Knicks · Knicks need to bring in Kaminsky to workout (page 2)

StarksEwing1 wrote:I honestly do like the kid BUT not as a top pick. If we had another pick in the mid round then it would be a good fit

I'm a fan as well and would love to have him on the Knicks but not at the 4th pick cause although he has plenty of talent there will be players that fit what we need more and have more talent at the 4th pick. If we trade down in the draft then i'm all for Kaminsky if that's who Phil wants.

newyorker4ever wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:I honestly do like the kid BUT not as a top pick. If we had another pick in the mid round then it would be a good fit

I'm a fan as well and would love to have him on the Knicks but not at the 4th pick cause although he has plenty of talent there will be players that fit what we need more and have more talent at the 4th pick. If we trade down in the draft then i'm all for Kaminsky if that's who Phil wants.

yeah its nothing against kaminsky its just how it is. There is a lot of big talent in this draft which is why i dont want to trade

I don't know who the Knicks should draft (a lot depends on who their off season FA targets are) but I will say this about Kaminsky. His game has improved EVERY YEAR he has been in College.

I wouldn't be upset if the Knicks drafted him. If the Knicks draft Kaminsky and decided to dump their efforts in pursuing Monroe and go after Butler instead, I would consider that a very good off season.

Swishfm3 wrote:I don't know who the Knicks should draft (a lot depends on who their off season FA targets are) but I will say this about Kaminsky. His game has improved EVERY YEAR he has been in College.

I wouldn't be upset if the Knicks drafted him. If the Knicks draft Kaminsky and decided to dump their efforts in pursuing Monroe and go after Butler instead, I would consider that a very good off season.

4 is too high for kaminsky so unless its a trade back i dont see it happening. I dont see phil passing on mudiay winslow or even stein over kaminsky

BRIGGS wrote:

nixluva wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

nixluva wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Against ANY prospect from Stein Mudiay Russell and let skills and play tell the tale . IMHO you are looking at Pau Gasol with more range and it would be an utter mistake not to let him go head to head or 2-2 or whatever the setting becuase I'm confidant he will dominate his peers of the draft. Even if the Knicks have a couple of 4s or 5 possibilities in free agency NOT 1 of them will be superior to Frank

I have a long history of making many good singular calls . Yes there are many many quality prospects through the draft but I'll bet my bottom dollar that Frank Kaminsky will be the best pick at 4 hey let him go 1-1 with Carmelo let's see what happens forget the other rookies I'm that confidant in frank He's tough skilled and a winner

There's more to winning basketball than individual skills. I've said this before but Kevin Love is a perfect example of what I think Kaminsky is. Great scorer but in terms of overall impact on a team it's not as much as you would think. There's only one ball and IMO a player like WCS has more impact on his team overall because he doesn't need the ball to have a major impact. Kaminsky might dazzle you in one on one match ups but that doesn't necessarily have the wanted impact in terms of Team Ball.

I want WCS because of how he'd impact the team as a whole defensive unit. He actually helps everyone and he's doing it without needing plays called or the ball in his hands. You need scoring but you need to get stops too. In the NBA getting stops is one of the hardest things to do. Any edge you can give your team in that regard is worth gold.

When WCS was on the floor his team allowed 82 ppp and when he wasn't on the floor the team allowed 90 ppp. If he can continue to refine his offense just enough he'll always be a net positive player. That defense can be something you can depend on even if the team is having a poor shooting night.

I don't think Frank is anything like love. I consider Frank a highly skilled chemistry piece love a singular ineffiecnt talent

Last year before this Cavs experiment Love's TS% was 59.1, WS/48 of .245 and he had a PER of 26.9. In what way is he inefficient?

I don't think Kevin love is a winning type player. Frank Kaminsky led a fairly talented team to back to back final fours. I think he fits a newer model of the nba. He's a face four who can shift to 5 at 7-1 with play making skills handle mobility and he tries to make the right team play on o or d. I like him he's a winner

I'm seeing Kevin Love when I look at Kaminsky. I think his impact will be pretty much the same. Lots of efficient scoring but not really moving the needle much in terms of wins. The only real difference is Kaminsky can tout being 7', tho not particularly long or athletic. Other than that I don't see him making any more of an impact than Love. There's nothing wrong with his scoring talent. Kaminsky should be a worthy NBA player.

nixluva wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

nixluva wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

nixluva wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Against ANY prospect from Stein Mudiay Russell and let skills and play tell the tale . IMHO you are looking at Pau Gasol with more range and it would be an utter mistake not to let him go head to head or 2-2 or whatever the setting becuase I'm confidant he will dominate his peers of the draft. Even if the Knicks have a couple of 4s or 5 possibilities in free agency NOT 1 of them will be superior to Frank

I have a long history of making many good singular calls . Yes there are many many quality prospects through the draft but I'll bet my bottom dollar that Frank Kaminsky will be the best pick at 4 hey let him go 1-1 with Carmelo let's see what happens forget the other rookies I'm that confidant in frank He's tough skilled and a winner

There's more to winning basketball than individual skills. I've said this before but Kevin Love is a perfect example of what I think Kaminsky is. Great scorer but in terms of overall impact on a team it's not as much as you would think. There's only one ball and IMO a player like WCS has more impact on his team overall because he doesn't need the ball to have a major impact. Kaminsky might dazzle you in one on one match ups but that doesn't necessarily have the wanted impact in terms of Team Ball.

I want WCS because of how he'd impact the team as a whole defensive unit. He actually helps everyone and he's doing it without needing plays called or the ball in his hands. You need scoring but you need to get stops too. In the NBA getting stops is one of the hardest things to do. Any edge you can give your team in that regard is worth gold.

When WCS was on the floor his team allowed 82 ppp and when he wasn't on the floor the team allowed 90 ppp. If he can continue to refine his offense just enough he'll always be a net positive player. That defense can be something you can depend on even if the team is having a poor shooting night.

I don't think Frank is anything like love. I consider Frank a highly skilled chemistry piece love a singular ineffiecnt talent

Last year before this Cavs experiment Love's TS% was 59.1, WS/48 of .245 and he had a PER of 26.9. In what way is he inefficient?

I don't think Kevin love is a winning type player. Frank Kaminsky led a fairly talented team to back to back final fours. I think he fits a newer model of the nba. He's a face four who can shift to 5 at 7-1 with play making skills handle mobility and he tries to make the right team play on o or d. I like him he's a winner

I'm seeing Kevin Love when I look at Kaminsky. I think his impact will be pretty much the same. Lots of efficient scoring but not really moving the needle much in terms of wins. The only real difference is Kaminsky can tout being 7', tho not particularly long or athletic. Other than that I don't see him making any more of an impact than Love. There's nothing wrong with his scoring talent. Kaminsky should be a worthy NBA player.

if kaminsky was anywhere near as good as love it would be surprising.

Swishfm3 wrote:I don't know who the Knicks should draft (a lot depends on who their off season FA targets are) but I will say this about Kaminsky. His game has improved EVERY YEAR he has been in College.

I wouldn't be upset if the Knicks drafted him. If the Knicks draft Kaminsky and decided to dump their efforts in pursuing Monroe and go after Butler instead, I would consider that a very good off season.

Watch what happens Kaminsky will be better than any of mill sap Tobias Harris or Monroe. Towns okafor and Kaminsky will make a rapid mark in this league . I like the draft several all stars. I don't think this year you will have many losers per Se. I'm fearful of some of that middle of rd 1 but not many. I'm sure most teams are happy with their positioning. Some guys like turner you will really have to wait on if you take him high. And no guarantee there either .

StarksEwing1 wrote:

Swishfm3 wrote:I don't know who the Knicks should draft (a lot depends on who their off season FA targets are) but I will say this about Kaminsky. His game has improved EVERY YEAR he has been in College.

I wouldn't be upset if the Knicks drafted him. If the Knicks draft Kaminsky and decided to dump their efforts in pursuing Monroe and go after Butler instead, I would consider that a very good off season.

4 is too high for kaminsky so unless its a trade back i dont see it happening. I dont see phil passing on mudiay winslow or even stein over kaminsky

I don't think 4 is that high at all to be honest with you.

And seriously...why is everyone is high on Mudiay? Not knocking the guy but, aside from some youtube clips, NO ONE HAS SEEN THIS GUY PLAY!!! He is the biggest question mark of them all if you ask me.

Not completely sold on Stein (although he does remind of me Camby). I just wish he was able to show what he can do on the offensive side of the ball this past season.

And as far as Winslow, kid is fantastic but I feel we had a similar player in Shumpert that we just let go. Plus, SF/SG are a lot easier to find than big men that can move like Kaminsky.

StarksEwing1 wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:I honestly do like the kid BUT not as a top pick. If we had another pick in the mid round then it would be a good fit

I'm a fan as well and would love to have him on the Knicks but not at the 4th pick cause although he has plenty of talent there will be players that fit what we need more and have more talent at the 4th pick. If we trade down in the draft then i'm all for Kaminsky if that's who Phil wants.

yeah its nothing against kaminsky its just how it is. There is a lot of big talent in this draft which is why i dont want to trade

See i actually don't mind if we trade cause the right trade could do wonders for us but my problem is do i trust that Phil can make the right trade with how little experience he has negotiating with other GM's which is a skill that not all GM's are great at. If you're the team that's receiving the phone calls from the other GM's then you obviously have something they want and you need to holdout with them until the last minute to get the best offer you can which i'm sure can get hard to do cause you're gonna get nervous that you lose them and they bow out so i would love to see Phil get a great trade that favors us greatly to get my confidence for Phil back up. I also have no problem staying at #4 and Phil drafting the player that best fits what he feels Fisher needs in his system. I'll be sweating bullets when the draft starts and when we pick and for the rest of the draft waiting to see if we trade whoever we draft or not and hoping we find a way to trade back into the draft in the 1st round or the 2nd round.

Swishfm3 wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

Swishfm3 wrote:I don't know who the Knicks should draft (a lot depends on who their off season FA targets are) but I will say this about Kaminsky. His game has improved EVERY YEAR he has been in College.

I wouldn't be upset if the Knicks drafted him. If the Knicks draft Kaminsky and decided to dump their efforts in pursuing Monroe and go after Butler instead, I would consider that a very good off season.

4 is too high for kaminsky so unless its a trade back i dont see it happening. I dont see phil passing on mudiay winslow or even stein over kaminsky

I don't think 4 is that high at all to be honest with you.

And seriously...why is everyone is high on Mudiay? Not knocking the guy but, aside from some youtube clips, NO ONE HAS SEEN THIS GUY PLAY!!! He is the biggest question mark of them all if you ask me.

Not completely sold on Stein (although he does remind of me Camby). I just wish he was able to show what he can do on the offensive side of the ball this past season.

And as far as Winslow, kid is fantastic but I feel we had a similar player in Shumpert that we just let go. Plus, SF/SG are a lot easier to find than big men that can move like Kaminsky.

If you're considering WCS you're doing it because he has a verifiable impact on your team defensively. It's not about his own personal scoring. It's about how he improves your team defensively. If WCS does actually improve offensively you have an even better value for a defensive anchor who can also be functional in your offense.
You're not going to find a better defensive prospect in this draft.

WCS has everything from size, length, lateral quickness, hands, full court speed and finishing over the top of the defense. He scored at 72% at the rim and 1.4 ppp in transition. He was also a top Steals man. People need to stop being so focused on Offense and realize just how much of an impact a 7' help defender can have on your entire team. As I wrote earlier his team allowed only 82 ppp with him on the floor verses 90 ppp when he wasn't. That's a pretty clear impact and i'm not even talking about other areas he helps.

nixluva wrote:

Swishfm3 wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

Swishfm3 wrote:I don't know who the Knicks should draft (a lot depends on who their off season FA targets are) but I will say this about Kaminsky. His game has improved EVERY YEAR he has been in College.

I wouldn't be upset if the Knicks drafted him. If the Knicks draft Kaminsky and decided to dump their efforts in pursuing Monroe and go after Butler instead, I would consider that a very good off season.

4 is too high for kaminsky so unless its a trade back i dont see it happening. I dont see phil passing on mudiay winslow or even stein over kaminsky

I don't think 4 is that high at all to be honest with you.

And seriously...why is everyone is high on Mudiay? Not knocking the guy but, aside from some youtube clips, NO ONE HAS SEEN THIS GUY PLAY!!! He is the biggest question mark of them all if you ask me.

Not completely sold on Stein (although he does remind of me Camby). I just wish he was able to show what he can do on the offensive side of the ball this past season.

And as far as Winslow, kid is fantastic but I feel we had a similar player in Shumpert that we just let go. Plus, SF/SG are a lot easier to find than big men that can move like Kaminsky.

If you're considering WCS you're doing it because he has a verifiable impact on your team defensively. It's not about his own personal scoring. It's about how he improves your team defensively. If WCS does actually improve offensively you have an even better value for a defensive anchor who can also be functional in your offense.
You're not going to find a better defensive prospect in this draft.

WCS has everything from size, length, lateral quickness, hands, full court speed and finishing over the top of the defense. He scored at 72% at the rim and 1.4 ppp in transition. He was also a top Steals man. People need to stop being so focused on Offense and realize just how much of an impact a 7' help defender can have on your entire team. As I wrote earlier his team allowed only 82 ppp with him on the floor verses 90 ppp when he wasn't. That's a pretty clear impact and i'm not even talking about other areas he helps.

How does an nba team not care about a c with no post game? No proven in game jump shot? Gets pushed around because of a weak base doesn't show up for gmaes

BRIGGS wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Swishfm3 wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

Swishfm3 wrote:I don't know who the Knicks should draft (a lot depends on who their off season FA targets are) but I will say this about Kaminsky. His game has improved EVERY YEAR he has been in College.

I wouldn't be upset if the Knicks drafted him. If the Knicks draft Kaminsky and decided to dump their efforts in pursuing Monroe and go after Butler instead, I would consider that a very good off season.

4 is too high for kaminsky so unless its a trade back i dont see it happening. I dont see phil passing on mudiay winslow or even stein over kaminsky

I don't think 4 is that high at all to be honest with you.

And seriously...why is everyone is high on Mudiay? Not knocking the guy but, aside from some youtube clips, NO ONE HAS SEEN THIS GUY PLAY!!! He is the biggest question mark of them all if you ask me.

Not completely sold on Stein (although he does remind of me Camby). I just wish he was able to show what he can do on the offensive side of the ball this past season.

And as far as Winslow, kid is fantastic but I feel we had a similar player in Shumpert that we just let go. Plus, SF/SG are a lot easier to find than big men that can move like Kaminsky.

If you're considering WCS you're doing it because he has a verifiable impact on your team defensively. It's not about his own personal scoring. It's about how he improves your team defensively. If WCS does actually improve offensively you have an even better value for a defensive anchor who can also be functional in your offense.
You're not going to find a better defensive prospect in this draft.

WCS has everything from size, length, lateral quickness, hands, full court speed and finishing over the top of the defense. He scored at 72% at the rim and 1.4 ppp in transition. He was also a top Steals man. People need to stop being so focused on Offense and realize just how much of an impact a 7' help defender can have on your entire team. As I wrote earlier his team allowed only 82 ppp with him on the floor verses 90 ppp when he wasn't. That's a pretty clear impact and i'm not even talking about other areas he helps.

How does an nba team not care about a c with no post game? No proven in game jump shot? Gets pushed around because of a weak base doesn't show up for gmaes

You're overstating WCS's negatives. His strengths far outweigh his weaknesses. That's how you end up being a top prospect. You're not drafting WCS to only be a big body in the low post against big C's. You want him for his range on D and being able to deal with teams that don't feature a low post big but rather, teams that play high PnR heavy offense. We would be asking him to do exactly what he was already doing at Kentucky. There are so few true low post Centers in the league and few teams that really play a lot of low post basketball. You know this but you're acting like you're dense just because of your bias for Kaminsky.

Why not? Bring them all in for a workout

BRIGGS wrote:

nixluva wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Against ANY prospect from Stein Mudiay Russell and let skills and play tell the tale . IMHO you are looking at Pau Gasol with more range and it would be an utter mistake not to let him go head to head or 2-2 or whatever the setting becuase I'm confidant he will dominate his peers of the draft. Even if the Knicks have a couple of 4s or 5 possibilities in free agency NOT 1 of them will be superior to Frank

I have a long history of making many good singular calls . Yes there are many many quality prospects through the draft but I'll bet my bottom dollar that Frank Kaminsky will be the best pick at 4 hey let him go 1-1 with Carmelo let's see what happens forget the other rookies I'm that confidant in frank He's tough skilled and a winner

There's more to winning basketball than individual skills. I've said this before but Kevin Love is a perfect example of what I think Kaminsky is. Great scorer but in terms of overall impact on a team it's not as much as you would think. There's only one ball and IMO a player like WCS has more impact on his team overall because he doesn't need the ball to have a major impact. Kaminsky might dazzle you in one on one match ups but that doesn't necessarily have the wanted impact in terms of Team Ball.

I want WCS because of how he'd impact the team as a whole defensive unit. He actually helps everyone and he's doing it without needing plays called or the ball in his hands. You need scoring but you need to get stops too. In the NBA getting stops is one of the hardest things to do. Any edge you can give your team in that regard is worth gold.

When WCS was on the floor his team allowed 82 ppp and when he wasn't on the floor the team allowed 90 ppp. If he can continue to refine his offense just enough he'll always be a net positive player. That defense can be something you can depend on even if the team is having a poor shooting night.

I don't think Frank is anything like love. I consider Frank a highly skilled chemistry piece love a singular ineffiecnt talent

I agree, Love is not the same type of player. Kaminsky is an inside out type of dude, while love operates a lot more on the wing.

Knicks1969 wrote:Why not? Bring them all in for a workout

That's right bring in stein and Kaminsky at the same time or anyone else in the draft. My guess is that frank does very well even in 1-1 with a better athlete. I think Kaminsky can take stein in the post off the dribble outside etc

BRIGGS wrote:

Knicks1969 wrote:Why not? Bring them all in for a workout

That's right bring in stein and Kaminsky at the same time or anyone else in the draft. My guess is that frank does very well even in 1-1 with a better athlete. I think Kaminsky can take stein in the post off the dribble outside etc

Basketball is played as a team. That one on one crap doesn't mean a thing. I know what both dudes can do; and I would welcome a chance to draft both players. Here is a question for you BRIGGS: if Stein were allowed to shoot the ball as he did in the video, you would still feel the same way about Kaminsky? You would still think Kaminsky is the better player???

BRIGGS wrote:

Knicks1969 wrote:Why not? Bring them all in for a workout

That's right bring in stein and Kaminsky at the same time or anyone else in the draft. My guess is that frank does very well even in 1-1 with a better athlete. I think Kaminsky can take stein in the post off the dribble outside etc

the smart thing for the knicks to do would be to bring in all players that could help their team. im not sure kaminsky will be a star but he can help this team. but the knicks arent that smart. see thats the assumption ppl make. lol. the knicks WILL NOT draft kaminsky. youre simply wasting your time thinking otherwise.

BRIGGS wrote:

nixluva wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Against ANY prospect from Stein Mudiay Russell and let skills and play tell the tale . IMHO you are looking at Pau Gasol with more range and it would be an utter mistake not to let him go head to head or 2-2 or whatever the setting becuase I'm confidant he will dominate his peers of the draft. Even if the Knicks have a couple of 4s or 5 possibilities in free agency NOT 1 of them will be superior to Frank

I have a long history of making many good singular calls . Yes there are many many quality prospects through the draft but I'll bet my bottom dollar that Frank Kaminsky will be the best pick at 4 hey let him go 1-1 with Carmelo let's see what happens forget the other rookies I'm that confidant in frank He's tough skilled and a winner

There's more to winning basketball than individual skills. I've said this before but Kevin Love is a perfect example of what I think Kaminsky is. Great scorer but in terms of overall impact on a team it's not as much as you would think. There's only one ball and IMO a player like WCS has more impact on his team overall because he doesn't need the ball to have a major impact. Kaminsky might dazzle you in one on one match ups but that doesn't necessarily have the wanted impact in terms of Team Ball.

I want WCS because of how he'd impact the team as a whole defensive unit. He actually helps everyone and he's doing it without needing plays called or the ball in his hands. You need scoring but you need to get stops too. In the NBA getting stops is one of the hardest things to do. Any edge you can give your team in that regard is worth gold.

When WCS was on the floor his team allowed 82 ppp and when he wasn't on the floor the team allowed 90 ppp. If he can continue to refine his offense just enough he'll always be a net positive player. That defense can be something you can depend on even if the team is having a poor shooting night.

I don't think Frank is anything like love. I consider Frank a highly skilled chemistry piece love a singular ineffiecnt talent

inefficient?

You are really out to lunch?

Knicks1969 wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

Knicks1969 wrote:Why not? Bring them all in for a workout

That's right bring in stein and Kaminsky at the same time or anyone else in the draft. My guess is that frank does very well even in 1-1 with a better athlete. I think Kaminsky can take stein in the post off the dribble outside etc

Basketball is played as a team. That one on one crap doesn't mean a thing. I know what both dudes can do; and I would welcome a chance to draft both players. Here is a question for you BRIGGS: if Stein were allowed to shoot the ball as he did in the video, you would still feel the same way about Kaminsky? You would still think Kaminsky is the better player???

It is a team sport, but the 1/1 might expose Stein as a workout warrior, who can't hit shots when closely guarded.

Here are questions for you to chew on:

Why do you think the Wisconsin coach let Kaminsky take about 200 3s over his final two years in college?

Why do you think Kaminsky was given so much responsibility his final two years"

If you are an intelligent coach and one of your players shows great improvement in a particular skill, will you try to incorporate that skill into your game plan?

Why was Stein not allowed to take a single 3 in his 3 year Kentucky career?

Why was Stein's role on KU essentially the same for all three years? Why was Stein not given more responsibility on the offensive end?

If you are a coach and one of your players does not develop certain skills during the years he is with you, will you put that player into situations where his lack of skill will hurt your team's chance to win?

Just wondering.

again... kaminsky came out as a senior.... he's older than a lot of these guys by 3 years.... he's older than stein by a year... that matters a lot in the draft....

being slightly better than these guys now doesn't mean much...

FistOfOakley wrote:again... kaminsky came out as a senior.... he's older than a lot of these guys by 3 years.... he's older than stein by a year... that matters a lot in the draft....

being slightly better than these guys now doesn't mean much...

Come on, man- you can use the age thing with Kaminsky and Winslow, Russell, Porzingis, etc., but not with Kaminsky and Stein.

What you should look at is how each progressed during their years in college, and the difference is beyond night and day.

Honestly, look at their respective stats and tell me which showed player growth and which was statistically stagnant.