absolutely loved his game...when he had two functional knees.
callmened wrote:absolutely loved his game...when he had two functional knees.
Yeah, it's a shame. The good news is that he was never really a high flyer to begin with. I would still consider bringing him in on a cheap deal.
The only way I could think of him leaving Chi is if Thibs is fired and Butler gets made. Even that is a long shot since he is a rfa. Even if they add 1st refusal and trade kicker It will still be tough.
Plus, if he wants to leave Dallas would probably some into play. They would need help from Tyson and hope Ellis opt out.
I still like Middleton more but it's a similar problem.
i think thibs is half way packed to orlando. lol. several articles say hes already out the door
its a long shot of course, im just think we have a (better) chance because chicago is cheap
H1AND1 wrote:I'd like to try to get Wes Matthews on the cheap coming off the Acl tear. I know it's risky but there may be a chance for value there. Also, take a flier on KJ McDaniels from HOU, very young SG who is a UFA. Out of Green, Butler, Kawhi, I think the only one who may be attainable is Butler because CHI can be cheap. Butler on current max is a helluva bargain when the cap explodes in two years. Of course Chi knows this too. Middleton is another who is set to breakout and I'd love him too at the minimax but MIL 100% matches.
I don't think NY should go for any of the marquee guys. Get all value, solid vets or young vets and save the space for the future. Building a solid team takes time and Aldrige, Gasol, etc aren't worth splurging the entire wad of cash on.
For example: DeMar Carroll, Aminu, Milsap, Ed Davis, Amir Johnson, Gerald Green
Id ratrher pay 16mm for kanter or Lopez than get a secondary player like the bigs you mentioned. The east is terrible a guy like Kanter would absolutely dominate and thats why I like Okafor to. We can poo poo the defense but there are things each team can do to mitigate problems like that. A perfect example is Dirk Nowistki--Dirk was on a championship team and many teams that couldve won a championship. But Dirk was always a negative defender--so Dallas got smart--played some zone got rim protection and the appropriate role players to go with him. Same thing with Miami--Chris Bosh is not a great interior defender--thats why they have Andersen Haslem etc.. its easier to find the role player defender than the 20+ point big. It would be nice to have a combo from 1 player--but its not going to happen.
i wouldnt mind Kanter at all. im a fan. if you surround him with defenders (carroll, beverley, towns) then it could work.
yellowboy90 wrote:The only way I could think of him leaving Chi is if Thibs is fired and Butler gets made. Even that is a long shot since he is a rfa. Even if they add 1st refusal and trade kicker It will still be tough.
Plus, if he wants to leave Dallas would probably some into play. They would need help from Tyson and hope Ellis opt out.I still like Middleton more but it's a similar problem.
Its not even up to the players and all contracts signed this year are at a 40% discount. the ONLY reason why I even put down Kanter is the realism that OKC will have to pay Westbrook and Durant somewhere in the 30-33mm per year range each. Then you start talking Ibaka 12.5 and probably a raise they have Mcgary and Adams--to me Kanter is not going to see 35 minutes there. I really think he is the only major RFA that could be had--I think the rest are untouchable will be signed or matched.
they dont have to worry about wKD until 2016...and westbrook until 2017...each yr the cap rises and it will be 1 billions trillion by the time these two have to be signed. for THIS summer, they have to worry about that
they dont have to worry about wKD until 2016...and westbrook until 2017...each yr the cap rises and it will be 1 billions trillion by the time these two have to be signed. for THIS summer, they have to worry about that
callmened wrote:in honor of BRIGGS and others here who opine on who the knicks should target, ill give my own. as well as realistic other options/lineups#1 target should be jimmy butler
- still young (26 by the start of next season)
- hard worker who improved from NOTHING (literally - he was once homeless)
- 6-7 truck who has learned how to shoot.
- excellent 2 way player on defense and offense
- perfect for the triangle (back cuts, spot up jumpers)
- chicago is cheap and wont pay him even though hes a restricted FA
- id be willing to OVERPAY for his services
- this season = 20ppg/5.3 rebs/3.3 asts/37% from 3
i think obtaining butler is quite realistic at 17mill (which i think is the max for a 4th yr player)
---Assuming we have about 35mill in cap space (were at 32mill ad new cap is at 67mill)---
Lineup
PG Mo williams = (5 mill) (or insert stop gap PG that isnt that good but not awful i.e sessions/beverley)
SG D. Green = (7mill) i think his price will go down since hes having a bad playoffs (dude cant dribble but he can defend and shoot 3s)
SF Butler (17 mill)- as stated earlier
PF Melo - were stuck with his bad knee/age/and shoot 1st mentality; but there are worse things in the world
C Towns - i prefer towns but it wouldnt surprise me or piss me off if we get Okafor
Bench
PG Shved - he converted me into a believer but still sucks on D
SG Hardaway - 6th man scorer off the bench (who should just focus on scoring since he cant play d)
SF Early - i never expected much from a 2nd rd draft pick. ill stay patient with him
PF Lavoy Allen (2 mill) underrated defender (or insert dante cunningham)
C Ajinca (3 mill) - new orleans cant afford him. dude is a massive defender whos only 24
Scrubs
PG Jose Calderon - phil says hes keeping him but i think thats a smoke screen
SG Galloway - this is where he actually belongs. lol. but im rooting for him
SF Ledo - i like this guy in spurs
PF Lance Thomas - hes earned a spot on the team
C Cole Aldrich - sure why not?
--- this should be good for a 40-45 win season. the following year, they need a PG---
I would love for you to be right, but I figured it was more likely Chicago matched Butler than Milwaukee matched Middleton. I think he will get the $16.775 (25%) max. I would certainly make Butler an immediate offer unless I thought it would hold me up in approaching other players while Chicago stalled 3 days before matching. I like your squad though the pricing on FAs seems a little low. I am not excited to start Melo at the 4, though our rebounding would be suspect with a stretch 5 and Melo at the 4. This lineup would have a lot of D and some good offense if we could get Butler.
Galloway ($1M)
Butler ($17MM)
Melo ($23MM)
Towns ($5MM)
Biymbo ($6MM)
mreinman wrote:callmened wrote:s3231 wrote:Who is your top REALISTIC target?
insert TOBIAS HARRIS instead of butler
what??
I think Tobias Harris is the #1 most attainable free agent target. I don't necessarily see him as a fit here but I do think he's the most likely guy to leave. I think it's virtually guaranteed that he leaves Orlando.
callmened wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:Look, I like Butler as much as the next guy. But the Bulls arent going to let him go and I don't think he wants to go. He's stated as much. Communications between Butler and the Bulls need to deteriorate big time for us to have a slither of a chance.
thats fair. i just cant imagine them resigning him due to their cheap history. i think kawai resigns with the spurs but the bulls are notoriously cheap. i guess well see
Chi is cheap? Please show me the great FAs who have left because Chi didnt want to pay. I mean I love the idea of getting Butler. Its a non starter. There is zero chance they dont match, and if cheap comes into it they will float him around as a S&T to the best bidder.
Chi knows he's a max guy and will pay him that. They have plenty of options to shed salary.
Can we please stop posting about RFAs? The only RFAs that go to other teams are ones who are role players but offered nutty contracts like Jeremy Lin and Omar Asik. Butler is the best player on the Bulls. Suggesting Chi wont sign him is not reality based. Great player, zero shot.
s3231 wrote:BRIGGS wrote:s3231 wrote:Who is your top REALISTIC target?
I think fans are stuck on the hope that somehow we are getting one of Leonard Drey Green or Butler and each of them have no chance of being a Knick. And almost every fan assumes we are getting Karl Towns and not even thinking about scenarios of picks 3 4 or even 5. If we get pick #5 it might be worth it for the humor.
.
Yeah, it's funny because we all say we are patient but then a decent number of fans and most of the media are ready to call the off-season a bust if we don't land one of the top prizes that are unlikely to move.There is nothing wrong with the organization methodically adding pieces to get us to the state where we can contend again. It rarely happens overnight and people tend to forget how asset barren we were over the past couple of seasons (the cupboard was emptied to bring Melo here). We need to start accumulating assets and I think Phil is being realistic when he says it's going to take some time to get there.
I don't care if some fans think that way. The problem is that Dolan has historically operated that way.
I like Butler, but if we can get his clone (Winslow) in the draft, my number one FA would be Gassol. If that does not pan out, I woul shoot for Aldridge or Monroe
callmened wrote:in honor of BRIGGS and others here who opine on who the knicks should target, ill give my own. as well as realistic other options/lineups#1 target should be jimmy butler
- still young (26 by the start of next season)
- hard worker who improved from NOTHING (literally - he was once homeless)
- 6-7 truck who has learned how to shoot.
- excellent 2 way player on defense and offense
- perfect for the triangle (back cuts, spot up jumpers)
- chicago is cheap and wont pay him even though hes a restricted FA
- id be willing to OVERPAY for his services
- this season = 20ppg/5.3 rebs/3.3 asts/37% from 3
i think obtaining butler is quite realistic at 17mill (which i think is the max for a 4th yr player)
---Assuming we have about 35mill in cap space (were at 32mill ad new cap is at 67mill)---
Lineup
PG Mo williams = (5 mill) (or insert stop gap PG that isnt that good but not awful i.e sessions/beverley)
SG D. Green = (7mill) i think his price will go down since hes having a bad playoffs (dude cant dribble but he can defend and shoot 3s)
SF Butler (17 mill)- as stated earlier
PF Melo - were stuck with his bad knee/age/and shoot 1st mentality; but there are worse things in the world
C Towns - i prefer towns but it wouldnt surprise me or piss me off if we get Okafor
Bench
PG Shved - he converted me into a believer but still sucks on D
SG Hardaway - 6th man scorer off the bench (who should just focus on scoring since he cant play d)
SF Early - i never expected much from a 2nd rd draft pick. ill stay patient with him
PF Lavoy Allen (2 mill) underrated defender (or insert dante cunningham)
C Ajinca (3 mill) - new orleans cant afford him. dude is a massive defender whos only 24
Scrubs
PG Jose Calderon - phil says hes keeping him but i think thats a smoke screen
SG Galloway - this is where he actually belongs. lol. but im rooting for him
SF Ledo - i like this guy in spurs
PF Lance Thomas - hes earned a spot on the team
C Cole Aldrich - sure why not?
--- this should be good for a 40-45 win season. the following year, they need a PG---
So who will be doing the rebounding for us with that lineup?? We need more size down low and the triangle needs more size down low. I love J.Butler and i'm sure everyone does and I'm definitely cool with putting a offer out there for him but even though the Bulls are cheap they're not gonna let him go. I'd also rather we sign Carroll over Green for the 2 spot and he can also play the 3 when Melo comes off the court or if they wanna slide Melo to the 4 spot against certain teams/lineups.
Calderon/Gallo/Shved
D.Carrol/W.Mathews
Melo
P.Milsap (can't figure out why he doesn't get more love from anyone on here)
Towns/OK4
D.Russell/E.Mudiay
T.Hardaway/Galloway
Melo
LMA/P.Millsap
R.Lopez/O.Asik/B.Wright
Either of those teams would compete in the east.
BRIGGS wrote:s3231 wrote:Who is your top REALISTIC target?
I think fans are stuck on the hope that somehow we are getting one of Leonard Drey Green or Butler and each of them have no chance of being a Knick. And almost every fan assumes we are getting Karl Towns and not even thinking about scenarios of picks 3 4 or even 5. If we get pick #5 it might be worth it for the humor.
I dont think anyone thinks we're getting any of those three and fans are more just saying we should give them offers and hope for the best. There isn't a single person that knows what Phil is thinking or who he's going to target in free agency or in the draft after Towns. Everyone is just having fun and coming up with what they hope he does or who they think he's going to go for but it feels to me like Phil already has a solid plan in place and there's a lot of ways he could go. This isn't a one/two year rebuild so Phil could be planning on adding one big name this free agency and some role players, he could be planning on signing two tier 2 players and a bench player and then when the cap goes up the following year he can add another big name. I'm more than ready to get this thing going and stop reading all the posts of people thinking they know what will happen when nobody does.
BRIGGS wrote:callmened wrote:s3231 wrote:Who is your top REALISTIC target?
insert TOBIAS HARRIS instead of butler
So you want to spend 16mm $ on a player who plays the same position as Melo and puts up hollow stats on a bad team yet you think Kanter or Lopez who are twice as good as Harris scks? Not to mention Harris has barely played more than 2/3 of a season one time?
Lopez is twice as good as Harris? Lol that's a joke. Lopez is just ok and that's all he is and Harris is already better than him and he's still getting better.
SupremeCommander wrote:mreinman wrote:callmened wrote:s3231 wrote:Who is your top REALISTIC target?
insert TOBIAS HARRIS instead of butler
what??
I think Tobias Harris is the #1 most attainable free agent target. I don't necessarily see him as a fit here but I do think he's the most likely guy to leave. I think it's virtually guaranteed that he leaves Orlando.
You do realize that Harris is a RFA right? So even though he might not want to play there Orlando still can match any offer he gets.
newyorker4ever wrote:BRIGGS wrote:callmened wrote:s3231 wrote:Who is your top REALISTIC target?
insert TOBIAS HARRIS instead of butler
So you want to spend 16mm $ on a player who plays the same position as Melo and puts up hollow stats on a bad team yet you think Kanter or Lopez who are twice as good as Harris scks? Not to mention Harris has barely played more than 2/3 of a season one time?
Lopez is twice as good as Harris? Lol that's a joke. Lopez is just ok and that's all he is and Harris is already better than him and he's still getting better.
How is Harris better than Lopez? In what way? Not on offense not on defense not effect on game? His assit to TO ratio is equal--you know how bad that is for a wing? We already have one high usage player who doesnt like to pass--what has that gotten us? And while Brook has had some injury problems--Harris has been a walking injury. Hes had hollow stats on a bad team. I think Kanter should be the number 1 target if hes available for the max(although Im starting to doubt it--I think with year 5 OKC can offer a longer contract that may have less per year but the attractiveness will be too close to give up). So that leaves Lopez and Monroe--just like the other post said free agency wont be ez. And lastly on Orlando--why wouldnt the Magic match any offer?
If we're still in fantasy land, my pick is still Marc Gasol. Not sure why he's less realistic than Jimmy Butler. Butler is RFA and there is ZERO CHANCE Chicago doesn't match.
Marc Gasol is unrestricted, his brother loved Phil Jackson, his friend Jose Calderon is on the team, Memphis is a small market and that team may have maxed out its potential.
crzymdups wrote:If we're still in fantasy land, my pick is still Marc Gasol. Not sure why he's less realistic than Jimmy Butler. Butler is RFA and there is ZERO CHANCE Chicago doesn't match.Marc Gasol is unrestricted, his brother loved Phil Jackson, his friend Jose Calderon is on the team, Memphis is a small market and that team may have maxed out its potential.
The cap is going from 63mm to atleast 108 that an increase of 71%. I think every Knick fan might have to come to the realization that we are not getting ANY top tier RFA considering the discount(including Kanter although out of everyone IF you do the math and roster check hes probably the only possible target as they have to pay Westbrook and Durant close to 32mm each)
