Knicks · Dan Gadzuric 7-240 (page 2)

BRIGGS wrote:

blkexec wrote:

callmened wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:14-21 hes a good pick #4 is insane. Hes not skilled enough and too many other issues. If somoene is making apick of Willie Stein high their cognitive evaluation is simply off.

yikes. i wouldnt go that far.

This guy really hates WCS. He's created 4 threads on him. He was the first to even suggest the Knicks were planning on taking him. LMAO. I never even thought about him at 4 until Briggs created a thread about the knicks will pick him. Wow....some of us change like the weather. But thats ok....Thats what happens when you are a fan of a team with 5 holes to fill.

Phil will pick the best player available....Regardless of what we think. All we can do is go off of his tweets and articles. And from what I read, he prefers Towns over Ok4.....WCS over Kaminsky.

Defense over Offense

Two way over One way

But seriously, if he is that bad, then why are you trying so hard to convince us otherwise, with 4 different threads.....probably a 5th on the way!

Just because I thought the Knicks would take Stein a long time ago--does not mean I signed off on it. Hopefully they give careful thought to the present day NBA. Im not calling him bad--I dont think he is even close to pick #4. Also this thing that Kaminsky is bad defender--how many points did WCS have in that game?

Good try....I'm not Nix.....Not going to get into a Kaminsky vs WCS debate. Personally I like them both. Maybe because I'm a natural two way player myself. But I see potential in both players. I think both will improve their weaknesses, and have a great NBA career. Kaminsky did shock me in that championship game. He also shocked me during games he didn't show up, and Deker was the lead guy. It very hard to predict how players will be in the NBA, under a different coach / system. How they're game will mature. Do they continue to put in the same hard work when nobody is watching with millions of dollars in their account?

If Kaminsky can consistently improve his defense, that would be great. But I can't expect him to go up against offensively challenged teams like Kentucky in the NBA. So no, he's not going to all of a sudden be this shut down center in the NBA, because he held WCS to whatever points. How come nobody talks about Towns not being aggressive to demand the ball, all 4 quarters. Thats also a negative sign....He started to come on late, but that was too late. Can't put everything on the coach. But he's still going 1st overall.

This is all fun talk to hope and guess your best player becomes a star. But can't get too wrap up in it. It's one big gamble. Even the players themselves don't know. What I do know is I love when I hear somebody like Russell say he's the best player. That means he has that internal fire to be the best, and not just collect a check. I like how Kaminsky came back to college, instead of coming out early just to get paid. But my heart always lean towards long guys with cat like defense. WCS is probably the only center I know I could not drive by him, in my prime. His feet are too quick. Towns is the same way, but he looks slow next to WCS, and Towns is great on defense as well. Anybody that makes Towns look slow on defense, is a great defender.

I happen to agree with Briggs on this. WCS can't be considered at 4 that would be disastrous. He brings very little to the table on the offense and that was one of the reasons Chandler was sent off his inability to be effective on the offense.

The positive impact of WCS on our defense would outweigh the benefit of Kaminsky. Kaminsky doesn't put a dent in this team's ability to get stops. He's gonna hit some shots but we need a big that can improve this teams defense. WCS can anchor the D and help this team shut down PnR and scare anyone coming into the paint. We don't have that right now.

There's a reason Phil keeps talking about adding a Rim Protector and PnR stuffing big. He knows we need that to win. Having a Center that can guard 1-5 is a big deal. BRIGGS may not appreciate how important that is but Phil does and thank God he wants to do something about this teams defense.

Vmart wrote:I happen to agree with Briggs on this. WCS can't be considered at 4 that would be disastrous. He brings very little to the table on the offense and that was one of the reasons Chandler was sent off his inability to be effective on the offense.

It all depends....If Phil only sees 3 potential NBA stars, and the rest are solid NBA players / roll players. Then pick the guy you think will impact your team the most at 4. If Phil is a defensive guy, who believes in ball control (which is not Mudiay) and values defensive centers. Remember, Phil was a defensive roll player himself. So he might value Stein higher than some of us.

After the 3rd pick (assuming Russell is off the board)....there's about 7 guys who could be selected at pick #4.....

nixluva wrote:The positive impact of WCS on our defense would outweigh the benefit of Kaminsky. Kaminsky doesn't put a dent in this team's ability to get stops. He's gonna hit some shots but we need a big that can improve this teams defense. WCS can anchor the D and help this team shut down PnR and scare anyone coming into the paint. We don't have that right now.

There's a reason Phil keeps talking about adding a Rim Protector and PnR stuffing big. He knows we need that to win. Having a Center that can guard 1-5 is a big deal. BRIGGS may not appreciate how important that is but Phil does and thank God he wants to do something about this teams defense.

In this new age of NBA defense is getting a bit overrated by centers. Howard, Gasol, Jordan, Chandler all DPOY or candidates have been sent home add Duncan to that list too. Noah man the list is long.

Vmart wrote:

nixluva wrote:The positive impact of WCS on our defense would outweigh the benefit of Kaminsky. Kaminsky doesn't put a dent in this team's ability to get stops. He's gonna hit some shots but we need a big that can improve this teams defense. WCS can anchor the D and help this team shut down PnR and scare anyone coming into the paint. We don't have that right now.

There's a reason Phil keeps talking about adding a Rim Protector and PnR stuffing big. He knows we need that to win. Having a Center that can guard 1-5 is a big deal. BRIGGS may not appreciate how important that is but Phil does and thank God he wants to do something about this teams defense.

In this new age of NBA defense is getting a bit overrated by centers. Howard, Gasol, Jordan, Chandler all DPOY or candidates have been sent home add Duncan to that list too. Noah man the list is long.

That would be any knick fans favorite dream to get Duncan or Noah at pick #4.....Howard, Gasol? I would take that all day, even on Friday.

blkexec wrote:

Vmart wrote:

nixluva wrote:The positive impact of WCS on our defense would outweigh the benefit of Kaminsky. Kaminsky doesn't put a dent in this team's ability to get stops. He's gonna hit some shots but we need a big that can improve this teams defense. WCS can anchor the D and help this team shut down PnR and scare anyone coming into the paint. We don't have that right now.

There's a reason Phil keeps talking about adding a Rim Protector and PnR stuffing big. He knows we need that to win. Having a Center that can guard 1-5 is a big deal. BRIGGS may not appreciate how important that is but Phil does and thank God he wants to do something about this teams defense.

In this new age of NBA defense is getting a bit overrated by centers. Howard, Gasol, Jordan, Chandler all DPOY or candidates have been sent home add Duncan to that list too. Noah man the list is long.

That would be any knick fans favorite dream to get Duncan or Noah at pick #4.....Howard, Gasol? I would take that all day, even on Friday.

Yes and to think Noah wa Knicks pick. But you are adding a one dimensional player in WCS at 4 that won't be a smart move.

Vmart wrote:

nixluva wrote:The positive impact of WCS on our defense would outweigh the benefit of Kaminsky. Kaminsky doesn't put a dent in this team's ability to get stops. He's gonna hit some shots but we need a big that can improve this teams defense. WCS can anchor the D and help this team shut down PnR and scare anyone coming into the paint. We don't have that right now.

There's a reason Phil keeps talking about adding a Rim Protector and PnR stuffing big. He knows we need that to win. Having a Center that can guard 1-5 is a big deal. BRIGGS may not appreciate how important that is but Phil does and thank God he wants to do something about this teams defense.

In this new age of NBA defense is getting a bit overrated by centers. Howard, Gasol, Jordan, Chandler all DPOY or candidates have been sent home add Duncan to that list too. Noah man the list is long.

Both GS and Cleveland have shot blocking centers. What I Like about Phil's idea is that he wants a quick and agile Rim Protector who can guard in space against smaller, quicker players. That's what WCS represents. He's not your big slow shot blocker. He is effective away from the basket. When you put him on the floor with other plus defenders like a Carroll or Danny Green or Patrick Beverley you will have an outstanding defense.

WCS was the best defensive player in college how does that compare to gadzuric

Gadz was taken at 34 just like Early last year. Stein has flaws but this is going to far. Stein goes no later tan 11 in this draft.

CrushAlot wrote:Gadz was taken at 34 just like Early last year. Stein has flaws but this is going to far. Stein goes no later tan 11 in this draft.

I dont think Willie Stein will be anything much more than Dan Gadzuric--any team can draft him wherever they want.

mreinman wrote:WCS was the best defensive player in college how does that compare to gadzuric

Hes a very good defensive player.,

nixluva wrote:And still he is top 10 on most mock drafts. I think you're selling this guy short in terms of his value at the NBA level.

We're talking about opportunity costs here, of course.

We have our #4 to spend and a number of players to choose from.

Have to look at what Stein could give you, AND what you could lose if you took him and did not take another player. I used this way of comparing players in the thread about Thanasis.

Do you take the guy who a 7-8/10 on D and 3/10 on offense, or

a player who is a 6/10 on D and 7.5+/10 on offense?

And what if you start looking at upside. Stein, other than foul shooting and becoming a little stronger, has hardly developed his game despite having all those bigs to practice moves against. Three years at KU, the big man machine, and he does not have a recognizable offensive game or a go to move. Pick and roll and fast break dunks are not my idea of a signature move. You can call this negative... I call it reality.

I liked Tyson Chandler a lot, but watching his poor post-up game and lack of range was quite annoying- he had terrible footwork for the most part. When you compare Stein to Tyson, you can't forget to leave out the fact that Stein's "game" on offense is similar to Tyson's limited offensive repertoire.

Maybe Phil sees something amazing from Stein in workouts, maybe his scouts saw an entirely different player in KU practices, but I think he has enough games under his belt to establish the kind of player he is... the good, the bad, and his limitations.

WaltLongmire wrote:

nixluva wrote:And still he is top 10 on most mock drafts. I think you're selling this guy short in terms of his value at the NBA level.

We're talking about opportunity costs here, of course.

We have our #4 to spend and a number of players to choose from.

Have to look at what Stein could give you, AND what you could lose if you took him and did not take another player. I used this way of comparing players in the thread about Thanasis.

Do you take the guy who a 7-8/10 on D and 3/10 on offense, or

a player who is a 6/10 on D and 7.5+/10 on offense?

And what if you start looking at upside. Stein, other than foul shooting and becoming a little stronger, has hardly developed his game despite having all those bigs to practice moves against. Three years at KU, the big man machine, and he does not have a recognizable offensive game or a go to move. Pick and roll and fast break dunks are not my idea of a signature move. You can call this negative... I call it reality.

I liked Tyson Chandler a lot, but watching his poor post-up game and lack of range was quite annoying- he had terrible footwork for the most part. When you compare Stein to Tyson, you can't forget to leave out the fact that Stein's "game" on offense is similar to Tyson's limited offensive repertoire.

Maybe Phil sees something amazing from Stein in workouts, maybe his scouts saw an entirely different player in KU practices, but I think he has enough games under his belt to establish the kind of player he is... the good, the bad, and his limitations.

IMO WCS has a chance to actually improve his offense. I can see just little flashes of ability that he can improve on. He won't have to be spectacular in order to make a very positive impact. The College game and UK's awful offensive scheme wasn't doing WCS any favors either.

Here's the thing tho. I keep trying to hammer this home but WCS's impact on the rest of the team on D is like a PG on offense. It can impact an entire team. His presence and freak athletic ability would transform this team's defense and that's the entire point. It's the one area that can propel this team to more wins. We'll be able to get scoring much easier than finding another defensive big like him. You take WCS to establish the foundation of your team's defense and it's one side of the floor you know you can bring every night.

BRIGGS wrote:

1 bad game? Nixluva his career is littered with sub par games. You're a Johnny come lately on WCS you havent watched him for 3 years if you dont know how inconsistent he is--youre simply reading scouting reports. Anyone can write an article on why they think a player should go first.

You're not really a three year expert on him, because you liked him 6 months ago, I remember correctly.

The more you all try to fight it, the more likely WCS as a Knick will come to be

Regardless where we pick in the draft.....the knicks need a defensive anchor. If its WCS....fine. If its a FA.....fine. But thats an important need. Especially with all the PnR plays. WCS is equivalent to 3 defensive guards. He guards the rim and those guards that blow by anybody and everybody. His defense creates transition offense which never shows up in the box score.

IDK now BRIGGS. I see Whiteside more than gadz when comparing WCS

I'm not to worried about WCS I already made the pick for the Knicks see the Draft game thread.

This is why you want to draft WCS.

Vmart wrote:I'm not to worried about WCS I already made the pick for the Knicks see the Draft game thread.

I can live with this pick, but Denver and Miami got the guys I wanted (Porzingis and Kaminsky).