In two games (both OT) Lebron James already has as many assists and rebounds as Michael Jordan did in the entire 1998 Finals (6 games.)
LeBron is carrying Mozgov, Shumpert and JR Smith through The Finals.
Let that sink in a moment.
I guess you don't realize it but Lebron is the greatest player in the world and NO other player in the NBA could do what he's doing. Not Durant, not Duncan, not Curry, not Harden and no not Melo........NO OTHER PLAYER IN THE NBA!!!!!! So to try to find another way to hate on Melo is ridiculous.
Durant can if he applies himself
Im not even sure this is Melo hate as Melo is not in the same conversation as Jordan or Lebron. In fact, he should not even be a synapse until he wins an MVP!
How is Lebron if on the court for more than 60 games a season not the MVP?
I have gone from a full Lebron hater to utmost respect for what he is doing. Lebron got hacked numerous times with no calls and maybe that balances out some of the drama but reality might be he is so strong he has to sell the fouls sometimes. Iggy was fouling him like crazy.
The iso game was ugly and Lebron started to lose his legs. Its obvious the man has no trust for his teammates at this point where Michael had much better team around him.
This is not to diminish Jordans PERFECTION in the finals and the GOAT label.
As a player Lebron is a different player capable of doing more than Jordan. One can say the same about Jordan over Bill Russell but Russ has more titles in college and the pro's.
Statistically nobody was greater than Wilt Chamberlin but if we measure by championships he does not add up. If we measure by statistical differential he was off the charts the most dominant player ever. He averaged 50 pts in a season and 25.7 Rebounds!
He didn't hit the NBA until age 23. In his championship season with the 76ers he averaged 24 rebs, 24 pts, and 8.6 assists!!!!! Thats nuts!!!!
He played on some bad teams and in his first few years he was trying to really pile up stats. Dealing with racism and a lot of hate as well.
We can go around and around about who was who and measure by the team around him as well. Few greats win without help. This year the weak eastern conference made is easier to advance to the finals but this GSW team won 67 games in the regular season. If Cavs win this series Lebron gets elevated in stature. He is this generations best player and deserves to be on Mt Rushmore with Jordan.
While LeBron is having an all world series, let's not forget his opponents when comparing him to the greats..In sports, it's your opponents that make you the greatest..Who are the great players or teams he had to defeat..LeBron most frequent playoff opponent since his arrival in the NBA has been Rasheed Wallace..It's not his fault but think about that for a moment...
holfresh wrote:While LeBron is having an all world series, let's not forget his opponents when comparing him to the greats..In sports, it's your opponents that make you the greatest..Who are the great players or teams he had to defeat..LeBron most frequent playoff opponent since his arrival in the NBA has been Rasheed Wallace..It's not his fault but think about that for a moment...
Dont forget Pierce, KG and Allen as well...Also beat Durant in the finals, and the great Duncan. Unfortunately, Lebron can't choose which era to play in. You compete against who is in front of you.
holfresh wrote:While LeBron is having an all world series, let's not forget his opponents when comparing him to the greats..In sports, it's your opponents that make you the greatest..Who are the great players or teams he had to defeat..LeBron most frequent playoff opponent since his arrival in the NBA has been Rasheed Wallace..It's not his fault but think about that for a moment...
Lebron played Duncan in the Finals three times. '07, '13, '14.
crzymdups wrote:holfresh wrote:While LeBron is having an all world series, let's not forget his opponents when comparing him to the greats..In sports, it's your opponents that make you the greatest..Who are the great players or teams he had to defeat..LeBron most frequent playoff opponent since his arrival in the NBA has been Rasheed Wallace..It's not his fault but think about that for a moment...
Lebron played Duncan in the Finals three times. '07, '13, '14.
He lost 2 of 3 times to Duncan which is my point...
The Chasm between fodder and meaningful conversation around here is measured in equally large units. Great thread
What Melo can do is score big in tough situations--lets be honest he can make shots and thats still a huge skill whether people understand it or not.
holfresh wrote:While LeBron is having an all world series, let's not forget his opponents when comparing him to the greats..In sports, it's your opponents that make you the greatest..Who are the great players or teams he had to defeat..LeBron most frequent playoff opponent since his arrival in the NBA has been Rasheed Wallace..It's not his fault but think about that for a moment...
I agree when teams can be measured, but Lebron as a single entity is still very very special. 5 straight finals appearances? No, he is not Jordan but at the same time while we can consider who the opponent is we also have to look and say his teams are pretty weak. Wade was a hell of a side kick but still had to be carried at times an Bosh is an all star, but after that the Heat were very thin.
Worthy of their two three peats lead by the GOAT The bulls were very very deep!
Was the Bulls in prime better than Showtime in Prime? We can debate that for years.
We live in the age of a hard cap and parity more so than ever. Fewer great teams and when they are the window will be smaller for them to achieve. Bulls were able to keep their team together and pay Jordan $30 million a year 20 YEARS AGO!!!!
Different time, different team, different Era.
On mans trash went to the finals with the best player of this generation.
Uptown wrote:holfresh wrote:While LeBron is having an all world series, let's not forget his opponents when comparing him to the greats..In sports, it's your opponents that make you the greatest..Who are the great players or teams he had to defeat..LeBron most frequent playoff opponent since his arrival in the NBA has been Rasheed Wallace..It's not his fault but think about that for a moment...
Dont forget Pierce, KG and Allen as well...Also beat Durant in the finals, and the great Duncan. Unfortunately, Lebron can't choose which era to play in. You compete against who is in front of you.
I was more trying to highlight the frequency of opponent..Wallace was his most frequent playoff opponent...
fishmike wrote:The Chasm between fodder and meaningful conversation around here is measured in equally large units. Great thread
Seriously....What the hell is the point of this thread?!?! That LeBron is better than Melo? No Sh!t!
Nalod wrote:holfresh wrote:While LeBron is having an all world series, let's not forget his opponents when comparing him to the greats..In sports, it's your opponents that make you the greatest..Who are the great players or teams he had to defeat..LeBron most frequent playoff opponent since his arrival in the NBA has been Rasheed Wallace..It's not his fault but think about that for a moment...
I agree when teams can be measured, but Lebron as a single entity is still very very special. 5 straight finals appearances? No, he is not Jordan but at the same time while we can consider who the opponent is we also have to look and say his teams are pretty weak. Wade was a hell of a side kick but still had to be carried at times an Bosh is an all star, but after that the Heat were very thin.
Worthy of their two three peats lead by the GOAT The bulls were very very deep!
Was the Bulls in prime better than Showtime in Prime? We can debate that for years.
We live in the age of a hard cap and parity more so than ever. Fewer great teams and when they are the window will be smaller for them to achieve. Bulls were able to keep their team together and pay Jordan $30 million a year 20 YEARS AGO!!!!
Different time, different team, different Era.
On mans trash went to the finals with the best player of this generation.
Indeed, I agree..He is a very special player...It's easy to take for granted the numbers he is putting up...
Uptown wrote:fishmike wrote:The Chasm between fodder and meaningful conversation around here is measured in equally large units. Great thread
Seriously....What the hell is the point of this thread?!?! That LeBron is better than Melo? No Sh!t!
absolutely, however, what melo can take out of watching him is that even if you have a shyt team around you, you can still pass the ball to the crappy players and get assists and you should not think that you are forced to just shoot a billion crappy shots.
how often have you heard the excuse "who should he pass the ball to?"
answer ... your shytty teammates.
I think whats being missed is how good a defensive team Cleveland is...Love going down pushed Tristan Thompson into the starting lineup...Shump and LeBron are great defenders..Thompson is a very good defender...Moz, Kyre, and JR are good defenders...Cleveland shut down ATL, they down Curry and Green last night..MOZ, Shump and JR acquisition changed how Cleveland played...This is a defensive team but I think it's lost in LeBron's exploits...
BRIGGS wrote:What Melo can do is score big in tough situations--lets be honest he can make shots and thats still a huge skill whether people understand it or not.
What JR can do is ......
What Crawford can do is......
What Westbrook can do is......
There are many players in the NBA that can score points. But how many of those players can elevate their team? Vs deflating their team?
I've played a lot of basketball, and this can be seen at all levels. There are guys like Melo who score almost every point.....Then on the last play, he decides to pays because he has 3 people on him.....Someone misses a wide open shot, and Melo goes crazy. How can you miss that open shot, when I'm making tough shots all game over two people.
VS
There are scorers (Lebron) that also know how to give you the ball in your sweet spot, instead of passing as a last option, because thats their only option.
BASKETBALL 101
mreinman wrote:Uptown wrote:fishmike wrote:The Chasm between fodder and meaningful conversation around here is measured in equally large units. Great thread
Seriously....What the hell is the point of this thread?!?! That LeBron is better than Melo? No Sh!t!
absolutely, however, what melo can take out of watching him is that even if you have a shyt team around you, you can still pass the ball to the crappy players and get assists and you should not think that you are forced to just shoot a billion crappy shots.
how often have you heard the excuse "who should he pass the ball to?"
answer ... your shytty teammates.
Melo isn't the point guard..LeBron handles 98% of Cleveland's possessions while he is on the court..So that might have a little effect on your assist numbers..He touches the ball every time up court...Do you want to give Melo that responsibility??..LeBron is taking a lot of crappy shots too...How many off balanced, one leg, fade away shots, did you see last night...LeBron is averaging 37 shot attempts...But you know my philosophy, you do what you have to do to win...
holfresh wrote:mreinman wrote:Uptown wrote:fishmike wrote:The Chasm between fodder and meaningful conversation around here is measured in equally large units. Great thread
Seriously....What the hell is the point of this thread?!?! That LeBron is better than Melo? No Sh!t!
absolutely, however, what melo can take out of watching him is that even if you have a shyt team around you, you can still pass the ball to the crappy players and get assists and you should not think that you are forced to just shoot a billion crappy shots.
how often have you heard the excuse "who should he pass the ball to?"
answer ... your shytty teammates.
Melo isn't the point guard..LeBron handles 98% of Cleveland's possessions while he is on the court..So that might have a little effect on your assist numbers..He touches the ball every time up court...Do you want to give Melo that responsibility??..LeBron is taking a lot of crappy shots too...How many off balanced, one leg, fade away shots, did you see last night...LeBron is averaging 37 shot attempts...But you know my philosophy, you do what you have to do to win...
yes ... lebron is forcing bad shots. Some of them are needed and some of them are plain dumb.
I can understand that melo needs to force at times but everytime?
his usage rate is high enough that he can/should at least triple his assist numbers in the playoffs.
He fights his azz off for boards so I have no complaints there.
enough excuses as to why he does not pass. He does not pass because he is very selfish and is too in love with his own shot
blkexec wrote:BRIGGS wrote:What Melo can do is score big in tough situations--lets be honest he can make shots and thats still a huge skill whether people understand it or not.
What JR can do is ......
What Crawford can do is......
What Westbrook can do is......
There are many players in the NBA that can score points. But how many of those players can elevate their team? Vs deflating their team?
I've played a lot of basketball, and this can be seen at all levels. There are guys like Melo who score almost every point.....Then on the last play, he decides to pays because he has 3 people on him.....Someone misses a wide open shot, and Melo goes crazy. How can you miss that open shot, when I'm making tough shots all game over two people.
VS
There are scorers (Lebron) that also know how to give you the ball in your sweet spot, instead of passing as a last option, because thats their only option.
BASKETBALL 101
LeBron's role and Melo's role are completely different..I'm a little embarrassed to have to explain it to guys who talk ball all year round...Melo is not there to initiate offense, LeBron is...Melo is often the guy who gets the ball when the clock is running out and all else fails..So I'm not sure how Melo should be hitting guys in their sweet spots..
