Knicks · How Much Was JR Smith Really Worth? (page 2)

JR could go AWOL any minute like he did during the playoffs in our 54 win season. He had to be traded.

JR is basically a spark. Sometimes he's a spark that fires up the cylinders on the team and he's good. Or times he's a spark near the gas tank. In either instance he isnt a guy you can rely on to be a difference maker. he's great for the Cavs since his role is produce better than a fourth option while being the fourth option. For the Knicks he was terrible due to roster makeup.

knickscity wrote:JR is basically a spark. Sometimes he's a spark that fires up the cylinders on the team and he's good. Or times he's a spark near the gas tank. In either instance he isnt a guy you can rely on to be a difference maker. he's great for the Cavs since his role is produce better than a fourth option while being the fourth option. For the Knicks he was terrible due to roster makeup.

perfectly stated

TripleThreat wrote:

mreinman wrote:Is our GM making bad moves or are all the GM's dealing with him just getting lucky?

Imagine JR Smith on different rosters and imagine if his shoelace untyiing antics would fly on other rosters.

In ANY sports, locker room dynamics matters. There are the players who produce the most, who have a voice amongst the crowd. Then there are the toughest SOBs in the room, the heavy hitters, the enforcers, who by way of force of personality, help to regulate the locker room.

I hated Derek Fisher as a player. He was a dirty player. But he had a knack for galvanizing the roster around him. He could even calm down that shotjacking selfish rapist in Kobe Bryant ( Someone last week told me not to call Bryant a rapist and that it "hurt my credibility", my answer to that is don't tell me what to post. Ever. If you don't like it, don't read it. )

With a headcase like JR Smith, you need a player who will instill fear in him. Do your job. Play the game the right way. Or else. Or else I will totally fuck you up. I will squat over and take a big fat shit in your mouth. I will make you suffer.

Paul Pierce. David West. Joakim Noah. JR Smith wouldn't be a jackhole around them. He won't be a jackhole around LeBron James.

Melo's failure in leadership has a tax to it. On Phil Jackson's end, he needed to get a locker room enforcer and didn't, that's his fault.

JR Smith is a front runner POS. If you can play wing in the NBA, you'll always have a job. He's a huge waste of talent. Part of not regulating Smith on the Knicks is on Melo ( You want the big city and the big seat and to be the "Man", then you need to carry the responsibility to lead) and also on Phil Jackson ( You have to identify what the locker room needs to function)

JR is JR regardless who is around him. Watching, highly Questionable, Billups said JR thanked him many times for saving I'm after doing something stupid. That's just him, Lebron couldn't stop him from taking swipe at Crowder.

Im happy he is gone BUT we put ourselves in that whole mess as usual. Remember we gave him a multi year deal which most of us knew was a mistake. So we had to give up an asset(Shumpert) just to get rid of him

yellowboy90 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topi...

mreinman wrote:so we got rid of JR's contract for next season. That is awesome!

Shumpert was a worthless RFA gonner anyway

I would make a terrible GM ... obviously

Its good that they don't pay me to be a GM ... or maybe if they would pay me, I would be less emotional and make moves while even keel

You can also find many posts of me saying that JR can be a top player in the league if he was not such a bonehead and played with better players.

I also now realize how good melo makes other players.

NY Melo or Denver Melo?

JR went back to his Denver role and Shump has basically stayed his hot occasionally, hurt/injured, below avg player self.

I give the lack of nightlife, JR playing for money, and the phil Jackson chip on his shoulder.

As Ephus on KB likes to say, " There's two things about JR we all know, there is nothing he can't do on the basketball court and there is nothing he won't do on the basketball court."

JR was good with Denver CB, NY Kidd, and Lebron

it all comes back to needing a true leader. I think that we can all agree that the knicks don't have this now.

mreinman wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topi...

mreinman wrote:so we got rid of JR's contract for next season. That is awesome!

Shumpert was a worthless RFA gonner anyway

I would make a terrible GM ... obviously

Its good that they don't pay me to be a GM ... or maybe if they would pay me, I would be less emotional and make moves while even keel

You can also find many posts of me saying that JR can be a top player in the league if he was not such a bonehead and played with better players.

I also now realize how good melo makes other players.

NY Melo or Denver Melo?

JR went back to his Denver role and Shump has basically stayed his hot occasionally, hurt/injured, below avg player self.

I give the lack of nightlife, JR playing for money, and the phil Jackson chip on his shoulder.

As Ephus on KB likes to say, " There's two things about JR we all know, there is nothing he can't do on the basketball court and there is nothing he won't do on the basketball court."

JR was good with Denver CB, NY Kidd, and Lebron

it all comes back to needing a true leader. I think that we can all agree that the knicks don't have this now.

He did similar stuff with everyone he has played with. He gets ast'd on 3s in Nyc just like in Cleveland. with and w/o kidd.. Its more about him than anyone else

Silverfuel wrote:JR could go AWOL any minute like he did during the playoffs in our 54 win season. He had to be traded.

You mean when he played injured (in the playoffs), had no lift, and had surgery in july, then he came back to soon.

The bottom line is, phil fck up trading him, 1) to a eastern conference team 2) for a dime bag of weed 3)with an expiring contract of another decent asset 4)to a contender.

Most didn't mind trading them, but for god sake, get to something of value back.

One more bad move and phil is going to be in heavy competition with ISiah for the worst president in KNICK HISORY.

we can excuse each move that he makes but at some point, we will run out of excuses

we should wait until after next season to see how he does. I assume that if he has another year like this, then he will probably walk away on his own citing health issues.

If the team wins 40 games and the draft pick looks promising then that would be a good sign.

The question is, if Fisher gets off to a rough start, will he make it through the season.

yellowboy90 wrote:

mreinman wrote:How GM got a bag of nada for him.

This could be the move that saved Cleveland

Based on the way he has played, we could have gotten 2 first rounders for him ala mozgov (well not really but ...)

Is our GM making bad moves or are all the GM's dealing with him just getting lucky?

So where is the old trade threads people like to bring up?

Great find. This is where posters become captain obvious and only see whats in front of them. JR has always had the ability to take over games and get hot. Nobody ever slammed his talent.

Its his brain.

Don't waste our time with adolescent Rants.

Nalod wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

mreinman wrote:How GM got a bag of nada for him.

This could be the move that saved Cleveland

Based on the way he has played, we could have gotten 2 first rounders for him ala mozgov (well not really but ...)

Is our GM making bad moves or are all the GM's dealing with him just getting lucky?

So where is the old trade threads people like to bring up?

Great find. This is where posters become captain obvious and only see whats in front of them. JR has always had the ability to take over games and get hot. Nobody ever slammed his talent.

Its his brain.

Don't waste our time with adolescent Rants.

so you have become mr defend phil at all costs?

have at it ... everybody has a right

How do you like phils moves so far (not to pre judge, just some commentary)

When JR is not distracted and focuses on his job you get what you expect out of him. NY was too much for him. The nighlife, partying with Rhianna,tweets with groupies, way too much for JR. We have got to find a player who is mature enough to deal with the Big Apple.

knicks1248 wrote:

Silverfuel wrote:JR could go AWOL any minute like he did during the playoffs in our 54 win season. He had to be traded.

You mean when he played injured (in the playoffs), had no lift, and had surgery in july, then he came back to soon.

The bottom line is, phil fck up trading him, 1) to a eastern conference team 2) for a dime bag of weed 3)with an expiring contract of another decent asset 4)to a contender.

Most didn't mind trading them, but for god sake, get to something of value back.

One more bad move and phil is going to be in heavy competition with ISiah for the worst president in KNICK HISORY.

Ive heard this before and its BS. JR was playing just fine until he started partying until sunrise.

This is not on the Knicks, its on JR. We have seen him play great. Woody got a career season out of him but its never been sustainable for JR. Lebron can probably keep him focused for the rest of these playoffs. Lets see next year. God I hope they give him a huge deal. Wait until next year when he fails drug tests because Cle is boring him.

JesseDark wrote:When JR is not distracted and focuses on his job you get what you expect out of him. NY was too much for him. The nighlife, partying with Rhianna,tweets with groupies, way too much for JR. We have got to find a player who is mature enough to deal with the Big Apple.

he couldnt handle China or Denver either, so he's covering all spectrums.

JR is a pitcher with a 99mph fastball. So long as we can still throw the heat a GM or team will think they can get this guy straight. He's talented and talent is always coveted.

fishmike wrote:

JesseDark wrote:When JR is not distracted and focuses on his job you get what you expect out of him. NY was too much for him. The nighlife, partying with Rhianna,tweets with groupies, way too much for JR. We have got to find a player who is mature enough to deal with the Big Apple.

he couldnt handle China or Denver either, so he's covering all spectrums.

JR is a pitcher with a 99mph fastball. So long as we can still throw the heat a GM or team will think they can get this guy straight. He's talented and talent is always coveted.

JR is the kind of player who matures late. I think his experience in NY will only make him mature even faster. So this is why he's killing in Cleveland. It didn't matter where he landed, he has something to prove to NY fans and he's clearly riding his emotions for being traded. But it just shows you that JR needs external motivation to succeed. But when he has to motivate himself, he's lost.

fishmike wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Silverfuel wrote:JR could go AWOL any minute like he did during the playoffs in our 54 win season. He had to be traded.

You mean when he played injured (in the playoffs), had no lift, and had surgery in july, then he came back to soon.

The bottom line is, phil fck up trading him, 1) to a eastern conference team 2) for a dime bag of weed 3)with an expiring contract of another decent asset 4)to a contender.

Most didn't mind trading them, but for god sake, get to something of value back.

One more bad move and phil is going to be in heavy competition with ISiah for the worst president in KNICK HISORY.

Ive heard this before and its BS. JR was playing just fine until he started partying until sunrise.

This is not on the Knicks, its on JR. We have seen him play great. Woody got a career season out of him but its never been sustainable for JR. Lebron can probably keep him focused for the rest of these playoffs. Lets see next year. God I hope they give him a huge deal. Wait until next year when he fails drug tests because Cle is boring him.

JR has always been partying..They all party..

holfresh wrote:

fishmike wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Silverfuel wrote:JR could go AWOL any minute like he did during the playoffs in our 54 win season. He had to be traded.

You mean when he played injured (in the playoffs), had no lift, and had surgery in july, then he came back to soon.

The bottom line is, phil fck up trading him, 1) to a eastern conference team 2) for a dime bag of weed 3)with an expiring contract of another decent asset 4)to a contender.

Most didn't mind trading them, but for god sake, get to something of value back.

One more bad move and phil is going to be in heavy competition with ISiah for the worst president in KNICK HISORY.

Ive heard this before and its BS. JR was playing just fine until he started partying until sunrise.

This is not on the Knicks, its on JR. We have seen him play great. Woody got a career season out of him but its never been sustainable for JR. Lebron can probably keep him focused for the rest of these playoffs. Lets see next year. God I hope they give him a huge deal. Wait until next year when he fails drug tests because Cle is boring him.

JR has always been partying..They all party..

To a point where it diminishes their performance in games?

There are a lot of things to like about Smith, and he had some good moments for the Knicks, but the guy is self-destructive if not tethered.

Luckily for him, James has opened up his arms for him and taken him under his wings.

blkexec wrote:

fishmike wrote:

JesseDark wrote:When JR is not distracted and focuses on his job you get what you expect out of him. NY was too much for him. The nighlife, partying with Rhianna,tweets with groupies, way too much for JR. We have got to find a player who is mature enough to deal with the Big Apple.

he couldnt handle China or Denver either, so he's covering all spectrums.

JR is a pitcher with a 99mph fastball. So long as we can still throw the heat a GM or team will think they can get this guy straight. He's talented and talent is always coveted.

JR is the kind of player who matures late. I think his experience in NY will only make him mature even faster. So this is why he's killing in Cleveland. It didn't matter where he landed, he has something to prove to NY fans and he's clearly riding his emotions for being traded. But it just shows you that JR needs external motivation to succeed. But when he has to motivate himself, he's lost.

100%. We saw it with the Knicks. When he was motivated he was a star. When he wasnt fans (like the one who started this thread) are thrilled to see him traded for nothing. Just go away. That bad. It hard to build like that.

blkexec wrote:

fishmike wrote:

JesseDark wrote:When JR is not distracted and focuses on his job you get what you expect out of him. NY was too much for him. The nighlife, partying with Rhianna,tweets with groupies, way too much for JR. We have got to find a player who is mature enough to deal with the Big Apple.

he couldnt handle China or Denver either, so he's covering all spectrums.

JR is a pitcher with a 99mph fastball. So long as we can still throw the heat a GM or team will think they can get this guy straight. He's talented and talent is always coveted.

JR is the kind of player who matures late. I think his experience in NY will only make him mature even faster. So this is why he's killing in Cleveland. It didn't matter where he landed, he has something to prove to NY fans and he's clearly riding his emotions for being traded. But it just shows you that JR needs external motivation to succeed. But when he has to motivate himself, he's lost.

Yeah I agree,especially the part apart external motivation, what a shame he didn't get it when he was with us. You never know when he is going to loose it over a foul or something else.

mreinman wrote:

Nalod wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

mreinman wrote:How GM got a bag of nada for him.

This could be the move that saved Cleveland

Based on the way he has played, we could have gotten 2 first rounders for him ala mozgov (well not really but ...)

Is our GM making bad moves or are all the GM's dealing with him just getting lucky?

So where is the old trade threads people like to bring up?

Great find. This is where posters become captain obvious and only see whats in front of them. JR has always had the ability to take over games and get hot. Nobody ever slammed his talent.

Its his brain.

Don't waste our time with adolescent Rants.

so you have become mr defend phil at all costs?

have at it ... everybody has a right

How do you like phils moves so far (not to pre judge, just some commentary)

Nalod didn't bring up Phil, you did. He wasn't defending Phil as much as pointing out to you the obvious value of JR

skeng wrote:I don't care how well JR does for whoever the fuck. Fuck him and his brother. And his sorry ass should quit with that "one man's trash is another man's treasure" bullshyt! Just be happy we shipped you to fuckin Cleveland to contend for a ring.

Amen brother.