Knicks · Larry Brown on not taking the best player (page 1)
Pierce, of course, went to Boston with the 10th pick and became a 10-time NBA All-Star. Imagine if he had spent his early years with Allen Iverson, on a 76ers squad that had all types of defense, with Larry Brown as the coach, irritating his stars while coaxing so much out of them.
Despite what could have been, Brown said he feels "good that we honored our commitment," and believes Hughes would have "worked out great" for the 76ers if he had been more patient with playing time early in his career. Still, Philadelphia passed on a future Hall of Famer -- who, in the year 2015, is still inspiring a playoff team and infuriating opposing fan bases -- for a long-armed journeyman who shot just a tick greater than 40 percent for his career. To further rankle 76ers fans, Dallas drafted Dirk Nowitzki immediately after Hughes.
Ultimately, the ill-advised promise changed Brown's draft strategy.
"I always think you should take the very best player," he said. "Whatever we wrote on the board, we used to write by position during the draft the best players, then we would write needs, and then we would write the best players period. And I always used to tell our staff, we've gotta go for the best player period and not even think about our needs, unless they were very, very close."
Wisely, the coach added, "I would never do that again."
Russell can be Curry
Okafor can be.....Al Jefferson, Zach Randolph, Enes Kanter...
"I always think you should take the very best player" Larry Brown.
My ? is. Is Okafor better then Russell?
CrushAlot wrote:See the Jordan Hill draft, Danillo Gallinari draft, the Renaldo Balkman draft, Sweetney, Frye etc.
ha ha lumping in gallinari with these other players. any opportunity to crap on gallo, right? who should they have drafted 6th that year? who has been more effective and a better pro? gordon is garbage, lopez has been injured and soft, hibbert was a project with one decent season. whatcha got?
1 7 Eric Gordon SG United States Los Angeles Clippers Indiana (Fr.)
1 8 Joe Alexander SF United States Milwaukee Bucks West Virginia (Jr.)
1 9 D. J. Augustin PG United States Charlotte Bobcats Texas (So.)
1 10 Brook Lopez+ C United States New Jersey Nets Stanford (So.)
1 11 Jerryd Bayless PG United States Indiana Pacers (traded to Portland)[b] Arizona (Fr.)
1 12 Jason Thompson PF United States Sacramento Kings Rider (Sr.)
1 13 Brandon Rush SG United States Portland Trail Blazers (traded to Indiana)[b] Kansas (Jr.)
1 14 Anthony RandolphPF United Statesb[›]Golden State Warriors LSU (Fr.)
1 15 Robin Lopez C United States Phoenix Suns (from Atlanta)[n] Stanford (So.)
1 16 Marreese SpeightsPF United States Philadelphia 76ers Florida (So.)
1 17 Roy Hibbert+ C United StatesJamaicac[›]Toronto Raptors (traded to Indiana)[c] Georgetown (Sr.)
1 18 JaVale McGee C United States Washington Wizards Nevada (So.)
1 19 J. J. Hickson PF United States Cleveland Cavaliers NC State (Fr.)
1 20 Alexis Ajinça C France Charlotte Bobcats (from Denver)[o] Hyères-Toulon (France) 1988
jamp wrote:Towns can be DuncanRussell can be Curry
Okafor can be.....Al Jefferson, Zach Randolph, Enes Kanter...
"I always think you should take the very best player" Larry Brown.
My ? is. Is Okafor better then Russell?
I'm still skeptical of Towns not being a complete bust on a Greg Oden (health wise)/Michael Olowokandi (talent wise) type level. But consensus is that he's special because every other player his height is a stiff by nature.
dk7th wrote:CrushAlot wrote:See the Jordan Hill draft, Danillo Gallinari draft, the Renaldo Balkman draft, Sweetney, Frye etc.ha ha lumping in gallinari with these other players. any opportunity to crap on gallo, right? who should they have drafted 6th that year? who has been more effective and a better pro? gordon is garbage, lopez has been injured and soft, hibbert was a project with one decent season. whatcha got?
1 7 Eric Gordon SG United States Los Angeles Clippers Indiana (Fr.)
1 8 Joe Alexander SF United States Milwaukee Bucks West Virginia (Jr.)
1 9 D. J. Augustin PG United States Charlotte Bobcats Texas (So.)
1 10 Brook Lopez+ C United States New Jersey Nets Stanford (So.)
1 11 Jerryd Bayless PG United States Indiana Pacers (traded to Portland)[b] Arizona (Fr.)
1 12 Jason Thompson PF United States Sacramento Kings Rider (Sr.)
1 13 Brandon Rush SG United States Portland Trail Blazers (traded to Indiana)[b] Kansas (Jr.)
1 14 Anthony RandolphPF United Statesb[›]Golden State Warriors LSU (Fr.)
1 15 Robin Lopez C United States Phoenix Suns (from Atlanta)[n] Stanford (So.)
1 16 Marreese SpeightsPF United States Philadelphia 76ers Florida (So.)
1 17 Roy Hibbert+ C United StatesJamaicac[›]Toronto Raptors (traded to Indiana)[c] Georgetown (Sr.)
1 18 JaVale McGee C United States Washington Wizards Nevada (So.)
1 19 J. J. Hickson PF United States Cleveland Cavaliers NC State (Fr.)
1 20 Alexis Ajinça C France Charlotte Bobcats (from Denver)[o] Hyères-Toulon (France) 1988
dk7th wrote:CrushAlot wrote:See the Jordan Hill draft, Danillo Gallinari draft, the Renaldo Balkman draft, Sweetney, Frye etc.ha ha lumping in gallinari with these other players. any opportunity to crap on gallo, right? who should they have drafted 6th that year? who has been more effective and a better pro? gordon is garbage, lopez has been injured and soft, hibbert was a project with one decent season. whatcha got?
1 7 Eric Gordon SG United States Los Angeles Clippers Indiana (Fr.)
1 8 Joe Alexander SF United States Milwaukee Bucks West Virginia (Jr.)
1 9 D. J. Augustin PG United States Charlotte Bobcats Texas (So.)
1 10 Brook Lopez+ C United States New Jersey Nets Stanford (So.)
1 11 Jerryd Bayless PG United States Indiana Pacers (traded to Portland)[b] Arizona (Fr.)
1 12 Jason Thompson PF United States Sacramento Kings Rider (Sr.)
1 13 Brandon Rush SG United States Portland Trail Blazers (traded to Indiana)[b] Kansas (Jr.)
1 14 Anthony RandolphPF United Statesb[›]Golden State Warriors LSU (Fr.)
1 15 Robin Lopez C United States Phoenix Suns (from Atlanta)[n] Stanford (So.)
1 16 Marreese SpeightsPF United States Philadelphia 76ers Florida (So.)
1 17 Roy Hibbert+ C United StatesJamaicac[›]Toronto Raptors (traded to Indiana)[c] Georgetown (Sr.)
1 18 JaVale McGee C United States Washington Wizards Nevada (So.)
1 19 J. J. Hickson PF United States Cleveland Cavaliers NC State (Fr.)
1 20 Alexis Ajinça C France Charlotte Bobcats (from Denver)[o] Hyères-Toulon (France) 1988
You stopped right before Ryan Anderson. I thought the Nets got three players better than Gallo at the time with Bropez, Anderson and CDR. They got two. The smart pick was Bropez but if you think centers slow down the game you pass on a guy that could be a cornerstone for your franchise for 12-15 years and draft your roommate's kid even if he already has a bad back.
NardDogNation wrote:Gallo at 6, could've been had at 10. We were the only team that was dumb enough to take him that early. The reality is that everyone knew that Brook Lopez was a far superior player and was projected to go no later than 6th but as high as 3. The right move would've been to select Lopez at 6 and then trade down to the Nets for picks 10 and 21. Instead of just Gallo, a good player in his own right, we could've gotten both him AND one of Ryan Anderson, Nick Batum, Serge Ibaka, DeAndre Jordan, Omer Asik, Marc Gasol, etc.
dk7th wrote:CrushAlot wrote:See the Jordan Hill draft, Danillo Gallinari draft, the Renaldo Balkman draft, Sweetney, Frye etc.ha ha lumping in gallinari with these other players. any opportunity to crap on gallo, right? who should they have drafted 6th that year? who has been more effective and a better pro? gordon is garbage, lopez has been injured and soft, hibbert was a project with one decent season. whatcha got?
1 7 Eric Gordon SG United States Los Angeles Clippers Indiana (Fr.)
1 8 Joe Alexander SF United States Milwaukee Bucks West Virginia (Jr.)
1 9 D. J. Augustin PG United States Charlotte Bobcats Texas (So.)
1 10 Brook Lopez+ C United States New Jersey Nets Stanford (So.)
1 11 Jerryd Bayless PG United States Indiana Pacers (traded to Portland)[b] Arizona (Fr.)
1 12 Jason Thompson PF United States Sacramento Kings Rider (Sr.)
1 13 Brandon Rush SG United States Portland Trail Blazers (traded to Indiana)[b] Kansas (Jr.)
1 14 Anthony RandolphPF United Statesb[›]Golden State Warriors LSU (Fr.)
1 15 Robin Lopez C United States Phoenix Suns (from Atlanta)[n] Stanford (So.)
1 16 Marreese SpeightsPF United States Philadelphia 76ers Florida (So.)
1 17 Roy Hibbert+ C United StatesJamaicac[›]Toronto Raptors (traded to Indiana)[c] Georgetown (Sr.)
1 18 JaVale McGee C United States Washington Wizards Nevada (So.)
1 19 J. J. Hickson PF United States Cleveland Cavaliers NC State (Fr.)
1 20 Alexis Ajinça C France Charlotte Bobcats (from Denver)[o] Hyères-Toulon (France) 1988
"could've been had at 10" is pure speculation. the knicks had hired d'antoni, and d'antoni teams have zero need for a plodding, passing-averse, soft big man. the knicks had no need for lopez based on their plan to run a SSOL offense. now, if you want to insist that the only way to draft is always based on "the best player available" you may have a point-- one that i happen to disagree with-- but then i would also argue, and back up with statistics and my own eye test, that they are very close in talent.
CrushAlot wrote:See the Jordan Hill draft, Danillo Gallinari draft, the Renaldo Balkman draft, Sweetney, Frye etc.
The Sweetney draft was a weak one- you could easily make a case for picking him that year. David West would have been a better choice in retrospect, but there was not much in that draft.
Look at the players available in the Frye draft- not exactly a plethora of future stars available when we picked in this one. Granger would have been nice, but we also picked up Lee in that one.
No comment on the Balkman pick.
Do you think that Memphis would have taken Hill instead of Thabeet?
Would Miami have rather had Gallinari instead of Beasley, or Memphis done better ending up with Gallinari instead of Mayo?
Guys act like there is some kind of science involved in drafting- the league is littered with playuers who were highly touted and are now scrubs. Nothing is guaranteed, and when you add potential injuries early in a player's career, even a very good player can become a diminished one.
WaltLongmire wrote:CrushAlot wrote:See the Jordan Hill draft, Danillo Gallinari draft, the Renaldo Balkman draft, Sweetney, Frye etc.The Sweetney draft was a weak one- you could easily make a case for picking him that year. David West would have been a better choice in retrospect, but there was not much in that draft.
Look at the players available in the Frye draft- not exactly a plethora of future stars available when we picked in this one. Granger would have been nice, but we also picked up Lee in that one.
No comment on the Balkman pick.
Do you think that Memphis would have taken Hill instead of Thabeet?
Would Miami have rather had Gallinari instead of Beasley, or Memphis done better ending up with Gallinari instead of Mayo?
Guys act like there is some kind of science involved in drafting- the league is littered with playuers who were highly touted and are now scrubs. Nothing is guaranteed, and when you add potential injuries early in a player's career, even a very good player can become a diminished one.
and lest we forget, beasley at 2 has been trash and bust, mayo at 3 remains barely adequate. gallinari has been a better pro than either.
miami would have been much better off with gallinari, but memphis would have had to have traded rudy gay in order to make room for gallinari, which would also have been the right move.
nixluva wrote:This draft has a solid top 5 IMO. I think all 5 have a very low bust factor. Towns, Okafor, Russell, Mudiay and Winslow are all legit NBA talents. IMO just keep it simple and take BPA no matter which pick we get. Unless you get a great offer for pick 4 or 5.
you take the best player available when you are doing a complete rebuild. are the knicks doing a complete rebuild? lets say they draft first, who do they pick?
BRIGGS wrote:We took Larry Hughes because (with the eighth pick) because we thought we had a need," he said. "But the reason we took Larry is I promised him when we interviewed him -- we knew we were getting the eighth pick -- I promised him if he was there at (No.) 8 we would take him."Pierce, of course, went to Boston with the 10th pick and became a 10-time NBA All-Star. Imagine if he had spent his early years with Allen Iverson, on a 76ers squad that had all types of defense, with Larry Brown as the coach, irritating his stars while coaxing so much out of them.
Despite what could have been, Brown said he feels "good that we honored our commitment," and believes Hughes would have "worked out great" for the 76ers if he had been more patient with playing time early in his career. Still, Philadelphia passed on a future Hall of Famer -- who, in the year 2015, is still inspiring a playoff team and infuriating opposing fan bases -- for a long-armed journeyman who shot just a tick greater than 40 percent for his career. To further rankle 76ers fans, Dallas drafted Dirk Nowitzki immediately after Hughes.
Ultimately, the ill-advised promise changed Brown's draft strategy.
"I always think you should take the very best player," he said. "Whatever we wrote on the board, we used to write by position during the draft the best players, then we would write needs, and then we would write the best players period. And I always used to tell our staff, we've gotta go for the best player period and not even think about our needs, unless they were very, very close."
Wisely, the coach added, "I would never do that again."
Mentioned this as a response to you once before...
Who decides who the BPA is? You have guys around here who at once time or another have thrown out Towns, OK4, Russell, and Mudiay as being worthy of the top pick.
You've had experts making their evaluations and "consensus number one" tags have been put on Towns and OK4 during the second half of the season, yet players like Winston and Kaminsky were as good as anyone in the tournament.
You probably have a number of guys worthy of being a top 1-3 pick (Anywhere from 5-9, in my opinion), and who knows which player ends up being the best player in this group 5 years down the line.
By the way, your story is as much about personal commitment as need, IMO.
Maybe Phil feels he has to take Russell because he's already made a $25,000 "commitment" to him?
BRIGGS wrote:We took Larry Hughes because (with the eighth pick) because we thought we had a need," he said. "But the reason we took Larry is I promised him when we interviewed him -- we knew we were getting the eighth pick -- I promised him if he was there at (No.) 8 we would take him."Pierce, of course, went to Boston with the 10th pick and became a 10-time NBA All-Star. Imagine if he had spent his early years with Allen Iverson, on a 76ers squad that had all types of defense, with Larry Brown as the coach, irritating his stars while coaxing so much out of them.
Despite what could have been, Brown said he feels "good that we honored our commitment," and believes Hughes would have "worked out great" for the 76ers if he had been more patient with playing time early in his career. Still, Philadelphia passed on a future Hall of Famer -- who, in the year 2015, is still inspiring a playoff team and infuriating opposing fan bases -- for a long-armed journeyman who shot just a tick greater than 40 percent for his career. To further rankle 76ers fans, Dallas drafted Dirk Nowitzki immediately after Hughes.
Ultimately, the ill-advised promise changed Brown's draft strategy.
"I always think you should take the very best player," he said. "Whatever we wrote on the board, we used to write by position during the draft the best players, then we would write needs, and then we would write the best players period. And I always used to tell our staff, we've gotta go for the best player period and not even think about our needs, unless they were very, very close."
Wisely, the coach added, "I would never do that again."
LB had Isiah trade Reezy for Steve Francis..Can some one inquire about that?
dk7th wrote:nixluva wrote:This draft has a solid top 5 IMO. I think all 5 have a very low bust factor. Towns, Okafor, Russell, Mudiay and Winslow are all legit NBA talents. IMO just keep it simple and take BPA no matter which pick we get. Unless you get a great offer for pick 4 or 5.you take the best player available when you are doing a complete rebuild. are the knicks doing a complete rebuild? lets say they draft first, who do they pick?
Man WTF are you talking about??? This is about as close to a rebuild as we can get. Phil sounds like he would take Towns. If he lands #2 I'd guess he'd take Okafor. Both players are very close.
nixluva wrote:dk7th wrote:nixluva wrote:This draft has a solid top 5 IMO. I think all 5 have a very low bust factor. Towns, Okafor, Russell, Mudiay and Winslow are all legit NBA talents. IMO just keep it simple and take BPA no matter which pick we get. Unless you get a great offer for pick 4 or 5.you take the best player available when you are doing a complete rebuild. are the knicks doing a complete rebuild? lets say they draft first, who do they pick?
Man WTF are you talking about??? This is about as close to a rebuild as we can get. Phil sounds like he would take Towns. If he lands #2 I'd guess he'd take Okafor. Both players are very close.
so it isn't a complete rebuild, right? if it isn't then the criterion can't be that simple as bpa, not to mention who decides who that is, as waltlongmire has addressed....
dk7th wrote:nixluva wrote:dk7th wrote:nixluva wrote:This draft has a solid top 5 IMO. I think all 5 have a very low bust factor. Towns, Okafor, Russell, Mudiay and Winslow are all legit NBA talents. IMO just keep it simple and take BPA no matter which pick we get. Unless you get a great offer for pick 4 or 5.you take the best player available when you are doing a complete rebuild. are the knicks doing a complete rebuild? lets say they draft first, who do they pick?
Man WTF are you talking about??? This is about as close to a rebuild as we can get. Phil sounds like he would take Towns. If he lands #2 I'd guess he'd take Okafor. Both players are very close.
so it isn't a complete rebuild, right? if it isn't then the criterion can't be that simple as bpa, not to mention who decides who that is, as waltlongmire has addressed....
We don't need to be so literal or concerned given we have a top 5 pick. There is no Melo type in the top 5 of this draft. BPA is going to be determined by Phil and his staff. No other opinion matters. It's who they think are the best players.
nixluva wrote:dk7th wrote:nixluva wrote:dk7th wrote:nixluva wrote:This draft has a solid top 5 IMO. I think all 5 have a very low bust factor. Towns, Okafor, Russell, Mudiay and Winslow are all legit NBA talents. IMO just keep it simple and take BPA no matter which pick we get. Unless you get a great offer for pick 4 or 5.you take the best player available when you are doing a complete rebuild. are the knicks doing a complete rebuild? lets say they draft first, who do they pick?
Man WTF are you talking about??? This is about as close to a rebuild as we can get. Phil sounds like he would take Towns. If he lands #2 I'd guess he'd take Okafor. Both players are very close.
so it isn't a complete rebuild, right? if it isn't then the criterion can't be that simple as bpa, not to mention who decides who that is, as waltlongmire has addressed....
We don't need to be so literal or concerned given we have a top 5 pick. There is no Melo type in the top 5 of this draft. BPA is going to be determined by Phil and his staff. No other opinion matters. It's who they think are the best players.
My God lets not over rate Carmelo Anthony.
As for the draft order:
*The Clippers, at 7, already had Tim Thomas signed to a long term deal at the 3 spot and drafted Al Thornton, a promising rookie, with the 14th pick just the season before. Needless to say, they were not looking at Gallo with that pick.
*The Bucks at 8, were not looking to draft anyone but Joe Alexander. That guy actually fell in the draft but was still being considered a sleeper. The cherry on top is that he grew up in China and spoke fluent Mandarin. That was a huge plus for them because the season before they drafted Yi Jianlian with a top 5 pick, who wanted no part of Milwaukee. The prevailing thought back then was that Joe could help Yi feel more comfortable in that environment that was devoid of an Asian population.
*The Bobcats at 9, were taking DJ Augustin at all costs because Larry Brown was/is a short-sighted moron. He wanted to replace Raymond Felton above all else, which had him focused on drafting need instead of BPA. As a matter of fact, Jordan and Cho are on record as having wanted Lopez but passed to oblige Brown.
All that means that Gallo would've been available at 10. This is a fact, not an opinion. Par for the course with Walsh though, we reached on a prospect that could've easily been acquired later in the draft (see Toney Douglas, Iman Shumpert, Andy Rautins, Josh Harrellson, etc.).
dk7th wrote:NardDogNation wrote:Gallo at 6, could've been had at 10. We were the only team that was dumb enough to take him that early. The reality is that everyone knew that Brook Lopez was a far superior player and was projected to go no later than 6th but as high as 3. The right move would've been to select Lopez at 6 and then trade down to the Nets for picks 10 and 21. Instead of just Gallo, a good player in his own right, we could've gotten both him AND one of Ryan Anderson, Nick Batum, Serge Ibaka, DeAndre Jordan, Omer Asik, Marc Gasol, etc.
dk7th wrote:CrushAlot wrote:See the Jordan Hill draft, Danillo Gallinari draft, the Renaldo Balkman draft, Sweetney, Frye etc.ha ha lumping in gallinari with these other players. any opportunity to crap on gallo, right? who should they have drafted 6th that year? who has been more effective and a better pro? gordon is garbage, lopez has been injured and soft, hibbert was a project with one decent season. whatcha got?
1 7 Eric Gordon SG United States Los Angeles Clippers Indiana (Fr.)
1 8 Joe Alexander SF United States Milwaukee Bucks West Virginia (Jr.)
1 9 D. J. Augustin PG United States Charlotte Bobcats Texas (So.)
1 10 Brook Lopez+ C United States New Jersey Nets Stanford (So.)
1 11 Jerryd Bayless PG United States Indiana Pacers (traded to Portland)[b] Arizona (Fr.)
1 12 Jason Thompson PF United States Sacramento Kings Rider (Sr.)
1 13 Brandon Rush SG United States Portland Trail Blazers (traded to Indiana)[b] Kansas (Jr.)
1 14 Anthony RandolphPF United Statesb[›]Golden State Warriors LSU (Fr.)
1 15 Robin Lopez C United States Phoenix Suns (from Atlanta)[n] Stanford (So.)
1 16 Marreese SpeightsPF United States Philadelphia 76ers Florida (So.)
1 17 Roy Hibbert+ C United StatesJamaicac[›]Toronto Raptors (traded to Indiana)[c] Georgetown (Sr.)
1 18 JaVale McGee C United States Washington Wizards Nevada (So.)
1 19 J. J. Hickson PF United States Cleveland Cavaliers NC State (Fr.)
1 20 Alexis Ajinça C France Charlotte Bobcats (from Denver)[o] Hyères-Toulon (France) 1988"could've been had at 10" is pure speculation. the knicks had hired d'antoni, and d'antoni teams have zero need for a plodding, passing-averse, soft big man. the knicks had no need for lopez based on their plan to run a SSOL offense. now, if you want to insist that the only way to draft is always based on "the best player available" you may have a point-- one that i happen to disagree with-- but then i would also argue, and back up with statistics and my own eye test, that they are very close in talent.