Knicks · How Golden Sate drafted their way to the championship (page 2)

Great NBA 4th picks..

Westbrook
Chris Paul
Chris Bosh
Conley
Rasheed Wallace..

Hey let's not draft these type of playrs but lets trade down to draft Kaminsky instead...

holfresh wrote:Great NBA 4th picks..

Westbrook
Chris Paul
Chris Bosh
Conley
Rasheed Wallace..

Hey let's not draft these type of playrs but lets trade down to draft Kaminsky instead...

This is empty debate.
No one can affect luck and no one know how this players will do in any other situation from were they get to.
Good player can became a bust with one team and gem with another.
No doubt get 1 or second pick better that 21 or 22 but diff in 1-3 slots is a mute point.

arkrud wrote:

holfresh wrote:Great NBA 4th picks..

Westbrook
Chris Paul
Chris Bosh
Conley
Rasheed Wallace..

Hey let's not draft these type of playrs but lets trade down to draft Kaminsky instead...

This is empty debate.
No one can affect luck and no one know how this players will do in any other situation from were they get to.
Good player can became a bust with one team and gem with another.
No doubt get 1 or second pick better that 21 or 22 but diff in 1-3 slots is a mute point.

Doesn't stop those reaching any straw to prove their point...

franco12 wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:2009--pick 7 Steph Curry
2011--pick 11 Klay Thompson
2012--pick 7 Harrison Barnes pick 30 Fetsus Elzsi pick 35 Dray Green

2 7 picks an 11 pick 30 and 35.--EXACTLY why I want to trade down and get more picks

How many premium free agents--zero.
In fact they do not even have 1 free agent signed on their roster for more than 2mm.

What does them getting lucky and getting great players at those picks have to do with us trading down in a draft that doesn't have players like that in it especially after the first few picks?? Who can we draft that can be a S.Curry or a K.Thompson or a D.Green in this draft?? There could be a S.Curry light in D.Russell but if we trade down then we'd obviously be putting ourselves even further away from a chance at getting him than we are now. Sorry but you need things to fall your way to end up with players like that and it's not just the talent they have but also their mentalities and the way they play together as a tight unit.

How do you know it doesnt have great players? What are you the starting SF for the Knicks wait usually pro basketball players say the stupidest sht about college players so let me take that back.

Briggs - he's absolutely right - the closest we have in this draft of getting a player like Steph or Klay is right at pick 4 with Mudiay or Russell or Okafor if they fall.

Anything further back, you are praying.

We picked right after Curry - how did that selection work out for us? I've forgotten who we picked and am too lazy to google it!

The only thing GS proves is keep your draft picks, don't trade them & be smart and hope for luck!

We picked the great Jordan Hill who is actually a free agent this year so maybe we'll bring him back.

BRIGGS wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:2009--pick 7 Steph Curry
2011--pick 11 Klay Thompson
2012--pick 7 Harrison Barnes pick 30 Fetsus Elzsi pick 35 Dray Green

2 7 picks an 11 pick 30 and 35.--EXACTLY why I want to trade down and get more picks

How many premium free agents--zero.
In fact they do not even have 1 free agent signed on their roster for more than 2mm.

What does them getting lucky and getting great players at those picks have to do with us trading down in a draft that doesn't have players like that in it especially after the first few picks?? Who can we draft that can be a S.Curry or a K.Thompson or a D.Green in this draft?? There could be a S.Curry light in D.Russell but if we trade down then we'd obviously be putting ourselves even further away from a chance at getting him than we are now. Sorry but you need things to fall your way to end up with players like that and it's not just the talent they have but also their mentalities and the way they play together as a tight unit.

How do you know it doesnt have great players? What are you the starting SF for the Knicks wait usually pro basketball players say the stupidest sht about college players so let me take that back.

Well then please do tell me what players will be a S.Curry and a K.Thompson and a D.Green??? All you can do is assume but come on now Briggs you know enough about the draft and prospects that there isn't those players in this draft. I'm sure a couple will turn out better than expected but you threw some big names out there with those three.

Im not looking for another Steph Curry there is only 1. I like Fuzaro kaminsky Mickey but this is the best draft that I can remember to 60+ this draft will be remembered for having a GREAT deal of great players. Thats how I see it. I dont even think the guys who like Stein are way way off I just dont want him at 4:)

Ok, so your comparison to S.Curry, K.Thompson and D.Green is Fuzaro, Kaminsky and Mickey. Yep that looks just like the way GS drafted their way to a championship.
I know i'm being sarcastic with this but you don't just fall into players like Curry, Thompson and Green. Those three are great players and you need a heck of a lot of luck to get three players like that and by the way........you also need draft picks which we only have one of this year and zero next year.

"[Lee] is becoming the Herb Williams of GS."

!!

Well, he'd need to resign at the end of next year for the vet minimum but, yes, he'd getting close to Herb Williams status. Sadly, I can't see Lee sticking around. Kerr just doesn't need him right now, even if he did resign for a song. On the right team, however, he's still a starter and I suspect he'll want to play instead of taking a huge pay cut and sitting on the bench.

newyorker4ever wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:2009--pick 7 Steph Curry
2011--pick 11 Klay Thompson
2012--pick 7 Harrison Barnes pick 30 Fetsus Elzsi pick 35 Dray Green

2 7 picks an 11 pick 30 and 35.--EXACTLY why I want to trade down and get more picks

How many premium free agents--zero.
In fact they do not even have 1 free agent signed on their roster for more than 2mm.

What does them getting lucky and getting great players at those picks have to do with us trading down in a draft that doesn't have players like that in it especially after the first few picks?? Who can we draft that can be a S.Curry or a K.Thompson or a D.Green in this draft?? There could be a S.Curry light in D.Russell but if we trade down then we'd obviously be putting ourselves even further away from a chance at getting him than we are now. Sorry but you need things to fall your way to end up with players like that and it's not just the talent they have but also their mentalities and the way they play together as a tight unit.

How do you know it doesnt have great players? What are you the starting SF for the Knicks wait usually pro basketball players say the stupidest sht about college players so let me take that back.

Well then please do tell me what players will be a S.Curry and a K.Thompson and a D.Green??? All you can do is assume but come on now Briggs you know enough about the draft and prospects that there isn't those players in this draft. I'm sure a couple will turn out better than expected but you threw some big names out there with those three.

Im not looking for another Steph Curry there is only 1. I like Fuzaro kaminsky Mickey but this is the best draft that I can remember to 60+ this draft will be remembered for having a GREAT deal of great players. Thats how I see it. I dont even think the guys who like Stein are way way off I just dont want him at 4:)

Ok, so your comparison to S.Curry, K.Thompson and D.Green is Fuzaro, Kaminsky and Mickey. Yep that looks just like the way GS drafted their way to a championship.
I know i'm being sarcastic with this but you don't just fall into players like Curry, Thompson and Green. Those three are great players and you need a heck of a lot of luck to get three players like that and by the way........you also need draft picks which we only have one of this year and zero next year.

If we played uptempo Id be more keen on Mudiay. But he is going to have to use his jumper more in the triangle and its going to be a lot for him to manage. Id rather go with trading down for very good players who are a tad older and fit the triangle systems better.

Kaminsky-Gasol
Fuzaro-Pippen
Mickey-Rodman

obviously each is his own different identity size skills etc.. but they are all good players and if we could pull it off and get more picks by trading down I think the cumulative effect for the team could be significantly higher with execution.

GS drafted well, as it turned out, and I am a proponent of building through the draft BUT, in their case, you also had teams who made certain poor decisions ahead of them.

Minny wants two PGs, but takes Rubio and Flynn over Curry.

Derrick Williams, Vesely, Biyombo, and Fredette were all taken before Thompson.

Robinson, on 4 teams, already, was taken ahead of Barnes in that draft.

The later picks turned out great- that is probably where you earn your money as a talent evaluator.

The further you pick from #1, though, the more opportunity you have to pick someone who might not work out.

Nothing is guaranteed, of course, but you have a lot of talent to chose from at #4.

You also have no guarantee that if you drop, you can get some of the guys you really want. If the Knicks had been at 5 in the Curry draft and traded down to 8 (and also get another pick in the draft), thinking Curry would be there anyway, they would have been screwed, and seen as being foolish for not getting the guy they really wanted when they had the chance.

Are there any teams with multiple 1st round picks? Doesn't seem to be any.

Would I do everything I can to get the OKC pick...sure.

Somebody threw out a 3 team deal with us, the Kings, and Denver, involving players and picks, and we ended up with 7 & 8. Would I do this...yup.

Just don't see many trade down situations which get us multiple picks in the first round, but also gives us a high enough early pick to make me happy.

Have to see how the workouts go...we Phil might really fall in love with someone- who knows.

Briggs--when have the Knicks ever drafted well enough to think they won't fk up a trade down?

Briggs has a point that need many spots to fill and MAYBE its better to get a few by trading down.
GS was not built over nite, nor was Curry the instant star he is now.

He was not an allstar until his 5th season. Usually thats 3 coaches and a new GM for us.
He missed all but 26 games one season.

And don't even think he would have NOT been inluded in the Melo trade, or used as cap fodder as was Jordan Hill.
So while we fawn over the latest and greatest and think "thats the guiding light franchise", go back and look at the progress.
Same for Trey Thompson, if he does not become a threat Teams can control Curry better. Curry is the by product of:

Patience
balanced roster
Good coach.

Briggs has a point, but there is no clear cut path to rightousness.

Nalod wrote:Briggs has a point that need many spots to fill and MAYBE its better to get a few by trading down.
GS was not built over nite, nor was Curry the instant star he is now.

He was not an allstar until his 5th season. Usually thats 3 coaches and a new GM for us.
He missed all but 26 games one season.

And don't even think he would have NOT been inluded in the Melo trade, or used as cap fodder as was Jordan Hill.
So while we fawn over the latest and greatest and think "thats the guiding light franchise", go back and look at the progress.
Same for Trey Thompson, if he does not become a threat Teams can control Curry better. Curry is the by product of:

Patience
balanced roster
Good coach.

Briggs has a point, but there is no clear cut path to rightousness.

His point has merit on its surface, but there's no reason to try to do it all this year. We should take the BPA, and look to make moves in the next couple of years to add pieces and picks. Moving Melo would go a LOOOONG way toward advancing our rebuild. If we pick an elite player (e.g., Mudiay) who's game is better suited to a different system, ADAPT and pivot. Perhaps we create a hybrid triangle that mixes in more PnR situations and fast break opportunities.

Let's not put on tunnel vision blinders like we are those glue horses on Central Park South. Let's take the BPA at our spot and focus on TALENT over depth. The guys above the top 5 are not going to be any better short terms than the vets we could sign.

Patience in this case will prove to be FAR more valuable than rushing to grab as many players in this draft as possible.

Moonangie wrote:

Nalod wrote:Briggs has a point that need many spots to fill and MAYBE its better to get a few by trading down.
GS was not built over nite, nor was Curry the instant star he is now.

He was not an allstar until his 5th season. Usually thats 3 coaches and a new GM for us.
He missed all but 26 games one season.

And don't even think he would have NOT been inluded in the Melo trade, or used as cap fodder as was Jordan Hill.
So while we fawn over the latest and greatest and think "thats the guiding light franchise", go back and look at the progress.
Same for Trey Thompson, if he does not become a threat Teams can control Curry better. Curry is the by product of:

Patience
balanced roster
Good coach.

Briggs has a point, but there is no clear cut path to rightousness.

His point has merit on its surface, but there's no reason to try to do it all this year. We should take the BPA, and look to make moves in the next couple of years to add pieces and picks. Moving Melo would go a LOOOONG way toward advancing our rebuild. If we pick an elite player (e.g., Mudiay) who's game is better suited to a different system, ADAPT and pivot. Perhaps we create a hybrid triangle that mixes in more PnR situations and fast break opportunities.

Let's not put on tunnel vision blinders like we are those glue horses on Central Park South. Let's take the BPA at our spot and focus on TALENT over depth. The guys above the top 5 are not going to be any better short terms than the vets we could sign.

Patience in this case will prove to be FAR more valuable than rushing to grab as many players in this draft as possible.

Exactly... and this exactly what I expect from Phil.
He was around enough to know that there are no fast fixes in this situation.
He may not realize at the beginning what a hole he is getting into but now he knows.
I will not be surprised if he will bolt especially with Isiah lurking in the rear.
But if he will elect to stay he will do it right and slow.
It will be no decent team in NY until Melo will hit the road with Phil or without.

WaltLongmire wrote:GS drafted well, as it turned out, and I am a proponent of building through the draft BUT, in their case, you also had teams who made certain poor decisions ahead of them.

Minny wants two PGs, but takes Rubio and Flynn over Curry.

Derrick Williams, Vesely, Biyombo, and Fredette were all taken before Thompson.

Robinson, on 4 teams, already, was taken ahead of Barnes in that draft.

The later picks turned out great- that is probably where you earn your money as a talent evaluator.

The further you pick from #1, though, the more opportunity you have to pick someone who might not work out.

Nothing is guaranteed, of course, but you have a lot of talent to chose from at #4.

You also have no guarantee that if you drop, you can get some of the guys you really want. If the Knicks had been at 5 in the Curry draft and traded down to 8 (and also get another pick in the draft), thinking Curry would be there anyway, they would have been screwed, and seen as being foolish for not getting the guy they really wanted when they had the chance.

Are there any teams with multiple 1st round picks? Doesn't seem to be any.

Would I do everything I can to get the OKC pick...sure.

Somebody threw out a 3 team deal with us, the Kings, and Denver, involving players and picks, and we ended up with 7 & 8. Would I do this...yup.

Just don't see many trade down situations which get us multiple picks in the first round, but also gives us a high enough early pick to make me happy.

Have to see how the workouts go...we Phil might really fall in love with someone- who knows.

Thank you for pointing out some of the teams who failed. People tend to take the 1 or 2 examples of great team building and make them sound like the full-proof plan. The realty is, for every 1 example, they are 5 or 6 examples of teams who tried it the same way and failed miserably. Sure we haven't succeeded either, but we had a playoff run (were considered a contender for a sort period of time), and that is a lot further than some of the teams who have tried to build thru the draft the past 10 years the same way GS did.

If the Pick is either Russell or Mudiay they will be playing the role that Shved played. That is the attacking, scoring guard role. Most often they'll be in the 2 man game on the weak side of the floor where a guard has room to attack the basket, Give and Go, PnR or Spot up for a jumper. It's not purely a jump shooting role so both players should be able to find success in that role.

The Knicks still have a chance to find draft success. The story isn't even close to being written yet. The Knicks went into last draft with no picks and managed to add some. We'll see what the end up doing with this #4 pick, but it's a good spot to be in. They just have to make it count.

How San Antonio drafted their way to a dynasty:

Keep your pick, draft a player and develop him with the hope he becomes the cornerstone. Tim Duncan.

Paul George went 10th I believe. You most certainly don't need the #1 pick to find a star. I don't consider #4 a waste of a year of tanking like half of our fan base does. Westbrook went 4, Wade went 5, Lillard 6. Thabeet and Darko went 2 and Bennett and Bargs #1.

As far as trading down, I'd be careful how far you are moving down though.

Knixkik wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

holfresh wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:2009--pick 7 Steph Curry
2011--pick 11 Klay Thompson
2012--pick 7 Harrison Barnes pick 30 Fetsus Elzsi pick 35 Dray Green

2 7 picks an 11 pick 30 and 35.--EXACTLY why I want to trade down and get more picks

How many premium free agents--zero.
In fact they do not even have 1 free agent signed on their roster for more than 2mm.

David Lee, Andre Iguodala, Livingston..The fact that you trade down does't mean your results will turn out to be like GS..

Those are trades. The guys above are the team.

They were sign and trades, which were done thru free agency.

Iggy was a free agent as well, and he was done through a sign and trade. 'm sure Shuan Livingston wasnt drafted by them either and make more than 2 mil.

BRIGGS wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:2009--pick 7 Steph Curry
2011--pick 11 Klay Thompson
2012--pick 7 Harrison Barnes pick 30 Fetsus Elzsi pick 35 Dray Green

2 7 picks an 11 pick 30 and 35.--EXACTLY why I want to trade down and get more picks

How many premium free agents--zero.
In fact they do not even have 1 free agent signed on their roster for more than 2mm.

What does them getting lucky and getting great players at those picks have to do with us trading down in a draft that doesn't have players like that in it especially after the first few picks?? Who can we draft that can be a S.Curry or a K.Thompson or a D.Green in this draft?? There could be a S.Curry light in D.Russell but if we trade down then we'd obviously be putting ourselves even further away from a chance at getting him than we are now. Sorry but you need things to fall your way to end up with players like that and it's not just the talent they have but also their mentalities and the way they play together as a tight unit.

How do you know it doesnt have great players? What are you the starting SF for the Knicks wait usually pro basketball players say the stupidest sht about college players so let me take that back.

Well then please do tell me what players will be a S.Curry and a K.Thompson and a D.Green??? All you can do is assume but come on now Briggs you know enough about the draft and prospects that there isn't those players in this draft. I'm sure a couple will turn out better than expected but you threw some big names out there with those three.

Im not looking for another Steph Curry there is only 1. I like Fuzaro kaminsky Mickey but this is the best draft that I can remember to 60+ this draft will be remembered for having a GREAT deal of great players. Thats how I see it. I dont even think the guys who like Stein are way way off I just dont want him at 4:)

I don't want Stein at 4 either. I don't really want Mudiay at all.

Would you trade Melo to Houston for 18, 32 if you had to take back some of their contracts.. Ariza, Papa, TJones... Hard to make the numbers work... Let them have a big three of Harden Melo Howard...

Those contracts are in the money next year when the cap increases... 18 and 32 would get you Fuzaro, Mickey...

JrZyHuStLa wrote:How San Antonio drafted their way to a dynasty:

Keep your pick, draft a player and develop him with the hope he becomes the cornerstone. Tim Duncan.

They were lucky too, though.

What do these numbers show you:

San Antonio Wins

1993-4 55
1994-5 62
1995-6 59
1996-7 20
1997-8 56

This was not a team that was bad enough to deserve the #1 pick. This was a freak thing. They have been consistent and have drafted wisely, but Duncan is the constant, and getting him was shear luck, and deliberate tanking, if you want to look at conspiracies.

Odds are they are a very competitive team, but their luck in getting Duncan cannot be overlooked.

The #1 reason GSW are in the finals is the damn coach, a coach who ran a system that catered to his players strengths.

We run a system that caters to the coach

knicks1248 wrote:The #1 reason GSW are in the finals is the damn coach, a coach who ran a system that catered to his players strengths.

We run a system that caters to the coach

Kerr is a big part, but I doubt he'd coach the opening Knicks lineup to the finals. I think they would have been better though.