game in the games where he played more than 20 minutes.
Please don't join the conversation if you are just going to make a bunch of crp up
SupremeCommander wrote:Guns does not have a healthy relationship when it comes to Towns. I dont really understand why you would stop looking and simply decide this is the guy we must have, he's perfect in everyway, there is an excuse for everything he doesnt do and OK4 is fatter than Mike Sweetney and Eddie Curry.gunsnewing wrote:SupremeCommander wrote:fishmike wrote:SupremeCommander wrote:Towns does? Know I know this is a bit tongue and cheek, but before the ND game Towns had 8 PFs and 9 points in the prior two tourney games combined. His PFs per 36 minutes are well over 5 per game.fishmike wrote:SupremeCommander wrote:Okafor will be just fine. He'll have a better career than Boozer or Laettner or Brand. I do think I want Towns more now though, which I wasn't expecting to saythey are both very good prospects and bring different things to the table.At this point you have some guys that dont want to discuss anything. They just want to make sure their golden mooby is shined and sparkling. I dont really get the point. We should have 5 guys targeted because we dont know where we are picking. I think some of the guards have higher upside.
I agree with that. I think both are slightly limited. Towns excels on the defensive end (but not at rebounding) and Okafor has a ton of offensive skill AND polish
I really, really like Russell. I really, really like Justice Winslow (I see a Paul George type.. more of a SG than SF though).
I won't pretend to know anything about the kid from the Congo but he is certainly intriguing.
I find it funny that OK4 is the best player on a title team and has all these concerns. Meanwhile Towns is the 4th scorer and 2nd rebounder on a team with half the players declaring for the draft but will be fine because he "excels at everything" or is this great great defensive player... who cant stay out of foul trouble, when he's the physically dominating his peers.
It just tells me people have made their choice, and are now simply posting to back up their choice, not to talk about the players anymore. Hasheem Thabeet was a great defender also... and much bigger and longer than Towns.
let me rephrase -- because you're right -- Towns has the potential to excel on the defensive end and he has the ability to score. I just wish he would beast on the boards and that is my major concern with Towns.
What do you exactly Sup? Vitually everytime Towns plays 20+mins he gets double digit rebounds. Check the game love. He takes up so much space in the box the boards gravitates towards him. Both Defensive & offensive. And kept in mind he battles Stein, Johnson & lyles for rebounds
you could not be more wrong about this... again, Towns plays in the inferior SEC. In the tournament, he literally had 20+ minutes in 4 of 5 games and the only time he crossed double digits was against the #16 seed.
In the regular season, that literally happened 50 percent of the time. He had 9 games with 10+ rebounds when playing 20 or more minutes. He played 20+ mins 18 times.
The teams during the regular season where he got rebounds were against Montana State, Texas-Arlington, UCLA, Missouri, Georgia, LSU, Auburn, Mississippi State, and Florida. Literally, only one of those teams on that list impresses me.
Against ranked teams in the regular season, he averaged 5.6 rebounds per game in the games where he played more than 20 minutes.
Please don't join the conversation if you are just going to make a bunch of crp up
Guns whats your agenda? Why do you desperately defend a guy who doesnt matter? He's not a Knick.. just another guy on the board
SupremeCommander wrote:gunsnewing wrote:SupremeCommander wrote:fishmike wrote:SupremeCommander wrote:Towns does? Know I know this is a bit tongue and cheek, but before the ND game Towns had 8 PFs and 9 points in the prior two tourney games combined. His PFs per 36 minutes are well over 5 per game.fishmike wrote:SupremeCommander wrote:Okafor will be just fine. He'll have a better career than Boozer or Laettner or Brand. I do think I want Towns more now though, which I wasn't expecting to saythey are both very good prospects and bring different things to the table.At this point you have some guys that dont want to discuss anything. They just want to make sure their golden mooby is shined and sparkling. I dont really get the point. We should have 5 guys targeted because we dont know where we are picking. I think some of the guards have higher upside.
I agree with that. I think both are slightly limited. Towns excels on the defensive end (but not at rebounding) and Okafor has a ton of offensive skill AND polish
I really, really like Russell. I really, really like Justice Winslow (I see a Paul George type.. more of a SG than SF though).
I won't pretend to know anything about the kid from the Congo but he is certainly intriguing.
I find it funny that OK4 is the best player on a title team and has all these concerns. Meanwhile Towns is the 4th scorer and 2nd rebounder on a team with half the players declaring for the draft but will be fine because he "excels at everything" or is this great great defensive player... who cant stay out of foul trouble, when he's the physically dominating his peers.
It just tells me people have made their choice, and are now simply posting to back up their choice, not to talk about the players anymore. Hasheem Thabeet was a great defender also... and much bigger and longer than Towns.
let me rephrase -- because you're right -- Towns has the potential to excel on the defensive end and he has the ability to score. I just wish he would beast on the boards and that is my major concern with Towns.
What do you exactly Sup? Vitually everytime Towns plays 20+mins he gets double digit rebounds. Check the game love. He takes up so much space in the box the boards gravitates towards him. Both Defensive & offensive. And kept in mind he battles Stein, Johnson & lyles for rebounds
you could not be more wrong about this... again, Towns plays in the inferior SEC. In the tournament, he literally had 20+ minutes in 4 of 5 games and the only time he crossed double digits was against the #16 seed.
In the regular season, that literally happened 50 percent of the time. He had 9 games with 10+ rebounds when playing 20 or more minutes. He played 20+ mins 18 times.
The teams during the regular season where he got rebounds were against Montana State, Texas-Arlington, UCLA, Missouri, Georgia, LSU, Auburn, Mississippi State, and Florida. Literally, only one of those teams on that list impresses me.
Against ranked teams in the regular season, he averaged 5.6 rebounds per game in the games where he played more than 20 minutes.
Please don't join the conversation if you are just going to make a bunch of crp up
Nice breakdown. What are OK4's numbers? Also relative to the level of competition? Kentucky faced a much tougher road in this tournament than Duke. And Duke benefited from a gassed Dekker and Wisconsin team towards the end of the game.
fishmike wrote:gunsnewing wrote:you do understand being able to stay on the floor for more than 20 minutes a game is an important thing right? You got your eyes wide shut man. After the ND game where Towns was guarded by a kid who was 6'6 you were quite happy to declare him the easy #1. That was after 2 tourney games where he put up 9 points and 8 fouls (combined).SupremeCommander wrote:fishmike wrote:SupremeCommander wrote:Towns does? Know I know this is a bit tongue and cheek, but before the ND game Towns had 8 PFs and 9 points in the prior two tourney games combined. His PFs per 36 minutes are well over 5 per game.fishmike wrote:SupremeCommander wrote:Okafor will be just fine. He'll have a better career than Boozer or Laettner or Brand. I do think I want Towns more now though, which I wasn't expecting to saythey are both very good prospects and bring different things to the table.At this point you have some guys that dont want to discuss anything. They just want to make sure their golden mooby is shined and sparkling. I dont really get the point. We should have 5 guys targeted because we dont know where we are picking. I think some of the guards have higher upside.
I agree with that. I think both are slightly limited. Towns excels on the defensive end (but not at rebounding) and Okafor has a ton of offensive skill AND polish
I really, really like Russell. I really, really like Justice Winslow (I see a Paul George type.. more of a SG than SF though).
I won't pretend to know anything about the kid from the Congo but he is certainly intriguing.
I find it funny that OK4 is the best player on a title team and has all these concerns. Meanwhile Towns is the 4th scorer and 2nd rebounder on a team with half the players declaring for the draft but will be fine because he "excels at everything" or is this great great defensive player... who cant stay out of foul trouble, when he's the physically dominating his peers.
It just tells me people have made their choice, and are now simply posting to back up their choice, not to talk about the players anymore. Hasheem Thabeet was a great defender also... and much bigger and longer than Towns.
let me rephrase -- because you're right -- Towns has the potential to excel on the defensive end and he has the ability to score. I just wish he would beast on the boards and that is my major concern with Towns.
What do you exactly Sup? Vitually everytime Towns plays 20+mins he gets double digit rebounds. Check the game love. He takes up so much space in the box the boards gravitates towards him. Both Defensive & offensive. And kept in mind he battles Stein, Johnson & lyles for rebounds
I think everyone here wanted Towns to show he was the clear #1. What he showed is some times he's great and others he cant stay on the floor at all. He's a prospect with skills and size, but he's so far from NBA ready. 5+ fouls per 36 minutes doesnt inspire
I think what happened is that Okafor didn't perform up to expectations and people are over emphasizing the one game. If you saw the game you know that Wisconsin had to pay attention to Okafor all game, then it opened things up for Grayson Allen, then Winslow, then Justice Winslow, and then that opened things up for Tyus Jones. Literally none of that happens if Okafor doesn't have his back to the basket. Again, he's not going to miss point blank shots every game.
gunsnewing wrote:SupremeCommander wrote:gunsnewing wrote:SupremeCommander wrote:fishmike wrote:SupremeCommander wrote:Towns does? Know I know this is a bit tongue and cheek, but before the ND game Towns had 8 PFs and 9 points in the prior two tourney games combined. His PFs per 36 minutes are well over 5 per game.fishmike wrote:SupremeCommander wrote:Okafor will be just fine. He'll have a better career than Boozer or Laettner or Brand. I do think I want Towns more now though, which I wasn't expecting to saythey are both very good prospects and bring different things to the table.At this point you have some guys that dont want to discuss anything. They just want to make sure their golden mooby is shined and sparkling. I dont really get the point. We should have 5 guys targeted because we dont know where we are picking. I think some of the guards have higher upside.
I agree with that. I think both are slightly limited. Towns excels on the defensive end (but not at rebounding) and Okafor has a ton of offensive skill AND polish
I really, really like Russell. I really, really like Justice Winslow (I see a Paul George type.. more of a SG than SF though).
I won't pretend to know anything about the kid from the Congo but he is certainly intriguing.
I find it funny that OK4 is the best player on a title team and has all these concerns. Meanwhile Towns is the 4th scorer and 2nd rebounder on a team with half the players declaring for the draft but will be fine because he "excels at everything" or is this great great defensive player... who cant stay out of foul trouble, when he's the physically dominating his peers.
It just tells me people have made their choice, and are now simply posting to back up their choice, not to talk about the players anymore. Hasheem Thabeet was a great defender also... and much bigger and longer than Towns.
let me rephrase -- because you're right -- Towns has the potential to excel on the defensive end and he has the ability to score. I just wish he would beast on the boards and that is my major concern with Towns.
What do you exactly Sup? Vitually everytime Towns plays 20+mins he gets double digit rebounds. Check the game love. He takes up so much space in the box the boards gravitates towards him. Both Defensive & offensive. And kept in mind he battles Stein, Johnson & lyles for rebounds
you could not be more wrong about this... again, Towns plays in the inferior SEC. In the tournament, he literally had 20+ minutes in 4 of 5 games and the only time he crossed double digits was against the #16 seed.
In the regular season, that literally happened 50 percent of the time. He had 9 games with 10+ rebounds when playing 20 or more minutes. He played 20+ mins 18 times.
The teams during the regular season where he got rebounds were against Montana State, Texas-Arlington, UCLA, Missouri, Georgia, LSU, Auburn, Mississippi State, and Florida. Literally, only one of those teams on that list impresses me.
Against ranked teams in the regular season, he averaged 5.6 rebounds per game in the games where he played more than 20 minutes.
Please don't join the conversation if you are just going to make a bunch of crp up
Nice breakdown. What are OK4's numbers? Also relative to the level of competition? Kentucky faced a much tougher road in this tournament than Duke. And Duke benefited from a gassed Dekker and Wisconsin team towards the end of the game.
you lazy sack of chit -- do it yourself
So I'm having a tough time understanding the hostility. I think it's time you guys adjust your opinions from 5months ago. The rest of the country has. I don't know I guess I expect more from you guys. I will just let you be for now on.
Nevermind I don't even need the stats to formulate my opinion on OK4 vs Towns
gunsnewing wrote:Every draft board in America has Towns going #1and the rest of the country voted Melo an all star. You just follow the masses do you?So I'm having a tough time understanding the hostility. I think it's time you guys adjust your opinions from 5months ago. The rest of the country has. I don't know I guess I expect more from you guys. I will just let you be for now on
Who's hostile? OK4= Mike Sweetney and Eddie Curry? While you make stuff up about Town's greatness and he's got not a single red flag. Its puzzling. Most are looking to discuss. Your looking to be right about your golden mooby and I dont really get it.
gunsnewing wrote:Every draft board in America has Towns going #1So I'm having a tough time understanding the hostility. I think it's time you guys adjust your opinions from 5months ago. The rest of the country has. I don't know I guess I expect more from you guys. I will just let you be for now on
I am reacting to you wasting my time with made up garbage bro.
SupremeCommander wrote:gunsnewing wrote:SupremeCommander wrote:gunsnewing wrote:SupremeCommander wrote:fishmike wrote:SupremeCommander wrote:Towns does? Know I know this is a bit tongue and cheek, but before the ND game Towns had 8 PFs and 9 points in the prior two tourney games combined. His PFs per 36 minutes are well over 5 per game.fishmike wrote:SupremeCommander wrote:Okafor will be just fine. He'll have a better career than Boozer or Laettner or Brand. I do think I want Towns more now though, which I wasn't expecting to saythey are both very good prospects and bring different things to the table.At this point you have some guys that dont want to discuss anything. They just want to make sure their golden mooby is shined and sparkling. I dont really get the point. We should have 5 guys targeted because we dont know where we are picking. I think some of the guards have higher upside.
I agree with that. I think both are slightly limited. Towns excels on the defensive end (but not at rebounding) and Okafor has a ton of offensive skill AND polish
I really, really like Russell. I really, really like Justice Winslow (I see a Paul George type.. more of a SG than SF though).
I won't pretend to know anything about the kid from the Congo but he is certainly intriguing.
I find it funny that OK4 is the best player on a title team and has all these concerns. Meanwhile Towns is the 4th scorer and 2nd rebounder on a team with half the players declaring for the draft but will be fine because he "excels at everything" or is this great great defensive player... who cant stay out of foul trouble, when he's the physically dominating his peers.
It just tells me people have made their choice, and are now simply posting to back up their choice, not to talk about the players anymore. Hasheem Thabeet was a great defender also... and much bigger and longer than Towns.
let me rephrase -- because you're right -- Towns has the potential to excel on the defensive end and he has the ability to score. I just wish he would beast on the boards and that is my major concern with Towns.
What do you exactly Sup? Vitually everytime Towns plays 20+mins he gets double digit rebounds. Check the game love. He takes up so much space in the box the boards gravitates towards him. Both Defensive & offensive. And kept in mind he battles Stein, Johnson & lyles for rebounds
you could not be more wrong about this... again, Towns plays in the inferior SEC. In the tournament, he literally had 20+ minutes in 4 of 5 games and the only time he crossed double digits was against the #16 seed.
In the regular season, that literally happened 50 percent of the time. He had 9 games with 10+ rebounds when playing 20 or more minutes. He played 20+ mins 18 times.
The teams during the regular season where he got rebounds were against Montana State, Texas-Arlington, UCLA, Missouri, Georgia, LSU, Auburn, Mississippi State, and Florida. Literally, only one of those teams on that list impresses me.
Against ranked teams in the regular season, he averaged 5.6 rebounds per game in the games where he played more than 20 minutes.
Please don't join the conversation if you are just going to make a bunch of crp up
Nice breakdown. What are OK4's numbers? Also relative to the level of competition? Kentucky faced a much tougher road in this tournament than Duke. And Duke benefited from a gassed Dekker and Wisconsin team towards the end of the game.
you lazy sack of chit -- do it yourself
I would say this is pretty hostile when all I did was ask him to present stats for both players. He could've just declined or ignored me.
As well as some of you comments about me Fish when all I did was compare Ok4 to players based on what I've seen from him especially lately. I had him at 2 all year but he was exposed during the tournament when faced with real completion up front. Now I'm not sure if he goes 2-5. Still might be a good pro but not #1 in this draft.
I believe Towns put up 16 & 9 on a fresher Kaminsky. What did Ok4 have last night 10 & 3 vs a tired Wisconsin team?
SupremeCommander wrote:fishmike wrote:gunsnewing wrote:you do understand being able to stay on the floor for more than 20 minutes a game is an important thing right? You got your eyes wide shut man. After the ND game where Towns was guarded by a kid who was 6'6 you were quite happy to declare him the easy #1. That was after 2 tourney games where he put up 9 points and 8 fouls (combined).SupremeCommander wrote:fishmike wrote:SupremeCommander wrote:Towns does? Know I know this is a bit tongue and cheek, but before the ND game Towns had 8 PFs and 9 points in the prior two tourney games combined. His PFs per 36 minutes are well over 5 per game.fishmike wrote:SupremeCommander wrote:Okafor will be just fine. He'll have a better career than Boozer or Laettner or Brand. I do think I want Towns more now though, which I wasn't expecting to saythey are both very good prospects and bring different things to the table.At this point you have some guys that dont want to discuss anything. They just want to make sure their golden mooby is shined and sparkling. I dont really get the point. We should have 5 guys targeted because we dont know where we are picking. I think some of the guards have higher upside.
I agree with that. I think both are slightly limited. Towns excels on the defensive end (but not at rebounding) and Okafor has a ton of offensive skill AND polish
I really, really like Russell. I really, really like Justice Winslow (I see a Paul George type.. more of a SG than SF though).
I won't pretend to know anything about the kid from the Congo but he is certainly intriguing.
I find it funny that OK4 is the best player on a title team and has all these concerns. Meanwhile Towns is the 4th scorer and 2nd rebounder on a team with half the players declaring for the draft but will be fine because he "excels at everything" or is this great great defensive player... who cant stay out of foul trouble, when he's the physically dominating his peers.
It just tells me people have made their choice, and are now simply posting to back up their choice, not to talk about the players anymore. Hasheem Thabeet was a great defender also... and much bigger and longer than Towns.
let me rephrase -- because you're right -- Towns has the potential to excel on the defensive end and he has the ability to score. I just wish he would beast on the boards and that is my major concern with Towns.
What do you exactly Sup? Vitually everytime Towns plays 20+mins he gets double digit rebounds. Check the game love. He takes up so much space in the box the boards gravitates towards him. Both Defensive & offensive. And kept in mind he battles Stein, Johnson & lyles for rebounds
I think everyone here wanted Towns to show he was the clear #1. What he showed is some times he's great and others he cant stay on the floor at all. He's a prospect with skills and size, but he's so far from NBA ready. 5+ fouls per 36 minutes doesnt inspire
I think what happened is that Okafor didn't perform up to expectations and people are over emphasizing the one game. If you saw the game you know that Wisconsin had to pay attention to Okafor all game, then it opened things up for Grayson Allen, then Winslow, then Justice Winslow, and then that opened things up for Tyus Jones. Literally none of that happens if Okafor doesn't have his back to the basket. Again, he's not going to miss point blank shots every game.
Stop it Supreme your making to much sense.
fishmike wrote:Moonangie wrote:Anyone who has seen him play and scouted him sees the skills you mention. I 100% see them as well. Now simply riddle me this.. his spastic play takes him out of the game, a lot. A ton in fact. Its a big baffling how someone with his size and skill set isnt putting up 15/10 at the very very least. 10/7 is pedestrian. When your a 7 foot elite bigman in the NCAA thats terrible. So why? We despite playing next to a pair of 7 footers he has trouble staying on the floor.fishmike wrote:blkexec wrote:Here's my beef with your post and all similar posts. Your essentially putting OK4's offense and Town's defense in the same category as their strengths, and as far as I am concerned they are not even close to equal. You say OK4 has to learn to defend when he has fouls, but Towns doesnt do that. He just picks up more fouls. Before he went off against ND being guarded single man guarded by a guy who was 6'6, Towns scored 9 points and had 8 fouls in the combined in the two games prior. Do we ignore that data? Towns averages a foul every 7 minutes and 5 per 36... and this is a guy who's CALLING CARD to the NBA is defense.fishmike wrote:SupremeCommander wrote:Towns does? Know I know this is a bit tongue and cheek, but before the ND game Towns had 8 PFs and 9 points in the prior two tourney games combined. His PFs per 36 minutes are well over 5 per game.fishmike wrote:SupremeCommander wrote:Okafor will be just fine. He'll have a better career than Boozer or Laettner or Brand. I do think I want Towns more now though, which I wasn't expecting to saythey are both very good prospects and bring different things to the table.At this point you have some guys that dont want to discuss anything. They just want to make sure their golden mooby is shined and sparkling. I dont really get the point. We should have 5 guys targeted because we dont know where we are picking. I think some of the guards have higher upside.
I agree with that. I think both are slightly limited. Towns excels on the defensive end (but not at rebounding) and Okafor has a ton of offensive skill AND polish
I really, really like Russell. I really, really like Justice Winslow (I see a Paul George type.. more of a SG than SF though).
I won't pretend to know anything about the kid from the Congo but he is certainly intriguing.
I find it funny that OK4 is the best player on a title team and has all these concerns. Meanwhile Towns is the 4th scorer and 2nd rebounder on a team with half the players declaring for the draft but will be fine because he "excels at everything" or is this great great defensive player... who cant stay out of foul trouble, when he's the physically dominating his peers.
It just tells me people have made their choice, and are now simply posting to back up their choice, not to talk about the players anymore. Hasheem Thabeet was a great defender also... and much bigger and longer than Towns.
Eventhough I think Towns is far ahead of Thabeet when they were the same age.....and even now. It's also a good example of players not reaching their potential.
If Towns doesn't reach his offensive potential, then you have a solid 7foot defender with lateral quickness off the bench.
If OK4 doesn't reach his defensive potential, what do you have? Mike Sweetney? A big body who can score under the basket, but is a liability on defense?
Potential goes up or down...Both players have risks. It depends on how much risk can we afford on offense and defense. If Phil prefers defense, then he will take the offensive risk of Towns. If it was Mike Danphoni, then he would exempt the defensive risk of OK4.
I think OK4 has flashes of defense, better than he's shown in the past....Or maybe I finally watched an entire game. His defense suffers when he's in foul trouble. He's non existent. But you have to learn how to play defense, even in foul trouble. Also, Duke has a better defensive system and better wing defenders to hide OK4. Kentucky doesn't have any bigs with a low post game to hide Towns...Towns is their best offensive post player, eventhough he's a project.
What am I saying?
I don't know....just rambling because I'm ready to go home!
But hey.. no red flags there
He's a spaz. He's got some great skills and size, but if you want to see Town's play at both ends and stay on the floor you have to look at his high school games, because he so very rarely did that at KY.
I mean in these games OK4 struggled they ran 2-3 guys at him every possesion. Teams prefered to play 3-4 rather than let OK4 beat them. Thats still letting OK4 beat you.
Not sure how you get that Towns is a "spaz". His low-post game looked sharp to me - quick, agile, soft-touch. Give him a summer camp or two with The Dream, and I think he could become an elite post-scorer. He can shoot with range. He has a pretty good handle for a big (not Kaminsky-like, but good enough). He has impeccable shot-blocking skills, great team defensive instincts, great catch-up velocity, an apparent hunger to excel and enough athleticism to exploit that hunger.
Spaz? Might be a bit of an exaggeration.
Mostly the reasons I read to take Towns #1 are negatives from the other players on the draft board, not why Towns has actually earned the spot. As far as Towns earning the #1 slot I hear the same things over and over which is potential.
I'll grant you that the reason to take him #1 is his potential. I'd further assert that the same should be said for every other first round pick. There are ZERO sure things in any draft. GMs have to gauge where they think that potential will lead and how the player might develop within the parameters of an NBA program.
From what I have seen (despite the sometimes pedestrian stats - which I attribute to being on a stacked Kentucky team as a freshman) Towns has the highest ceiling and most versatile game of the bigs on the board. I do not think for a second that he is a sure thing, just that he is the best all-around player and the one I fully expect the Knicks to pick if they land the #1 overall, since Towns fits our system and needs perfectly.
But I will also say that he could end up a bust, injury-wise or attitude-wise. But that's a relatively low risk compared to how amazing he could become. From my POV, he's the closest thing we will get to drafting the next Ewing or Dream. And that's a risk I am excited to take.
PLEASE PING PONG BALLS, GRANT THIS WISH!