Knicks · Would you trade our pick for Cousins? (page 2)

mreinman wrote:no way in hell!

I am not trading a kid with a rookie contract that we gave birth to for some overrated max player who we need because melo melo melo can't wait around for our baby to grow.

enough with trying to build a team around melo. lets build a team as if he was not here and see where it takes us.

So how exactly do you build a team as if Melo isn't here when he actually is? In your scenario Melo shouldnt be playing until the rookie can hold his own. I've always been of the belief that drafted players are just nostalgic pieces to fans, they hold on to them as if they are gold even when they are mediocre or even worse...garbage. Out of all the drafted players we've had since Ewing only Ewing and David Lee have been all-stars....iirc. Thats pretty damn poor. There's no guarantee our next drafted player will be an all-star, but guess who already is? The topic of the thread, a pretty damn good player, which most drafted players will NEVER reach. A player like Cousins actually might make me interested in watching the triangle offense because it fits him like a glove.

But truth be known, Sacto aint stupid enough to trade a sure thing for a hope, I wish they were though.

holfresh wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

smackeddog wrote:No because we need multiple players. Keep the pick and you can add a talent via the draft AND then use a max on a free agent, where as if you trade for boogie, you've already blown your max. I like him as a player though. I suspect he goes to Boston- they are loaded with stuff to trade.

This. Also, I like following his relationship with Karl in Sacramento.

Cousins makes 14.7 mil next year before the cap explodes..Calderon makes 7...

How did Calderon get into the discussion? I thought the question was would you trade the pick for Cousins.

CrushAlot wrote:

holfresh wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

smackeddog wrote:No because we need multiple players. Keep the pick and you can add a talent via the draft AND then use a max on a free agent, where as if you trade for boogie, you've already blown your max. I like him as a player though. I suspect he goes to Boston- they are loaded with stuff to trade.

This. Also, I like following his relationship with Karl in Sacramento.

Cousins makes 14.7 mil next year before the cap explodes..Calderon makes 7...

How did Calderon get into the discussion? I thought the question was would you trade the pick for Cousins.

both are ridiculous

Fuck No

Player From To G GS MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA 3P% 2P 2PA 2P% FT FTA FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS
1.DeMarcus Cousins 2011 2015 350 328 10859 8.1 17.6 .463 0.0 0.2 .159 8.1 17.3 .467 5.7 7.7 .731 3.7 8.7 12.4 3.1 1.6 1.3 3.9 4.5 21.9
2.Greg Monroe 2011 2015 377 333 11797 6.6 13.0 .505 0.0 0.0 .000 6.6 12.9 .506 3.4 4.9 .692 3.7 6.9 10.6 2.6 1.4 0.7 2.4 2.8 16.5

Player From To G MP PER TS% 3PAr FTr ORB% DRB% TRB% AST% STL% BLK% TOV% USG% OWS DWS WS WS/48 OBPM DBPM BPM VORP
1.DeMarcus Cousins 2011 2015 350 10859 21.5 .523 .013 .441 11.3 27.7 19.4 15.6 2.3 2.8 15.6 30.3 9.2 14.4 23.6 .104 0.0 1.7 1.7 10.2
2 Greg Monroe 2011 2015 377 11797 19.7 .545 .002 .376 11.3 22.8 16.9 12.6 2.0 1.5 13.8 21.9 19.3 12.7 32.0 .130 0.9 1.2 2.1 12.2

Just this season

Player Season Age G GS MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA 3P% 2P 2PA 2P% FT FTA FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS
1 DeMarcus Cousins 2014-15 24 59 59 2013 8.9 19.1 .467 0.0 0.1 .250 8.9 18.9 .469 7.6 9.7 .782 3.3 10.1 13.4 3.8 1.6 1.8 4.5 4.3 25.4
2 Greg Monroe 2014-15 24 68 56 2116 7.1 14.4 .496 0.0 0.0 7.1 14.4 .496 4.2 5.6 .747 3.9 8.0 11.9 2.4 1.3 0.6 2.5 2.4 18.5

Player Season Age G MP PER TS% 3PAr FTr ORB% DRB% TRB% AST% STL% BLK% TOV% USG% OWS DWS WS WS/48 OBPM DBPM BPM VORP
1 DeMarcus Cousins 2014-15 24 59 2013 25.3 .545 .008 .508 10.8 30.6 21.1 20.5 2.3 4.0 16.3 34.1 2.8 3.2 6.0 .143 1.4 3.3 4.7 3.4
2 Greg Monroe 2014-15 24 68 2116 21.2 .548 .000 .392 11.3 25.3 18.0 11.7 1.8 1.3 13.0 23.9 3.9 2.7 6.6 .151 0.6 1.2 1.8 2.0

Clearly Cousins is the better player getting numbers on a much higer usg but the numbers are not extreme enough to lose a pick over him when supposedly the Knicks have the inside track on getting Monroe.

Edit: Nixluva, how do you post stats so neatly?

CrushAlot wrote:

holfresh wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

smackeddog wrote:No because we need multiple players. Keep the pick and you can add a talent via the draft AND then use a max on a free agent, where as if you trade for boogie, you've already blown your max. I like him as a player though. I suspect he goes to Boston- they are loaded with stuff to trade.

This. Also, I like following his relationship with Karl in Sacramento.

Cousins makes 14.7 mil next year before the cap explodes..Calderon makes 7...

How did Calderon get into the discussion? I thought the question was would you trade the pick for Cousins.

Because I typed it..I'm showing his salary isn't ridiculous...

I actually would trade the first pick for him.

First pick of the second round that is.

This is clearly a function of fans not having a high draft pick or cap space in years and it doesn't matter what is being offered. I think it was referred earlier as giving birth to a pick...Keep the cap space and draft pick at all cost..In two years the cap could be north of 95 mil, Cousins will be like Calderon on our books..But again, SAC will never do such a deal...

holfresh wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

holfresh wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

smackeddog wrote:No because we need multiple players. Keep the pick and you can add a talent via the draft AND then use a max on a free agent, where as if you trade for boogie, you've already blown your max. I like him as a player though. I suspect he goes to Boston- they are loaded with stuff to trade.

This. Also, I like following his relationship with Karl in Sacramento.

Cousins makes 14.7 mil next year before the cap explodes..Calderon makes 7...

How did Calderon get into the discussion? I thought the question was would you trade the pick for Cousins.

Because I typed it..I'm showing his salary isn't ridiculous...

I think the point against this move is you give up your pick and your cap space. You can use the pick to draft a player and then use the cap space to sign free agents.

CrushAlot wrote:

holfresh wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

holfresh wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

smackeddog wrote:No because we need multiple players. Keep the pick and you can add a talent via the draft AND then use a max on a free agent, where as if you trade for boogie, you've already blown your max. I like him as a player though. I suspect he goes to Boston- they are loaded with stuff to trade.

This. Also, I like following his relationship with Karl in Sacramento.

Cousins makes 14.7 mil next year before the cap explodes..Calderon makes 7...

How did Calderon get into the discussion? I thought the question was would you trade the pick for Cousins.

Because I typed it..I'm showing his salary isn't ridiculous...

I think the point against this move is you give up your pick and your cap space. You can use the pick to draft a player and then use the cap space to sign free agents.

Question for u..Does Melo and Cousins makes us contenders?..Does Monroe, Melo and any draft pick make us contenders ?

If we got rid of Melo, I would 100% do this and build a team around him. That guy is really good and could work in the triangle.

TripleThreat wrote:

Would you trade our pick for Cousins?

If Sacto was willing to trade Demarcus Cousins for a SINGLE top four first round draft pick in this upcoming draft, I would run, not walk, to say Yes to that deal.

It would be the Knicks trade raping the Kings to the proportion of every Knicks player since 1970 running a train on Vivek Ranadive's daughter and then Vivek himself works the scene a a towel boy and makes sandwiches for everyone afterwards.

It baffles me to the core to hear some of the trade scenarios that many of you will say Yes to, but again, that many of you will say No to, it's just truly baffling.

A young All Star pivot entering his prime years. Though if a deal like that went down, the league would openly investigate both teams ( because it would be so horribly lopsided in favor of the Knicks), Sacto would lose 90 percent of it's season ticket holders and I think Boston and Philly and Phoenix would openly revolt ( they all could offer better packages for Cousins)

98 percent of the time, you don't trade a lottery pick. This would be one of those rare cases in that vaunted 2 percent where you pull the trigger and never look back.

In the soft serve weakened Eastern Conference, Cousins could drag this Knicks team to the 5th seed by himself. The added bonus of a Cousins, though it would never happen in real life, is that Melo would freak out when Cousins would become the New King of Basketball in NY. But unlike Pringles, Chandler and Lin, Melo and Leon Rose won't be able to drive him out of town. Then Melo would demand a trade to the Lakers.

many of us say no cause we want to taste a good pick and watch that pick grow just one more time

mreinman wrote:

holfresh wrote:Who would want 24 pts 13 reb and 2 blks per game from a 24 yr old center that can shoot threes....

so kloves numbers don't matter but cousins is a real winner?

Klove does not provide the punch Cousins can. Klove would basically be a duplicate of Carmelo. A bad fit like Amare

yellowboy90 wrote:

Player From To G GS MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA 3P% 2P 2PA 2P% FT FTA FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS
1.DeMarcus Cousins 2011 2015 350 328 10859 8.1 17.6 .463 0.0 0.2 .159 8.1 17.3 .467 5.7 7.7 .731 3.7 8.7 12.4 3.1 1.6 1.3 3.9 4.5 21.9
2.Greg Monroe 2011 2015 377 333 11797 6.6 13.0 .505 0.0 0.0 .000 6.6 12.9 .506 3.4 4.9 .692 3.7 6.9 10.6 2.6 1.4 0.7 2.4 2.8 16.5

Player From To G MP PER TS% 3PAr FTr ORB% DRB% TRB% AST% STL% BLK% TOV% USG% OWS DWS WS WS/48 OBPM DBPM BPM VORP
1.DeMarcus Cousins 2011 2015 350 10859 21.5 .523 .013 .441 11.3 27.7 19.4 15.6 2.3 2.8 15.6 30.3 9.2 14.4 23.6 .104 0.0 1.7 1.7 10.2
2 Greg Monroe 2011 2015 377 11797 19.7 .545 .002 .376 11.3 22.8 16.9 12.6 2.0 1.5 13.8 21.9 19.3 12.7 32.0 .130 0.9 1.2 2.1 12.2

Just this season

Player Season Age G GS MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA 3P% 2P 2PA 2P% FT FTA FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS
1 DeMarcus Cousins 2014-15 24 59 59 2013 8.9 19.1 .467 0.0 0.1 .250 8.9 18.9 .469 7.6 9.7 .782 3.3 10.1 13.4 3.8 1.6 1.8 4.5 4.3 25.4
2 Greg Monroe 2014-15 24 68 56 2116 7.1 14.4 .496 0.0 0.0 7.1 14.4 .496 4.2 5.6 .747 3.9 8.0 11.9 2.4 1.3 0.6 2.5 2.4 18.5

Player Season Age G MP PER TS% 3PAr FTr ORB% DRB% TRB% AST% STL% BLK% TOV% USG% OWS DWS WS WS/48 OBPM DBPM BPM VORP
1 DeMarcus Cousins 2014-15 24 59 2013 25.3 .545 .008 .508 10.8 30.6 21.1 20.5 2.3 4.0 16.3 34.1 2.8 3.2 6.0 .143 1.4 3.3 4.7 3.4
2 Greg Monroe 2014-15 24 68 2116 21.2 .548 .000 .392 11.3 25.3 18.0 11.7 1.8 1.3 13.0 23.9 3.9 2.7 6.6 .151 0.6 1.2 1.8 2.0

Clearly Cousins is the better player getting numbers on a much higer usg but the numbers are not extreme enough to lose a pick over him when supposedly the Knicks have the inside track on getting Monroe.

Edit: Nixluva, how do you post stats so neatly?

The biggest difference between Monroe and Boogie for me is the 1.8 blocks vs the .5 blocks. I am not in love with Monroe for max dollars. I love Boogie and would give him max money just for his interviews. But, the cost differential between the 1st rd pick and Boogie is too much for me.

If you were to even consider this move you would need to have the Boogie-stension in place AND a third max FA ready to go. He would have to be the last piece of the puzzle, not the first. Jimmy Butler, for instance (somehow knowing Chicago wouldn't match...a trade in place for instance...). Not plausible in my opinion.

That said, I still vote no. I want to develop a player in NY. With the #1 pick in the 2015 NBA draft, the NY Knicks select KARL ANTHONY TOWNS.

I want to develop a player in NY. With the #1 pick in the 2015 NBA draft, the NY Knicks select KARL ANTHONY TOWNS.

I understand the sentiment of growing your own, but as stated earlier, the Knicks have only had two all-stars in thirty years. Better to take the 24 year old Cousins and let him romp in the Garden for the foreseeable future.

TripleThreat wrote:

Would you trade our pick for Cousins?

If Sacto was willing to trade Demarcus Cousins for a SINGLE top four first round draft pick in this upcoming draft, I would run, not walk, to say Yes to that deal.

It would be the Knicks trade raping the Kings to the proportion of every Knicks player since 1970 running a train on Vivek Ranadive's daughter and then Vivek himself works the scene a a towel boy and makes sandwiches for everyone afterwards.

It baffles me to the core to hear some of the trade scenarios that many of you will say Yes to, but again, that many of you will say No to, it's just truly baffling.

A young All Star pivot entering his prime years. Though if a deal like that went down, the league would openly investigate both teams ( because it would be so horribly lopsided in favor of the Knicks), Sacto would lose 90 percent of it's season ticket holders and I think Boston and Philly and Phoenix would openly revolt ( they all could offer better packages for Cousins)

98 percent of the time, you don't trade a lottery pick. This would be one of those rare cases in that vaunted 2 percent where you pull the trigger and never look back.

In the soft serve weakened Eastern Conference, Cousins could drag this Knicks team to the 5th seed by himself. The added bonus of a Cousins, though it would never happen in real life, is that Melo would freak out when Cousins would become the New King of Basketball in NY. But unlike Pringles, Chandler and Lin, Melo and Leon Rose won't be able to drive him out of town. Then Melo would demand a trade to the Lakers.

I would easily call in sick from work to get involved in that scenario involving Ranadive's daughter. Are masks allowed? Oh, and I would also trade our pick for Boogie Cousins. The dude is a beast and he wants to win. His passing skills are a good fit for the offense.

Cousins is tempting. Depends on the other parameters of the deal... like a lower pick coming back, Calderon's salary going out, etc... In a vacuum I say no, Ill just draft a player and swing at FAs with my cap space. If the pot gets sweeter you always have to listen

Sangfroid wrote:

I want to develop a player in NY. With the #1 pick in the 2015 NBA draft, the NY Knicks select KARL ANTHONY TOWNS.

I understand the sentiment of growing your own, but as stated earlier, the Knicks have only had two all-stars in thirty years. Better to take the 24 year old Cousins and let him romp in the Garden for the foreseeable future.

that doesn't sound right. You're exaggerating?
Tyson and Melo were both all-stars together one year. Then other guys like Amare, Marbury, Spree, and Houston I think were all all-stars.

fishmike wrote:Cousins is tempting. Depends on the other parameters of the deal... like a lower pick coming back, Calderon's salary going out, etc... In a vacuum I say no, Ill just draft a player and swing at FAs with my cap space. If the pot gets sweeter you always have to listen

Pick coming back??..KLove cost 2 picks..Cousins is better..Moz was 2 picks..

I think we have an inflated value of this pick..

Bonn1997 wrote:

Sangfroid wrote:

I want to develop a player in NY. With the #1 pick in the 2015 NBA draft, the NY Knicks select KARL ANTHONY TOWNS.

I understand the sentiment of growing your own, but as stated earlier, the Knicks have only had three all-stars drafted in thirty years. Better to take the 24 year old Cousins and let him romp in the Garden for the foreseeable future.

that doesn't sound right. You're exaggerating?
Tyson and Melo were both all-stars together one year. Then other guys like Amare, Marbury, Spree, and Houston I think were all all-stars.

Fixed it

Sangfroid wrote:

I want to develop a player in NY. With the #1 pick in the 2015 NBA draft, the NY Knicks select KARL ANTHONY TOWNS.

I understand the sentiment of growing your own, but as stated earlier, the Knicks have only had two all-stars in thirty years. Better to take the 24 year old Cousins and let him romp in the Garden for the foreseeable future.

I think that is the wrong analysis. You give up the benefit of a rookie scale contract player that will project to be a max player and you give up salary cap space too. You would have to determine that Boogie is better than BOTH your ROOKIE and your MAX FA in order to make that decision. There are only a few players out there that are worth that analysis -- Anthony Davis, Lebron, Steph Curry, Westbrook -- I am not sure that Boogie crosses that threshold. I voted no.