Knicks · The Case for Porzingis. (page 3)

Ill say this again about Porzinigs

I don't like his ectomorphic body type. I think in combination of being a run/jump athlete with his unusually long and brittle looking limbs--he looks primed to be an athlete who will deal with injury problems.(In Major League baseball scouts tend to keep away from pitchers with normal height and slight builds in fear of them hurting themselves--apologies to Ron Guidry) So you're a team who is willing to take a pick that will result in a player who you KNOW doubt will have to A. Wait on for 2-3 years and B. Take a player who is a walking injury risk

Im sorry to Fran Fischilla or anyone else out there who likes Porzinighis. On first look you are somewhat taken by his incredible combination of length and athleticism--its a rare bird and he can shoot. BUT he will shy away from NBA contact for the foreseeable future--he doesnt have the nuances of the game down like a Kaminsky--and he could probably give Kaminsky a helluva 1-1 battle--but basketball is 5-5 and its physical and whether right or wrong--I say steer clear of this guy too many what if's. He cannot handle the ball he has a tweener awkwardness--he's an opportunistic secondary player in Europe. No fans will get this pick and it has ridicule written all over it. Steer clear.

BRIGGS wrote:Ill say this again about Porzinigs

I don't like his ectomorphic body type. I think in combination of being a run/jump athlete with his unusually long and brittle looking limbs--he looks primed to be an athlete who will deal with injury problems.(In Major League baseball scouts tend to keep away from pitchers with normal height and slight builds in fear of them hurting themselves--apologies to Ron Guidry) So you're a team who is willing to take a pick that will result in a player who you KNOW doubt will have to A. Wait on for 2-3 years and B. Take a player who is a walking injury risk

Im sorry to Fran Fischilla or anyone else out there who likes Porzinighis. On first look you are somewhat taken by his incredible combination of length and athleticism--its a rare bird and he can shoot. BUT he will shy away from NBA contact for the foreseeable future--he doesnt have the nuances of the game down like a Kaminsky--and he could probably give Kaminsky a helluva 1-1 battle--but basketball is 5-5 and its physical and whether right or wrong--I say steer clear of this guy too many what if's. He cannot handle the ball he has a tweener awkwardness--he's an opportunistic secondary player in Europe. No fans will get this pick and it has ridicule written all over it. Steer clear.

I'm a fan of Kaminsky, who can do a lot of things. I would have no issue with him at #4 if he showed up well in our workout.

Wonder if he looked a lot like Porzingis when he came up as a freshman, though? I know he didn't have the same ability when he came up as a freshman that Porzingis is showing against superior European competition.

Not sure about Porzingis' injury potential or history, but he does look thin, although he's gained some bulk since 2 years ago. A lot of guys getting injuries these days, Briggs- many are superior athletes who test the limits a body can endure given the laws of physics. Have not heard any stories about tendonitis being an issue, which is something you would expect giving his length and youth.

Leverage and center of gravity can also negate pure strength, especially if the athlete knows how to gain position. In the sports I played in during HS and college my competitive strength was always greater than the actual numbers I could put up when weight lifting- and this had to do with balance, position, and leverage.

If you watch Porzingis he's not afraid to battle in the post, and he shows a decent center of gravity when positioning himself. He is not a bad ball handler, either, but I'm not sure you want a big man doing too much ball handling, anyway. There are videos of him at 16 or 17 taking it to the basket off his dribble. The other thing that just might make him special is his ability to defend at multiple positions. Maybe he ends up being a WCS type defender with offensive ability, for all we know.

Keep an open mind. Who knows what will come out when these guys are worked out- many might change their minds, including myself.

BRIGGS wrote:Ill say this again about Porzinigs

I don't like his ectomorphic body type. I think in combination of being a run/jump athlete with his unusually long and brittle looking limbs--he looks primed to be an athlete who will deal with injury problems.(In Major League baseball scouts tend to keep away from pitchers with normal height and slight builds in fear of them hurting themselves--apologies to Ron Guidry) So you're a team who is willing to take a pick that will result in a player who you KNOW doubt will have to A. Wait on for 2-3 years and B. Take a player who is a walking injury risk

Im sorry to Fran Fischilla or anyone else out there who likes Porzinighis. On first look you are somewhat taken by his incredible combination of length and athleticism--its a rare bird and he can shoot. BUT he will shy away from NBA contact for the foreseeable future--he doesnt have the nuances of the game down like a Kaminsky--and he could probably give Kaminsky a helluva 1-1 battle--but basketball is 5-5 and its physical and whether right or wrong--I say steer clear of this guy too many what if's. He cannot handle the ball he has a tweener awkwardness--he's an opportunistic secondary player in Europe. No fans will get this pick and it has ridicule written all over it. Steer clear.

I'm so glad that you're just a guy that sits and writes on message boards ALL DAY/NIGHT and not a real GM. Actually I'd love it if you were a GM in our division cause that would help the Knicks. You talk in facts about things that you don't even have facts about but I understand what kind of person you are and I can just laugh off most of the nonsense you say here. First let me say that I also don't think Phil will draft Porzingis because he needs time to put some weight on an to make the typical adjustment that the euro players have to make going into the NBA. I think he could give us minutes right away but not many and obviously he can't be a instant starter. I think the pick will be between two players or it will be traded with the two players being the obvious two of E.Mudiay and J.Winslow with a small chance of it being WCS. My biggest worry with them trading the pick would be them getting good enough value in return because Phil has made himself look horrible at trading with the couple of trades he's already made.

WaltLongmire wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Ill say this again about Porzinigs

I don't like his ectomorphic body type. I think in combination of being a run/jump athlete with his unusually long and brittle looking limbs--he looks primed to be an athlete who will deal with injury problems.(In Major League baseball scouts tend to keep away from pitchers with normal height and slight builds in fear of them hurting themselves--apologies to Ron Guidry) So you're a team who is willing to take a pick that will result in a player who you KNOW doubt will have to A. Wait on for 2-3 years and B. Take a player who is a walking injury risk

Im sorry to Fran Fischilla or anyone else out there who likes Porzinighis. On first look you are somewhat taken by his incredible combination of length and athleticism--its a rare bird and he can shoot. BUT he will shy away from NBA contact for the foreseeable future--he doesnt have the nuances of the game down like a Kaminsky--and he could probably give Kaminsky a helluva 1-1 battle--but basketball is 5-5 and its physical and whether right or wrong--I say steer clear of this guy too many what if's. He cannot handle the ball he has a tweener awkwardness--he's an opportunistic secondary player in Europe. No fans will get this pick and it has ridicule written all over it. Steer clear.

I'm a fan of Kaminsky, who can do a lot of things. I would have no issue with him at #4 if he showed up well in our workout.

Wonder if he looked a lot like Porzingis when he came up as a freshman, though? I know he didn't have the same ability when he came up as a freeman that Porzingis is showing against superior European competition.

Not sure about Porzingis' injury potential or history, but he does look thin, although he's gained some bulk since 2 years ago. A lot of guys getting injuries these days, Briggs- many are superior athletes who test the limits a body can endure given the laws of physics. Have not heard any stories about tendonitis being an issue, which is something you would expect giving his length and youth.

Leverage and center of gravity can also negate pure strength, especially if the athlete knows how to gain position. In the sports I played in during HS and college my competitive strength was always greater than the actual numbers I could put up when weight lifting- and this had to do with balance, position, and leverage.

If you watch Porzingis he's not afraid to battle in the post, and he shows a decent center of gravity when positioning himself. He is not a bad ball handler, either, but I'm not sure you want a big man doing too much ball handling, anyway. There are videos of him at 16 or 17 taking it to the basket off his dribble. The other thing that just might make him special is his ability to defend at multiple positions. Maybe he ends up being a WCS type defender with offensive ability, for all we know.

Keep an open mind. Who knows what will come out when these guys are worked out- many might change their minds, including myself.

You would be alright with us drafting Kaminsky at #4?? Wow, that would make me crazy if we drafted him that high. I like him and wouldn't mind us drafting him if we traded down some but to spend out top 4 Pick on a guy that has no defense especially for the NBA would be crazy to me.

newyorker4ever wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Ill say this again about Porzinigs

I don't like his ectomorphic body type. I think in combination of being a run/jump athlete with his unusually long and brittle looking limbs--he looks primed to be an athlete who will deal with injury problems.(In Major League baseball scouts tend to keep away from pitchers with normal height and slight builds in fear of them hurting themselves--apologies to Ron Guidry) So you're a team who is willing to take a pick that will result in a player who you KNOW doubt will have to A. Wait on for 2-3 years and B. Take a player who is a walking injury risk

Im sorry to Fran Fischilla or anyone else out there who likes Porzinighis. On first look you are somewhat taken by his incredible combination of length and athleticism--its a rare bird and he can shoot. BUT he will shy away from NBA contact for the foreseeable future--he doesnt have the nuances of the game down like a Kaminsky--and he could probably give Kaminsky a helluva 1-1 battle--but basketball is 5-5 and its physical and whether right or wrong--I say steer clear of this guy too many what if's. He cannot handle the ball he has a tweener awkwardness--he's an opportunistic secondary player in Europe. No fans will get this pick and it has ridicule written all over it. Steer clear.

I'm a fan of Kaminsky, who can do a lot of things. I would have no issue with him at #4 if he showed up well in our workout.

Wonder if he looked a lot like Porzingis when he came up as a freshman, though? I know he didn't have the same ability when he came up as a freeman that Porzingis is showing against superior European competition.

Not sure about Porzingis' injury potential or history, but he does look thin, although he's gained some bulk since 2 years ago. A lot of guys getting injuries these days, Briggs- many are superior athletes who test the limits a body can endure given the laws of physics. Have not heard any stories about tendonitis being an issue, which is something you would expect giving his length and youth.

Leverage and center of gravity can also negate pure strength, especially if the athlete knows how to gain position. In the sports I played in during HS and college my competitive strength was always greater than the actual numbers I could put up when weight lifting- and this had to do with balance, position, and leverage.

If you watch Porzingis he's not afraid to battle in the post, and he shows a decent center of gravity when positioning himself. He is not a bad ball handler, either, but I'm not sure you want a big man doing too much ball handling, anyway. There are videos of him at 16 or 17 taking it to the basket off his dribble. The other thing that just might make him special is his ability to defend at multiple positions. Maybe he ends up being a WCS type defender with offensive ability, for all we know.

Keep an open mind. Who knows what will come out when these guys are worked out- many might change their minds, including myself.

You would be alright with us drafting Kaminsky at #4?? Wow, that would make me crazy if we drafted him that high. I like him and wouldn't mind us drafting him if we traded down some but to spend out top 4 Pick on a guy that has no defense especially for the NBA would be crazy to me.

Please note that I'm always mentioning the workouts when I talk about players now. I have to think that anyone we look at will be put through the proper paces so we can get a true picture of how good they are, what they need to improve on, and whether the deficiencies they now have can be improved upon.

With that said, Kaminsky had as much success in college as any coming out (of course he stayed in for 4 years), AND he has shown that he can improve his game over time.

Kaminsky has a proven record in showing that he can grow and make changes as a player, and I think he has a little more upside left than people think.

Would I rather have Towns of OK4 over him…yup, but it is doubtful that we have a chance to pick them, and lets face it, Kaminsky went toe to toe with them and came away standing tall. I think he showed that his so-called defensive deficiencies are a bit overblown. I had doubts about his mobility, but I think came out looking pretty good after watching him close out his season in the NCAA finals.

Porzingis needs to gain weight, but so does Kaminsky. I have no idea what position Frank will play, inly that it will take a few years for him to reach it. That's the same scenario where looking at Pporzingis. At least we know Porzingis gets steals and blocks at a high level. I'm not sure Frank will ever come close to developing the defensive tools Porzingis already has. This idea that Porzingis is going to take a few years to develop, but Mudiay or Russell is going to help us immediately is off base. Look at how long it took Steph Curry and John Wall to develop into players capable of leading a contending team. We're talking two to three years, right? There are only two players ready to be immediate contributors to an NBA team and even those guys have weaknesses that need to be addressed. Anyone who thinks we will draft a guy at 4 who will be immediate contributor at the start of next season needs to lower their expectations.

BigDaddyG wrote:Porzingis needs to gain weight, but so does Kaminsky. I have no idea what position Frank will play, inly that it will take a few years for him to reach it. That's the same scenario where looking at Pporzingis. At least we know Porzingis gets steals and blocks at a high level. I'm not sure Frank will ever come close to developing the defensive tools Porzingis already has. This idea that Porzingis is going to take a few years to develop, but Mudiay or Russell is going to help us immediately is off base. Look at how long it took Steph Curry and John Wall to develop into players capable of leading a contending team. We're talking two to three years, right? There are only two players ready to be immediate contributors to an NBA team and even those guys have weaknesses that need to be addressed. Anyone who thinks we will draft a guy at 4 who will be immediate contributor at the start of next season needs to lower their expectations.

I think Kaminsky at face 4 and 22 years old is about as ready as hes going to get for a rookie. Mudiay is more ready to play then Russell. He could sit behind Schveyd for a year or two.

BRIGGS wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:Porzingis needs to gain weight, but so does Kaminsky. I have no idea what position Frank will play, inly that it will take a few years for him to reach it. That's the same scenario where looking at Pporzingis. At least we know Porzingis gets steals and blocks at a high level. I'm not sure Frank will ever come close to developing the defensive tools Porzingis already has. This idea that Porzingis is going to take a few years to develop, but Mudiay or Russell is going to help us immediately is off base. Look at how long it took Steph Curry and John Wall to develop into players capable of leading a contending team. We're talking two to three years, right? There are only two players ready to be immediate contributors to an NBA team and even those guys have weaknesses that need to be addressed. Anyone who thinks we will draft a guy at 4 who will be immediate contributor at the start of next season needs to lower their expectations.

I think Kaminsky at face 4 and 22 years old is about as ready as hes going to get for a rookie. Mudiay is more ready to play then Russell. He could sit behind Schveyd for a year or two.

Frank is going to have to build his body a little bit more if he wants to be more than a bench or situational player. Even Laetner and Gugliota were pushing 240 when they were weighed at the combine. I agree that Mudiay may be a bit more prepared than Russell from day one because if his defensive tools.

what black players do people compare him to?

anrst wrote:what black players do people compare him to?

I was gonna make a Kevin Willis comparison because of the alligator arms, but Willis was jacked. Skinny Terry Mills?

BigDaddyG wrote:I'm not sure if the Knicks fans have the patience for us to draft a Euro. Gallo and Mozgov aren't enough to blot out the Fredrik Weiss draft from our collective memories.

Or Lampe!

smackeddog wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:I'm not sure if the Knicks fans have the patience for us to draft a Euro. Gallo and Mozgov aren't enough to blot out the Fredrik Weiss draft from our collective memories.

Or Lampe!

Does Porzingis like popcorn too? Posted about him a few months ago. I liked what I saw from the game clips. Motor wise he reminds me of AK-47.

anrst wrote:what black players do people compare him to?

what white players do they compare mudiay to?

anrst wrote:what black players do people compare him to?

I can think of a Chinese player Yi Jianlin. If we wnat Porzingis maybe we should call up Yi.

BRIGGS wrote:

anrst wrote:what black players do people compare him to?

I can think of a Chinese player Yi Jianlin. If we wnat Porzingis maybe we should call up Yi.

Porzingis can already shoot at a higher level. Look how skinny this guy was when he came into the league. His body type didn't stop him from performing.

Or how about this guy?

BigDaddyG wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

anrst wrote:what black players do people compare him to?

I can think of a Chinese player Yi Jianlin. If we wnat Porzingis maybe we should call up Yi.

Porzingis can already shoot at a higher level. Look how skinny this guy was when he came into the league. His body type didn't stop him from performing.

Or how about this guy?

So that's Garnett as a rookie?

Check out this shot of Garnett:

I'll say it again- if you have the length, some toughness, and an understanding about how to use your body the right way, you can compensate for a lack of bulk muscle and weight lifting strength.

Here is another guy folks might remember-

Not saying that Porzingis will be like any of these guys, but I think Phil will give him a good look, and if he turns out to be the best guy he sees, I would hope that he considers him.

WaltLongmire wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

anrst wrote:what black players do people compare him to?

I can think of a Chinese player Yi Jianlin. If we wnat Porzingis maybe we should call up Yi.

Porzingis can already shoot at a higher level. Look how skinny this guy was when he came into the league. His body type didn't stop him from performing.

Or how about this guy?

So that's Garnett as a rookie?

Check out this shot of Garnett:

I'll say it again- if you have the length, some toughness, and an understanding about how to use your body the right way, you can compensate for a lack of bulk muscle and weight lifting strength.

Here is another guy folks might remember-

Not saying that Porzingis will be like any of these guys, but I think Phil will give him a good look, and if he turns out to be the best guy he sees, I would hope that he considers him.

Ill give Phil the benefit of the doubt here. If he chooses Porzinigis and Im sure the MDs will look at his growth plates and everything else--of course taking a 7-1/7-2 guy could be very tempting. The last time we past on a 7-2 his name was Gobert. If Phil feels Porzinigis truly is the smartest pick since he will get to see him live--as a fan I will have his back on that one.

As a fan we have video ans stats on Porzinigis. On first look he has impressive run/jump/athleticism in combination with immense length--he probably has a 7-6 wingspan with a 7-1 7-2 height. But is the guy a tweener really stuck between 5-4 and even 3. Gobert knows what he is. I dont even care if we select Porzinigis and he sits in the D league getting better--IF Phil can see where this guy can be a dominant 7-2 230-240 pound C/PF maybe a combination of Rik Smits meets KG then we have a really nice piece. I have a risk reward mentality if he shows promise if he passes multiple MD tests if he shows toughness and willingness to NOT sit 25 feet from the hoop like Yi did than maybe he can be the guy. But I hope Phil takes a hard look back at the traits of Yi Jianlin because they seem similar.

His stats this year were very good he played 21 minutes and these are his 36 minute breakdown 18.5 points 7.7 rebounds 2 blocks 1.5 steals (but less than 1 assit)

2014-15 Liga ACB, Eurocup 49 1052 6.9 14.0 .498 1.4 3.8 .366 5.5 10.1 .547 3.1 4.1 .752 2.3 5.4 7.7 0.9 1.5 1.8 2.3 4.3 18.4

Also drafting Porzingis would give us a shotblocking 4 if we got Monroe and would make us go from one of the smallest teams--to one of the biggets teams.

Lets say he does not start this year--but well put him in anyway.

IF we get Monroe??

C-Monroe 6-11

PF Porzingis 7-2

F Antony 6-8

G Free agent or Galloway?

G Shveyd?

^^ I was surprised when Yi Jianlin was taken where he was. Maybe some kind of Yao Ming effect?

I would like to see him matched against some smaller quicker players, but also have Porsingis work out with some bruisers when he comes in, maybe even guys who are secretly told to rough-house and intimidate him if they can.

Phil is getting the big money to build a winning team, and talent evaluation is THE most important thing for him to excel in at this point.

Ultimately, I just want a player who we can build with, whoever that may be. Just have to trust our talent evaluators.

This would be a lot easier if we were at #1 or #2, but it has been noted before that picking 3 or 4 might be the toughest place to make your choice in this draft.

Nothing to do but wait and listen for the workout rumors and reports that will be coming out at some point.

From Scott Howard-Cooper of NBA.com:

Kristaps Porzingis, a smooth-shooting power forward from Latvia, has emerged as a serious threat to break into the top three of the June 25 draft in a potential serious shakeup to the long-held perception the top four spots are set, with some executives at the pre-draft combine here saying Porzingis could go second.

“He could go two,” one general manager said. “He’s that good. Nobody says anything bad about him.”

Said the head of basketball operations for another team: “I think he’s a lock for the top five and I wouldn’t be surprised to see him go as high as top three. He’s good. We all like to do our comparables. He’s like Dirk Nowitzki or Pau Gasol….. I’d take him ahead of (Jahlil) Okafor.”

Porzingis is 7’1″, and averaged 10.7 points, 4.4 rebounds and 1.1 blocked shots in international play this past season, while knocking down 37.9 percent of his shots from three-point distance.

WaltLongmire wrote:^^ I was surprised when Yi Jianlin was taken where he was. Maybe some kind of Yao Ming effect?

I would like to see him matched against some smaller quicker players, but also have Porsingis work out with some bruisers when he comes in, maybe even guys who are secretly told to rough-house and intimidate him if they can.

Phil is getting the big money to build a winning team, and talent evaluation is THE most important thing for him to excel in at this point.

Ultimately, I just want a player who we can build with, whoever that may be. Just have to trust our talent evaluators.

This would be a lot easier if we were at #1 or #2, but it has been noted before that picking 3 or 4 might be the toughest place to make your choice in this draft.

Nothing to do but wait and listen for the workout rumors and reports that will be coming out at some point.

I guess so.
My red flags are his body type--ectomorphic meaning I don't think he can put on too much more quality weight.(and I think he weighs only around 200 pounds)
He has a tweener awkwardness about him. He doesnt handle or pass the ball. So while he has a nice jumpshot I think his nuances of the game are 1/2 full at best.
Propensity of injury for that body type. Ectomorphic body types tend to injure easily. His bones are simply smaller and how will that effect his muscle joint cartilage etc from constant pounding.

Foreign born and young. Not a killer but its an issue.

Is he going to sit out on the NBA 3 point line like Bargnani too much?

Can he defend guys who are 240-260 in the block? Im not buying that right now.

Also notice his FT attempts 2.5 for 21 minutes. That is super low for a 7-1 guy--to me that says he doesnt like contact. Seems like a guy who"settles" for plays instead of being aggressive making them.

As a stretch 4 you need to be able to move the ball in the NBA--he hasnt shown that ability in his league--so the mental nuance would have to be trained in if it can be.

Hes going to need multiple MD work ups. If the MDs say he going to be 7-2 230/240 at some point and that his body will be able to handle that weight--thats one things. If the MDs believe that he will stay 200-210 I may pass on that.