Knicks · Stein is there even 1 guy who is 7 feet 240 (page 2)

WCS is exactly what this team needs. He's not your typical defensive Center. He's basically a Free Safety roaming the court and helping shutdown PnR, 3pt shots and still being able to get back to the paint for rim protection. I've been reading all the negatives that have been mentioned and it's sad to see people reaching so hard.

1. WCS had a Defensive Rating of 80. Not a lot of scoring was happening with him around. He did this mostly covering PnR and helping against quick perimeter players. We all saw how he stayed with Jerian Grant

Very few players are as fast and laterally-quick as Cauley-Stein, much less big men. Only seven players have lane agility and sprint scores that combine for fewer seconds than him, and none of them measure over 6'4.

As more NBA teams switch pick and rolls and off-ball screens, many head coaches will feel comfortable allowing Cauley-Stein to defend the perimeter. Most big men get exposed if they're away from the paint. Cauley-Stein won't be, offering his NBA team unique versatility.

We've talked about his lateral quickness, but he can protect the rim too. If a team rotation is missed, he's swift enough to get to the other side of the court and long enough to block or at least deter the play. And he has even matured to the point where he resists the natural urge of a young shot blocker to leave his feet and commit fouls. These defensive attributes will all translate to the next level.

While it's true Cauley-Stein can't score in the low post or facilitate offense like his contemporaries, those draft prospects don't have near his ability on the defensive end. Scoring is sexy, but defense is also a necessity and Cauley-Stein brings that at the highest of levels.

2. WCS had a Box Plus Minus of 14.7 despite not getting a lot of offensive possessions. Just a few more PnR looks a game and he would've had an even higher +/-.
As it is he was a top 10 +/- player. The offense UK ran is congested and not optimal for WCS to excel. He'll have more room in the NBA to attack the basket. WCS scored at 72.5% at the rim and he does have a basic Jump Hook and Mid Range Jumper. There is potential for him to improve given his improvement in FT shooting each season from 37.2% to 61.7% this year.

The Knicks biggest issue was guarding the 3pt line. Now if they drafted WCS he would allow our perimeter defenders to not have to worry about penetration and they could focus on staying with their man on the perimeter. He makes everyones job that much easier. When you have someone who can cover so much ground and has the length and hops he has it would literally transform this team into a much improved defensive unit.

We didn't have anyone who could do this. If you think it wouldn't make a huge difference to have someone like WCS your bias is warping your brain.

I'm a believer in WCS - I just think his unique/elite combination of size/speed/athleticism will translate much better to the NBA game and its 24 second clock which creates more possessions.

A guy I haven't seen Willie compared to but who popped to mind is A bigger Kenyon Martin.
Kmart had an outstanding career as a very limited offensive player that lived off playing great D, hitting the boards, blocking some shots and putting down put backs &/or alley oop dunks.

If we could get a bigger better (healthier) version of Kmart - we'd probably be doing well for ourselves.

I like Willie in a trade down where we pick up a young vet and a slightly lower pick - maybe #6 or #7.

BRIGGS wrote:who plays PF in the nBA right with very raw offensive skills? Who am I comparing Stein to at PF? Blake Griffin or Tim Duncan--who is the guy we compare him to? Hes never been a great interior defender with his weak base

I think Kenyon Martin is a decent comp for what we could get out of WCS.

BRIGGS wrote:If it is possible Id trade down with the goal of getting Kaminsky Mickey and Fuzaro. I think Mickey by himself is a better defensive player than Stein but he also has an offensive game and that also has upside to it--AND hes a rebounder. With Mickey I can play Kaminsky at either 5 or 4. Mickey IMHO can guard 1-2-3-4-5. he can guard the ball coming up and hes long enough to both a 5 and everything in between. But he can score and he can be part of an offense.

We can get offense in FA - I really don't want big Frank.

BRIGGS wrote:If it is possible Id trade down with the goal of getting Kaminsky Mickey and Fuzaro. I think Mickey by himself is a better defensive player than Stein but he also has an offensive game and that also has upside to it--AND hes a rebounder. With Mickey I can play Kaminsky at either 5 or 4. Mickey IMHO can guard 1-2-3-4-5. he can guard the ball coming up and hes long enough to both a 5 and everything in between. But he can score and he can be part of an offense.

Wow, so Mickey will be a top 10 pick then right??

crzymdups wrote:7feet 240lb guys who don't put up big offensive numbers -

Andrew Bogut
Timofy Mozgov

oh hey weird those are the two starting centers in the NBA finals. Bogut is certainly ABLE to put up numbers, but his role doesn't call for it on GSW.

More guys:

DeAndre Jordan
Tyson Chandler

Rudy Gobert - Jazz improved a lot when they traded your boy Kanter and started Gobert.

Actually, I think that's a fairly valid way to look at this Kanter as Kaminsky, Gobert as Stein. Utah played much better once Kanter left. OKC missed the playoffs with Kanter putting up the best numbers of his career.

Offense at the center position is not a requirement for a winning in the NBA. Defense often is.

Kaminsky has much more offensive versatility than Kanter. He has the ability to spread out an offense and is a good passer.

Kanter's Utah stats on shot blocking and assists were abysmal, and that might be an understatement. Even at per/36M they were only .4BPG and .7APG. Kanter benefited a great deal because of Westbrook, I would think.

Hard to understand team dynamics- Kanter leaving opened up some space for Favors, who may have a break-out season barring injuries, and it gave others on Utah more offensive opportunities, but Kaminsky is not a selfish player, and he played on team with a disciplined offense and defense. I don't think he is comparable to Kanter.

Stein defending at the 5 might just be an issue, too. He has length, but its been proven that he has a base that can be pushed around. On that KU team Towns had more toughness down low- Stein is more of a help defender, IMO.

I don't think we are ever going to settle the Stein at #4 argument on this forum, but

for the sake of Briggs' health and sanity (and perhaps mine), we should all agree that Stein is not a good pick at #4.

newyorker4ever wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:If it is possible Id trade down with the goal of getting Kaminsky Mickey and Fuzaro. I think Mickey by himself is a better defensive player than Stein but he also has an offensive game and that also has upside to it--AND hes a rebounder. With Mickey I can play Kaminsky at either 5 or 4. Mickey IMHO can guard 1-2-3-4-5. he can guard the ball coming up and hes long enough to both a 5 and everything in between. But he can score and he can be part of an offense.

Wow, so Mickey will be a top 10 pick then right??

I like BRIGGS idea but I don't know how realistic it is that it would work out exactly how he wants. Giving up on WCS for the chance to get Kaminsky, Mickey and Fuzaro is a lot harder to accomplish that he makes it sound. It's not like we can guarantee we end up with all 3 players. If someone jumps up and takes Mickey then what?

I like Mickey. I think he's going to be a very good NBA player. Guys like him get overlooked because they're not considered tall enough for the PF/C position. He's got the length and athletic ability to be very successful in the NBA.

nixluva wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:If it is possible Id trade down with the goal of getting Kaminsky Mickey and Fuzaro. I think Mickey by himself is a better defensive player than Stein but he also has an offensive game and that also has upside to it--AND hes a rebounder. With Mickey I can play Kaminsky at either 5 or 4. Mickey IMHO can guard 1-2-3-4-5. he can guard the ball coming up and hes long enough to both a 5 and everything in between. But he can score and he can be part of an offense.

Wow, so Mickey will be a top 10 pick then right??

I like BRIGGS idea but I don't know how realistic it is that it would work out exactly how he wants. Giving up on WCS for the chance to get Kaminsky, Mickey and Fuzaro is a lot harder to accomplish that he makes it sound. It's not like we can guarantee we end up with all 3 players. If someone jumps up and takes Mickey then what?

I like Mickey. I think he's going to be a very good NBA player. Guys like him get overlooked because they're not considered tall enough for the PF/C position. He's got the length and athletic ability to be very successful in the NBA.

Have no idea if this plan would work, but

I'm already down for wanting Kaminsky.

Don't know enough about Mickey... don't mind smaller 4's, but is his shooting up to par? In the clips of LSU against Kentucky, he seems to have done well going inside against Stein, but then again, it was a Mickey highlights video, not Steins.

I've become a fan of Fuzaro. Would love to get him somehow.

Ed Davis is 6'10 240. You were hyping him pretty well way back when, no?