crzymdups wrote:Look at the way the teams like Washington, Golden State, Atlanta, Houston are built - they stretch the floor with shooters, but they still have some big loads in the paint. Gortat, Nene on WAS. Bogut on GSW, Draymond Green can play the five, but is not someone you can replicate, Houston has Dwight, Atlanta has Horford. These stretch the floor teams still have an anchor in the middle. Ironically, it seems like a lot of them are mimicking what the Knicks did with Tyson, they just have more capable lead guards.Porzingis doesn't fit that model. I'm not sure where he fits. I think drafting him would be a disaster.
Porzingis will play the 4 in the NBA not the 5 unless down the raod he puts enough weight on which with him being so young as of now that i'm sure he's still growing.
newyorker4ever wrote:crzymdups wrote:Look at the way the teams like Washington, Golden State, Atlanta, Houston are built - they stretch the floor with shooters, but they still have some big loads in the paint. Gortat, Nene on WAS. Bogut on GSW, Draymond Green can play the five, but is not someone you can replicate, Houston has Dwight, Atlanta has Horford. These stretch the floor teams still have an anchor in the middle. Ironically, it seems like a lot of them are mimicking what the Knicks did with Tyson, they just have more capable lead guards.Porzingis doesn't fit that model. I'm not sure where he fits. I think drafting him would be a disaster.
Porzingis will play the 4 in the NBA not the 5 unless down the raod he puts enough weight on which with him being so young as of now that i'm sure he's still growing.
How many 7'2" 4s have you seen in the league? You're gonna have Porzingis running around trying to cover Kevin Love, Zach Randolph, Blake Griffin, Anthony Davis, Draymond Green, etc?
Prozingis can use extension length and mobility to guard 2-3-4-5. Think about his extension running out on shooters. Knicks made poor choice on the last 7-2 in Hobart-- many people including myself said uncoordinated will suck. I love Frank Kaminsky and he's an option but I don't want to make the wrong choice twice. Also I'm be t any one here Fuzaro will be an excellent man of and w could grab him at 27. There many guard choices only 1 Porzingis
N
newyorker4ever wrote:crzymdups wrote:Look at the way the teams like Washington, Golden State, Atlanta, Houston are built - they stretch the floor with shooters, but they still have some big loads in the paint. Gortat, Nene on WAS. Bogut on GSW, Draymond Green can play the five, but is not someone you can replicate, Houston has Dwight, Atlanta has Horford. These stretch the floor teams still have an anchor in the middle. Ironically, it seems like a lot of them are mimicking what the Knicks did with Tyson, they just have more capable lead guards.Porzingis doesn't fit that model. I'm not sure where he fits. I think drafting him would be a disaster.
Porzingis will play the 4 in the NBA not the 5 unless down the raod he puts enough weight on which with him being so young as of now that i'm sure he's still growing.
Plus, he's already a sold three point shooter. He can help stretch the floor on offense and provide weak side support on defense for whoever we get to man the post.
OK. I am on the Porzingis bandwagon now.
People should check this kids release. It's quick and smooth. He's not aiming his shots awkwardly like some big kids. He strokes it. Heck he should be a great fit in the Triangle in the Pau role. Bargs looked good in that role last year and this kid has the makings of that kind of talent. Running the floor, Finishing at the rim and stroking shots from the perimeter. He may not yet be a physical big but his skills should still allow him to have a role in the NBA.
Think about how John Henson, 220 lbs and Giannis Antetokounmpo, 217 lbs have been able to play in this league. If they can do it I see no reason why Kris P can't do it.
nixluva wrote:People should check this kids release. It's quick and smooth. He's not aiming his shots awkwardly like some big kids. He strokes it. Heck he should be a great fit in the Triangle in the Pau role. Bargs looked good in that role last year and this kid has the makings of that kind of talent. Running the floor, Finishing at the rim and stroking shots from the perimeter. He may not yet be a physical big but his skills should still allow him to have a role in the NBA.Think about how John Henson, 220 lbs and Giannis Antetokounmpo, 217 lbs have been able to play in this league. If they can do it I see no reason why Kris P can't do it.
Well, I hope Philadelphia agrees with you.
crzymdups wrote:nixluva wrote:People should check this kids release. It's quick and smooth. He's not aiming his shots awkwardly like some big kids. He strokes it. Heck he should be a great fit in the Triangle in the Pau role. Bargs looked good in that role last year and this kid has the makings of that kind of talent. Running the floor, Finishing at the rim and stroking shots from the perimeter. He may not yet be a physical big but his skills should still allow him to have a role in the NBA.Think about how John Henson, 220 lbs and Giannis Antetokounmpo, 217 lbs have been able to play in this league. If they can do it I see no reason why Kris P can't do it.
Well, I hope Philadelphia agrees with you.
Good one! 
. I don't see Philly going for Kris but you never know. Hinkie is likely to do anything. He seems like he's always trying to show how smart he is.
the keys for Porzingis to having maximum success.
It's still very hard for me to discern the positive/ negative differences between Kaminsky and Kris P and how each player +- will relate to the best basketball player.
For instance Porzingis can shoot the ball well while I believe Kaminsky is a Great shooter
Kaminsky has a much more fluid feel for the game in terms of all the basic skills
porzingis has physical attributes Kaminsky will never have notably more athleticsm and incredible extension.Porzingis extension allows him to play essentially over the square. He's able to block/ alter and finish shots Kaminsky can only dream of.
Kaminsky game is polished. We know what he is he knows what he is and he has all the skills. this is an under rated attribute
Porzingis game is not refined like that and we have to say that at 19 few games are.
From watching Porzingis it will be important to make sure 90% of his game is played within the 3 point line. There are risks while bargani and Porzingis are different they could end up the same IF the team he is taken by allows this'd. The avenues that will make Porzingis great is simple you play efficiently. You use your length and extension to make multiple high % plays on both ends and you make this a staple. You use the 3 as augmentation to the rest of your game. People tend to think Dirk was a great 3 point shooter but he wasn't and dint shoot them in great volume either. So for me with Porzingis it would be mid range to rim with a little 3 added in. This will be critical and can give Porzingis an opportunity to play like a combination of kg and dirk. Kaminsky can simply take his great fundamentals and just keep improving. I think Kaminsky is the safe bet Porzingis has a higher potential plateau as a player
I think Kris would benefit from the Triangle. He would learn how to score from everywhere in the flow of the offense. Low and Mid Post as well as Give n Go and high PnR. Our bigs stay involved and touch the ball on every possession. Kris would play the Pau role in the offense which he seems skilled enough to do.
Porzingis depends on your individual level of risk aversion. He's tall and mobile with a good shooting touch, so there is a chance he could be great. I will bet however that he will be able to be effectively guarded by the 6'8 to 6'10 NBA prototype given his average 1st step/handle/post agility. A lot depends on how his body develops along the strength/quickness tradeoff but, playing the percentages, I pass on Porzingis at #4 without too much hesitation.
codeunknown wrote:Porzingis depends on your individual level of risk aversion. He's tall and mobile with a good shooting touch, so there is a chance he could be great. I will bet however that he will be able to be effectively guarded by the 6'8 to 6'10 NBA prototype given his average 1st step/handle/post agility. A lot depends on how his body develops along the strength/quickness tradeoff but, playing the percentages, I pass on Porzingis at #4 without too much hesitation.
I don't see Kris as being as much of risk as Darko and some of the Euros who have been drafted. Kris get major minutes while those other guys usually rode the benches on their club team. Workouts are going to play a huge role here, but I can honestly say that Porzingis displayed above average ball handling and agility in his clips. You don't need super human explosiveness when you can get to the rim in a step. The only real question is his body.
nixluva wrote:crzymdups wrote:nixluva wrote:People should check this kids release. It's quick and smooth. He's not aiming his shots awkwardly like some big kids. He strokes it. Heck he should be a great fit in the Triangle in the Pau role. Bargs looked good in that role last year and this kid has the makings of that kind of talent. Running the floor, Finishing at the rim and stroking shots from the perimeter. He may not yet be a physical big but his skills should still allow him to have a role in the NBA.Think about how John Henson, 220 lbs and Giannis Antetokounmpo, 217 lbs have been able to play in this league. If they can do it I see no reason why Kris P can't do it.
Well, I hope Philadelphia agrees with you.
Good one! . I don't see Philly going for Kris but you never know. Hinkie is likely to do anything. He seems like he's always trying to show how smart he is.
Makes no sense if Hinkie does not take Russell or Mudiay given the trade they made. The rumor from last year was that Atlanta and Philly wanted Porzingis to stay in the draft, so Hinkie obviously knows about him.(Philly had the 3rd and 10th picks, and Atlanta was at 15.)But after the trade I find it hard to believe that they won't go with one of the two guards.
I think we are all starting to realize that some of the guys we thought would be selected at a certain spot might fall to us, and that even if they don't we can still get an excellent prospect.
Should be an interesting draft night.
BigDaddyG wrote:codeunknown wrote:Porzingis depends on your individual level of risk aversion. He's tall and mobile with a good shooting touch, so there is a chance he could be great. I will bet however that he will be able to be effectively guarded by the 6'8 to 6'10 NBA prototype given his average 1st step/handle/post agility. A lot depends on how his body develops along the strength/quickness tradeoff but, playing the percentages, I pass on Porzingis at #4 without too much hesitation.
I don't see Kris as being as much of risk as Darko and some of the Euros who have been drafted. Kris get major minutes while those other guys usually rode the benches on their club team. Workouts are going to play a huge role here, but I can honestly say that Porzingis displayed above average ball handling and agility in his clips. You don't need super human explosiveness when you can get to the rim in a step. The only real question is his body.
Don't agree with you on the ball handling or agility with respect to the defense he will face at the 4 in the NBA. Also don't agree with you that he'll be getting to the rim in 1 step, unless its through a defender. He has a chance to be net positive if his body allows him to defend and rebound at a passable level. I'm not taking the chance, I'll pass.
codeunknown wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:codeunknown wrote:Porzingis depends on your individual level of risk aversion. He's tall and mobile with a good shooting touch, so there is a chance he could be great. I will bet however that he will be able to be effectively guarded by the 6'8 to 6'10 NBA prototype given his average 1st step/handle/post agility. A lot depends on how his body develops along the strength/quickness tradeoff but, playing the percentages, I pass on Porzingis at #4 without too much hesitation.
I don't see Kris as being as much of risk as Darko and some of the Euros who have been drafted. Kris get major minutes while those other guys usually rode the benches on their club team. Workouts are going to play a huge role here, but I can honestly say that Porzingis displayed above average ball handling and agility in his clips. You don't need super human explosiveness when you can get to the rim in a step. The only real question is his body.
Don't agree with you on the ball handling or agility with respect to the defense he will face at the 4 in the NBA. Also don't agree with you that he'll be getting to the rim in 1 step, unless its through a defender. He has a chance to be net positive if his body allows him to defend and rebound at a passable level. I'm not taking the chance, I'll pass.
You gotta remember that he is a four--with three-point range. Most of his drives will be straight line to the hoop. Pump fake and go. He's not Lebron. You're not going to ask him to run the offense. His dribbling is in line with what Andrei Kirilenko could do coming into the league.
BRIGGS wrote:the keys for Porzingis to having maximum success.It's still very hard for me to discern the positive/ negative differences between Kaminsky and Kris P and how each player +- will relate to the best basketball player.
For instance Porzingis can shoot the ball well while I believe Kaminsky is a Great shooter
Kaminsky has a much more fluid feel for the game in terms of all the basic skills
porzingis has physical attributes Kaminsky will never have notably more athleticsm and incredible extension.Porzingis extension allows him to play essentially over the square. He's able to block/ alter and finish shots Kaminsky can only dream of.
Kaminsky game is polished. We know what he is he knows what he is and he has all the skills. this is an under rated attribute
Porzingis game is not refined like that and we have to say that at 19 few games are.
From watching Porzingis it will be important to make sure 90% of his game is played within the 3 point line. There are risks while bargani and Porzingis are different they could end up the same IF the team he is taken by allows this'd. The avenues that will make Porzingis great is simple you play efficiently. You use your length and extension to make multiple high % plays on both ends and you make this a staple. You use the 3 as augmentation to the rest of your game. People tend to think Dirk was a great 3 point shooter but he wasn't and dint shoot them in great volume either. So for me with Porzingis it would be mid range to rim with a little 3 added in. This will be critical and can give Porzingis an opportunity to play like a combination of kg and dirk. Kaminsky can simply take his great fundamentals and just keep improving. I think Kaminsky is the safe bet Porzingis has a higher potential plateau as a player
I would agree with this, too.
Do you believe the workouts we will put these guys through can make you feel differently about this?
BigDaddyG wrote:codeunknown wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:codeunknown wrote:Porzingis depends on your individual level of risk aversion. He's tall and mobile with a good shooting touch, so there is a chance he could be great. I will bet however that he will be able to be effectively guarded by the 6'8 to 6'10 NBA prototype given his average 1st step/handle/post agility. A lot depends on how his body develops along the strength/quickness tradeoff but, playing the percentages, I pass on Porzingis at #4 without too much hesitation.
I don't see Kris as being as much of risk as Darko and some of the Euros who have been drafted. Kris get major minutes while those other guys usually rode the benches on their club team. Workouts are going to play a huge role here, but I can honestly say that Porzingis displayed above average ball handling and agility in his clips. You don't need super human explosiveness when you can get to the rim in a step. The only real question is his body.
Don't agree with you on the ball handling or agility with respect to the defense he will face at the 4 in the NBA. Also don't agree with you that he'll be getting to the rim in 1 step, unless its through a defender. He has a chance to be net positive if his body allows him to defend and rebound at a passable level. I'm not taking the chance, I'll pass.
You gotta remember that he is a four--with three-point range. Most of his drives will be straight line to the hoop. Pump fake and go. He's not Lebron. You're not going to ask him to run the offense. His dribbling is in line with what Andrei Kirilenko could do coming into the league.
Again it depends on what you expect from the #4 pick in terms of the probability distribution of different levels of success. I agree that he can play a secondary role in the offense as the recipient of passes from a primary offensive threat. But in that case, you need to be at least average defensively and rebounding-wise in order to make a positive contribution. I don't like the odds with him.
BigDaddyG wrote:codeunknown wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:codeunknown wrote:Porzingis depends on your individual level of risk aversion. He's tall and mobile with a good shooting touch, so there is a chance he could be great. I will bet however that he will be able to be effectively guarded by the 6'8 to 6'10 NBA prototype given his average 1st step/handle/post agility. A lot depends on how his body develops along the strength/quickness tradeoff but, playing the percentages, I pass on Porzingis at #4 without too much hesitation.
I don't see Kris as being as much of risk as Darko and some of the Euros who have been drafted. Kris get major minutes while those other guys usually rode the benches on their club team. Workouts are going to play a huge role here, but I can honestly say that Porzingis displayed above average ball handling and agility in his clips. You don't need super human explosiveness when you can get to the rim in a step. The only real question is his body.
Don't agree with you on the ball handling or agility with respect to the defense he will face at the 4 in the NBA. Also don't agree with you that he'll be getting to the rim in 1 step, unless its through a defender. He has a chance to be net positive if his body allows him to defend and rebound at a passable level. I'm not taking the chance, I'll pass.
You gotta remember that he is a four--with three-point range. Most of his drives will be straight line to the hoop. Pump fake and go. He's not Lebron. You're not going to ask him to run the offense. His dribbling is in line with what Andrei Kirilenko could do coming into the league.
Always hate to remind folks about this- how do his skills/abilities fit into our offense?
I would not have started this thread if I was not interested and intrigued by this guy, but Phil's big me are usually decent passers, and Porzingis has not yet been in a situation where he was required to be a very good passer.
While he seems to have the potential to be a good stretch 4, we will probably not ask him to do that kind of thing in our offense/
Is he coachable enough to learn and embrace the triangle?
WaltLongmire wrote:BRIGGS wrote:the keys for Porzingis to having maximum success.It's still very hard for me to discern the positive/ negative differences between Kaminsky and Kris P and how each player +- will relate to the best basketball player.
For instance Porzingis can shoot the ball well while I believe Kaminsky is a Great shooter
Kaminsky has a much more fluid feel for the game in terms of all the basic skills
porzingis has physical attributes Kaminsky will never have notably more athleticsm and incredible extension.Porzingis extension allows him to play essentially over the square. He's able to block/ alter and finish shots Kaminsky can only dream of.
Kaminsky game is polished. We know what he is he knows what he is and he has all the skills. this is an under rated attribute
Porzingis game is not refined like that and we have to say that at 19 few games are.
From watching Porzingis it will be important to make sure 90% of his game is played within the 3 point line. There are risks while bargani and Porzingis are different they could end up the same IF the team he is taken by allows this'd. The avenues that will make Porzingis great is simple you play efficiently. You use your length and extension to make multiple high % plays on both ends and you make this a staple. You use the 3 as augmentation to the rest of your game. People tend to think Dirk was a great 3 point shooter but he wasn't and dint shoot them in great volume either. So for me with Porzingis it would be mid range to rim with a little 3 added in. This will be critical and can give Porzingis an opportunity to play like a combination of kg and dirk. Kaminsky can simply take his great fundamentals and just keep improving. I think Kaminsky is the safe bet Porzingis has a higher potential plateau as a player
I would agree with this, too.Do you believe the workouts we will put these guys through can make you feel differently about this?
Same thing applies.I can see Kaminsky doing something like hitting 48/50 in 3 point shooting using handling skills footwork that looks great etc then porzingis reaching 9-7 playing well above the rim shooting well in standing drills. I think both could do well in workouts.Kaminsky has some advantage of going through th process now for a couple of months as kp has been playing out his season
codeunknown wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:codeunknown wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:codeunknown wrote:Porzingis depends on your individual level of risk aversion. He's tall and mobile with a good shooting touch, so there is a chance he could be great. I will bet however that he will be able to be effectively guarded by the 6'8 to 6'10 NBA prototype given his average 1st step/handle/post agility. A lot depends on how his body develops along the strength/quickness tradeoff but, playing the percentages, I pass on Porzingis at #4 without too much hesitation.
I don't see Kris as being as much of risk as Darko and some of the Euros who have been drafted. Kris get major minutes while those other guys usually rode the benches on their club team. Workouts are going to play a huge role here, but I can honestly say that Porzingis displayed above average ball handling and agility in his clips. You don't need super human explosiveness when you can get to the rim in a step. The only real question is his body.
Don't agree with you on the ball handling or agility with respect to the defense he will face at the 4 in the NBA. Also don't agree with you that he'll be getting to the rim in 1 step, unless its through a defender. He has a chance to be net positive if his body allows him to defend and rebound at a passable level. I'm not taking the chance, I'll pass.
You gotta remember that he is a four--with three-point range. Most of his drives will be straight line to the hoop. Pump fake and go. He's not Lebron. You're not going to ask him to run the offense. His dribbling is in line with what Andrei Kirilenko could do coming into the league.
Again it depends on what you expect from the #4 pick in terms of the probability distribution of different levels of success. I agree that he can play a secondary role in the offense as the recipient of passes from a primary offensive threat. But in that case, you need to be at least average defensively and rebounding-wise in order to make a positive contribution. I don't like the odds with him.
I'm willing to make that wager. Initially, he will have to be the fourth or fifth option while he's on the court. But have you seen his block and steal numbers? The kid is already displaying the potential to be a defensive stud, especially from the weak side. At 19, you have to figure he will get stronger and become a bigger factor on the boards.
BigDaddyG wrote:codeunknown wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:codeunknown wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:codeunknown wrote:Porzingis depends on your individual level of risk aversion. He's tall and mobile with a good shooting touch, so there is a chance he could be great. I will bet however that he will be able to be effectively guarded by the 6'8 to 6'10 NBA prototype given his average 1st step/handle/post agility. A lot depends on how his body develops along the strength/quickness tradeoff but, playing the percentages, I pass on Porzingis at #4 without too much hesitation.
I don't see Kris as being as much of risk as Darko and some of the Euros who have been drafted. Kris get major minutes while those other guys usually rode the benches on their club team. Workouts are going to play a huge role here, but I can honestly say that Porzingis displayed above average ball handling and agility in his clips. You don't need super human explosiveness when you can get to the rim in a step. The only real question is his body.
Don't agree with you on the ball handling or agility with respect to the defense he will face at the 4 in the NBA. Also don't agree with you that he'll be getting to the rim in 1 step, unless its through a defender. He has a chance to be net positive if his body allows him to defend and rebound at a passable level. I'm not taking the chance, I'll pass.
You gotta remember that he is a four--with three-point range. Most of his drives will be straight line to the hoop. Pump fake and go. He's not Lebron. You're not going to ask him to run the offense. His dribbling is in line with what Andrei Kirilenko could do coming into the league.
Again it depends on what you expect from the #4 pick in terms of the probability distribution of different levels of success. I agree that he can play a secondary role in the offense as the recipient of passes from a primary offensive threat. But in that case, you need to be at least average defensively and rebounding-wise in order to make a positive contribution. I don't like the odds with him.
I'm willing to make that wager. Initially, he will have to be the fourth or fifth option while he's on the court. But have you seen his block and steal numbers? The kid is already displaying the potential to be a defensive stud, especially from the weak side. At 19, you have to figure he will get stronger and become a bigger factor on the boards.
I'd say you're on but I'm not sure what exactly you want to bet on. I don't think he is worth the 4th pick; maybe our expectations of the pick are divergent in addition to our projections of where he ends up. I think there's a reasonable chance he ends up a starting caliber player. I think there is a low chance he develops into an all-star level player. I'll take you up on a bet that he will never be a defensive force (including rebounding), although its possible his block numbers may be mildly inflated from over-helping. That's not quite enough for me at #4.
