Knicks · The case for Justice Winslow (page 2)

callmened wrote:when you say closer to stackhouse...u mean built like a truck-stackhouse?

offensively stackhouse was a scoring machine inside and out. winslow doesnt have much on offense. he has a nice transition game, improving jumper and powerful B-Line drives

I see him as a guy who will get his points slashing to the hoop and getting to the foul line. Stack had a lot of the same weaknesses coming out of UNC. Shaky J, shaky handle, a bit turnover prone. Even in the pros, Stack only shot like 31% from three. Winslow has the same attacking style. His first instinct is to attack the rim.

my point was stackhouse was a bonafide scorer no questions asked. all i know about winslow is that hes a beast physically, thrives in transition and plays good defense. heis learning how to shoot and his scoring can improve. but stackhouse was more polished offensively coming out of UNC

One of his main strengths is his character- he has a AAA attitude, exactly what Fisher said we're looking for: tenacious, hard working, not afraid of the big moment- he stepped up big time in the tournament. That will ensure he gets the most out of his potential and he will work hard. Also the fact he improved so much as the year goes on, indicates he may have even more upside, much like Jimmy Butler showed.

I have my reservations though- I have no skill in scouting, can someone answer: can he play the SG spot effectively? If he can't, I'm not sure if it's wise to draft a SF when SF is the only spot we actually have filled (Melo, Early, Thannasis).

Also looking at FA, you can kind of sign a Winslow, by going for Carroll, where as there are no FA PGs that have the potential skills of Mudiay.

I'm torn- I like him a lot, but he's kind of like the third piece you'd add rather than the second, if that makes sense. Not knowing how free agency is going to go makes this draft even tougher! I suspect the Knicks will pick Winslow (him hanging out with melo, Fisher basically describing him when saying what we were looking for on the day of the combine).

One thing we should add to these case threads maybe should be what free agents you'd target to complement the draft pick.

smackeddog wrote:One thing we should add to these case threads maybe should be what free agents you'd target to complement the draft pick.

interesting idea!

If the Knicks take Winslow do they trade Early and/or Thanasis. I think if you grab Winslow at 4 you are planning on him anchoring the 2-3 position for a long time.

BRIGGS wrote:Since we have gone through the prospects today lets get to all of them.

Here is the question with Winslow--can he use the dribble to make plays like James Harden can? Is this player a combo of Harden Butler and Leonard?

Will his open floor game not only translate to the NBA but actually exceed expectations?

Hes got a nice jumper for 19 can he continue that and even get better?

Im confused about this pick as anyone--believe me. But we have a month to get it right.

Watching this video--when you step back and look at it a few times--he's going to be great.

i agree. he is cut from the same cloth as paul george, jimmy butler, kawhi leonard. not too many two-way wing players out there. the knicks would be wise to draft him. the triangle doesn't call for a point guard, it requires players who with good court vision, good conditioning, good passing instincts. hence the knicks would get full value from winslow, but diminished value from players who are more in the point guard/scoring point guard mold.

the knicks need two-way players in their starting lineup in the worst possible way.

Winslow looks like he will be a very good role player, but as others have mentioned, thats not what you want with the 4 pick. Unfortunately since we are out of the top three, getting a very good role player is the safest bet.

Phil might not want to take the risk of drafting a potential bust and go that route. Or that theory might be why he could trade the pick to make the most of Melo's prime, while he still has one.

CrushAlot wrote:If the Knicks take Winslow do they trade Early and/or Thanasis. I think if you grab Winslow at 4 you are planning on him anchoring the 2-3 position for a long time.

Early and Thanasis are 2nd round picks. They are role players who will probably never be starting players. You draft Winslow to be a starter, and the others help fill out the roster.

Knixkik wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:If the Knicks take Winslow do they trade Early and/or Thanasis. I think if you grab Winslow at 4 you are planning on him anchoring the 2-3 position for a long time.

Early and Thanasis are 2nd round picks. They are role players who will probably never be starting players. You draft Winslow to be a starter, and the others help fill out the roster.

I am not saying their not role players but do you need three young guys that play the same position or do you try to move one and fill a need?

CrushAlot wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:If the Knicks take Winslow do they trade Early and/or Thanasis. I think if you grab Winslow at 4 you are planning on him anchoring the 2-3 position for a long time.

Early and Thanasis are 2nd round picks. They are role players who will probably never be starting players. You draft Winslow to be a starter, and the others help fill out the roster.

I am not saying their not role players but do you need three young guys that play the same position or do you try to move one and fill a need?

I think Winslow would be a SG here and the other 2 will be SF or combo forwards. I don't think either of them have enough trade value to use to fill another need, i just think both are good fillers in a potential trade. But hopefully we keep both. Always need athletic forwards.

im torn on this kid. he is a very safe pick. he won't be a flop in the league. you can just tell, he has "it" ... its hard to believe he's just a teenager.

I keep forgetting he is only 19....really think he is going to be a very good player in the league for a long time as he does everything.

As much as we want to complain about missing out on #1 and #2, we are lucky the draft is this strong. There should definitely be an all-star caliber player sitting there at #4.

BRIGGS wrote:The only question mark is his game off the dribble. Thats what Harden does so well and so far Winslow does not. Hes got a great dribble drive and Euro step but he isnt a great shooter off the dribble YET. He does have a good -looking lefty set stroke. BUT D Wade was NOT a good shooter off the dribble initially either--he was prolific at B line drives which could not be stopped. This is the scary guy because he has that combination power and athletic ability set. Only other guys in the draft who hasve the same is Andersen Wells and Rice but they are not at Winslows level of two way play and they are 3 years older.

Yeah I agree and can't see any way anyone could be mad at picking him at 4. The kid is being compared to two all stars in Butler and Leonard who both pretty much came into the league with the same questions of great defenders and great athleticism but need to work on their shots and K.Leonard is still inconsistent with his shot at times but both of them are at the top of everyone's wish list in free agency right now. If we stay at 4 then there's three guys on my list at 4 in Winslow, Mudiay, Porzingis and even though I wouldnt be thrilled with the pick I still have WCS as a distant 4th.

I love his game and toughness but I don't think you can justify picking him at 4. Not when you have the ceiling that Russell and Mudiay have.

Knicks1969 wrote:I still can't believe we are picking fourth in this draft. That is a travesty. At two or three, we would have many more options.

At two or three we would have one or two more options.

BigDaddyG wrote:Winslow reminds me of guys like Jerry Stackhouse and Quentin Richardson's powerfully built wings who were forced to play power forward in college. I think Winslow can make the transition, but it's hard to tell where he eventually lands. Butler, Stack house...Richard Jefferson? Wings are the hardest guys to predict. For every Arron Afflalo that surprises deep in the draft, there's a guy like Xavier Henry who flops. If I had to guess, I'd say Winslow is closer to Stackhouse. That's a nice player to have.

I dont see the comparison between Winslow and Stack at all really.

smackeddog wrote:One thing we should add to these case threads maybe should be what free agents you'd target to complement the draft pick.

Oh good job you just gave Briggs another thread to start. Lol

Winslow is a guy I honed in on in case we missed out on the two big men and now that's going to happen and I really think Winslow is the guy I want. I definitely agree with the Kawhi/Paul George comparisons; I think at a minimum he's a game changing defender who can defend 1-3 as well as small-ball 4s and who will be at least a capable offensive player that other teams will have to respect. And, he was a much better 3-point shooter than either MKG or Leonard were in college.

Also, I don't see that anyone mentioned his injury. He played with a broken rib for the first half season. It healed in January and that's when we really took off.

I like Winslow. I like how he rebounds and runs the break he attacks the basket well decent shooter. But does he have the ability to raise the level of play of others? Can he create for others at a high level. Winslow would be a great player to have but if presented with the choice of Mudiay or Winslow I would take Mudiay, Winslow for me was behind Mudiay but ahead of Russell only because of athleticism.

Vmart wrote:I like Winslow. I like how he rebounds and runs the break he attacks the basket well decent shooter. But does he have the ability to raise the level of play of others? Can he create for others at a high level. Winslow would be a great player to have but if presented with the choice of Mudiay or Winslow I would take Mudiay, Winslow for me was behind Mudiay but ahead of Russell only because of athleticism.

you are describing a franchise talent which is too much of a burden to place on any of these young men. that said, winslow is going to exceed expectations based on his intangibles alone, and i foresee a player who will be able to draw fouls while being able to guard three positions. we have to have two-way players in the starting lineup to cover melo's defense. the others you mention don't have a rep for d.