Knicks · Top opportunties for 2018 draft pick (page 1)

I am advocating burning this pick in 2015 as long as it has top 5-10 protection. The difference between what we have done in our history and what I am advocating is acquiring direct controlled cost assets vs using as a major tool in multi asset laden trades for large acquisitions(which have not worked once) We have never used trade restriction which wouldve saved us and is key in introducing a draft pick in a trade. Why do I want to move the 2018 asset in? It could help exponentially in expediting our recovery since we do not have a draft pick next year.

Usage? Here is my top 3 outlined uses

#1 Trade with Minnesota for Shabazz Muhammed. I believe the T Wolves have two players playing the same position SF Wiggins and Shabazz. I think Shabazz could be an NBA star but he will be held back in Minnesota. He has a great basketball body and I think hes a basketball explosion waiting to happen. Hes young on his first contract and I think he can be a star in this league.

#2 A trade for an additional 2015 draft pick for the "right player". This would be to a team that wanted out of the draft--target here is OKC or Philly at 18 or 19

#3 A trade for TJ Warren--same as Shabazz I think he can be a real great player. The Suns already have both Morris's in the same positionon long term contracts.

Again the thesis here is to open the 2018 value now for a team that wants to expedite recovery. Im not throwing a pick in--Im simply converting the straight value early so that it is in full bloom by 2018. A top 5 restricted pick is one of the best assets you can find in this league--so we are playing with a strong asset in our hand.

Either you're the biggest Knick fan that ever lived

or

You work for Dolan / Phil

But I love exploring different options, outside of just picking OK4 or Towns. Not sure I agree with your options, but at least you are thinking outside the box / norm. Some of us should try and do the same, because I know Phil is. Might as well speculate what trade options are out there.

I was hoping for a player and a pick for OK4 or Town....Both players are labeled with franchise POTENTIAL. Assuming they both never reach that high potential, this would be their highest value on draft day....Especially in this system we have under two rookies running the show. We need vets for Fisher and Phil to succeed or Lebron type "can't miss" rookies. Personally I rather trade with a team where Russell, Winslow, Mudiay, Top Euro guy, etc.....would be selected....Probably picks 3-5.

Some will say, forget Fisher and Phil, we need to think about the future and keep the pick. Well, you know what that future could be (thinking pessimistic)....a high draft pick with reduced value due to the inability to grow rookies under Fisher. So if I'm thinking like a pessimist, then trading the pick now would be the best sell high option.

As an optimist, keeping the pick or trading the pick plus a vet like Shabazz would be ideal. But I believe OK4 or Towns have more value than Shabazz or any non superstar vet! I would try and get their 1st round pick as well. Maybe look at trading one of our own up and coming SG's (THj, Early, Ledo, etc...) to sweeten the pot.

BRIGGS wrote:I am advocating burning this pick in 2015 as long as it has top 5-10 protection. The difference between what we have done in our history and what I am advocating is acquiring direct controlled cost assets vs using as a major tool in multi asset laden trades for large acquisitions(which have not worked once) We have never used trade restriction which wouldve saved us and is key in introducing a draft pick in a trade. Why do I want to move the 2018 asset in? It could help exponentially in expediting our recovery since we do not have a draft pick next year.

Usage? Here is my top 3 outlined uses

#1 Trade with Minnesota for Shabazz Muhammed. I believe the T Wolves have two players playing the same position SF Wiggins and Shabazz. I think Shabazz could be an NBA star but he will be held back in Minnesota. He has a great basketball body and I think hes a basketball explosion waiting to happen. Hes young on his first contract and I think he can be a star in this league.

#2 A trade for an additional 2015 draft pick for the "right player". This would be to a team that wanted out of the draft--target here is OKC or Philly at 18 or 19

#3 A trade for TJ Warren--same as Shabazz I think he can be a real great player. The Suns already have both Morris's in the same positionon long term contracts.

Again the thesis here is to open the 2018 value now for a team that wants to expedite recovery. Im not throwing a pick in--Im simply converting the straight value early so that it is in full bloom by 2018. A top 5 restricted pick is one of the best assets you can find in this league--so we are playing with a strong asset in our hand.

I appreciate everything you said, I just think we have to stop trading future first rounders, even with protection (and I don't think 5-10 is high enough for a mid/late pick today), even if its for a draft pick today.

I'd like to think if we really stink next season, we'll be in a position to trade Melo to another team in exchange for that team's first rounder that draft.

Namely, if we stink bad - win total in the 20's-30's- Melo will ask for/acquiesce in a trade scenario - and that so many teams will have cap room with the exploding cap, that we can easily send him to a team desirable to him, that can use him - and which can send us back at min a first round draft pick.

I say hold the course - if you can buy a first rounder from a team straight up for cash, cash & a player or a future 2nd rounder, then yes, do that.

Otherwise, we have our own high first round pick and tons of money for Phil to prove his vision.

Briggs you seem to make te same thread every day lol. First off our pick is pretty much guaranteed to be in top 4 or 5 and in this draft there is too much impact players a the top to just trade. Secondly if you look at our history trading away picks hasnt exactly been kind to us. How about we value the lottery pick we have draft a stud and then fill in with free agency. Not saying we will et everybdy we want but thats what i think phil's plan is

franco12 wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:I am advocating burning this pick in 2015 as long as it has top 5-10 protection. The difference between what we have done in our history and what I am advocating is acquiring direct controlled cost assets vs using as a major tool in multi asset laden trades for large acquisitions(which have not worked once) We have never used trade restriction which wouldve saved us and is key in introducing a draft pick in a trade. Why do I want to move the 2018 asset in? It could help exponentially in expediting our recovery since we do not have a draft pick next year.

Usage? Here is my top 3 outlined uses

#1 Trade with Minnesota for Shabazz Muhammed. I believe the T Wolves have two players playing the same position SF Wiggins and Shabazz. I think Shabazz could be an NBA star but he will be held back in Minnesota. He has a great basketball body and I think hes a basketball explosion waiting to happen. Hes young on his first contract and I think he can be a star in this league.

#2 A trade for an additional 2015 draft pick for the "right player". This would be to a team that wanted out of the draft--target here is OKC or Philly at 18 or 19

#3 A trade for TJ Warren--same as Shabazz I think he can be a real great player. The Suns already have both Morris's in the same positionon long term contracts.

Again the thesis here is to open the 2018 value now for a team that wants to expedite recovery. Im not throwing a pick in--Im simply converting the straight value early so that it is in full bloom by 2018. A top 5 restricted pick is one of the best assets you can find in this league--so we are playing with a strong asset in our hand.

I appreciate everything you said, I just think we have to stop trading future first rounders, even with protection (and I don't think 5-10 is high enough for a mid/late pick today), even if its for a draft pick today.

I'd like to think if we really stink next season, we'll be in a position to trade Melo to another team in exchange for that team's first rounder that draft.

Namely, if we stink bad - win total in the 20's-30's- Melo will ask for/acquiesce in a trade scenario - and that so many teams will have cap room with the exploding cap, that we can easily send him to a team desirable to him, that can use him - and which can send us back at min a first round draft pick.

I say hold the course - if you can buy a first rounder from a team straight up for cash, cash & a player or a future 2nd rounder, then yes, do that.

Otherwise, we have our own high first round pick and tons of money for Phil to prove his vision.

excellent post Franco... agree 100%. Get what Briggs is saying, no need to jump the gun

franco12 wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:I am advocating burning this pick in 2015 as long as it has top 5-10 protection. The difference between what we have done in our history and what I am advocating is acquiring direct controlled cost assets vs using as a major tool in multi asset laden trades for large acquisitions(which have not worked once) We have never used trade restriction which wouldve saved us and is key in introducing a draft pick in a trade. Why do I want to move the 2018 asset in? It could help exponentially in expediting our recovery since we do not have a draft pick next year.

Usage? Here is my top 3 outlined uses

#1 Trade with Minnesota for Shabazz Muhammed. I believe the T Wolves have two players playing the same position SF Wiggins and Shabazz. I think Shabazz could be an NBA star but he will be held back in Minnesota. He has a great basketball body and I think hes a basketball explosion waiting to happen. Hes young on his first contract and I think he can be a star in this league.

#2 A trade for an additional 2015 draft pick for the "right player". This would be to a team that wanted out of the draft--target here is OKC or Philly at 18 or 19

#3 A trade for TJ Warren--same as Shabazz I think he can be a real great player. The Suns already have both Morris's in the same positionon long term contracts.

Again the thesis here is to open the 2018 value now for a team that wants to expedite recovery. Im not throwing a pick in--Im simply converting the straight value early so that it is in full bloom by 2018. A top 5 restricted pick is one of the best assets you can find in this league--so we are playing with a strong asset in our hand.

I appreciate everything you said, I just think we have to stop trading future first rounders, even with protection (and I don't think 5-10 is high enough for a mid/late pick today), even if its for a draft pick today.

I'd like to think if we really stink next season, we'll be in a position to trade Melo to another team in exchange for that team's first rounder that draft.

Namely, if we stink bad - win total in the 20's-30's- Melo will ask for/acquiesce in a trade scenario - and that so many teams will have cap room with the exploding cap, that we can easily send him to a team desirable to him, that can use him - and which can send us back at min a first round draft pick.

I say hold the course - if you can buy a first rounder from a team straight up for cash, cash & a player or a future 2nd rounder, then yes, do that.

Otherwise, we have our own high first round pick and tons of money for Phil to prove his vision.

Thats a good point as far as buying our way into the first round.. Theres a lot of talent in this draft so there will be good players that get pushed down. Decker is one player i think will drop if he enters the draft. Anybody at the end of the first round have more potential than any of our current d league players.

How do we know we aren't going to be terrible like we were now in 2018.

today is Thursday mish mosh

I say we write our ideas on stickys, lay them out on a bed, get sweaty, jump on the sticky notes, and see what sticks.

in 2018, Melo is going to be in the last year of his deal, a true cap albatross. All signs point to that being another bad year. I'd like to have another pick that year, frankly.

Realistically, the best way to build this team will be: high draft pick in 2015, smart FA signings in summer 2015 and 2016 and then add smart draft picks in 2017 and 2018.

Too many times we've mortgaged our future before knowing if we need the pick or not.

Heck, we may even want the 2018 pick as one of our few trades assets. In December 2013, we could have acquired Kyle Lowry from Toronto - one reason we didn't was because we had already burned the 2016 pick on Andrea Bargnani.

I'd hold the 2018 pick. Only way I trade that pick is in a no-brainer trade. Which the Kyle Lowry trade should've been.

crzymdups wrote:in 2018, Melo is going to be in the last year of his deal, a true cap albatross. All signs point to that being another bad year. I'd like to have another pick that year, frankly.

Realistically, the best way to build this team will be: high draft pick in 2015, smart FA signings in summer 2015 and 2016 and then add smart draft picks in 2017 and 2018.

Too many times we've mortgaged our future before knowing if we need the pick or not.

Heck, we may even want the 2018 pick as one of our few trades assets. In December 2013, we could have acquired Kyle Lowry from Toronto - one reason we didn't was because we had already burned the 2016 pick on Andrea Bargnani.

I'd hold the 2018 pick. Only way I trade that pick is in a no-brainer trade. Which the Kyle Lowry trade should've been.

I just look at it as transferring the asset from 2018 to 2015 with top 5 protection. Youre still making a pick--just 3 years earlier. If you are horrible in 2018--you have protection the pick top 5+ Lets say this--will the pick in 2015 be better than what Shabazz Muhammed will be in 2018? Almost no chance.

BRIGGS wrote:I just look at it as transferring the asset from 2018 to 2015 with top 5 protection. Youre still making a pick--just 3 years earlier. If you are horrible in 2018--you have protection the pick top 5+ Lets say this--will the pick in 2015 be better than what Shabazz Muhammed will be in 2018? Almost no chance.

Most GMs will not be working at the same job in 2018 - front office turnover happens all the time in the NBA. They have to have a ton of certainty about their position to give up a pick in the here and now for an asset that won't mature until three years from now.

crzymdups wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:I just look at it as transferring the asset from 2018 to 2015 with top 5 protection. Youre still making a pick--just 3 years earlier. If you are horrible in 2018--you have protection the pick top 5+ Lets say this--will the pick in 2015 be better than what Shabazz Muhammed will be in 2018? Almost no chance.

Most GMs will not be working at the same job in 2018 - front office turnover happens all the time in the NBA. They have to have a ton of certainty about their position to give up a pick in the here and now for an asset that won't mature until three years from now.

I bet that with GM's turning to a more statistics oriented model that GM's will keep their jobs for longer since there will be less bargs type or stupid moves. Those moves will no longer be acceptable to make.

Teams will be doing a lot of machine learning.