Sangfroid wrote:nixluva wrote:smackeddog wrote:BRIGGS wrote:This reminds me a lot of Channing Frye when we drafted him. We bypassed Andrew Bynum. Isiah Thomas felt Channing Frye was the best player in the draft--ah Isiah not close on that one. He was a win now guy who had a few real good workouts--but like Stein came with a stigma of not really playing all that well in the actual game itself. I think there are some guys who can practice better and others who just seem to be gamers.
The correlation of Frye-Bynum Stein-Porzingis is there--same thing and I think same result.
Kaminsky reminds me of Channing Frye too
Frye was an OK player once he found a role. The comparison is silly since Frye would never have a shot to be considered a possible DPOY. WCS has that kind of defensive talent. It's the same with Kaminsky. WCS is a defensive stud with some ability on offense, whereas Frye and Kaminsky are the complete opposite. KrisP is a little of both but not quite the defender that WCS is. It's not clear that KrisP will have that kind of defensive aggression. Blocking some shots isn't the same as being able and willing to guard some smaller quicker player for 94 feet or being used to shut down the other teams best player. That's how WCS has been used. It's why I want him for this team. He will concentrate on D because he loves it and not just cuz someone wants him to try and be a defensive anchor. He relishes that role. Teams need players like that to be elite defensively.
Looking at WCS I think of Jared Jeffries. Loved his effort, hated his talent level, or lack of. Take the Zinger. Higher offensive output, great weakside defensive help. It's a watershed moment. Take the path less chosen.
It's an insult to say WCS is like Jared Jeffries. I just think it's easy to underrate just how talented WCS actually is. He's only just starting to really develop all of his talent. He's not a guy that can't develop scoring. Jared was allergic to even simple things offensively at the NBA level. Just because they have similar defensive traits doesn't mean that WCS will forever be limited offensively.
WCS has elite explosion, speed, lateral quickness and agility for his size. In addition his eye to hand coordination is high, which showed in his ability as a Wide Receiver and his finishing at the rim at 72%. He's got a chance to be very effective on the offensive end to go along with his elite defensive ability. That could make him an All Star candidate someday. He's likely to be more like Ibaka than Jeffries offensively.
I just watched a finals where the winning team won based on skills and motor. Does Willie Stein have the ballhandling the passing--has he shown good in game offense? Obviously the guy is athletic and from all reports even from Kentucky can shoot when he is alone or practicing halfcourt 2-2. But when the bright lights have been on him--well he's had his moments and he also has been absent. He wont be a bust but Im not sure what he is and thats why I would pass.
jbeachboy wrote:7 foot john wall
7 foot John Wall who scored 2 points his last game. I would think a 7 foot John wall would have atleast 30. I have some land I'm selling and I think it might be full of oil under ground--Ill give you a good price on it.
jbeachboy wrote:7 foot john wall
Dude will consistently beat his man down court. I just don't think people realize how dynamic WCS actually is. If we draft him they'll see the energy he'll bring to this team.
BRIGGS wrote:jbeachboy wrote:7 foot john wall
7 foot John Wall who scored 2 points his last game. I would think a 7 foot John wall would have atleast 30. I have some land I'm selling and I think it might be full of oil under ground--Ill give you a good price on it.
You really aren't seeing the big picture. Unlike Moz or Bogut, WCS won't have to come off the floor. He can defend against mobile smaller teams. WCS will also be fine in a fast paced offensive game cuz in our motion offense he has the quickness and agility to move without the ball and attack the basket. His jumper will come along and be good enough to be functional.
The idea tho is to be good enough on D to slow teams down. We can build a team on the base of WCS as the anchor to our defense. You can't hope to just outscore teams. We'll be fine offensively.
nixluva wrote:BRIGGS wrote:jbeachboy wrote:7 foot john wall
7 foot John Wall who scored 2 points his last game. I would think a 7 foot John wall would have atleast 30. I have some land I'm selling and I think it might be full of oil under ground--Ill give you a good price on it.
You really aren't seeing the big picture. Unlike Moz or Bogut, WCS won't have to come off the floor. He can defend against mobile smaller teams. WCS will also be fine in a fast paced offensive game cuz in our motion offense he has the quickness and agility to move without the ball and attack the basket. His jumper will come along and be good enough to be functional.
The idea tho is to be good enough on D to slow teams down. We can build a team on the base of WCS as the anchor to our defense. You can't hope to just outscore teams. We'll be fine offensively.
Every time WCS touches the ball he will be swarmed as a poor ball mover/ protector. Hes going to look great in these workouts where athleticism really brings you up. But his body of work over 3 years is very spotty. Hes looked great hes looked good hes looked disengaged hes looked awful--thats his 3 yr career. I can see it now Knicks find sports psychologist for Willie Stein--because hes going to need 1. IMHO Willie Stein is RISKIER than Porzingis.
BRIGGS wrote:nixluva wrote:BRIGGS wrote:jbeachboy wrote:7 foot john wall
7 foot John Wall who scored 2 points his last game. I would think a 7 foot John wall would have atleast 30. I have some land I'm selling and I think it might be full of oil under ground--Ill give you a good price on it.
You really aren't seeing the big picture. Unlike Moz or Bogut, WCS won't have to come off the floor. He can defend against mobile smaller teams. WCS will also be fine in a fast paced offensive game cuz in our motion offense he has the quickness and agility to move without the ball and attack the basket. His jumper will come along and be good enough to be functional.
The idea tho is to be good enough on D to slow teams down. We can build a team on the base of WCS as the anchor to our defense. You can't hope to just outscore teams. We'll be fine offensively.
Every time WCS touches the ball he will be swarmed as a poor ball mover/ protector. Hes going to look great in these workouts where athleticism really brings you up. But his body of work over 3 years is very spotty. Hes looked great hes looked good hes looked disengaged hes looked awful--thats his 3 yr career. I can see it now Knicks find sports psychologist for Willie Stein--because hes going to need 1. IMHO Willie Stein is RISKIER than Porzingis.
Every time Kaminsky touches the ball they'll ask him to throw it back inbounds so they can resume play.
crzymdups wrote:BRIGGS wrote:nixluva wrote:BRIGGS wrote:jbeachboy wrote:7 foot john wall
7 foot John Wall who scored 2 points his last game. I would think a 7 foot John wall would have atleast 30. I have some land I'm selling and I think it might be full of oil under ground--Ill give you a good price on it.
You really aren't seeing the big picture. Unlike Moz or Bogut, WCS won't have to come off the floor. He can defend against mobile smaller teams. WCS will also be fine in a fast paced offensive game cuz in our motion offense he has the quickness and agility to move without the ball and attack the basket. His jumper will come along and be good enough to be functional.
The idea tho is to be good enough on D to slow teams down. We can build a team on the base of WCS as the anchor to our defense. You can't hope to just outscore teams. We'll be fine offensively.
Every time WCS touches the ball he will be swarmed as a poor ball mover/ protector. Hes going to look great in these workouts where athleticism really brings you up. But his body of work over 3 years is very spotty. Hes looked great hes looked good hes looked disengaged hes looked awful--thats his 3 yr career. I can see it now Knicks find sports psychologist for Willie Stein--because hes going to need 1. IMHO Willie Stein is RISKIER than Porzingis.
Every time Kaminsky touches the ball they'll ask him to throw it back inbounds so they can resume play.
Yeah but thats not a turnover.
nixluva wrote:Sangfroid wrote:nixluva wrote:smackeddog wrote:BRIGGS wrote:This reminds me a lot of Channing Frye when we drafted him. We bypassed Andrew Bynum. Isiah Thomas felt Channing Frye was the best player in the draft--ah Isiah not close on that one. He was a win now guy who had a few real good workouts--but like Stein came with a stigma of not really playing all that well in the actual game itself. I think there are some guys who can practice better and others who just seem to be gamers.
The correlation of Frye-Bynum Stein-Porzingis is there--same thing and I think same result.
Kaminsky reminds me of Channing Frye too
Frye was an OK player once he found a role. The comparison is silly since Frye would never have a shot to be considered a possible DPOY. WCS has that kind of defensive talent. It's the same with Kaminsky. WCS is a defensive stud with some ability on offense, whereas Frye and Kaminsky are the complete opposite. KrisP is a little of both but not quite the defender that WCS is. It's not clear that KrisP will have that kind of defensive aggression. Blocking some shots isn't the same as being able and willing to guard some smaller quicker player for 94 feet or being used to shut down the other teams best player. That's how WCS has been used. It's why I want him for this team. He will concentrate on D because he loves it and not just cuz someone wants him to try and be a defensive anchor. He relishes that role. Teams need players like that to be elite defensively.
Looking at WCS I think of Jared Jeffries. Loved his effort, hated his talent level, or lack of. Take the Zinger. Higher offensive output, great weakside defensive help. It's a watershed moment. Take the path less chosen.
It's an insult to say WCS is like Jared Jeffries. I just think it's easy to underrate just how talented WCS actually is. He's only just starting to really develop all of his talent. He's not a guy that can't develop scoring. Jared was allergic to even simple things offensively at the NBA level. Just because they have similar defensive traits doesn't mean that WCS will forever be limited offensively.
WCS has elite explosion, speed, lateral quickness and agility for his size. In addition his eye to hand coordination is high, which showed in his ability as a Wide Receiver and his finishing at the rim at 72%. He's got a chance to be very effective on the offensive end to go along with his elite defensive ability. That could make him an All Star candidate someday. He's likely to be more like Ibaka than Jeffries offensively.
Jefferies and Stein are so different, and it pains me to see how some fans have chosen to compare the two players.
stein compares pretty favorably to nerlens noel...
FistOfOakley wrote:stein compares pretty favorably to nerlens noel...
Not really. Nerlens is not as agile as Stein. He might perhaps be similar shot blocker as Stein, but Stein covers a lot more ground on the defensive end.
BRIGGS wrote:nixluva wrote:BRIGGS wrote:jbeachboy wrote:7 foot john wall
7 foot John Wall who scored 2 points his last game. I would think a 7 foot John wall would have atleast 30. I have some land I'm selling and I think it might be full of oil under ground--Ill give you a good price on it.
You really aren't seeing the big picture. Unlike Moz or Bogut, WCS won't have to come off the floor. He can defend against mobile smaller teams. WCS will also be fine in a fast paced offensive game cuz in our motion offense he has the quickness and agility to move without the ball and attack the basket. His jumper will come along and be good enough to be functional.
The idea tho is to be good enough on D to slow teams down. We can build a team on the base of WCS as the anchor to our defense. You can't hope to just outscore teams. We'll be fine offensively.
Every time WCS touches the ball he will be swarmed as a poor ball mover/ protector. Hes going to look great in these workouts where athleticism really brings you up. But his body of work over 3 years is very spotty. Hes looked great hes looked good hes looked disengaged hes looked awful--thats his 3 yr career. I can see it now Knicks find sports psychologist for Willie Stein--because hes going to need 1. IMHO Willie Stein is RISKIER than Porzingis.
We don't run the same offense as the Cavs!!! We run a motion offense where there is constant motion off the ball and spacing that forces teams to defend players in specific spots. It won't be so easy to just swarm any particular player because we will have cutters and players in motion all the time. The only issue is the talent of the players in the lineup. We didn't really have enough talent to make it all work at its best. Once we do it won't be so easy to stop.
As for WCS he's not going to remain a player who doesn't have a clear role in the offense. In our system he will have a very clear role and he'll know the rules of the offense which will tell him what to do in terms of passing and motion. Our offense is completely different from what you saw him playing in college. The spacing is different as well. It's just a completely different game.
nixluva wrote:BRIGGS wrote:nixluva wrote:BRIGGS wrote:jbeachboy wrote:7 foot john wall
7 foot John Wall who scored 2 points his last game. I would think a 7 foot John wall would have atleast 30. I have some land I'm selling and I think it might be full of oil under ground--Ill give you a good price on it.
You really aren't seeing the big picture. Unlike Moz or Bogut, WCS won't have to come off the floor. He can defend against mobile smaller teams. WCS will also be fine in a fast paced offensive game cuz in our motion offense he has the quickness and agility to move without the ball and attack the basket. His jumper will come along and be good enough to be functional.
The idea tho is to be good enough on D to slow teams down. We can build a team on the base of WCS as the anchor to our defense. You can't hope to just outscore teams. We'll be fine offensively.
Every time WCS touches the ball he will be swarmed as a poor ball mover/ protector. Hes going to look great in these workouts where athleticism really brings you up. But his body of work over 3 years is very spotty. Hes looked great hes looked good hes looked disengaged hes looked awful--thats his 3 yr career. I can see it now Knicks find sports psychologist for Willie Stein--because hes going to need 1. IMHO Willie Stein is RISKIER than Porzingis.
We don't run the same offense as the Cavs!!! We run a motion offense where there is constant motion off the ball and spacing that forces teams to defend players in specific spots. It won't be so easy to just swarm any particular player because we will have cutters and players in motion all the time. The only issue is the talent of the players in the lineup. We didn't really have enough talent to make it all work at its best. Once we do it won't be so easy to stop.
As for WCS he's not going to remain a player who doesn't have a clear role in the offense. In our system he will have a very clear role and he'll know the rules of the offense which will tell him what to do in terms of passing and motion. Our offense is completely different from what you saw him playing in college. The spacing is different as well. It's just a completely different game.
cool shot chart. Did you make it yourself from scratch or is their a program that does it?
Here's the only tidbit I could find about Stein's workout for the Knicks yesterday (from Berman in the Post):
Kentucky’s 7-foot junior defensive big man, Willie Cauley-Stein, worked out for the Knicks on Tuesday and a league source said it was one of his best workouts. He’s in the mix for the Knicks who have the No. 4 pick in the draft.
What is not to like about Stein? A lot of you love Anetekoumpo (Greek freak) who happens to be a 6'5" dude who can't shoot the ball, but plays with a lot of energy; why not Stein?
crzymdups wrote:Here's the only tidbit I could find about Stein's workout for the Knicks yesterday (from Berman in the Post):Kentucky’s 7-foot junior defensive big man, Willie Cauley-Stein, worked out for the Knicks on Tuesday and a league source said it was one of his best workouts. He’s in the mix for the Knicks who have the No. 4 pick in the draft.
Ha, his agent has essentially said the exact same thing after every team workout!
From an earlier one:
Kentucky associate coach Kenny Payne got a text from an NBA organization Sunday raving about how well Wildcats defensive center Willie Cauley-Stein shot during his workout there.
“They were floored,’’ Payne told The Post. “I forwarded the text to Willie. He said, ‘It’s amazing people are shocked I can shoot the ball.’ I told him, ‘You never showed it — only in spurts.’ ”
smackeddog wrote:crzymdups wrote:Here's the only tidbit I could find about Stein's workout for the Knicks yesterday (from Berman in the Post):Kentucky’s 7-foot junior defensive big man, Willie Cauley-Stein, worked out for the Knicks on Tuesday and a league source said it was one of his best workouts. He’s in the mix for the Knicks who have the No. 4 pick in the draft.
Ha, his agent has essentially said the exact same thing after every team workout!
From an earlier one:
Kentucky associate coach Kenny Payne got a text from an NBA organization Sunday raving about how well Wildcats defensive center Willie Cauley-Stein shot during his workout there.
“They were floored,’’ Payne told The Post. “I forwarded the text to Willie. He said, ‘It’s amazing people are shocked I can shoot the ball.’ I told him, ‘You never showed it — only in spurts.’ ”
Yes but we actually saw how he shot in these workouts and it was IMPRESSIVE. He doesn't look like a player who can't score. He looks like he's getting better and better. He's scoring with either hand in the Kings video which is a HUGE development.
wargames wrote:nixluva wrote:BRIGGS wrote:nixluva wrote:BRIGGS wrote:jbeachboy wrote:7 foot john wall
7 foot John Wall who scored 2 points his last game. I would think a 7 foot John wall would have atleast 30. I have some land I'm selling and I think it might be full of oil under ground--Ill give you a good price on it.
You really aren't seeing the big picture. Unlike Moz or Bogut, WCS won't have to come off the floor. He can defend against mobile smaller teams. WCS will also be fine in a fast paced offensive game cuz in our motion offense he has the quickness and agility to move without the ball and attack the basket. His jumper will come along and be good enough to be functional.
The idea tho is to be good enough on D to slow teams down. We can build a team on the base of WCS as the anchor to our defense. You can't hope to just outscore teams. We'll be fine offensively.
Every time WCS touches the ball he will be swarmed as a poor ball mover/ protector. Hes going to look great in these workouts where athleticism really brings you up. But his body of work over 3 years is very spotty. Hes looked great hes looked good hes looked disengaged hes looked awful--thats his 3 yr career. I can see it now Knicks find sports psychologist for Willie Stein--because hes going to need 1. IMHO Willie Stein is RISKIER than Porzingis.
We don't run the same offense as the Cavs!!! We run a motion offense where there is constant motion off the ball and spacing that forces teams to defend players in specific spots. It won't be so easy to just swarm any particular player because we will have cutters and players in motion all the time. The only issue is the talent of the players in the lineup. We didn't really have enough talent to make it all work at its best. Once we do it won't be so easy to stop.
As for WCS he's not going to remain a player who doesn't have a clear role in the offense. In our system he will have a very clear role and he'll know the rules of the offense which will tell him what to do in terms of passing and motion. Our offense is completely different from what you saw him playing in college. The spacing is different as well. It's just a completely different game.
cool shot chart. Did you make it yourself from scratch or is their a program that does it?
Thx. I just edited a basic Triangle diagram I found on the internet. The point was to show how the Knicks actually space the floor in the Triangle which is not the same as most teams. This overloading of the floor on one side is a big key to how you can play with 2 bigs in the post area. I could enhance the diagram with player movement on cuts, but you can find videos and diagrams of how that all works or just watch some Knicks game video. WCS will get a lot of dunks in this offense.
Whats interesting is
Steins college stats are very similar to D.Jordans stats from Texas A&M....In fact Steins stats are slightly better than D.Jordan's stats during their freshman year. D.Jordan was one and done, while Stein played another 2 years. So Stein will be coming into the NBA as a more mature player than DJ was, and with a better offensive game and better lateral quickness.
So if you are currently a DJ fan and see his impact on the Clippers, then you should be estatic about Steins potential, which is at least DJs level and higher (according to the stats).
http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/play...
blkexec wrote:Whats interesting is Steins college stats are very similar to D.Jordans stats from Texas A&M....In fact Steins stats are slightly better than D.Jordan's stats during their freshman year. D.Jordan was one and done, while Stein played another 2 years. So Stein will be coming into the NBA as a more mature player than DJ was, and with a better offensive game and better lateral quickness.So if you are currently a DJ fan and see his impact on the Clippers, then you should be estatic about Steins potential, which is at least DJs level and higher (according to the stats).
http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/play...
Yeah DJ has a major impact for his team. If he could score outside of dunks he'd be such a better player and that's how I see WCS. I see WCS as a hybrid of Tyson and Kmart but with more offensive ability. He's not as heavy as DeAndre which will hurt him with heavy Centers. He's more of a finesse big who can move around and give help. I'd let someone else defend post bigs and free WCS up to roam.
There's a tendency to not look at WCS as a Franchise type talent because of his relative low offensive output, but IMO he will improve his offense with more work and with a better role in the NBA game. I think he's just a late bloomer rather than a guy who just can't do it. There's a huge difference in my mind.
